Thoughts about a 3.5 male player hitting forehand slices?

[TXM]

One of my co-workers hits with me regularly. Both of us are 3.5 players. One interesting thing I noticed is that he hit many forehand slices when we were playing a match. It didn't only happen when he was running to cover the baseline or trying to give me a drop shot. He sliced 50% of his forehand strokes when he was in a comfortable position to hit a full-swing shot. He hits good flat/top spin forehand shots when we practice, though. But in a match, he just chooses to slice a lot.
I understand competitive pressure in a match can change the way people hit, and since I'm a 3.5 who can't hit winners consistently he gets a few free points from me every match by repeatedly slicing on the forehand. That could be a big incentive for him. But I doubt it would help a 3.5 improve. And also, using slices as the primary weapon won't work at this level, let alone higher levels.
I would always prioritize hitting full-swing shots whenever possible, even if that means I will miss some of them and give a few free points. But at least I'm practicing my strokes under match pressure and could eventually develop better strokes. My co-worker obviously thinks otherwise. What do you think?

 

[OnTheLine]

I think your co-worker has your number.

A good FH slice is a weapon that pays big dividends in a lot of rec matches.

A driving slice shot will in fact work very well at 3.5 and at 4.0, and in watching 4.5 and 5.0 men's matches is utilized often with good results.

A slice approach shot is devastating at probably all levels in the land of recreational tennis.

A dipping or sliding slice with less pace ... well, everyone hates having to return one of those.

It all depends on your goals I suppose.

Do you want to win matches using an arsenal of different shots that you can employ or do you want nothing but a flashy forehand with a full-swing? That is a shot that is not always what a match situation calls for.

Overall, I would say that the "okay" players at 3.5 level play only full-swing flat or TS on the FH.
The better players play utilize a lot more slice and mix up their shot selection. The fact that your co-worker is going 50/50 tells me he is in that "better player" camp.

 

[Cindysphinx]

There could be a simple explanation: He lacks confidence in his FH when it counts. How do I know? I'm the same way.

I lack confidence in my FH -- big time. Especially in transition situations. So I bail out and slice, and at 3.5 I am usually rewarded with an error or at least a ball my opponent cannot lob off of well. And in a recent mixed match, with a male opponent who hit insane slice serves wide to my FH, I received in the deuce court and refused to hit a FH. Yup, I positioned with the whole middle open and hugged the deuce alley and hit BHs. That is pathetic. (And no, he could not place the ball up the middle for an easy ace!)

I worked on FH today in a lesson -- that's how concerned I am about this. I was doing almost everything wrong, so now it's a little better. I am going to hit my FH at every opportunity this weekend.

To answer your question, bailing out with slice is a bad idea. Using slice strategically when appropriate is a great idea.

 

[Max G.]

There's two options.

One is that he has no confidence in his fh, and so 'bails out' with a slice in a tough situation. In that case, he probably needs to fix that to improve.

Another is that he can confidently hit either a slice or a topspin fh, and is finding that against you a 50-50 mix is the strategic choice. In that case, he does not need to change that as he gets better, since both shots will remain usable and its good to keep the variety.

 

[dcdoorknob]

I’m a 3.5 male and I slice my forehand regularly. While the shot was born out of years and years of being somewhat unhappy with my drive / topspin forehand (it’s never been the strength of my game), the forehand slice has developed into a genuinely strong shot for me in many situations, relative to level. I enjoy hitting it and do sometimes get compliments on it.

Also 3.5 tennis is recreational tennis. People have different priorities. Maxing our long term stoke development sometimes takes a back seat to competing at current level with whatever shots you have and enjoying time on the court. And what’s wrong with that? Let’s be honest most of us playing 3.5 who aren’t teenagers and/or exceptional athletes are never going to get above 4.0 anyways.

 

[dcdoorknob]

Also for whatever it’s worth I know a solid mid level 4.0 who hits nothing but slice on both forehand and backhand. All his serves are sliced too. There are many ways to be effective in recreational tennis.

 

[travlerajm]

I’m a 4.5-5.0 male and I hit primarily slices on my forehand wing. I used to slice a lot less, but the more I slice, the better my results. I think the forehand slice gets a bad rap. Why is it somehow less acceptable to slice on the forehand compared to the backhand? Graf hit slices almost exclusively on one wing and she was the best player in the world for a decade.

 

[am1899]

^^ Same. I do it more out of necessity, as my FH topspin drive is on walk-about these days. When I slice it, if i “catch” it, it’s effective.

Then there’s Monica Niculescu. When’s the last time you’ve seen her hit a forehand that’s not a slice?

 

[am1899]

Also, a fellow collegiate coach told me about a player he coached who sliced everything from the baseline. Until, there was a pressure point - say at 5-5, 30-30...this guy would suddenly rip a topspin forehand for a winner. Coach said most times that would completely break his opponent - they couldn’t handle being sliced and diced all set, only for him to drive a ball out of nowhere.

Said player also played all of his matches in sweatpants - even if it was 90 degrees outside. He also wouldn’t eat before playing a match (citing superstition). One day they had a double header. So they play in the morning, and go to lunch. Dude refused to eat. So they go play the afternoon match, and naturally his match goes 3. Midway through the 3rd, he tells coach he thinks his sugar is low bc he is seeing stars, and he doesn’t know what the score is. Ya think? Regardless, he won the match anyway. Lol guy sounded like a real character.

 

[Cawlin]

Slice rules rec tennis.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/discussion-of-forehand-slice-for-strategic-applications.640833/

 

[undecided]

I wish my FH slice was more consistent. FH Slice is a weapon because it is not seen often so you catch players by surprise.

 

[GatorTennis]

Sounds like sour grapes.

A lot of really good 3.5 singles players slice off both wings, not to mention the doubles players. I'm a 4.0 and I slice my FH all the time in doubles. You have so many people that hit heavy topspin that it just feeds my slice.

It really seems like the OP should try to use a FH slice so he can understand the benefits and how to attack people with is.

 

[Cashman]

Forehand slice gets looked down on by a lot of people who play exclusively on higher-bouncing surfaces, because on those courts a well-executed flat or topspin forehand is almost always a better shot. If you do want to slice, your backhand is indisputably preferable because it’s easier to disguise and you get far more drive on the ball.

That means that the forehand slice is most often seen being hit by players who struggle with consistency on their more biomechanically-complicated topspin forehand. So it gets stereotyped as “the forehand you hit when you can’t hit a forehand”.

On low-bouncing surfaces however it is an essential shot, because you can very easily neutralise a topspin forehand by feeding it a short skiddy ball. These ankle-biters are easily dealt with by a forehand slice - you can knife it back with pace and come to net behind it.

Many a clay or hard court player has lost their first match on grass almost solely due to the lack of a good forehand slice in their repertoire.

 

[WestboroChe]

There could be a simple explanation: He lacks confidence in his FH when it counts. How do I know? I'm the same way.

I lack confidence in my FH -- big time. Especially in transition situations. So I bail out and slice, and at 3.5 I am usually rewarded with an error or at least a ball my opponent cannot lob off of well. And in a recent mixed match, with a male opponent who hit insane slice serves wide to my FH, I received in the deuce court and refused to hit a FH. Yup, I positioned with the whole middle open and hugged the deuce alley and hit BHs. That is pathetic. (And no, he could not place the ball up the middle for an easy ace!)

I worked on FH today in a lesson -- that's how concerned I am about this. I was doing almost everything wrong, so now it's a little better. I am going to hit my FH at every opportunity this weekend.

To answer your question, bailing out with slice is a bad idea. Using slice strategically when appropriate is a great idea.

I couldn’t agree more. You have to commit to your shots. My default BH is slice and if I commit to it and hit it consistently it’s a weapon. But if I want to drive it and chicken out. Well that’s just a sitting duck if it even makes it to the net.

 

[GatorTennis]

Forehand slice gets looked down on by a lot of people who play exclusively on higher-bouncing surfaces, because on those courts a well-executed flat or topspin forehand is almost always a better shot. If you do want to slice, your backhand is indisputably preferable because it’s easier to disguise and you get far more drive on the ball.

That means that the forehand slice is most often seen being hit by players who struggle with consistency on their more biomechanically-complicated topspin forehand. So it gets stereotyped as “the forehand you hit when you can’t hit a forehand”.

On low-bouncing surfaces however it is an essential shot, because you can very easily neutralise a topspin forehand by feeding it a short skiddy ball. These ankle-biters are easily dealt with by a forehand slice - you can knife it back with pace and come to net behind it.

Many a clay or hard court player has lost their first match on grass almost solely due to the lack of a good forehand slice in their repertoire.

Yeah, just slice when the ball is on the rise. you can produce some serious laserlike slices

 

[OnTheLine]

FWIW
Was at WTT finals (NY vs Springfield) last night. Lucky enough for VIP seats on the floor ... so really good look at what was going on. Made me think about this thread and the folly of disregarding the slice and thinking the heavy TS "big" FH is the holy grail.

In men's singles .. Slice was used on the FH at least 30% of the time and not while forced to on a stretch or some such.
Often the slice elicited an error, even at this level.

I realized that when I am just watching it on TV I don't realize how often they are slicing ..... their drive slice is so well disguised .... but at court level (and about 10' from the sideline!) you can really see it on their follow-through and in the spin of the ball and the action off the bounce.

 

[winchestervatennis]

Question for the OP, and sorry if i missed it, but is the guy’s slice flatter and driving, high and floating, or a mixture of both?

I’m a 4.5 and I hit a fair amount of fh slice. By fair amount I’d say 5%-10% of the time from the baseline and maybe a bit more than half the time on approach shots. From the baseline its always a driving slice and never a floater like i mix in on bh slices. Of course on approach its also always a driving slice. From the baseline i will use it more often on guys with a full western grip to keep the ball low; can be very effective.

And I agree with others that its a somewhat disrespected shot and looked down upon. It becomes even more effective when you win a few points against someone who looks down at the shot (you can tell when it gets under someone’s skin). Its also very useful against juniors and younger guys that are just used to bashing the hell out of the ball. In general, i like to try to keep my opponent out of a rhythm and using a fh slice helps that game plan.

All of the above is talking about singles. When returning in doubles, I probably slice (block) first serve returns 90% of the time and second serve returns 50%. I primarily play the ad side, but i do slice fh returns from the deuce but less often. Slicing returns nice and low creates a lot of chances for my partner since the server is normally hitting up on the next ball.

The fh slice may not be the sexiest shot, but i can certainly use it effectively and increase my chances of winning. But full disclosure, my topspin or flat forehand is just okay; not big enough to hit consistent winner, but solid enough that I rarely make unforced errors. If my forehand was a huge weapon then maybe I wouldn’t have messed around developing a strong fh slice? I’m 37 years old and other life obligations means I’m lucky to play once a week so putting in the time to develop a strong fh as a weapon just aint gonna happen. Instead I’ll play the hand I’ve been dealt which means hitting a fair amount of fh slice.

Just my two cents.

 

[MathGeek]

I have tons of respect for 3.5 FH slice guys. Lots of them have excellent placement and good pace. They can play that shot with great skill and angles that few can match with full FH strokes.

This game is about making that fuzzy yellow ball harder and harder to return. Lots of 3.5 slicers do a great job of that against their competition.

 

[leech]

I used to be a 3.5 who hit almost exclusively slice from my FH side. (I bought a Zepp sensor last year that proved what I already knew -- 95% of my FHs were hit with slice.) The reason was probably a combination of me not having enough confidence to consistently rip a topspin FH, and I felt the FH slice gave my opponent enough problems for me to keep going to the well. I got extremely good results.

This year I'm a 4.0 and I still am in the habit of hitting slice from my FH. I am still having good results, depending on the matchup. I played two guys that had zero trouble with my FH slice, and I won a total of 3 games from them in the two matches. And played one guy who just overpowered me no matter what I hit. But the other 7-8 opponents had enough trouble with a steady diet of FH slices that I'm on the cusp of getting bumped to 4.5. Which is crazy since I don't hit any shots that any teaching pro would advise.

 

[ShaunS]

Any time you're limited to one type of shot that's a bit of a weakness. At the 3.5 level, I don't think you'll see any real trouble playing slice shots in singles or doubles.

It does get murkier as you progress though. The physics of a slice shot make it more challenging to hit it with good pace and keep it in the court. As you progress in doubles you'll find it harder and harder to keep shots away from the net player without hitting net skimming slices every time, and that's probably going to increase your errors quite a bit.

In singles there's more opportunity. If you can reliably hit the ball deep with slice that's challenging for anyone to take advantage of, and it's why you'll see it used even at the professional level.

The bottom line is to me the slice is a really good "defensive" shot for singles at most levels and 3.5- doubles. You hit it until the opponent gives you the look you want, and then you go for your "offensive" weapon to finish the point. I've not faced anyone at the 4.0 doubles level who used slice shots extensively and gave me any trouble. It's not that it can't be done, but it's technically harder than a similar quality shot with topspin.

To reiterate, as I'm sure there will be disagreement. I'm not saying that slicing is a bad shot. It is a more difficult shot to hit when you're avoiding a net player who can poach balls that aren't close to the net. Your own development may be that you can hit a great slice shot easier than a good topspin, and I'm a strong advocate of doing what works.

When returning in doubles, I probably slice (block) first serve returns 90% of the time and second serve returns 50%. I primarily play the ad side, but i do slice fh returns from the deuce but less often.

I should mention that I don't really think of these as slice shots. When I hear forehand slice, I'm thinking of the full swing shot, as opposed to chip/charge returns which are *very effective* when done well.

 

[CosmosMpower]

3.5 is 3.5

 

[Cawlin]

Any time you're limited to one type of shot that's a bit of a weakness. At the 3.5 level, I don't think you'll see any real trouble playing slice shots in singles or doubles.

It does get murkier as you progress though. The physics of a slice shot make it more challenging to hit it with good pace and keep it in the court. As you progress in doubles you'll find it harder and harder to keep shots away from the net player without hitting net skimming slices every time, and that's probably going to increase your errors quite a bit.

In singles there's more opportunity. If you can reliably hit the ball deep with slice that's challenging for anyone to take advantage of, and it's why you'll see it used even at the professional level.

The bottom line is to me the slice is a really good "defensive" shot for singles at most levels and 3.5- doubles. You hit it until the opponent gives you the look you want, and then you go for your "offensive" weapon to finish the point. I've not faced anyone at the 4.0 doubles level who used slice shots extensively and gave me any trouble. It's not that it can't be done, but it's technically harder than a similar quality shot with topspin.

To reiterate, as I'm sure there will be disagreement. I'm not saying that slicing is a bad shot. It is a more difficult shot to hit when you're avoiding a net player who can poach balls that aren't close to the net. Your own development may be that you can hit a great slice shot easier than a good topspin, and I'm a strong advocate of doing what works.


I should mention that I don't really think of these as slice shots. When I hear forehand slice, I'm thinking of the full swing shot, as opposed to chip/charge returns which are *very effective* when done well.

There's a lot of good stuff here, and like so many other things, a lot of dependencies... neither TS nor slice are going to be good shots in dubs if you can't keep them low over the net - looping TS will get poached just as hard as floating slice...

I do agree that having more options is better than having fewer. In lower level rec dubs in particular (below 4.5 for sure) slicers are kings and it may apply to 4.5 and 5.0 as well, I just couldn't say about that level of play because I have no personal experience either playing or watching such play.

 

[Traffic]

I will slice my FH if I think you like my TS FH with pace. There are many that like that pace and the TS kick brings the ball up into people's strike zone. A deep driving slice will make the ball bounce very close to your feet at baseline and then you have nothing to work with. It's not only a great defensive shot, it can also serve as offense for those that lack footwork and have very little concept of offense/defense.

 

[OnTheLine]

I will slice my FH if I think you like my TS FH with pace. There are many that like that pace and the TS kick brings the ball up into people's strike zone. A deep driving slice will make the ball bounce very close to your feet at baseline and then you have nothing to work with. It's not only a great defensive shot, it can also serve as offense for those that lack footwork and have very little concept of offense/defense.

Especially against an older crowd ..... all those that prefer NOT bending their knees!

 

[ShaunS]

In lower level rec dubs in particular (below 4.5 for sure) slicers are kings and it may apply to 4.5 and 5.0 as well

In my experience, I don't really recall facing many strong players who used slice forehands extensively at men's 4.0-4.5 doubles.

a lot of dependencies... neither TS nor slice are going to be good shots in dubs if you can't keep them low over the net - looping TS will get poached just as hard as floating slice...

Yeah, you can get more pace on a topspin shot without it going out, which hopefully gets it by the net player. If I'm forced to go right at the net person, I'll also go for heavy topspin because there's more vertical motion. A lot of players don't keep their eye on the ball to contact, and it ends up with them missing/hitting off center.

 

[Cawlin]

I will slice my FH if I think you like my TS FH with pace. There are many that like that pace and the TS kick brings the ball up into people's strike zone. A deep driving slice will make the ball bounce very close to your feet at baseline and then you have nothing to work with. It's not only a great defensive shot, it can also serve as offense for those that lack footwork and have very little concept of offense/defense.

Yep... besides the low bounce, you have the longer float time and the tendency for the slice to kick left or right, all of which combine to handcuff the reciever unless they have good footwork...

 

[Cawlin]

In my experience, I don't really recall facing many strong players who used slice forehands extensively at men's 4.0-4.5 doubles.

Yes I saw in your post you mentinoed that you're not considering the FH chip the same as FH slice... and I understand this... but my remark was basically about it all. I rarely see people really slicing hard off the FH wing like most of us think of BH slice. However, in my particular case, I am not very good at punishing high sitters - they have to be pretty high for me to really swing out on them, but the middle height ball, say from my belly button to my shoulder, that shot presents some difficulty for me if I try to hit it with FH TS (I know I need reps and practice, but anyway...) so with those balls, I will often slice them and attempt to hit to a very precise location, usually steeply angled and short in the court - say the return of serve comes to me as a short sitter to my FH... I'm going to FH drive slice that steep and short past the net guy, but short and off the court for the guy at the baseline who just hit a weak ROS to me...

If you include FH chips and ROS "slice", in the bucket of "FH slice" then I'd say I've seen that fairly extensively at 4.0, and I have little to no experience watching 4.5 and up rec tennis, so couldn't say about that.

I did spend some time working on a real driving FH slice, but it's very difficult to control, as you mentioned, and for me, the better option was to continue to work on my TS FH... but I still slice quite a few balls with my FH, just not deep driving ones like I do on my BH.

Yeah, you can get more pace on a topspin shot without it going out, which hopefully gets it by the net player. If I'm forced to go right at the net person, I'll also go for heavy topspin because there's more vertical motion. A lot of players don't keep their eye on the ball to contact, and it ends up with them missing/hitting off center.

Yeah, for sure on the bigger pace on the TS FH, but again, if you don't hit that very well and instead hit a very high looping TS FH, that net guy is going to be all over it... I do like the dipper TS FH right at the net guy though.

Also, I think the effect of the way the spin on the ball tends to make it deflect off of the receiver's racket is underestimated... a hard slice right at the net person will deflect downward into the net if the net person isn't prepared and doesn't adjust their racket face open... meanwhile, the same TS shot will tend to deflect upwards off the receiver's racket if they don't adjust the face closed to compensate... all of these aspects of spin in dubs are important when dealing with the net guy, and of course, for the net player to be aware of as well... I'll take heavy spin and medium pace in dubs at the rec level over no spin even with heavy pace pretty much every day of the week.

 

[ChaelAZ]

When I first started and played 3.5, like most, I was all about the power game. I *could* slice, but it wasn't a go to shot. Over the last years I have developed it as a defense and setup shot, so I probably slice a good 15% or more of shots in a match. Much depends on how well my opponent handles it too. If htye struggle with low balls and are coughing up sitters, I would probably slice more than half my shots.

 

[ShaunS]

Yes I saw in your post you mentinoed that you're not considering the FH chip the same as FH slice... and I understand this... but my remark was basically about it all.

Gotcha, I absolutely agree that's a chip shot return that works at all levels. When you're facing someone with a strong server it can be almost a requirement to counter them without being dragged out of position.

I am not very good at punishing high sitters - they have to be pretty high for me to really swing out on them, but the middle height ball, say from my belly button to my shoulder, that shot presents some difficulty for me if I try to hit it with FH TS (I know I need reps and practice, but anyway...) so with those balls, I will often slice them and attempt to hit to a very precise location, usually steeply angled and short in the court

I am right with you on this. My BH is a known disaster, and the extent that I improved my return game was to work precision into doing what you describe. I'm determined to work on a more traditional backhand next, as I feel limited on my options with that shot. I do think it's effective against a lot of players because of all the usual "slice benefits", and gives you options for playing a more vertical game bringing the server in to the court.

 

[Cashman]

I've not faced anyone at the 4.0 doubles level who used slice shots extensively and gave me any trouble. It's not that it can't be done, but it's technically harder than a similar quality shot with topspin.

I'd say this is true for hardcourts and clay. It's less true on carpet and the complete reverse on grass (where topspin is often little more than a variation).

I will slice my FH if I think you like my TS FH with pace. There are many that like that pace and the TS kick brings the ball up into people's strike zone. A deep driving slice will make the ball bounce very close to your feet at baseline and then you have nothing to work with.

This is basically the logic for grass, where topspin does little more than make the ball sit up to be pounded.

Especially against an older crowd ..... all those that prefer NOT bending their knees!

Personally I find forehand slice least useful against the older guys, because the best counter is to slice it back. Heavy topspin tends to play havoc with their continental grips.

 

[Cawlin]

Personally I find forehand slice least useful against the older guys, because the best counter is to slice it back. Heavy topspin tends to play havoc with their continental grips.

My own experience has been the opposite with old timer slicers. TS sits up for them and is already spinning the way they like for slice...

 

[Cashman]

Probably need to get more work on your TS then.

Round here the oldies all grew up on grass, so ankle high slice is NBD for them.

 

[Cawlin]

Probably need to get more work on your TS then.

Round here the oldies all grew up on grass, so ankle high slice is NBD for them.

Very real possibility! Around here I probably couldn't name 5 players who ever played on grass, let alone grew up on it.

 

[Cashman]

It's dying here - has been steadily replaced by hardcourt and artificial grass since the '80s. Still plenty of courts around if you seek it out though, at least for now.

Clay is the real rare bird in Australia - particularly proper Italian clay (as opposed to en tout cas or antbed).

 

[Traffic]

Probably need to get more work on your TS then.

Round here the oldies all grew up on grass, so ankle high slice is NBD for them.

I have played a few that can return these shots smartly and I am in awe. I have to change my tactic with them. Usually, they don't like to move as much. So I alternate pounding my TS FH deep and tehn give them toss in a shallow TS FH to move them around the court.

 

[ShaunS]

It's less true on carpet and the complete reverse on grass (where topspin is often little more than a variation).

Yeah, those surfaces are very rare in the US. I don't know if anyone has good numbers on carpet courts, I'm not aware of any, but I've never sought them out. As far as grass, I don't know if there are even 50 left.

 

[J B]

For someone with no coaching a slice is effective. If someone has received more than 3 sessions of coaching slices are eaten alive.

 

[Cawlin]

For someone with no coaching a slice is effective. If someone has received more than 3 sessions of coaching slices are eaten alive.

Ridiculous.

 

[J B]

Ridiculous.

says who? every coach worth the 60 an hour will teach you footwork which will destroy a slice. if yuo cant beat slice and you had any coaching you need a better coach. You for one havent even posted why the "pros" slice and its go zero to do with "winning" it, It changes the pace and people will over hit it long or into the net. Once you understand that, its easy. Heck go play old ladies they will give you a lesson in slice and its very easy to beat.

 

[Cawlin]

says who? every coach worth the 60 an hour will teach you footwork which will destroy a slice. if yuo cant beat slice and you had any coaching you need a better coach. You for one havent even posted why the "pros" slice and its go zero to do with "winning" it, It changes the pace and people will over hit it long or into the net. Once you understand that, its easy. Heck go play old ladies they will give you a lesson in slice and its very easy to beat.

The pros slice because it's a difficult ball to attack and to set up other shots such as an approach...

In rec tennis, handling slice is about footwork, at least you're correct about that... but that's why it's so effective - not necessarily as a winner shot, but it can be essentially a winner at lower levels like 3.5 by forcing the error. Having more options for shots at any level of the game is better than having fewer options.

Forehand slice specifically is a bit of a different beast, but it is still used now and then (other than chips, desperation shots, and drop shots) and is still situationally effective in the same ways that backhand slice is, though it tends to have a lower margin for error relative to the strengths of a solid TS FH.

 

[ShaunS]

if yuo cant beat slice and you had any coaching you need a better coach.

Since it isn't precisely clear if you mean both forehand and backhand shots, I'll try to take a generous approach to these comments. The slice, especially backhand, is a proven shot that's used by players at all levels. One Wimbledon final against Nadal, Federer hit nearly 40% of his backhands as slices to win. As covered earlier, grass is a much more effective surface, but he's still deployed the BH slice for upwards of 15% his BHs in hard court major finals too.

The pros slice because it's a difficult ball to attack and to set up other shots such as an approach...

Correct, it's the opposite of easy. It is harder to attack a good slice. If it wasn't harder then no one would use it. That's why I call it a "defensive" shot too because you slice to keep them from attacking while you look for your opening.

In rec tennis, handling slice is about footwork, at least you're correct about that... but that's why it's so effective

Footwork is key, but a lot of rec players also lack the strength & technique to generate winners from the baseline with any accuracy. By keeping the ball low and deep, you're effectively negating their ability to finish the point.

 

[Cawlin]

Since it isn't precisely clear if you mean both forehand and backhand shots, I'll try to take a generous approach to these comments.

My guess is that this guy is thinking of the loopy "trick" slice shot that bounces backwards and which 3.5 guys use to play jokes on 2.5 and 3.0 players... but even that loopy "trick" slice shot works well on drop shots if you don't loop it too high and too deep... but anyway...

 

[Cashman]

says who? every coach worth the 60 an hour will teach you footwork which will destroy a slice. if yuo cant beat slice and you had any coaching you need a better coach. You for one havent even posted why the "pros" slice and its go zero to do with "winning" it, It changes the pace and people will over hit it long or into the net. Once you understand that, its easy. Heck go play old ladies they will give you a lesson in slice and its very easy to beat.

Never played on grass, I take it?

 

[Cawlin]

Never played on grass, I take it?

Sheeet... you don't need to play on grass to know better!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Slice rules rec tennis.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/discussion-of-forehand-slice-for-strategic-applications.640833/

This.
Read that entire thread.
Then read it every 6 months, because you will not understand it at first

Lots of wisdom in this thread.
Slice is a vicious weapon.
Most 3.5 player will self-destruct against a slicer.

I know a 4.5 who hits 100% slice on both sides.

This slicer friend of yours is pure gold.
He will get you to 4.0
Slice back all his slices and practice your slice

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Let's put it this way, if there are two 3.5 players
One hits topspin and one only hits slice
my money is in the slicer every day of the week.

Slicing is KING of rec tennis.
Most 3.5 only can hit topspin, which is the easiest and most overrated shot in rec tennis.

Want to crush a 3.5 ?
Slice every ball and watch him generate 50 UE's per match

 

[J B]

The pros slice because it's a difficult ball to attack and to set up other shots such as an approach...

In rec tennis, handling slice is about footwork, at least you're correct about that... but that's why it's so effective - not necessarily as a winner shot, but it can be essentially a winner at lower levels like 3.5 by forcing the error. Having more options for shots at any level of the game is better than having fewer options.

Forehand slice specifically is a bit of a different beast, but it is still used now and then (other than chips, desperation shots, and drop shots) and is still situationally effective in the same ways that backhand slice is, though it tends to have a lower margin for error relative to the strengths of a solid TS FH.

That’s my entire point! You should be taught footwork and be told over and over about over hitting. My coach did that day one. Stop over hitting, build the point, wait for your shot then hit the winner

You said what I said. It takes pace off the ball requiring a smart return. If you don’t over hit and you have good footwork tell me how a slice is difficult to beat? You aren’t gonna pound a winner off it unless it floats but again if you are coached properly a slice is not a scary thing.

Grass really? Grass is 52 an hour per player in Florida.....

 

[J B]

Sheeet... you don't need to play on grass to know better!

Actually you need to have footwork and grasp that you can’t crush the slice. If you can’t understand that... then go get a coach who will tell you that. I rarely hit a fh slice because of that. There are much better choices.

 

[J B]

My guess is that this guy is thinking of the loopy "trick" slice shot that bounces backwards and which 3.5 guys use to play jokes on 2.5 and 3.0 players... but even that loopy "trick" slice shot works well on drop shots if you don't loop it too high and too deep... but anyway...

Nope. And I can usually hit topspin back that they frame. It’s call getting to the ball and bending your knees. Slices are like flat serves less than 110mph. Great against guys that are self taught or new. But most 4.0s and a lot of 3.5s will destroy it unless you can place it on a dime. Which if you can place shots any shot you can place is gonna be good

Show me a video of you bouncing the ball backward 5 time in a row, if 3.5s do it so much. Most of them can barely drop shot let alone trick shot.

 

[Cawlin]

That’s my entire point! You should be taught footwork and be told over and over about over hitting. My coach did that day one. Stop over hitting, build the point, wait for your shot then hit the winner

You said what I said. It takes pace off the ball requiring a smart return. If you don’t over hit and you have good footwork tell me how a slice is difficult to beat? You aren’t gonna pound a winner off it unless it floats but again if you are coached properly a slice is not a scary thing.

Grass really? Grass is 52 an hour per player in Florida.....

Actually you need to have footwork and grasp that you can’t crush the slice. If you can’t understand that... then go get a coach who will tell you that. I rarely hit a fh slice because of that. There are much better choices.

Nope. And I can usually hit topspin back that they frame. It’s call getting to the ball and bending your knees. Slices are like flat serves less than 110mph. Great against guys that are self taught or new. But most 4.0s and a lot of 3.5s will destroy it unless you can place it on a dime. Which if you can place shots any shot you can place is gonna be good

Show me a video of you bouncing the ball backward 5 time in a row, if 3.5s do it so much. Most of them can barely drop shot let alone trick shot.

So you sound like a (quasi-literate) baseline basher type... how old are you? How long have you been playing? What's your NTRP rating? What's your coaching/development program?

Also: