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Volkl cyclone 19 - super thin, playable poly
The Miracle 'Have It All' Poly - Does It Exist??
- Thread starter Kalin
- Start date
Update.
Since I've switched to an open pattern spin racquet. I've been breaking anything less than 1.26 mm in about 1 to 2 hours. After playing around with multiple strings I've found i really like Völkl V-Star in 16 gauge. Last considerably longer than the lighter gauges but it still to me has the feel and spin I've grown accustomed to in lighter gauges. Power is sacrificed but at this point my game doesn't need help with power.
my current thought on poly is use the stiffer poly with the best tension maintenance attributes. KB Max Power 16G or 17G is an example, and LTEC 0S 17G is another good one but more $. Lux 4G also has these attributes but I've not tried it and it is expensive too. KB Max Power is my current poly string of choice. I try to string it between 45-48 lbs as it is stiff and doesn't need to be strung higher. I use it as a cross but you could use it in an all poly setup and probably even string it lower unless you use a spin tech super open pattern.
couple of things on ZX which I have played a lot with and in differing string combos, it does not play that well in a full set but plays much better in the mains with a cheap syngut cross like Gosen, in fact you'll break the crosses first and you can just restring them if you like. This brings the cost down a lot. TW has a 4 pack of ZX for $11 a set so that is $5.50 plus a $1.50 for Gosen crosses lets say, so that's $7 for what IMO is one of the better string jobs you can get with spin, comfort, control and longeviy of playability. If you prestretch tension maintenance is very good as well. Tension controls power with this string.
fgs
Hall of Fame
my current set-up comes in at €3,40, approx. $4 being one set of helix mains and two sets of pro's pro hitech multifibre crosses and lasts me roughly 4hrs, meaning that each hour of hitting factors in with roughly 1 buck in regard to strings. the combo i plan to be moving to would cost even less! therefore, in order to become economically viable, i'd need the zx mains to last at least 12hrs of hitting, which it does not, and you have to be counting the crosses too.
i have gone through 20+ syngut crosses in the hope to be finding one that lasts and plays well until its demise, but none, including the gosen, have made it playabilitywise past the 2-2,5hrs mark. durability was mostly ok, meaning that they lasted about the same time as the mains, but on the other hand the durability of the mains was lower due to higher interstring friction of poly/syngut, usually breaking at the 3-3,5hrs mark as opposed to 4hrs with my usual multi-cross.
i pretty much enjoyed the zx as a mains regarding oncourt performance, but there are some polys out there that basically match this performance and in the end cost less.
Kalin
Legend
I thought both TB and SPPP held tension very well (and many others confirm it) but since I found them underpowered for my game I never managed to get a feel for their spin potential. Everyone raves about the spin potential of the Tour Bite, though, so maybe you can start with it; it also looks awesome. It is a stiff string, mind you! SPPP felt more like an all-rounder to me and is a much more affordable choice where I live. Both are fine strings.
I'm currently trying some Tourna BHB7 and so far I like it; spin and power are great and so far it's holding up (only a couple of matches, though). I did, however, try it back to back with a natural gut hybrid (with MSV Focus) and man... you can then really feel how much stiffer the poly is
By itself it feels very nice, though, just don't compare it with gut I thought both TB and SPPP held tension very well (and many others confirm it) but since I found them underpowered for my game I never managed to get a feel for their spin potential. Everyone raves about the spin potential of the Tour Bite, though, so maybe you can start with it; it also looks awesome. It is a stiff string, mind you! SPPP felt more like an all-rounder to me and is a much more affordable choice where I live. Both are fine strings.
I'm currently trying some Tourna BHB7 and so far I like it; spin and power are great and so far it's holding up (only a couple of matches, though). I did, however, try it back to back with a natural gut hybrid (with MSV Focus) and man... you can then really feel how much stiffer the poly is
thx kalin. i'll definitely give bhb7 a try. i've never tried gut hybrids, but i've used various poly/multi hybrids. full poly could hardly match hybrid in feel but if that's what you want, i would recommend polystar ennergy. it's very plush and quite powerful for a poly and has decent spin. tension maintainance is average i would say. i've played with the 1.20 for about 10 hours and it has lost quite some tension, but i think it's still playable (not dead yet).
Kalin
Legend
Thanks, I really liked Polystar Energy as a softening cross but still haven't tried it as a main; will do that. As for the BHB7, it is good but it doesn't have a reputation for maintaining playability for a long time.
The best feel I've got so far from poly has been Black Magic but spin was a bit lacking. Topspin Cyber Blue is another contender.
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
I'd say 8 to 12 hours would be great; more would be a gift and anything under 6 would be unacceptable
I don't hit as hard as you, however, since I found the regular Tourbite not powerful enough plus it still feels the same after maybe 5-6 hours of play.
I can probably get a good 20-30 hours out of my poly/multi hybrids. Usually I restring about once a month.
Kalin
Legend
Sounds very good, what are you using?? I was thinking of trying a multi main but I'm afraid spin will be less. A poly main with a multi cross sounds enticing but I always thought the multi cross will snap too soon...
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
I use Volkl Cyclone in the mains about 51-52 lbs, and then Volkl V-Feel in the crosses at 54-55 lbs. For me that setup works wonders. Just my advice, but I'd say to use the poly in the mains and the multi in the crosses. Poly is most certainly going to be the more durable string of the two, so it would seem to make more sense to put the softer multi in the crosses. Then also you get more of the benefits of using poly in the crosses as far as spin potential and control are concerned.
Ah so that's my problem. I'm playing 15 to 20 hours a week. So my strings take a beating. I was seeing how long Völkl V-Star would last if I used just one racquet. Sadly it was only a week (roughly 17 to 19 hours). But since I have 4 racquets I'm going to start rotating them all.
Some thoughts about the perfect poly/multi hybrid:I've read through many pages until my eyes have bled and have paid particular attention to the last week's threads about soft polys, spinny polys and polys that keep tension well. I've even jotted down quite some comments and compared them (yes, I am like that). Seems that, like with many things in life, it is relatively easy to get any 2-part combination choosing between spin, power and tension maintenance but very hard or maybe even impossible to get all three.
How about the ultimate poly for us decent yet far-from-pro players (3.5-4.5). One that combines power, spin and tension maintenance? I, and I'm sure many others, love the added spin of polys but still like having power and tension maintenance like our previous strings. Does such a wonder string even exist?
And yes, I know about hybriding natural gut with polys. Any full-bed solution?? Any price is good but if it is affordable it will be like a big, red cherry on the cake
Edit: just to provide some references: I liked the tension maintenance of SPPP & Tourbite but they lacked power for me. I liked the power of Genesis Black Magic but it lacked spin and didn't last that long. ProSupex Big Ace was good but felt too elastic (it's a very light string); should be better on a 95 sqin frame not on the 102 open-patterned one I tried it on. So far the best allrounders seem to be Topspin Cyberblue and Volkl Cyclone Tour. I couldn't try SP Hyperion long enough since I sold the racquet away after 1 match.
Today: left in fire wire 1,20mm mains, and xx1 biphase crosses: 55, 55, 45, 40, 55, 55, 55, 55, 60 on down.
Ok. That was a lot of spin, but not overwhelming unless I cranked it!
I made too many mistakes. I wanted more control and more power.
So, the newer mains have more bite but that doesn't last for long.
Looking for the perfect vibronic frequency of the x1 cross with the fire wire main. Going to try 1.30mm fire wire mains at 55lb first six mains, and 60lbs outwards.
Now going to change crosses leaving current mains 1.20mm that have been reused three times/while changing x 1 tension, using the same string but reusing it, so that the only thing changing is: losing some tension on mains even after lock down pre/cross. Notch points change a bit after tension reroutes the existing crosses after 2nd or 3rd restring. They get more frayed as well, and sometimes show nicked areas.
To get more power, and spin, the hitting sweet spot has to be in the right harmonic with the mains, if you desire control as well as power/spin ratio.
I hit up top, about 4, 5. 6 down from the top of the frame, as that's where my notching/wear is. If that pocket is perfected, that's the harmonic rebound area. The ball just doesn't stay on there for very long, so the spin rate increases if the mains slide more there, but control is lost if the harmonic is off. I call it the harmonic. The pocket is actually whereever you happen to be striking the ball! ON the string bed, that is.
So, as the mains slide up more: lower crosses tensioned in that 4-5-6 strike zone, the mains will slide more and grab ball more. The general tension, or average tension will determine the elasticity, strike back force. (Controls power and depth). The angle of the frame at strke back, speed of the frame at its angle, path of the frame up/down, impact rebound from your body (frequency/determination rate of your grip strength, wrist rebound possibility, whether it's loose or not, allowing the frame to bounce back more or not, all together determine that pocketed feel.
Control. Power. Spin. As a combined group, felt separately, every great player can distinguish the ball more deftly, not just through talent, dna, or training/strokes/mechanics/mood, personality/ match play self currency on the line or not!
These frequencies in question vary. How you feel at strike back varies. Your focus varies. Your strings lose tension. Your technique changes sometimes. Your strike back angle changes. Your body speed changes. Your frame speed changes. Your stance/open/closed/neutral/good/bad/indifferent mind set/Your mind changes.
The increased power/feel ratio I am after is this: which feels incredible at power when hit for, spin when hit for, and control when hit for. But, not many of us can compartmentalize and choose: hit for power, hit for huge spin, hit for huge control: but some of us can. When we change just one variable, the path way choices that result are lessened. I know my technique doesn't change much from day to day, unless I experiment. I know the mains don't feel that much different from experiment to experiment on crosses, it's the crosses that are determining: feel, spin, control. The mains as they loosen more affect power than spin, so even when strung at a high tension, can huge spin be attained, so it's obvious that snap back grabbing time spent on the bed, does not completely explain spin feel and spin control rates. The reason so many pros drop the crosses by 4-6lbs, is to allow less friction on the strike bed mains.
A radical experiment would be to drop the strike bed 4-5-6 crosses down to 40lbs, and keep all the rest at 65lbs. I have not done that exact one yet, but one similar I found there to be too little control, more spin, more power, but the tension I tried was less than 65lbs.
Another one to try is strike bed 4-5-6 at 45lbs, and mains at 65 or even higher. Or, to combat that loss, the mains would have to be strung tighter at initial string job, say, 65lbs. If the mains start at 65lb, and the 4-5-6 strike beds are at 40lb, and the rest of the crosses are at normal harmonic snap back: say 4lb less than the mains, the rest of the crosses would be at 60-61lb. So to test that, the mains at 65, strike bed 4-5-6 at 40, rest of the crosses at 61lb.
There is also an question of what happens when you hit outside the strike bed. Control will be lost. Badly. Do this ony if you can control your strike bed location all the time? Not sure about that one yet. But control does go bad anyway if outside strike zone bed, just not as exaggerated in a normal string job. Tension is more average, so power/spin/control are dampened.
There is also the question of lubricating only the strike bed, say with sun screen lotion, only in the small area where you hit the ball normally. What does that do to feel? I have felt it to be bad as well as good. Depends on snap back harmonic. Lubing them creates less friction, more snap back/sliding, but general bed elasticity determines depth/power, more so than strke bed snap back does. IF the strings are sliding/grabbing more the angle of trajectory also changes if all else stays the same: technique, frame angle, etc. The ball is going to spin more if it stays grabbed more, and more spin makes it rise up if it's top spin anyway. The whole piece is about more top spin, and slice is just an asterisk now.
How LOw Can You Go in the strike bed anyway? Do thicker strings affect snap back harmonics? It's the mains that are grabbing and the crosses that are frictioning the mains. Yet, if the snap back stays on the ball too long, it does not "fling" or spin the ball as well as it does when the snap back is timed with the ball time on string bed. When you hit for flat, the snap back does not come into play as much as when you hit for spin. So is there a perfect combo for both, given that snap back varies? And affects power/spin ratio determined by the variables. Thinner crosses, allow less friction as they stick up less. Should the strike back 456 crosses by thinner than the rest of the crosses?
That is something very few have tried. Stringing the 456 crosses with a totally different string than the rest of the crosses. Too much tension loss in the extra tie offs, and takes too much time to do, and more grommet holes at risk, so no one does it. I will try it, but what happens to harmonic if the 456 are a different string, say lux ace 1,12mm? That would allow you to just restring the 456 crosses, and leave all the rest of the frame strings intact. Lux ace loses tension very fast, as any thin string does compared to a thicker one of the same. It would also allow you to try multiple 456 crosses at the same tension to judge feel changes, if your knot tension loss is similar for each.
So I tried it, using x1 on all crosses but the 456 crosses, which I used vs touch, and strung the mains with fire wire 1.20mm: 65 on first six mains, 63 on next two on either side, and then up to 75 on final tie off mains. Then: x1: crosses, 65, 65, 65, vs touch crosses on 4: 45, 45, 45, and x1 crosses on down at 60lbs. Have not hit with it yet.
Kalin
Legend
Thanks; I'll try some Cyclone mains with whatever multi I have for a start. Hopefully this will keep the great spin of Cyclone and increase power and comfort.
Been playing some with Tecnifibre RuffCode. Nice and crisp. Good pop. Good consistent trajectory control. Good spin. Really enjoy it in my PS97LS. Would rank it in the top 3 or 4 on my list for overall performance in a poly.
Tecnifibre RuffCode
Volkl Cyclone Pink
Kirschbaum ProLine X
Solinco Tour Bite Diamond Rough
I also think RuffCode with Double AR 666 would be a pretty sweet hybrid setup. 666 is my go to cross for a hybrid.
Tecnifibre RuffCode
Volkl Cyclone Pink
Kirschbaum ProLine X
Solinco Tour Bite Diamond Rough
I also think RuffCode with Double AR 666 would be a pretty sweet hybrid setup. 666 is my go to cross for a hybrid.
rodrigoamaral
Hall of Fame
OP: Have you tried hybriding 2 poly's before?
Kalin
Legend
Yes, I used to have a full bed of black 17G Cyclone at 53/51 lbs on my old 28" Wilson 5.8 (a very stiff racquet despite the modest 5.8si rating) and at next restringing I asked the guy to put beige Polystar Energy crosses with the Cyclone mains resulting in the ugliest stringbed ever! The power & comfort increase was immediately noticeable (53/51 or thereabouts was the tension). I didn't make a note of the longevity but I had heard so much about Energy's bad tension maintenance that subconsciously I at some point felt the bed was becoming too loose and replaced it with a full bed of Solinco Tour Bite at 50- ouch! It was like going from sleeping on a down pillow to resting your head on a ragged boulder.
I'll get a stringer in spring (little tennis to be played here in winter so don't want to clutter the apartment) and then I can start more experiments. My problem is that I have too many old racquets of different makes and stiffness levels (and stringbed density) that I like to rotate and it's hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons especially when I have to take them outside to be strung..
I do like the bite of shaped mains and, despite from what people say, I do feel they give me better spin. I also noticed how much more plush and powerful the gut mains are on my Tonic+ 15L/MCC Focus-Hex hybrid but the spin is noticeably less. The shots come out much faster and more penetrating though.
So it seems the direction of spinny mains and softening/power-adding crosses is an interesting one to explore. Please everyone keep the suggestions and records of your own experiences coming!
