The best poly as a cross for gut

[dadozen]

Ok guys, I'm almost decided that I'll start using the gut/poly combo. Tried it and loved it, I just need to check its durability to confirm if it's gonna be worthy.

So, I thought about starting a thread just to get your opinions: what's the best poly to be used as a cross for gut?

Do you prefer a smooth, soft poly, so you still get the great feel from gut?
Or, do you prefer a stiff, low powered poly to tame down the power?
Maybe you prefer one poly that gives you a low COF( coefficient of friction ), so the gut can move freely?
Or a poly that stays slick for the whole time - as Travlerajm stated?

Please, post your choices and your reasons.

I'm currently using WeissCannon Scorpion because it was the poly I was mainly using, and it gives me nice feel and good control. I'm wondering which ones are good options to try.

My next order includes:

WeissCannon Silverstring
Mantis Power Poly
Lux Alu Power

 

[JoelDali]

What gauge?

17
Alu Flouro + VS Team
Incredible combo for feel and power in a 16x19 setup.

16
Wilson's Champion's Choice: Lux Rough + VS 16
Simply the best.

 

[dadozen]

Joel, any gauge, I jsut want to hear your choices.

Thanks for yours, but do you use gut or poly in the mains? The way you wrote, it seems that you use poly in the mains.

Do you feel some difference using AluP and AluP Rough? If you do use gut/poly - with Alu Rough in the crosses, do you play until it breaks? I'm interested to know the durability of this setup. I'm afraid Alu loses tension too quickly, making the whole stringjob useless.

 

[Lambsscroll]

NG/poly plays great. In-fact I played my best tennis with that combo. The problem with that combo is the quick resilience loss with the poly. I would get 4 hours of awesome playability and then the string bed would feel lousy. Look for a stiff synthetic string which will have a greater amount of resiliency.

 

[JoelDali]

Joel, any gauge, I jsut want to hear your choices.

Thanks for yours, but do you use gut or poly in the mains? The way you wrote, it seems that you use poly in the mains.

Do you feel some difference using AluP and AluP Rough? If you do use gut/poly - with Alu Rough in the crosses, do you play until it breaks? I'm interested to know the durability of this setup. I'm afraid Alu loses tension too quickly, making the whole stringjob useless.

Gut in mains for me.

In the 88 I used 17

In the BLX90 I'm using 16.

I play until they're about to pop.

The last CC setup in the 90 lasted me like 12 hours which was truly shocking. Good batch I guess.

I don't feel the Lux dies so quick, I think thats a myth. And honestly, the majority of the feedback and feel in a G/P hybrid is from the gut.

The idea that Lux rough goes dead in 2 hours is a strupid myth perpetauted by madness and lack of contact with females.

 

[kiteboard]

It goes long on me in 1/2hr. Not dead, lose tens.

 

[dadozen]

NG/poly plays great. In-fact I played my best tennis with that combo. The problem with that combo is the quick resilience loss with the poly. I would get 4 hours of awesome playability and then the string bed would feel lousy. Look for a stiff synthetic string which will have a greater amount of resiliency.

Lamb, the problem is I really liked gut/poly because of the ease of spin generation. I don't think gut/syn gut will give me something similar

Gut in mains for me.

In the 88 I used 17

In the BLX90 I'm using 16.

I play until they're about to pop.

The last CC setup in the 90 lasted me like 12 hours which was truly shocking. Good batch I guess.

I don't feel the Lux dies so quick, I think thats a myth. And honestly, the majority of the feedback and feel in a G/P hybrid is from the gut.

The idea that Lux rough goes dead in 2 hours is a strupid myth perpetauted by madness and lack of contact with females.

Thanks for your input Joel! I'll try Lux once, let's see if I like it. If I do, I'll probably go broke

 

[JackB1]

FWIW, I thought Flouro felt very stiff as a cross.

I think the best way to go is round smooth poly's. They wont eat thru the gut so fast. Scorpion is a good choice as a base. I am about to try some PF Black Venom and some B5E as crosses with either multi mains or gut mains.

 

[jim e]

I use gut mains and crosses. There was a time where I was going between gut mains, and ALU power crosses, as that had good feel, and good control, but as I am more a flat ball hitter, the strings last a long time for me without breaking, as the alu would loose its characteristics before the gut would snap, so after a while I switched all my racquets to nat. gut, as that set up hits well until it breaks.I still keep one racquet available to string with different strings all the time to try out diffferent ones, I guess that will never end.

 

[dadozen]

FWIW, I thought Flouro felt very stiff as a cross.

I think the best way to go is round smooth poly's. They wont eat thru the gut so fast. Scorpion is a good choice as a base. I am about to try some PF Black Venom and some B5E as crosses with either multi mains or gut mains.

Jack, Scorpion has been working great so far. The only problem is the curiosity to test new strings

So far my list is as shown below:

Silverstring 1.25
Alu Power 1.25
Mantis Power Poly 1.25
Cyber Flash 1.25

I use gut mains and crosses. There was a time where I was going between gut mains, and ALU power crosses, as that had good feel, and good control, but as I am more a flat ball hitter, the strings last a long time for me without breaking, as the alu would loose its characteristics before the gut would snap, so after a while I switched all my racquets to nat. gut, as that set up hits well until it breaks.I still keep one racquet available to string with different strings all the time to try out diffferent ones, I guess that will never end.

I tried full gut but even stringing it @ 60lbs, it was too powerful for me. This way I couldn't take full swings, which gut/poly allows me to do.

 

[alidisperanza]

There are actually a few threads floating around regarding gut/poly combos.

Personally I like using a smooth, low power poly (SilverString) to complement the gut when using gut int he mains.. I feel that it's a good temper to the responsiveness of the mains and it maintains tension relatively well for the life of the string-bed.

Using VS, I would look more into textured/shaped strings since the coating and quality is better. I find that shaped/textured polys tend to rip through econogut a bit too quickly.


Flipping it around, I think that gut gives a nice splash of responsiveness as a cross. I enjoyed MSV Hex and PHT 17 quite a bit in the mains with gut on the crosses-- Unfortunately I tend to pop the gut too quickly.

Strings I'd love to try with poly/gut
Tourbite- Sounds like a blast in a bag.

16g Nat
17g Poly.

 

[dadozen]

Alidi, which is the difference using textured polys in the cross, instead of round polys? Isn't it better to choose for a smooth and slippery poly so the gut can move freely?

 

[DrpShot!]

Alidi, which is the difference using textured polys in the cross, instead of round polys? Isn't it better to choose for a smooth and slippery poly so the gut can move freely?

I think so. I like Big Hitter Silver as a cross, really tames the gut and lets it slide.

 

[levy1]

Timo mains klip legend gut crosses. Super spin, good power

 

[alidisperanza]

Alidi, which is the difference using textured polys in the cross, instead of round polys? Isn't it better to choose for a smooth and slippery poly so the gut can move freely?

Hmm, I tend to agree with you on the smooth poly theory but the reason I mentioned textured poly in the cross is because of Alu Rough-- I hate to be cliche but the stuff plays fantastically in this hybrid for the life of the Poly. (Unfortunately a set of Alu Rough costs me more than my gut!)

Also, when I first tried the Gut/poly combo with Tonic, I didn't like the extra pop coming off the racquet. I was a high ball, spinny player and had difficulty keeping balls from sailing. Textured strings/ shaped strings locked into the gut mains a bit more and muted that power a bit IMHO. In the end it all comes down to preference. Now I play with Silverstring in the crosses-- awesome stuff.

 

[dadozen]

Thanks again alidi.

I see you're using Tonic. Do you feel a great loss of playability going from VS Team to Vs Touch and Tonic+?

I'm thinking about getting VS Touch if the VS Team/poly combo isn't durable enough, but one might say that Touch doesn't come close to Team.

 

[alidisperanza]

Thanks again alidi.

I see you're using Tonic. Do you feel a great loss of playability going from VS Team to Vs Touch and Tonic+?

I'm thinking about getting VS Touch if the VS Team/poly combo isn't durable enough, but one might say that Touch doesn't come close to Team.

Hehe, I'm actually using Gaucho Gut and am currently playtesting Spider Silk. VS team is VS team is VS team-- there's no two (or three) ways about it. It's the best stuff on the market but I tend to avoid 17g gut and VS in general. Stuff was great back when It was 32.00/pack and I had memorized dad's credit card number :twisted: but now playing tennis in grad school is expensive enough.

Team to Touch you won't lose much-- VS still plays great either way. I'd stray towards the Team for the 16g.

Tonic is where you get the big jump. It's just not the same as VS, even when stringing. If you're set on Babolat, I'd choose VS for the mains/ poly crosses and Tonic for crosses/poly mains. Every now and again you'll get a set of VS label in Tonic packaging (seconds?).

Having said that, I find Gaucho to be perfectly playable in either of these hybrids and preferable in the crosses ( 18.00 cheaper than tonic!)

Edit: I forgot to mention-- you'll get very decent life out of putting gut on the mains-- much more tolerable than on the crosses

 

[parasailing]

I have tried VS Team with Prince Recoil based on what others suggest and it does not work for me. When the first are out of the bag, they are really smooth but after a few hours, they lose their coating and become rough so it doesn't have the same effect.

On to WC Silverstring as a cross for my next setup and will let you guys know how they work out.

 

[SFeigl]

I only just got a stringing machine a month ago and boy have I been doing a lot of testing. I've done a comprehensive Multifilament test and the X-One and NRG2 came out on top, with the surprise being Sensation which I also really liked.

As for this thread though, I'd used Champions Choice in the past in my BLX 90 racket and while it was very good, the durability was very poor in my opinion. So I thought that given I was stringing my rackets, I thought I'd try a few different things. I had my first hit out with a Poly/Gut hybrid tonight and wow - loved what I had put together. I used Klip Legend 16 with Luxilon BB Original Smooth, using string savers in the Federer pattern, as well as power pads for the gut (using a BLX Pro Open now). After hitting for 2 hours with it, the wear was minimal (MUCH less than X-One Biphase 17), and the power and control was very good - definitely better than Champions Choice IMHO.

I think the important thing was to get the tension gap right. NG likes to be strung at very high tensions, due to the elasticity. At the Aussie Open, Clijsters was stringing her full gut setup at 66lbs, which is at the top of the tension range for her Babolat Pure Drive, and Henin was around 62lbs - also near the top of her Wilson tension range. But.... Poly's like to operate at a lower tension.

Having consulted the threads here, and asking a bunch of questions, I ended up stringing my BLX Pro Open with the Gut in the mains at 63lbs, and the Luxilon BB in the crosses at 55lbs. 8lbs may seem a lot, but I think it kept the operating range of each string where they ought to be. The power was amazing, with very good control and feel too. I'm definitely a convert to a hybrid setup!

I'm going to use the leftover string to put in another BLX Pro Open racket that I have, to put the Poly in the mains, and the gut in the crosses, to see what it feels like. It seems to be a personal preference as to which way people like it - Andy Murray uses a Poly main with a VS cross and he seems to play alright. ;-)

 

[lefty10spro]

Prince Beast XP 17g is my cross with NG 16g in the mains. IMO this is one seriously nice co-poly that is worth the price.

 

[Lambsscroll]

using string savers in the Federer pattern, as well as power pads for the gut

Did anything standout using the Federer string saver pattern or the power pads?

 

[jturpin4]

Could I get a couple months out of a gut main/poly cross hybrid?

 

[dadozen]

Could I get a couple months out of a gut main/poly cross hybrid?

depends mostly on how hard you hit the ball, and also how flat.

I have played just a few sets and the gut already started to fray. Durability isn't the best aspect in this setup

 

[Lambsscroll]

Could I get a couple months out of a gut main/poly cross hybrid?

I feel you can if you use a smooth poly string. Gut with its coating coupled with a smooth poly works nicely because the strings slide. Thus less sawing. This also helps with spin. If your playing everyday for 2 months it might not last that long but if your playing 4 hours a week it should or come close.

 

[JT_2eighty]

Could I get a couple months out of a gut main/poly cross hybrid?

If you are looking to get a few months out of it, be sure to find a good "tension maintenance" poly. Weisscannon and Signum Pro seem to receive the most consistent reviews in this aspect of their poly strings.

Also, a thicker 16g poly cross will both hold tension longer than its thinner versions, and also not wear thru your gut mains as easily.

 

[SFeigl]

Did anything standout using the Federer string saver pattern or the power pads?

I couldn't say specifically, as I've not tried the same combination as yet without savers or pads. I just put them in as it "should" give them the best life.

In regards to jturpin4's question, I wanted to get the most life out of the gut as I could, as well as the longest life I could get out of a poly for a long lasting stringbed. It was for this reason that I went with the smooth Luxilon Original 16. The Luxilon Big Banger Original 16 when surveyed on stringforum.net was rated 2nd for Durability, 1st for Control (nice to have with the power of gut) and 2nd in Tension Stability. Combine that with it being a smooth untextured string, the longevity and playability of this string in a hybrid with gut is a pretty formidable option if you are looking for longevity.

Check out the results here - very interesting. http://www.stringforum.net/string2010.php

 

[levy1]

The Timo Mains Klip natty legend crosses was the best setup I used.

 

[dadozen]

Just received my power pads and string savers( Babolat elastrocross ). Will use them in my next stringjob, although I'm a little reticent about the string savers. I don't want it to change the awesome feel I'm currently getting.

 

[SFeigl]

Nice one. I used the Babolat Elastocross as well and they are great. I tried the poly in the main with the gut as the cross - not as much power or feel. For me, definitely gut in the main, with poly in the crosses.

 

[alidisperanza]

Sorry for the tangent but I really don't understand the craze with power pads on modern racquets If one really insists on using them, just cut up an old overgrip and roll it up, or, if it must be leather, an old leather grip

 

[JT_2eighty]

Just received my power pads and string savers( Babolat elastrocross ). Will use them in my next stringjob, although I'm a little reticent about the string savers. I don't want it to change the awesome feel I'm currently getting.

If you only use a couple string savers here and there at the intersections where heavy fraying begins, you won't alter the feel in any noticeable way.

Just don't install a huge patch of them before the strings start to wear, as that will mute the feel a bit.

 

[SFeigl]

Sorry for the tangent but I really don't understand the craze with power pads on modern racquets If one really insists on using them, just cut up an old overgrip and roll it up, or, if it must be leather, an old leather grip

I got 15 power pads for $10 delivered to Australia. I didn't have an old leather grip to cut up, so I don't think I was being silly in buying pre-cut dedicated power pads.

As with their use on modern rackets... anything I could do to keep the life in natural gut I'll do. Especially for just $2 per racket!

 

[alidisperanza]

Years ago power pads were useful because the contour of the wooden frame would place stress on the gut. Now-adays, racquet manufacturers purposely round out their throat grommets to alleviate such issues. From what I understand, they can absorb a bit of shock and perhaps mute the feel of the strings a bit. Who knows?

 

[JT_2eighty]

Well, another week into my gut/poly testing. Bear in mind, strung these at 52/48 & I like soft setups in my 56-flex 18x20s.


PTG 1.25/MB 1.16: Very comfy setup. Spin is effortless and power is ample. Touch and netplay are a blast. Tension seems to be holding well, although control is not quite where it was in the beginning. Still, control via spin is manageable and easy (given you have time to setup your shots). Those not wanting a "power" setup with gut/poly may not like this as it settles in. Best strokes for me with this stick are kick serve, 1hbh slice, volleys; and anything requiring heavy spin.

PTG 1.25/BHB 1.20: Not quite as comfy, spinnable or powerful; however, the directional control is amazing. After the PTG/MB honeymoon period, going back to PTG/BHB was a major control boost. Sure, the power & spin were not quite as easy, but it didn't matter because placement was on a dime. Flat shots were a bit easier to lock-in on as well. Best strokes are DTL groundies, first serves, and overall directional control.

TLDR: while it's a close call overall, there are definite advantages to each cross. Tension is holding okay for both, and each stick has about 5-6 hours of match play, the intial fresh feel is gone on both, but still they are quite playable. There is no doubt this setup is greatest when fresh, but really what string can't you say this about? The point is, even a few weeks after stringing and a few matches played on each, I can still play my game and not be distracted about tension loss, discomfort, etc.

Control goes to BHB; Comfort to MB. Scorpion and Energy up next.

 

[J_aces]

^^ Whats TLDR mean

 

[JT_2eighty]

^^ Whats TLDR mean

"too long didn't read" (for those who are just skimming, kind of the "bottom line", if you will)

 

[neesun]

I currently use a Babolat Pure Storm Ltd and recently had the following hybrid put in:

Babolat VS Touch 16 in the main @55
Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 17 in the cross @52

This is the first time I've used natural gut and honestly it's been the best string I've used. I'm playing on grass this season and the racquet with this hybrid is very solid with every shot I play.

Despite the price I won't hesitate to buy the VS Gut again, it's worth the money in my opinion.

 

[dadozen]

If you only use a couple string savers here and there at the intersections where heavy fraying begins, you won't alter the feel in any noticeable way.

Just don't install a huge patch of them before the strings start to wear, as that will mute the feel a bit.

JT, thanks for the suggestion. This sounds great.

My first VS/Scorpion stringjob broke today, after less than 4 serious sets( against friends at my level ) and maybe 2 or 3 against GF( which doesn't really stress the stringjob )

I'll start using the string savers as you say, since I need to do something to extend the life, otherwise I'll go bankrupt, and I don't want them to dramatically change the great feel I get from gut.

Before reading your post, I had installed 40 string savers in my last strung racquet, and just by tapping it ay my hand I could feel that it was muted. Removed all of them and I'll wait them start to wear before installing them again.

By the way, the stringjob felt and performed great until breakage. Which doesn't happen with full co-poly.

If I don't get enough lifetime from the stringjob by doing this, I'll consider going to VS Touch.

 

[JackB1]

Tried some Head Nat Gut / Polyfibre Black Venom today and it played and felt great. Let's see how it lasts.

 

[rofl_copter3]

Pacific xforce poly crosses/pacific tough gut string tough gut only a couple pounds tighter than the poly as it is tight for a gut

 

[1st Seed]

Let me chime in here,been my rig for the last 3 yrs.PK Redondo Mid low tension.Hard,flat hitter:

I've pondered myself the playability between the Vs,Tonic,Wilson.Personaly for my recreational hitting Tonic will suffice.Not a real huge difference,guage varies.Still for the durability Gut is it.
I've thrown almost ever brand of poly for X's and I still keep coming back to Yonex Poly Tour 125.
Dozen you'll love the Alu power in there for the first 2 weeks,Deadly pop and bite but,The Elbow will be feeling the Titanium fibres for sure.I loved it but the Elbow said no way.
Careful with the Luxo's.
Dabbled with all kinds of set-ups,End of the day No string can do what The Gut can.Once you've tested a rig with gut that suits your game good luck going back to anything else.Playability durability=Priceless
Good luck with the testing.

 

[dadozen]

1st, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I guess I'm reaching the same conclusion as you did: nothing plays like gut. The problem is the price, I still need to find ways to improve the durability. String savers are necessary, of course, but I don't want to use like 30-50 of them in just one racquet.

I'm actually following JT's tips, by installing string savers only when heavy fraying begins. Let's see if that helps me, I'm planning on getting some VS Touch sets as well.

 

[1st Seed]

Dozen have you seen these.
wondering how Black gut plays?anybody test it yet.
http://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.co...STBABOLAT.html

Dozen that Scorpion might be sawing right threw the gut.For the little additional time you get 16g poly's last 2 weeks longer or so.Question?When your strings are poppin whats snappin first?Gut or POLY?Also have you tried thr 15L Gut.Real durable good for gut crossesIMO.

 

[dadozen]

1st, so are you saying that a thicker poly in crosses will give me a better durability? because I find Scorpion to be pretty smooth already. Not sure what you meant, sorry.

Well, the webstore I usually buy from already has VS Black, but I'm still not sure if it plays exactly as the natural. This is my biggest fear.

Also, I gave up on the idea of testing Lux strings. I'm already spending a lot on gut, don't see a point to spend even more with Lux strings. Thanks for the tip though!

EDIT: Btw, forgot to answer your question, gut breaks first

 

[JackB1]

I have been playing a gut/copoly hybrid for a little bit now and I have to say it doesn't feel THAT MUCH different from a multi/copoly hybrid. I think the main benefit I am seeing with gut is the added spin and the way my elbow feels fresh after playing.

 

[dadozen]

Really? When I played with multi/poly, it felt very weird and I couldn't play decently.

Gut/poly, IMO, is way better...

 

[JT_2eighty]

I have been playing a gut/copoly hybrid for a little bit now and I have to say it doesn't feel THAT MUCH different from a multi/copoly hybrid. I think the main benefit I am seeing with gut is the added spin and the way my elbow feels fresh after playing.

Those reasons alone are good enough in my book! I'll pay more on strings because I only have 1 elbow!

The touch you get around net is also untouchable, IMO.

 

[1st Seed]

Dozen:Next order of WC ScorpionBump up the guage to at least the 16L 128mm.The thinner guage plays great I know,But costly set-ups.when they pop premature.Sigh.....not tennis related lol

Your Dunlop's are the 16x19,Some sticks are real string eaters KPS 88,K95's.Could also play a factor.Open patterns chew strings.With my legendary Redondo's Im gettin months before poppage.Dense pattern helps.16L plays sweet as a cross.

Little off topic:You being a Dunlop guy thought I'dd share some recent findings.
buddy of mine showed up to hit with a New Bio Dunlop 100 with a full bed of the New multi Dunlop SILK.Very nice stick to swing had it for 20 min's only but damn, nice players stick.That Silk is smooth and plays Rubbery at first but breaks in Nice and crisp ala X1 biphase.Still costly Multi.

I liked Tourna Big Hitler blue Made in germany.Good& affordable.
Try RPM as a cross.ASofter Mushy feeling polyIMO.

 

[dadozen]

Those reasons alone are good enough in my book! I'll pay more on strings because I only have 1 elbow!

The touch you get around net is also untouchable, IMO.

The feel gut gives in touch shots is unbeatable. Volleys, slices and drop shots are much easier to perform.

Dozen:Next order of WC ScorpionBump up the guage to at least the 16L 128mm.The thinner guage plays great I know,But costly set-ups.when they pop premature.Sigh.....not tennis related lol

Your Dunlop's are the 16x19,Some sticks are real string eaters KPS 88,K95's.Could also play a factor.Open patterns chew strings.With my legendary Redondo's Im gettin months before poppage.Dense pattern helps.16L plays sweet as a cross.

Little off topic:You being a Dunlop guy thought I'dd share some recent findings.
buddy of mine showed up to hit with a New Bio Dunlop 100 with a full bed of the New multi Dunlop SILK.Very nice stick to swing had it for 20 min's only but damn, nice players stick.That Silk is smooth and plays Rubbery at first but breaks in Nice and crisp ala X1 biphase.Still costly Multi.

I liked Tourna Big Hitler blue Made in germany.Good& affordable.
Try RPM as a cross.ASofter Mushy feeling polyIMO.

1st, I'll definitely try Scorpion 1.28 then. Problem is I have one untouched reel of 1.22................ But do you think gut would last longer with a thicker cross then? I thought that a thicker cross would saw the gut on mains quickier.

Thanks for the BM100 inputs, was it in stock form?

 

[JT_2eighty]

Thicker cross doesn't "dig into" the mains as much.

In my two sticks, one with BHB 1.25 cross and other with MB 1.16 cross, you can definitely see the MB slicing thru the gut more than the BHB. Both are non-textured, soft & smooth polys. Tension hold is a nice side benefit to thicker poly, IME.