"the Great Age Shift" new perspective

[NeutralFan]

I don't know why it's almost impossible for some posters here to accept that players are performing at elite level in their mid-30s. Modric was immense at the age of 37 , he ate up Brazilian midfield alive in their qf meeting , Pepe was immense for Portugal at the age of 38 , Messi won the Golden ball award at the age of 35. ( Had most chances created ,most assist, most break down play , key passes , second most goals). Benzema , Lewandowski all have been best player of the year in their 30s. Why hard it's to accept the fact that modern medicine has enhanced Player's career and they can perform at top in their 30? Keeping propaganda aside it's high time we accept "GAS" theory propounded by @UnderratedSlam . @The_Order your take

 

[robthai]

There were plenty of young players in both Argentina and French teams. There is no excuses for these pathetic youngsters in tennis. How old is Mbappe? He now has 4 goals in world cup finals all before the age of 24 and already has a case of being the best in the world right now. Cannot say the same for any of these pathetic next gen players aside from Alcaraz.

 

[mahatma]

I don't know why it's almost impossible for some posters here to accept that players are performing at elite level in their mid-30s. Modric was immense at the age of 37 , he ate up Brazilian midfield alive in their qf meeting , Pepe was immense for Portugal at the age of 38 , Messi won the Golden ball award at the age of 35. ( Had most chances created ,most assist, most break down play , key passes , second most goals). Benzema , Lewandowski all have been best player of the year in their 30s. Why hard it's to accept the fact that modern medicine has enhanced Player's career and they can perform at top in their 30? Keeping propaganda aside it's high time we accept "GAS" theory propounded by @UnderratedSlam .

Son, forgetting Di Maria in your analysis from wc football is a sin

 

[NeutralFan]

Son, forgetting Di Maria in your analysis from wc football is a sin

My grandson! i was talking about whole tournament and consistent performer year in year out. Try watching football regularly instead of stupid stick game with ball. Di Maria was steller in final but he has been on and off since last 3 years.

 

[NeutralFan]

There were plenty of young players in both Argentina and French teams. There is no excuses for these pathetic youngsters in tennis. How old is Mbappe? He now has 4 goals in world cup finals all before the age of 24 and already has a case of being the best in the world right now. Cannot say the same for any of these pathetic next gen players aside from Alcaraz.

Best players in the last 5 years have been all over 30s ( Messi, Lewandowski, Benzema, Modric ) your theory is that young player should simply beat older elite player because they are old is nonsense. yes, young players have been good even in tennis but like in football they have been upstaged by the older players. why it's hard for you to accept that retirement age has increased in all sports and players are performing close to their best in their 30s?? This is no longer 90s or early 2000s.

 

[Tennfan123]

This is now football warehouse?

 

[mahatma]

My grandson! i was talking about whole tournament and consistent performer year in year out. Try watching football regularly instead of stupid stick game with ball. Di Maria was steller in final but he has been on and off since last 3 years.

Ya Pepe was doing wonders in the meanwhile grandest son. Lol.

 

[helterskelter]

The invincible goat and boat of football is a year to the month younger than the invincible goat and boat of tennis and both their cults are going strong into their late 30s. Mere human beings are irrelevant in contrast to these deities.

 

[pj80]

Best players in the last 5 years have been all over 30s ( Messi, Lewandowski, Benzema, Modric ) your theory is that young player should simply beat older elite player because they are old is nonsense. yes, young players have been good even in tennis but like in football they have been upstaged by the older players. why it's hard for you to accept that retirement age has increased in all sports and players are performing close to their best in their 30s?? This is no longer 90s or early 2000s.

there is not much physical difference between 25 and 30-35

 

[Fairhit]

I don't know why it's almost impossible for some posters here to accept that players are performing at elite level in their mid-30s. Modric was immense at the age of 37 , he ate up Brazilian midfield alive in their qf meeting , Pepe was immense for Portugal at the age of 38 , Messi won the Golden ball award at the age of 35. ( Had most chances created ,most assist, most break down play , key passes , second most goals). Benzema , Lewandowski all have been best player of the year in their 30s. Why hard it's to accept the fact that modern medicine has enhanced Player's career and they can perform at top in their 30? Keeping propaganda aside it's high time we accept "GAS" theory propounded by @UnderratedSlam . @The_Order your take

I subscribe to this theory.

Modern medicine, training techniques, healthy eating and many more habits have helped modern athletes to stay close to peak performance form in their mid 30s, it is not enough to compare to younger players but the mix of experience and a capable body is surpassing young, faster and stronger players that are better equipped athletically but lack experience.

The opposite would be to have a player in the early 20s that somehow achieves the maturity only years of experience can get.

 

[NatF]

Team =/= Sport individual sport.

For sure athletes are maintaining a high level into their 30's better than before, all the Big 3 were still better in their 20's though - plenty of players from their generations saw terminal decline in early 30's as well.

 

[NeutralFan]

The invincible goat and boat of football is a year to the month younger than the invincible goat and boat of tennis and both their cults are going strong into their late 30s. Mere human beings are irrelevant in contrast to these deities.

You're in wrong thread son, it's not a GOAT thread ,neither i subscribe to nonsense GOAT term. It's sheer disrespect to past greats from different era.

 

[NeutralFan]

there is not much physical difference between 25 and 30-35

Speedwise? Yes! endurance wise? Not much , Son!

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

This should really be relative to their own performances when they were younger, as opposed to against the field, and even then this is a team sport with a fair bit of transience, as well as synergies which should reward experience overtly. Messi is so good that a somewhat declined version is still going to be world class, plus he can use his insane precision and quick-fire tactics to make plays within the team without necessarily getting 'exposed' (ROFLMAO) physically. I'd have thought tennis would be more ruthless in that regard.

 

[helterskelter]

This should really be relative to their own performances when they were younger, as opposed to against the field, and even then this is a team sport with a fair bit of transience, as well as synergies which should reward experience overtly. Messi is so good that a somewhat declined version is still going to be world class, plus he can use his insane precision and quick-fire tactics to make plays within the team without necessarily getting 'exposed' (ROFLMAO) physically. I'd have thought tennis would be more ruthless in that regard.

One of the big differences between football and tennis is that because the former is a team sport, there are positions - including very important ones - for players who don't run much. Messi now plays as an attacking midfield playmaker and so he doesn't run as much as before. In tennis, there are no such transitions available.

@NeutralFan Okay, on a serious note, I love Modric, but he clearly wasn't as good in this World Cup (at 37) as in the last (when he was already almost 33). I do agree that 32/33 is a perfectly "prime" age for many footballers, but 37 is still pushing it a little. Competitive, yes, but not as good as before.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

One of the big differences between football and tennis is that because the former is a team sport, there are positions - including very important ones - for players who don't run much. Messi now plays as an attacking midfield playmaker and so he doesn't run as much as before. In tennis, there are no such transitions available.

@NeutralFan Okay, on a serious note, I love Modric, but he clearly wasn't as good in this World Cup (at 37) as in the last (when he was already almost 33). I do agree that 32/33 is a perfectly "prime" age for many footballers, but 37 is still pushing it a little. Competitive, yes, but not as good as before.

Sums it up nicely.

 

[NeutralFan]

One of the big differences between football and tennis is that because the former is a team sport, there are positions - including very important ones - for players who don't run much. Messi now plays as an attacking midfield playmaker and so he doesn't run as much as before. In tennis, there are no such transitions available.

@NeutralFan Okay, on a serious note, I love Modric, but he clearly wasn't as good in this World Cup (at 37) as in the last (when he was already almost 33). I do agree that 32/33 is a perfectly "prime" age for many footballers, but 37 is still pushing it a little. Competitive, yes, but not as good as before.

I would like to think your assumption is football was like 100 or 200 m race where speed was everything. Also, Nowhere i claimed Modric was as good as last wc (33) i said he's still performing at elite level and Madrid's title winning CL run come back against city in last minute was due to his sublime pass by his toe. Even in this world cup he ate Brazilian midfield, their attack was nonexistent this campaign ( lil Modric could do about that) anyway, My point is as i said before players in different sports are performing at elite level between 30-36. earlier it was not seen and seen as exception. Let's discuss tennis. Do players lose speed in their 30s? Yes! Endurance? Not much! Do they have skill set to compensate for loss of speed in their 30s ? Yes! Or Speed is all to be ? No! they have good enough speed and movement to hang on in rallies and superior ground strokes to win against younger opponents.

 

[ForehandCross]

In fact yesterday's final actually cemented the idea that how lethal and match changing genuine GOAT level talent at young age can be.

Once Mbappe started, it felt he was the only guy on the field. Same used to be said about Messi and Ronaldo.

Mbappe eclipsed Messi easily for me in the match even when Messi was great yesterday. And all it took him was 30-40 min. Messi and Ronaldo have had many matches like that in their youth too.

Basically better healthcare and medicine might have allowed the great athletes to retain some of their greatness, but a GOAT level talent in youth>>>>>>>>>

 

[ForehandCross]

Basically better healthcare and medicine might have allowed the great athletes to retain most of their greatness, but a GOAT level talent in youth>>>>>>>>>

This is the actual truth to be honest. Something that this forum will never agree on.

 

[NeutralFan]

In fact yesterday's final actually cemented the idea that how lethal and match changing genuine GOAT level talent at young age can be.

Once Mbappe started, it felt he was the only guy on the field. Same used to be said about Messi and Ronaldo.

Mbappe eclipsed Messi easily for me in the match even when Messi was great yesterday. And all it took him was 30-40 min. Messi and Ronaldo have had many matches like that in their youth too.

Basically better healthcare and medicine might have allowed the great athletes to retain some of their greatness, but a GOAT level talent in youth>>>>>>>>>

First of all stop comparing Ronaldo with Messi , second Kylie was nonexistent till 75 minutes and could do very little when space is not given him to run in boxes or Argentine midfield was tired. Second, Kylie is already 24 and has not won a single ballon d'or and was eclipsed by Benzema last year ( his brilliant CL run) football is more than scoring goals. Messi no longer plays upfront and is far more involved in midfield and breaking defense through passing. Messi this year has 24 goals and around 20 Assist while Kylie has 28 goals and 10 assist . I am not even talking about chances creation, key passes, through balls, splitting defense etc if i add them then there's no comparison even at 35 Messi is ahead of Kylie. In nutshell,you don't understand football, might be a stick and ball lover.

 

[Fairhit]

One of the big differences between football and tennis is that because the former is a team sport, there are positions - including very important ones - for players who don't run much. Messi now plays as an attacking midfield playmaker and so he doesn't run as much as before. In tennis, there are no such transitions available.

@NeutralFan Okay, on a serious note, I love Modric, but he clearly wasn't as good in this World Cup (at 37) as in the last (when he was already almost 33). I do agree that 32/33 is a perfectly "prime" age for many footballers, but 37 is still pushing it a little. Competitive, yes, but not as good as before.

I can make a direct comparison with tennis, Messi has turned more into a playmaker the same way Nadal has turned into an aggressive player incorporating much more net play and by being more aggressive with his serve.

 

[triforce defender]

Tom Brady won a Super Bowl at age 42 in his first season with a new team.

Steph Curry won his 4th NBA Championship and 1st NBA Finals MVP at age 33.

Albert Pujols hit 24 home runs in his final season at age 42.

Ocarina of Time Link was literally a skeleton when he taught Twilight Princess Link seven advanced sword techniques.

 

[helterskelter]

I can make a direct comparison with tennis, Messi has turned more into a playmaker the same way Nadal has turned into an aggressive player incorporating much more net play and by being more aggressive with his serve.

Fair enough. Good point.

 

[Kralingen]

LeBron is aging better than anyone in the toughest sport to age in. For a basketball perspective this is an exceptional read that attempts to quantify https://towardsdatascience.com/what...n-the-modern-nba-31bcc396f177?gi=ae37ebf8c9b8

 

[ForehandRF]

there is not much physical difference between 25 and 30-35

That's not true because professional athletes suffer from wear and tear.At 35 a tennis player has much more tennis in his legs than at 25 and his recovery is slower, especially after gruelling 5 set matches

 

[BauerAlmeida]

You cannot compare individual sports with team sports. Contact sports with non-contact sports.

And even within the same sport you cannot compare a forward (Cristiano Ronaldo/Messi) with a defender (Pepe/Maldini).


There is more longevity now than a few years ago, undoubtedly, but some comparisons are apples and oranges.

 

[NeutralFan]

LeBron is aging better than anyone in the toughest sport to age in. For a basketball perspective this is an exceptional read that attempts to quantify https://towardsdatascience.com/what...n-the-modern-nba-31bcc396f177?gi=ae37ebf8c9b8

I wish I could know what you're talking about.could never get in to basketball.

You cannot compare individual sports with team sports. Contact sports with non-contact sports.

And even within the same sport you cannot compare a forward (Cristiano Ronaldo/Messi) with a defender (Pepe/Maldini).


There is more longevity now than a few years ago, undoubtedly, but some comparisons are apples and oranges.

You didn't read my post carefully, i didn't compare Pepe with Messi , i said he's one of the players who has been immense (at 38) btw Messi is more of a playmaker since last 3 years than he's a forward. he has been the one carrying ball forward and splitting up defense through passing. His stats are insane as a playmaker aswell as forward that you could not simply call him either.

 

[Kralingen]

The biggest difference btw is that the team sport players who’ve aged the best have seen a big decline in the defensive or “pressing” side of their games.

Messi and Ronaldo literally don’t press at all anymore and essentially poach at the front doing minimal running

LeBron’s defense has fallen off a cliff although he still plays good in crunch time, just not as consistent

American football players by definition play only one side of the game and sit on the bench for half of it

Tennis is the sport where you play offense defense and goalkeeper all at the same time and you get no rest, no substitution, etc. it’s not that comparable

 

[RS]

This is Messi's this is his best period at international level.

But at club level he isn't what he used to be

 

[Jonesy]

Who the hell cares about what age athletes are winning, there is only one truth to the sports world, and that is

 

[Poisoned Slice]

The biggest difference btw is that the team sport players who’ve aged the best have seen a big decline in the defensive or “pressing” side of their games.

Messi and Ronaldo literally don’t press at all anymore and essentially poach at the front doing minimal running

LeBron’s defense has fallen off a cliff although he still plays good in crunch time, just not as consistent

American football players by definition play only one side of the game and sit on the bench for half of it

Tennis is the sport where you play offense defense and goalkeeper all at the same time and you get no rest, no substitution, etc. it’s not that comparable

Ronaldo's pants might get pressed but that's as far as it ever went with his pressing love affair. New age coaches trying to make him do these alien moves. Such betrayal.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Big 3 were still better when they were younger most the time as good as they were in there 30s.

 

[Fairhit]

The biggest difference btw is that the team sport players who’ve aged the best have seen a big decline in the defensive or “pressing” side of their games.

Messi and Ronaldo literally don’t press at all anymore and essentially poach at the front doing minimal running

LeBron’s defense has fallen off a cliff although he still plays good in crunch time, just not as consistent

American football players by definition play only one side of the game and sit on the bench for half of it

Tennis is the sport where you play offense defense and goalkeeper all at the same time and you get no rest, no substitution, etc. it’s not that comparable

These players can still be relevant and compete at the highest level because their bodies can keep up and the athletic capacity they have lost over the years, can be compensated with intelligent play product of experience, 20-30 years ago any player no matter how good, wasn't able to compete as their bodies weren't able able to keep up with the field no matter the sport.

Today they manage to have enough athleticism after 30 to keep up with younger players.

 

[MeatTornado]

Tom Brady won a Super Bowl at age 42 in his first season with a new team.

Steph Curry won his 4th NBA Championship and 1st NBA Finals MVP at age 33.

Albert Pujols hit 24 home runs in his final season at age 42.

Ocarina of Time Link was literally a skeleton when he taught Twilight Princess Link seven advanced sword techniques.

Pujols does not belong with those others. He was a full time DH and just selling out to hit home runs every AB so he could reach 700 before retiring. His age caught up to him like 7 or 8 years ago already. He hasn't been among the elite in a very long time.

If anything, baseball is the one game that's been trending more and more towards young players than ever before.

 

[Herald]

.

 

[Phoenix*]

It's because they would have to admit Fed was never really old, just not good enough.

 

[accidental]

International football is very different to the regular season though. A lot of those guys have declined noticeably at their club when they have to play week in week out

 

[NeutralFan]

International football is very different to the regular season though. A lot of those guys have declined noticeably at their club when they have to play week in week out

Noone claimed they are playing at their absolute peak. Modric was best midfielder in Madrid's CL and la liga run last season , Benzema won player of the year (34) Before him Messi and Lewandowski ( all in their 30s)Even this season Messi is topping Goal+ Assist chart while playing from deep (24 goals+18 assists) Kylian is (28 goals +10 assist ) didn't even take in to account chances creation, key passes, splitting of defenses etc. If i add later matrics second placed kylian will be blown Outta water.

 

[NeutralFan]

The biggest difference btw is that the team sport players who’ve aged the best have seen a big decline in the defensive or “pressing” side of their games.

Messi and Ronaldo literally don’t press at all anymore and essentially poach at the front doing minimal running

Messi plays from deep and is anything but a poacher , two season back he had highest goals outside box and is topping Assist chart. Has he become a different player?yes, but poacher? lol. did you see his Assist against Croatia? Or Netherland? If anything he has become a GOAT passer in last few years ( was always top passer)

 

[triforce defender]

Messi plays from deep and is anything but a poacher , two season back he had highest goals outside box and is topping Assist chart. Has he become a different player?yes, but poacher? lol. did you see his Assist against Croatia? Or Netherland? If anything he has become a GOAT passer in last few years ( was always top passer)

Messi is the Magic Johnson of soccer

 

[Kralingen]

Messi plays from deep and is anything but a poacher , two season back he had highest goals outside box and is topping Assist chart. Has he become a different player?yes, but poacher? lol. did you see his Assist against Croatia? Or Netherland? If anything he has become a GOAT passer in last few years ( was always top passer)

Not literally a poacher but in terms of chilling at the front doing minimal running he absolutely does that.

I mean come on, Messi hasn’t pressed since 2018. He doesn’t make those defense dragging runs behind anymore, he covers little ground. He has maximized his efficiency from outside the box both in playmaking free kicks and long shots, but he’s far from the player he was in the early 2010s (perhaps the greatest peak in pro sports)

 

[DSH]

The Djokovic clan is selling the Lobo de Amor magic potion to all elite athletes of advanced age, it seems.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Pujols does not belong with those others. He was a full time DH and just selling out to hit home runs every AB so he could reach 700 before retiring. His age caught up to him like 7 or 8 years ago already. He hasn't been among the elite in a very long time.

If anything, baseball is the one game that's been trending more and more towards young players than ever before.

Was just about to mention this. Baseball hasn’t felt this young in a long time, especially in the batters box.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Not literally a poacher but in terms of chilling at the front doing minimal running he absolutely does that.

I mean come on, Messi hasn’t pressed since 2018. He doesn’t make those defense dragging runs behind anymore, he covers little ground. He has maximized his efficiency from outside the box both in playmaking free kicks and long shots, but he’s far from the player he was in the early 2010s (perhaps the greatest peak in pro sports)

Messi's best season was 2011/2012. 24 years old - Surprised_Pikachu.png.

 

[albatros_forehand]

Speedwise? Yes! endurance wise? Not much , Son!

But what is speed without endurance? If you are able to give it your all but for a set or two only then I would always bet on someone with .8 the speed but better strength and endurance.

 

[RS]

Quite a few people think 2018/2019 was Messi's best season because he carried a weaker Barca side and he was at his most complete