sunnyIce
Semi-Pro
watched all of it, but not actively if you know what I mean. why? because there were no tactical changes in the match. AT ALL!!! just could get my work done, and come in to see a winner or an error. And were'nt all them kinda the same?
nope. the only one really constructing points and playing to win it most of the time was nole. rafa was pretty happy hustling the ball and making nole go for it. which he continued to do to his credit. nole just came into this match well prepared and understood what he had to do to win the match. and that is how he differs from Fed (who does not).
agreed. it was more abt athleticism but agreed, they were stil swinging a tennis racquet the whole time. which is still pretty hard to do.
She was going to call the doctor if it lasted more than 4 hours.
namelessone
Legend
Nadal made all the tactical adjustments he needed to stay with Djokovic and still lost.
He used the backhand slice down the line to the two handed to do a pseudo-Federer tactic and stop Djokovic from jumping on a likely short topspin ball, went down the line and inside-out with his forehand to open up the court, drove his backhand flat and used body serves to handcuff Djokovic.
He used the backhand slice down the line to the two handed to do a pseudo-Federer tactic and stop Djokovic from jumping on a likely short topspin ball, went down the line and inside-out with his forehand to open up the court, drove his backhand flat and used body serves to handcuff Djokovic.
Well done for somebody whose waistline and IQ are of the same number!!!!!
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
sorry to tell you it's not related to the level of play.
by that i mean- verity of shots, magical strokes, intuition etc.
on mental strength 'level of play' - yes Fed is a turd.
klementine
Hall of Fame
This made me smile.
I'm more of a drummer than a tennis player and I started watching/playing tennis when players like Agassi/Chang/Sampras were on the rise, so I did get to see some S&V, tactical tennis, whatever that means.
Nadal is a physical player, you're not going to see much in the way of strategy from him. Yet his style forces the opposition to submit to his game, otherwise you give him the opportunity to overpower you; and there's something to be said about that. Djoko devised a plan and stuck to it.
I'd like to use drummers as an analogy for this discussion. If I may.
Do I enjoy and marvel at the playing of drummers long ago? Yes. Drummers like Max Roach, Art Blakey and Buddy Rich. They were so musical and tonal in their playing. They had perfect technique and arranged such thoughtful music.
By this token however, I am not ready to omit the power-house drummers of today. Dave Weckl, Tomas Lang and some of the rock drummers, such as George Kollias, Derek Roddy, Virgil Donati and Mike Mangini. They are stronger, hit more powerfully and play at high speeds for longer measures.
I can appreciate both styles and unequivocally say that they are not 'destroying music' or the 'role of a drummer'. They are just different styles and need to be credited as such.
N
nikdom
Guest
Yes, yes, its very sad. Now that's all in the past. This is the Novak era where neither Nadal's boring game nor his neanderthal ways are of any use.
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THESEXPISTOL
Hall of Fame
Seriously guys, i do love tennis... A lot! But i can't stand Djokovic vs Nadal finals. I'm sorry, they're just too boring.
SteveI
Legend
Not in the US...
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Good call, the level of tennis these days is just far and above what it was 5 years ago.
SteveI
Legend
SteveI
Legend
Yes.. like watching a clay court match. The surface is way too slow and the court is way too big. They can run back 40 feet and to the side about 30 to get any ball.
above bored
Semi-Pro
No tennis was not taken to another level today. The tennis was not that great, but the grinding and will power were.
Neither of these players were hitting serves, forehands, backhands or volleys better than the likes of a Federer at his best, for example, or can for that matter. What they do do better than anyone else is retrieve and counter-punch. Credit to Djokovic for being a bit more aggressive, but the defensive error waiting of Nadal can never be considered great tennis.
There was very little great shot making out there, just steady ballstriking, for the most part, with barely any ingenuity or imagination. If anyone thinks this is taking tennis to another level they clearly cannot have been following the sport very long.
Neither of these players were hitting serves, forehands, backhands or volleys better than the likes of a Federer at his best, for example, or can for that matter. What they do do better than anyone else is retrieve and counter-punch. Credit to Djokovic for being a bit more aggressive, but the defensive error waiting of Nadal can never be considered great tennis.
There was very little great shot making out there, just steady ballstriking, for the most part, with barely any ingenuity or imagination. If anyone thinks this is taking tennis to another level they clearly cannot have been following the sport very long.
reversef
Hall of Fame
Wow, poor Federer! A GOAT who has problems with such a player can't be the GOAT. He needs half of a brain first.
Do you realize that each time you talk this way about Nadal as a tennis player, you make fun of Federer even more?
above bored
Semi-Pro
He did'nt say it was'nt effective, he said it was unsophisticated.
theroguedog
New User
above bored
Semi-Pro
Firstly, their average grounstroke speed was significantly less than you would find amonsgt the likes of Berdych, Del Potro or Federer. Secondly, only their winner attempts would have exceeded 75 mph, their rally balls were more towards the 50s and 60s. I thought they were playing damn slow.
Contrast their match with the match between Federer and Del Potro and you will see the difference. There was much more pace and structure behind the points in that match than there was in this one.
mike84
Professional
the average groundstroke according to ESPN graphic
in first set 72 mph Nadal
in fifth set 75 mph Nadal
they didn't show any speed for Djokovic
but above poster is correct
winners were in high 90's and even low 100
but their rallies were very slow especially noticeable with that low camera angle
in first set 72 mph Nadal
in fifth set 75 mph Nadal
they didn't show any speed for Djokovic
but above poster is correct
winners were in high 90's and even low 100
but their rallies were very slow especially noticeable with that low camera angle
The level of physicality has increased in tennis, there is no question of that.
The variety of shots has dropped as the tactics required to be successful has also dropped.
Today was a great match from the standpoint of conditioning and willpower. LOTS of fight out there in the final.
With the current surfaces, if you can play bashing defense on one, you can do it on any other.
I personally prefer the variety of shotmaking you don't see anymore.
The variety of shots has dropped as the tactics required to be successful has also dropped.
Today was a great match from the standpoint of conditioning and willpower. LOTS of fight out there in the final.
With the current surfaces, if you can play bashing defense on one, you can do it on any other.
I personally prefer the variety of shotmaking you don't see anymore.
Good enough to almost beat Djokovic ?
first change the challenge system. The line calling seemed like too big an issue in this tournament.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Federer proved in his loss to Nadal that tactical and precise shot-making cannot beat true grit and willpower. What more proof do you need? Shot-makers are nullified. It's a different game now.
More like the other way around. It's been Djokovic who has raised his game to surpass Federer/Nadal.
Just like Federer is better than the best Sampras? It's hard to say since Federer is in his decline and the Djokovic is just reaching his peak.
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ViscaB
Hall of Fame
Nadal and Federer are not on the same level anymore.
There is:
1) Djokovic
2) Nadal
3) Fed
4)Rest of the field.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Clearly, it was one point away from being a 3 set beat down that would have been one of the worst finals in the history of the modern era.
Clearly, it was one point away from being a 3 set beat down that would have been one of the worst finals in the history of the modern era.
Coulda woulda shoulda.
Or one point from 40-15, 4-2 in fifth.Clearly, it was one point away from being a 3 set beat down that would have been one of the worst finals in the history of the modern era.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Yep, the point is perception can be drastically swayed by one point either way.
So says the rankings.
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Wilander Fan
Hall of Fame
Serve speed and ground stroke speed are all but meaningless now. They measure these before the ball hits the ground but the grainy surface takes much of the speed off the ball. In reality, the surface is probably slower than clay.
Add the lighter rackets and the grabby poly strings and its much much easier to hit the ball now. When the rackets were less forgiving and the hard courts surfaced with slick paint, you simply could not play well without proper technique. Now, you can hit with all wrist off your back foot and hit winners so the game has become all about speed and endurance.
Add the lighter rackets and the grabby poly strings and its much much easier to hit the ball now. When the rackets were less forgiving and the hard courts surfaced with slick paint, you simply could not play well without proper technique. Now, you can hit with all wrist off your back foot and hit winners so the game has become all about speed and endurance.
reversef
Hall of Fame
And a GOAT wouldn't find the solution to that "unsophisticated" game. Poor GOAT! Nadal's game is much more "sophisticated" than what some of you want to see. Compare to the likes of Berdych or Söderling for example. No, he doesn't have the range of Federer's shots if that's what you mean. But he's not the only one, I think.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
You mean since Nadal can't beat Joker, while Fred did in one slam and had match-points in 2 USO's ?
yemenmocha
Professional
Thought it was a horrible, boring match. It's pathetic that this is what the slow courts & technology has brought tennis to today. Only power & athleticism, and extreme spin. sigh...
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I agree 100% this was tennis taken to a new level. But the grouchy old men here do not like it, they are still living in the past.
helloworld
Hall of Fame
Tennis was taken to a new SLOW level today. Hail to snail tennis!!!
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