The new generation

[Robert C]

Been reading on here for some time but never posted. Am I the only one who thinks the new mini generation (generations should only be considered to be a 3-4 year range - Federer is not the same generation as Nadal) is on course to be potentially the second best ever?

After the Nadal-Djokovic-Murray generation. We have had two average generations but now the 19-22 year olds are very impressive for their age.

Zverev, Shapovalov, Tsitsipas, Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Khachanov, Coric, Fritz

Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great, is only a question of reducing his error rate. Players like Rublev will end up being a Berdych at worst.

For those who say they haven’t proved anything yet, there’s not much point in accurate predictions if you have to wait till it has already happened. Many said the same about Federer for three years after his victory over Sampras, he kept getting written off as a loser! Players need a chance to grow up and to also become comfortable since tennis is such a mental game. Prepare to be very excited for what these youngsters are about to do.

 

[Zebrev]

I agree Zverev is an ATG, and we are heading into a much more competitive era than 2014 - 2017 was. The future is bright for tennis fans.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

I agree Zverev is an ATG, and we are heading into a much more competitive era than 2014 - 2017 was. The future is bright for tennis fans.

 

[Standaa]

50 % of TTW fans feel optimistic about the future of tennis. The other half don’t do drugs.

 

[Plamen1234]

I agree Zverev is an ATG, and we are heading into a much more competitive era than 2014 - 2017 was. The future is bright for tennis fans.

Zverev could be an ATG but I dont think he is now.He havent won Grand Slam tournament.But people have different view of ATG sometimes.For me Murray with 3 GS titles is not ATG for example but for some he probably is

 

[Sudacafan]

Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great, is only a question of reducing his error rate.

Just out of curiosity, what is an All Time Great for you?

 

[Zebrev]

Not all GrandSlam 3rd rounds are created equal, you know.

 

[reaper]

Been reading on here for some time but never posted. Am I the only one who thinks the new mini generation (generations should only be considered to be a 3-4 year range - Federer is not the same generation as Nadal) is on course to be potentially the second best ever?

After the Nadal-Djokovic-Murray generation. We have had two average generations but now the 19-22 year olds are very impressive for their age.

Zverev, Shapovalov, Tsitsipas, Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Khachanov, Coric, Fritz

Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great, is only a question of reducing his error rate. Players like Rublev will end up being a Berdych at worst.

For those who say they haven’t proved anything yet, there’s not much point in accurate predictions if you have to wait till it has already happened. Many said the same about Federer for three years after his victory over Sampras, he kept getting written off as a loser! Players need a chance to grow up and to also become comfortable since tennis is such a mental game. Prepare to be very excited for what these youngsters are about to do.

It's about as premature as can be to describe Zverev as an all time great, although I do think it likely there'll be at least one all time great emerge from the current crop of young players. Whether it's Zverev, Shapavalov, Tsitsipas or Felix (the 17yo Canadian whose surname escapes me) remains to be seen. Its possible Zverev is the best of them, but just as likely he's benefiting from being the first of a wave.

 

[Robert C]

Just out of curiosity, what is an All Time Great for you?

I’d say perhaps 6 slams qualifies you - Becker, Edberg sort of territory.

 

[Robert C]

Not all GrandSlam 3rd rounds are created equal, you know.

Every great player has their weaknesses in their cvs at the start - and they all seem to be criticised for them. According to this forum, no one was ever good enough early on to end up being great, not even Federer and Nadal.

Zverev has overperformed in Masters and underperformed in slams. But it doesn’t need much understanding to see he is headed for greatness - other than the fact he is continually improving starting from an extremely high level but all the stats also suggest he’ll do very well - eg what’s the worst career that has ever played out for someone who has won three masters by the age of 21?

 

[Zebrev]

Every great player has their weaknesses in their cvs at the start - and they all seem to be criticised for them. According to this forum, no one was ever good enough early on to end up being great, not even Federer and Nadal.

Zverev has overperformed in Masters and underperformed in slams. But it doesn’t need much understanding to see he is headed for greatness - other than the fact he is continually improving starting from an extremely high level but all the stats also suggest he’ll do very well - eg what’s the worst career that has ever played out for someone who has won three masters by the age of 21?

Yes, you're right, and I'm a big Zverev fan. Sometimes it's good humoured fun to play along though, hehe.

 

[Robert C]

It's about as premature as can be to describe Zverev as an all time great, although I do think it likely there'll be at least one all time great emerge from the current crop of young players. Whether it's Zverev, Shapavalov, Tsitsipas or Felix (the 17yo Canadian whose surname escapes me) remains to be seen. Its possible Zverev is the best of them, but just as likely he's benefiting from being the first of a wave.

It’s not premature if you’re right. Was it too early when I said when Nadal was only 17 that he was going to be an all time great? Because it was very clear.

Zverev is a certainty, Shapovalov and Tsitsipas are quite likely, Aliassime I can’t tell at all yet which is a no for now. The things you look for that lead to later massive success are clear if you look carefully. You just have to refine it so you keep predicting accurately.

 

[reaper]

It’s not premature if you’re right. Was it too early when I said when Nadal was only 17 that he was going to be an all time great? Because it was very clear.

Zverev is a certainty, Shapovalov and Tsitsipas are quite likely, Aliassime I can’t tell at all yet which is a no for now. The things you look for that lead to later massive success are clear if you look carefully. You just have to refine it so you keep predicting accurately.

It becomes a matter of how you define an all time great....I wouldn't say he's a certainty to win (say) 12 slams but if the bar is set low enough I'm sure he'll clear it.

 

[Sudacafan]

I agree Zverev is an ATG, and we are heading into a much more competitive era than 2014 - 2017 was. The future is bright for tennis fans.

Zverev today has not reached ATG status, I don't know how you come out with this.
The more we can say is that he is an ATG prospect, and there is a lot to happen for that to materialize.

 

[Sudacafan]

I’d say perhaps 6 slams qualifies you - Becker, Edberg sort of territory.

After Fedalovic everything is possible.

 

[Robert C]

Zverev today has not reached ATG status, I don't know how you come out with this.
The more we can say is that he is an ATG prospect, and there is a lot to happen for that to materialize.

I don’t see how basic English is that difficult to follow. Talking about the future is different to talking about the present. His status lies ahead but that is where he will end up.

 

[Sudacafan]

I don’t see how basic English is that difficult to follow. Talking about the future is different to talking about the present. His status lies ahead but that is where he will end up.

I quoted the statement "I agree Zverev is an all time great", which is expressed in present tense. The statement was not yours.
It is plainly a misstatement, unless it is interpreted as future tense, which is not, as per the grammar books I used to learn English.

 

[duaneeo]

Been reading on here for some time but never posted. Am I the only one who thinks the new mini generation (generations should only be considered to be a 3-4 year range - Federer is not the same generation as Nadal)...

Nadal is a special case. By the time Djokovic peaked in 2011, Nadal had already been top-2 for 6 consecutive years, YE#1 for 2 of those years, had won 9 slams (including his lone AO title and 2 Wimbledon titles) and 18 Masters.

Regarding the current NextGen, I'm excited. Don't know if Zverev will become an ATG, but definitely think he's a future multi-slam winner and #1. He's definitely the standout.

 

[gogo]

50 % of TTW fans feel optimistic about the future of tennis. The other half don’t do drugs.

I must be on the drugs side as I am happily optimistic.

 

[George Turner]

Been reading on here for some time but never posted. Am I the only one who thinks the new mini generation (generations should only be considered to be a 3-4 year range - Federer is not the same generation as Nadal) is on course to be potentially the second best ever?

After the Nadal-Djokovic-Murray generation. We have had two average generations but now the 19-22 year olds are very impressive for their age.

Zverev, Shapovalov, Tsitsipas, Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Khachanov, Coric, Fritz

Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great, is only a question of reducing his error rate. Players like Rublev will end up being a Berdych at worst.

For those who say they haven’t proved anything yet, there’s not much point in accurate predictions if you have to wait till it has already happened. Many said the same about Federer for three years after his victory over Sampras, he kept getting written off as a loser! Players need a chance to grow up and to also become comfortable since tennis is such a mental game. Prepare to be very excited for what these youngsters are about to do.

You're being generous calling the "lost gen" average. We currently have zero major winners under the age of 29, which is unprecedented. So statistically the lost gen are the worst generation ever.

What about the current next gen, who you label potentially the second best gen ever? Apart from Mur-djo-Nadal, the mid to late 80's and the early 90's had very strong generations. Wilander, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Courier etc. The next gen have a long way to go to surpass them.

 

[metsman]

So a generation with zero major finals between them and having only 2 guys even reach a major semi (and each time that happened the resulting performance was absolutely pathetic) is the 2nd best generation of all time? Makes sense I guess, after all Zverev is already better than Nadal on clay and Thiem put him and Fraud in the rearview mirror in 2016 according to @Meles.

 

[Tshooter]

...Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great,...

What happens when an agent hits the bottle.

 

[Tshooter]

... as per the grammar books I used to learn English.

Same book for me.

He came out swinging though. Only 5 posts before declaring a guy that has never won a major an all-time great.

 

[texasleaguer]

they'll all get busted for peds, which will drive them into a self-destructive downward spiral, and headlining on Dancing with the Stars.

 

[Meles]

You need to get comfortable with Zverev winning like ten slams in a row. Its going to be a while before any of the younger players can stop him.

 

[Meles]

So a generation with zero major finals between them and having only 2 guys even reach a major semi (and each time that happened the resulting performance was absolutely pathetic) is the 2nd best generation of all time? Makes sense I guess, after all Zverev is already better than Nadal on clay and Thiem put him and Fraud in the rearview mirror in 2016 according to @Meles.

I'm rapidly becoming a Zedzilla hater. Right now I feel like Gandalf trying to warn the Fraudling lords before its too late:

Zedzilla the servebot defiler is upon us.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

You need to get comfortable with Zverev winning like ten slams in a row. Its going to be a while before any of the younger players can stop him.

Coric, Chung...

 

[Meles]

Coric, Chung...

Chung is older than Zverev and losing to him. Coric goating on clay maybe. Frankly I think Tsitsipas might have the reach to snag back enough of those big first serves to be a threat to beat Zverev.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Chung is older than Zverev and losing to him. Coric goating on clay maybe. Frankly I think Tsitsipas might have the reach to snag back enough of those big first serves to be a threat to beat Zverev.

Wasn't sure if you were talking about the younger generation in general or just players younger than Z.

 

[Jonas78]

One are allowed to dream. The generation will almost certainly to better than the 89-92 guys, and certainly worse than the 85-89 guys.

Interesting to see for how long the 85-89 guys + Roger will prevent the younger guys from winning slams.

 

[Fedforever]

I quoted the statement "I agree Zverev is an all time great", which is expressed in present tense. The statement was not yours.
It is plainly a misstatement, unless it is interpreted as future tense, which is not, as per the grammar books I used to learn English.

It's present tense for those of us who have English as our mother tongue as well.

It's absurd to say Zverev is an ATG. If anyone thinks he has the potential to be one in the future then of course it's fine to say so.

 

[Robert C]

I quoted the statement "I agree Zverev is an all time great", which is expressed in present tense. The statement was not yours.
It is plainly a misstatement, unless it is interpreted as future tense, which is not, as per the grammar books I used to learn English.

Apologies. It was obvious though what he meant to say. I read it as he obviously intended it. “Zverev is an all-time great [in the making]” is the context. It wasn’t expressed clearly though

 

[Robert C]

So a generation with zero major finals between them and having only 2 guys even reach a major semi (and each time that happened the resulting performance was absolutely pathetic) is the 2nd best generation of all time? Makes sense I guess, after all Zverev is already better than Nadal on clay and Thiem put him and Fraud in the rearview mirror in 2016 according to @Meles.

It’s pretty normal for a generation aged between 19 and 21 to have no major finals between them, it’s obviously because they are at the start of their careers.

Thiem is many years older at 24, it’s a different generation, which hasn’t done so well.

No, not IS the second best generation, potentially WILL be, it’s called a prediction about the future.

Not sure why so many people on here attempt to misinterpret.

 

[oldmanfan]

It’s pretty normal for a generation aged between 19 and 21 to have no major finals between them, it’s obviously because they are at the start of their careers.

Thiem is many years older at 24, it’s a different generation, which hasn’t done so well.

No, not IS the second best generation, potentially WILL be, it’s called a prediction about the future.

Not sure why so many people on here attempt to misinterpret.

Fedalovicray is obviously the strongest group. Second best generation has a lot of groups in the running, so hard to tell. But I will say this, I do see a lot of Fedalovicray in Shapo/Tsitsipas/Chung/Zerev/Coric/FAA.

So the future no longer looks bleak compared to 2 years ago.

 

[Robert C]

Same book for me.

He came out swinging though. Only 5 posts before declaring a guy that has never won a major an all-time great.

It’s called making good predictions. I said Nadal would be an all time great when he was 17 before he had won any majors, I don’t see why correctly predicting Zverev does the same should be an issue - surely the earlier the better the prediction when it comes true?

 

[Tshooter]

Apologies. It was obvious though what he meant to say. I read it as he obviously intended it. “Zverev is an all-time great [in the making]” is the context.

Is. Who new the meaning of the word was so illusive. I’m a simple man and as such read it as an expression of present tense.

 

[Topspin Slice]

Been reading on here for some time but never posted. Am I the only one who thinks the new mini generation (generations should only be considered to be a 3-4 year range - Federer is not the same generation as Nadal) is on course to be potentially the second best ever?

After the Nadal-Djokovic-Murray generation. We have had two average generations but now the 19-22 year olds are very impressive for their age.

Zverev, Shapovalov, Tsitsipas, Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Khachanov, Coric, Fritz

Zverev is an all time great who will be number one probably this year. Shapovalov is also a future all time great, is only a question of reducing his error rate. Players like Rublev will end up being a Berdych at worst.

For those who say they haven’t proved anything yet, there’s not much point in accurate predictions if you have to wait till it has already happened. Many said the same about Federer for three years after his victory over Sampras, he kept getting written off as a loser! Players need a chance to grow up and to also become comfortable since tennis is such a mental game. Prepare to be very excited for what these youngsters are about to do.

I actually think Shapo may be limited by his relatively weak return - this is something which is pretty hard for players to improve compared to other parts of their game. His return stats aren't promising, but he has very promising serve stats.

Of the players you've mentioned, Khachanov interests me because of his killer forehand and extremely good movement for somebody of his height. Rublev and Tsitsipas are actually my favourite two, Chung I think will be held back by his serve but still have good results, and Zverev has shown that he has the mentality of a winner, which is the most important quality for...well, winners. Fritz and Tiafoe don't seem anything too special from their results or what I've seen. Coric...no idea yet, could go one of a number of ways.

Let's hope for a great generation anyway, it only hurts us as fans if they turn out not to be any good!

 

[pro_staff_user]

Gotta say though, these young guns have got me interested in watching the Masters in 2018.. Previously, I didn't care much for it..

The future of ATP tennis is definitely looking better..

Sent from my SM-N920G using Tapatalk

 

[Robert C]

I actually think Shapo may be limited by his relatively weak return - this is something which is pretty hard for players to improve compared to other parts of their game. His return stats aren't promising, but he has very promising serve stats.

You’ve hit on the main issue with him, I have the same concern. His volleys are currently poor which really hurts him given he can get into net positions so well but the volleys will improve with practice for sure. His return though, as you say, is much harder to improve. It’s gotten better but isn’t likely to become great. If he had a brilliant return I’d happily predict double digit majors. His offensive game is going to be one of the best we’ve ever seen but it’ll take a while to come together as there’s so much variety to how he plays - lots to perfect.

 

[Tornes]

It’s pretty normal for a generation aged between 19 and 21 to have no major finals between them, it’s obviously because they are at the start of their careers.

Thiem is many years older at 24, it’s a different generation, which hasn’t done so well.

No, not IS the second best generation, potentially WILL be, it’s called a prediction about the future.

Not sure why so many people on here attempt to misinterpret.

No, it is not "normal", at least not for an all time great generation.

ATG (6+ slams) - 3 of them WON slam aged 18. Other 4 aged 19. Just 5 did not have a slam to their name aged 21.

Nadal-Djokovic-Murray generation had 7 slam finals before age 21 (Nadal 4, Djokovic, Del Potro, Baghdatis)
The Fed's "weak era generation" had 3 slam finals (and 2 wins) before they were 21 years old, 5 till the age 21.5 (Hewitt 2, Safin 1, Nalbandian 1, Roddick 1).
Even the (truly) weak generation before Fed had 2 slam finals between them before the age of 21 (Kuerten, Moya).
Sampras generation had 6 slam finals before age 21 (Sampras, Agasi 2, Chang, Ivanisevic, Courier).
Willander-Edberg-Becker generation had 9 slam finals before age 21 (Willander 4, Edberg 2, Becker 3).
Borg-McEnroe gen had 5 slam finals before age 21 (Borg 4, McEnroe 1).

So the only generations who did not have slam finals to their name before the age of 21 are todays 29 and younger (at least 8 years now, might be longer). From Nishi to Dimitrov to Thiem to Kyrgios to Zverev. But it is NOT normal for generation not to have slam finals to their name by the age of 21. From the whole generation only Shapo and Tsitsipas has a chance to save them and be in the slam final before the age of 21.

 

[ibbi]

The second best generation EVER?