Time to get rid of fighting in NHL

[topspin]

Watching the hockey during the Olympics was just amazing. This is how hockey should be played. The same rules should be applied to the NHL. It's time to adopt the International rule on icing too. It will save a lot of injuries.

But in particular, the rule on fighting during the Olympics should be adopted by the NHL. The rule is a 5 minute major penalty and game misconduct. To still allow fighting in a sport is just absurd. It's time to move on from the old way of thinking and allow the sport to shine.

Oh I'm sure many of you will disagree. But you're wrong!

 

[jmverdugo]

then better make that puck thingy easier to follow by the tv audience ... seriously after my second beer the only thing I am waiting for is the fight to start. But I am not really a follower, only watch it when I am visiting a friend of mine.

 

[El Diablo]

No fighting in the NHL!! Next you'll want to eliminate the crashes from NASCAR.

 

[NickH87]

Fighting makes for good highlights. Hockey isnt very popular in the US, dont take away what people actually sit there and watch on the highlights.

 

[CCNM]

I saw a few scuffles in the (Olympic) games I watched. They didn't last very long, however

 

[r2473]

Let's ditch those hockey jersey's too.

 

[topspin]

Fighting makes for good highlights. Hockey isnt very popular in the US, dont take away what people actually sit there and watch on the highlights.

This is my point exactly. If they get rid of fighting, then the true nature of hockey will shine through. It will help get more viewers.

I still do not believe hockey will ever make it in the US for the simple reason that there it's one sport where a lot of the players are not Americans. The US loves football, nascar, baseball, basketball because they can relate more with the players and there is more tradition involved. That's a whole other issue though.

My point is first to improve hockey by adopting rules that exist already around the world. Let's not wait for someone to get killed during a fight before deciding it's time to do something. Plus, do we really need or want players like Philly's Carcillo in the game? An emphatic NO!

 

[SuperFly]

Heresy!!!!

 

[topspin]

^Perfect example of the attitude that needs to change.

 

[Hidious]

I could agree with eliminating goons and staged fight but nothing beats a good fight in the heat of the action.

How do you respond to a cheap shot? With another cheap shot? You'll see more Bertuzzi, MacSorley type of disgraceful incidents. You'd understand if you played hockey.

 

[topspin]

Cheap shots also need to be eliminated. But to go and beat the living daylights out of a guy for a cheap shot is not a solution. It only adds fuel to the fire. You have to penalize and suspend players guilty of cheap shots. Some nice hefty fines would not hurt as well. Not petty fines like what Serena got. I'm talking about fines with some meat.

 

[hollywood9826]

The fighting in Hockey a system that allows the players to police their own. Notice in NBA the refs get involved alot more by throwing the quick technical. Watch the NBA in the 80's and 90's those guys policed their own also. And there was alot less incidents of mass bedlam. The one on one scuffles are good its let the players get over thier issues and not have them linger

 

[pabletion]

Oh, dont worry, it will change after some poor sap gets a really good solid punch somewhere around the head and either gets a serious injury or gets killed. Thats whats gonna take, and dont say its not possible.

 

[tricky]

The fighting in Hockey a system that allows the players to police their own.

Yup. Take away fighting; you take away the enforcers that protect your star players. Self regulation.

 

[topspin]

^Take away the fighters and you take away the players with little to no hockey talent and you replace them with talented players; thereby making the game more exciting and interesting to watch. If you want to watch fighting, go to a UFC event or a boxing event.

 

[mtommer]

Cheap shots also need to be eliminated.

Nope.

But to go and beat the living daylights out of a guy for a cheap shot is not a solution.

Absolutely it is. It's the best possible solution. It's the solution that tells the other guy who thought he was the man that he isn't the man after all.

 

[topspin]

^You seriously condoning cheap shots?

And you're just way off about retaliation being a solution to a cheap shot. It only leads to counter-retaliations and so on.

 

[Sumo]

^Take away the fighters and you take away the players with little to no hockey talent and you replace them with talented players; thereby making the game more exciting and interesting to watch. If you want to watch fighting, go to a UFC event or a boxing event.

Have you ever played any sports other than tennis?

 

[topspin]

^Here comes the analyzers....

If you must know, yes I have, lots. My sports experience has nothing to do with the topic. Eventually someone is going to get seriously hurt in a fight. There is no justification for it. Oh I know where you're going with it. Well think again and clearly about the issue.

 

[CanadianChic]

I don't have a problem with fighting as long as it is consentual. Cheap shots need to go though.

 

[tricky]

Take away the fighters and you take away the players with little to no hockey talent and you replace them with talented players

Not really . . . even the "goons" are fantastic hockey players. If anything, removing fighting altogether might make the pro game even slower and dirtier, because people now know that you can't be decked for not getting caught.

 

[mtommer]

^You seriously condoning cheap shots?

Sorry, no, I meant only that cheap shots aren't allowed now. Cheap shots are simply part of the game.

And you're just way off about retaliation being a solution to a cheap shot. It only leads to counter-retaliations and so on.

Again, part of the game, but also, not nearly as much as you might think. When a player takes a cheap shot at another player, often the teammates of the offending player don't stand behind them, or, only up to a point.

The recent Yahoo! sports story about the girl basketball player who decked the other who pushed her, if I were the referee, I would have given both players a technical but no ejection. If the pushing girl's coach complained, I simply would have told him that his player got exactly what she deserved for her cheap shot.

 

[mucat]

then better make that puck thingy easier to follow by the tv audience ... seriously after my second beer the only thing I am waiting for is the fight to start. But I am not really a follower, only watch it when I am visiting a friend of mine.

This is why studying of history is important, haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75v0Eh_FikE
Imagine if they do this to tennis...

 

[nhat8121]

yes, fighting needs to go...play hockey, not fight.

 

[Cruzer]

Reducing fighting could be accomplished by reducing the number of skaters allowed to dress for a game by one. That would eliminate essentially all the cement heads that can't play hockey and serve no purpose other than to fight each other.

The downside of trying to eliminate fighting is the better players (Crosby, Ovechkin, et al) would get hacked and whacked even more than they currently do without the protection of a team enforcer.

The Euro players don't fight anyway but they will spear, slash, slew foot, and low bridge opponents all day long.

 

[hankash]

Well if you eliminate fighting, then the goons will come out in full force. I'm sure some goons would not mind getting paid to be goons and would be more than willing to serve a suspension and lose some money than have someone bigger and badder punch their lights out for a cheap shot and lose their pride at the same time on television.

I think the self enforced system regulates the goons already. Sometimes they go after guys that bend the rules, but is not necessarily a penalty. Who would enforce that, if that were the case? If a 210 lb guy is going to send a bone crushing check to a 170lb guy to send a message, then I hope that 170 lb guy has a 230 lb guy on his team to defer the 210 lb guy from doing it again.

Let's not forget that perfectly clean hits can result in a bad injury; if no one is there to regulate the bigger guys going after the little guys, then you'll see a lot more skilled players hitting the IR.

Take Ovechkin going after Jagr during the Olympics. Clean hit, but the intent to put the hurt on a soft finesse player like Jagr is there.

 

[topspin]

The theme for the pro-fight argument here seems to be that of two negatives make a right. So it's ok to keep fighting in the game because of cheap shots? Nahh I don't buy that. They can get rid of both. They just suspended a Montreal player for a hit during the San Jose game the other night. They did so after the game. Yup, they got videotapes and are able to assess punishments after the game. Now in this particular case, there was no intent to injure, and the hit was not that bad at all, but it lead to a player falling on the boards. There are other cases where there is clear intent to injure and no suspension is handed out. So for the plan to work, the league has to get its act straight first. And if there really is a dirty hit, the suspension should be more severe than just 4 games and it should be accompanied by a really hefty fine. You'll then see the dirty hits slowly disappear. But the league won't have the guts to take such action. I don't really believe they will get rid of fighting; at least not until someone gets severely hurt or even killed. That was not the purpose of this thread. The purpose was just to say the the Olympic rules produced some really nice hockey. Yes, I know they had the top players in the world. But I believe the nhl hockey would still be much improved if they adopt the same rules.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

NHL should get rid of the goons if it wants to be taken seriously. The only way to do that is to get rid of some teams and get rid of the untalented guys who are just allowed to skate around decking people. There's no way to totally get rid of fighting, so the thing to do is get rid of the source of most of the fights, the thuggish goonery the NHL allows.

Stuff like this should not be allowed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_F7LEZ78_o

^Take away the fighters and you take away the players with little to no hockey talent and you replace them with talented players; thereby making the game more exciting and interesting to watch. If you want to watch fighting, go to a UFC event or a boxing event.

Agreed.

 

[CCNM]

Or put a time limit on the fights-the last hockey game I saw live there were a few fights that lasted more than a minute. If I were the ref I would have broken it up after the minute was up.

Also that video that JBF posted-is that player ok???? I hope that didn't ruin his career....

 

[Hidious]

topspin, you have some pretty good arguments.

But, suppose your opponent purposely checks your goalie. How do you retaliate? The good way to do so is to drop the mits and punch him in the face. If fighting is not allowed, the only way to retaliate is to cheap shot the guy. No?

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

topspin, you have some pretty good arguments.

But, suppose your opponent purposely checks your goalie. How do you retaliate? The good way to do so is to drop the mits and punch him in the face. If fighting is not allowed, the only way to retaliate is to cheap shot the guy. No?

How come lacrosse doesn't have fighting? Or soccer even? There's better ways of handling situations than dropping gloves and pounding each other like a bunch of uncivilized heathens.

 

[mucat]

How come lacrosse doesn't have fighting? Or soccer even? There's better ways of handling situations than dropping gloves and pounding each other like a bunch of uncivilized heathens.

I don't know about lacrosse but with all the diving in soccer, I don't think it is a good example.

 

[topspin]

topspin, you have some pretty good arguments.

But, suppose your opponent purposely checks your goalie. How do you retaliate? The good way to do so is to drop the mits and punch him in the face. If fighting is not allowed, the only way to retaliate is to cheap shot the guy. No?

I appreciate that you find my arguments valid.

Now just read what you wrote: "drop the mits and punch him in the face". Just think about that for a bit. Think about what it implies; the pain, the brutality. That is something that this world has far too much of. So we do not need it in our sports. It's a criminal act on the street for a reason. And to me, it's just as criminal in the realm of entertainment.

But to answer your question, the cheap shots need to be dealt with by the league and the players union. There was a lot of talk about this after Savard of Boston got hit by a really cheap shot last night. Some were saying that they should impost an immediate 5 min major penalty for ANY shot to to head, intentional or not. And if intentional, there should automatically be a game misconduct and a stiff suspension. I think this would go a long way to get rid of the cheap shots.

 

[max]

I used to play hockey; fighting is needed.

 

[Richard Pur]

After a long layoff of hockey (I stopped playing organized hockey around 16 - before it became too violent), I focused on the more serene sports of tennis and golf. Sports where you need to keep composure to perform.

Well, at 48, my body not able to perform certain body movements for tennis (shoulder impingement and pinched nerve in lower neck that comes and goes), I started skating again and am actually playing no check hockey. Hockey is too emotional to totally get rid of fighting and goon hockey, however, there are ways to limit it:

1. A bigger penalty (major penalty which leads to a longer power play, i.e. goals for the other team, and automatic game misconduct.). So as previously said, adopt the international rule here.

2. Increase the rink size to be consistent with the international size. More skating room for the truly talented to skate around the slower goons. You'll still have aggressive fast skaters though. Look at Ovechkin.

3. For players who injure someone with a cheap shot, suspend and fine them, yes. But if you truly injure someone, have the suspension match the time that the injured player is out on IR.


For those who are younger, though, let me tell you, the game has been cleaned up considerably since the 80's and 90's. Last night I saw a 1985 game between the Blackhawks and the North Stars. By today's rules there would have been a penalty every 20 seconds. Those guys were being hooked, interfered with, and held like you wouldn't believe. It was a playoff game but still it was really ugly. If I didn't get such a kick out of seeing an older Hawk game and some of the players of that time, I would have shut it off.

The talented players are able to skate today. The state of hockey is really good and on the rise in my opinion. The rinks in the Chicago area are full all the time. That does have something to do with the recent success of the Blackhawks too though.

My $0.02.

Rich

 

[FastFreddy]

Yes

I used to play hockey; fighting is needed.

If you get rid of fighting then you will have euro stick fighting. I think the NHL should get rid of plastic face guards. This way those wimps who like to use the stick get a punch in the face. Instead these players get into fights the other player first must remove his helment to punch him. If you are going to wear one of those take it off before you fight. I forgot those players will not fight only high stick you. PS: goons have not ben in the league since the 70's- 80's. The only other way to make hockey suck is to get rid of fighting and play on a euro 200x100 rink. Anyone who tells me to ban fighting has never played!

 

[CCNM]

Wayne Gretzky for NHL commissioner!!!
(random thought)

 

[Nellie]

I agree one hundred percent with the original poster. It is a logical fallacy to say we should keep fighting because it has always been that way. If you want fights - go to MMA/boxing. I have played, watch, and enjoy hockey - it is beautiful and fun game, and the checks are great. Hockey is never going to be a non-contact sport. It is just wrong, however, to have poor skating, low skilled goons on a roster to "protect" your players from other goons. I have never met a good hockey player how did not like to mix it up when needed, and I have never met a true hockey fan who liked the fights more than the on-ice action.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

If you get rid of fighting then you will have euro stick fighting. I think the NHL should get rid of plastic face guards. This way those wimps who like to use the stick get a punch in the face. Instead these players get into fights the other player first must remove his helment to punch him. If you are going to wear one of those take it off before you fight. I forgot those players will not fight only high stick you. PS: goons have not ben in the league since the 70's- 80's. The only other way to make hockey suck is to get rid of fighting and play on a euro 200x100 rink. Anyone who tells me to ban fighting has never played!

Well that's just dumb. The guys wear face guards so that they don't get nailed in the eye and blinded by the puck flying at 100 mph.

"Those who say get rid of fighting have never played hockey" Ok what does that mean? Why is hockey that much different from any other sport that guys have to pound each other like a bunch of barbarians? What's the difference between hockey and other sports? There's other ways to regulate, fighting is not necessary.

 

[mtommer]

Why is hockey that much different from any other sport that guys have to pound each other like a bunch of barbarians?

It's not. Fortunately it's simply one of the sports left that allows men to be men. And yes, going after each other "like a bunch of barbarians" is what it means to be a man. If you can't take it, tune in to another sport. All the reasons posted for getting rid of fighting in hockey means boxing and MMA have to go too. It really does. However, those sports aren't going anywhere and neither is fighting in hockey. Thank goodness.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

It's not. Fortunately it's simply one of the sports left that allows men to be men. And yes, going after each other "like a bunch of barbarians" is what it means to be a man. If you can't take it, tune in to another sport. All the reasons posted for getting rid of fighting in hockey means boxing and MMA have to go too. It really does. However, those sports aren't going anywhere and neither is fighting in hockey. Thank goodness.

I thought it was called assault; I'm pretty sure if I handled all of my disputes like that I'd be locked up by now. :-?

If "men being men" means stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9RE9RGrVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnP18StCoHA

And the countless other cheap shots that happens every night in the NHL, then fine. But if hockey wants to grow and progress, than it's my opinion that hockey should be done away with, or at the very least regulated more harsly with min 1 gm suspension for those who choose to fight.

 

[FastFreddy]

Fighting

Well that's just dumb. The guys wear face guards so that they don't get nailed in the eye and blinded by the puck flying at 100 mph.

"Those who say get rid of fighting have never played hockey" Ok what does that mean? Why is hockey that much different from any other sport that guys have to pound each other like a bunch of barbarians? What's the difference between hockey and other sports? There's other ways to regulate, fighting is not necessary.

It means you never played. It's funny how players can control their sticks no slashing, crosschecking, spearing, hooking after getting a few punches in the face and head. Some players love to fight some fight a little and some never will drop the gloves it's up to the player. It teaches players not to play dirty or you will get dropped.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

It means you never played. It's funny how players can control their sticks no slashing, crosschecking, spearing, hooking after getting a few punches in the face and head. Some players love to fight some fight a little and some never will drop the gloves it's up to the player. It teaches players not to play dirty or you will get dropped.

In basketball guys play dirty too. Same with football. They have their ways of handling it, which doesn't involve dropping gloves like a bunch of kids and brawling.

 

[FastFreddy]

Fighting

In basketball guys play dirty too. Same with football. They have their ways of handling it, which doesn't involve dropping gloves like a bunch of kids and brawling.

Different sports, ever get hit a metal stick on the back of your neck I have. Guess what after that fight it never hapened again. Baseball, football and basketball should leave the fighting to hockey players. Only thing better than a hockey fight is MMA fight.

 

[hankash]

There is not much to be gained by suspending a goon. Take that Cooke hit on Savard. Say they did suspend Cooke for the same amount of time that Savard is out; Pittsburgh does not lose much while Boston does. Maybe to curb these activities, the team should be penalized. This way, teams will think twice about carrying cheap shot artist, and it could ruin their chemistry.

Say Crosby or Bylsma (Pit's coach) got a paid suspension for the time Savard was out because of Cooke's hit. That would not only make Cooke look really bad, but teams would think twice about carrying him if they were going to lose an important piece of their team. Yeah it may not be fair, but that is one way the goonery could be reduced. If Cook gets suspended and a fine, he may be able to afford it given players' salaries these days.

They need to put some Hammurabi laws into place if they take out fighting.

With regards to fighting not be allowed in the street because it's assault, it's a different case and scenario. Checking a guy in the street would be considered assault as well, so different rules apply. When guys sign up for the game, they know what it entails.

 

[mtommer]

In basketball guys play dirty too. Same with football. They have their ways of handling it, which doesn't involve dropping gloves like a bunch of kids and brawling.

Yeah, they do. And how they handle it is exactly the same way that they do in hockey, they're just not so obvious about it. Football is nice because hitting IS allowed to begin with. You'll often see players lay out the "offender" from the previous play. In basketball it's elbows to the face as you swing around, trips, etc. Officials miss this stuff all the time.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Yeah, they do. And how they handle it is exactly the same way that they do in hockey, they're just not so obvious about it. Football is nice because hitting IS allowed to begin with. You'll often see players lay out the "offender" from the previous play. In basketball it's elbows to the face as you swing around, trips, etc. Officials miss this stuff all the time.

But no fighting for the most part. So why is hockey so different? I still haven't seen a good enough reason, it all just looks like hockey players are more sensitive when they get hit than b-ball and football players are, I guess. :-?

And no I haven't played hockey, but I've played football. I've been blindsided and cheap shotted in football games before. You just get up, say some words, and move on and look for the right chance to get your retribution in a clean way. But it didn't result in fisticuffs. Same w/ b-ball. I've been knocked on my back while driving the lane quite a few times. That stuff happens all the time in b-ball. But it usually doesn't result in fisticuffs. So I ask again, explain why hockey is so much more different that fighting is necessary?

 

[hankash]

But no fighting for the most part. So why is hockey so different? I still haven't seen a good enough reason, it all just looks like hockey players are more sensitive when they get hit than b-ball and football players are, I guess. :-?

And no I haven't played hockey, but I've played football. I've been blindsided and cheap shotted in football games before. You just get up, say some words, and move on and look for the right chance to get your retribution in a clean way. But it didn't result in fisticuffs. Same w/ b-ball. I've been knocked on my back while driving the lane quite a few times. That stuff happens all the time in b-ball. But it usually doesn't result in fisticuffs. So I ask again, explain why hockey is so much more different that fighting is necessary?

I will say this; I think part of the reason it's allowed in hockey is because the players are white. I think if they were African American, people would frown on them like they did on Ron Artest a few years back. Racism is still a major problem in America today.

 

[mucat]

But no fighting for the most part. So why is hockey so different? I still haven't seen a good enough reason, it all just looks like hockey players are more sensitive when they get hit than b-ball and football players are, I guess. :-?

And no I haven't played hockey, but I've played football. I've been blindsided and cheap shotted in football games before. You just get up, say some words, and move on and look for the right chance to get your retribution in a clean way. But it didn't result in fisticuffs. Same w/ b-ball. I've been knocked on my back while driving the lane quite a few times. That stuff happens all the time in b-ball. But it usually doesn't result in fisticuffs. So I ask again, explain why hockey is so much more different that fighting is necessary?

Because it is much more dangerous in hockey. You have speed + size + weapon (stick) + puck and everything flying around. Even pond hockey can be dangerous if someone got hit by the hockey or stick. A dirty hit can end a career in hockey, heck, even legal hits can be dangerous (Lindros).

Like any other sport, you really have to play the game to appreciate it. I thought we tennis player should understand this by now.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Because it is much more dangerous in hockey. You have speed + size + weapon (stick) + puck and everything flying around. Even pond hockey can be dangerous if someone got hit by the hockey or stick. A dirty hit can end a career in hockey, heck, even legal hits can be dangerous (Lindros).

Like any other sport, you really have to play the game to appreciate it. I thought we tennis player should understand this by now.

That's not the case in football? 250 lb linebackers running at a RB full speed. Violent hits happen every game, heck damn near every drive in football, yet you don't see the fighting.