Tsonga bad gamesmanship on the last point of the match??

[Federer_pilon]

I know it was a crucial point but do you still think that was bad?

Tsonga's shot landed near the sideline. The out call came late but Nadal kept playing. I'm pretty sure the call came after Nadal hit the overhead but before the ball landed on the other side. Tsonga was nowhere near the overhead and it would have been a clear winner. Even if Tsonga's challenge on his previous shot was successful, do you think it would have been fair to replay the point?

 

[Fee]

The ball was called out before Nadal hit the overhead, and Tsonga is not the first player to challenge a call on match point. There was nothing wrong with the way this match ended.

 

[gj011]

He did exactly the same thing in AO finals. Novak hammered an easy ball from Tsonga that was called out. Tsonga would lose the point if ball was in or out no difference, and he still challenges.
Bad gamesmanship for sure.

 

[Rhino]

nah it was just his last chance, lots of people do this now we have the challenge system. The only thing I don't like about it is that it interrupts the flow of the victory a bit because the last point is played and then they have to stand around looking at a screen instead of celebrating.

 

[Federer_pilon]

ok i'm actually more concerned about whether or not the point should have been replayed (had the challenge been good) than about the challenge itself.

 

[Federer_pilon]

it's different challenging on match point when you obviously had no chance to get to the ball than when u actually have a chance to get it back...

 

[Morrissey]

I know it was a crucial point but do you still think that was bad?

Tsonga's shot landed near the sideline. The out call came late but Nadal kept playing. I'm pretty sure the call came after Nadal hit the overhead but before the ball landed on the other side. Tsonga was nowhere near the overhead and it would have been a clear winner. Even if Tsonga's challenge on his previous shot was successful, do you think it would have been fair to replay the point?

The "Frenchie" in him came out in that point.

 

[zagor]

He was just grasping for straws there,you shouldn't make a big deal out of it.

 

[tennis08tarheels]

No. Just no.

 

[Vision84]

I seem to remember Tursonov doing it at Queens last year challenging like 3 times in a row when he was about to lose and the balls weren't even close.

 

[tacou]

uhhh no. if his shot had been good, but had been called out, it doesn't matter what nadal did. the out call means the point ended when tsonga's shot landed out, but had it been in you replay the point because nadal's overhead wouldn't count. it's not poor sportsmanship at all...

 

[Morrissey]

I seem to remember Tursonov doing it at Queens last year challenging like 3 times in a row when he was about to lose and the balls weren't even close.

That's not right and a simple case of being a bad mood about losing and just ruining the victor's parade. "If I can't be happy I'll make your win less enjoyable in the process."

 

[eagle]

If the ball was clearly and obviously out, e.g., at least 2-3 feet out, and he calls for a review, that would be outrageously a case of being a sore loser.

Thanks,
eagle

 

[caesar66]

I seem to remember Tursonov doing it at Queens last year challenging like 3 times in a row when he was about to lose and the balls weren't even close.

That's not right and a simple case of being a bad mood about losing and just ruining the victor's parade. "If I can't be happy I'll make your win less enjoyable in the process."

I think it depends on who's doing it. I can see Tursunov doing it for laughs and the opponent maybe getting a kick out of it. If hewitt or roddick did that they would be crucified as bad sports (at least on here).

 

[Sentinel]

Hey, wasn't that ball not more than one millimeter off the line. iirc, there was almost just a hair between the ball and the sideline as shown by Hawkeye.

Recall also, that Hawkeye has an average error of 3.7 mm or so (can't recall exact figure), which is more than the distance of the ball from line.

 

[Fedace]

I know it was a crucial point but do you still think that was bad?

Tsonga's shot landed near the sideline. The out call came late but Nadal kept playing. I'm pretty sure the call came after Nadal hit the overhead but before the ball landed on the other side. Tsonga was nowhere near the overhead and it would have been a clear winner. Even if Tsonga's challenge on his previous shot was successful, do you think it would have been fair to replay the point?

Tsonga knew the ball was out but he had challenges remaining so why not use them. Like Jimmy Arias said in the past, why not use it, you can't take it home with you.

 

[Rhino]

Hey, wasn't that ball not more than one millimeter off the line. iirc, there was almost just a hair between the ball and the sideline as shown by Hawkeye.

Exactly, it was very close, Tsonga would've been a fool not to check it.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

I'm not a fan of Tsonga's demonstrative behavior on the court and yes that was poor gamesmanship as he would have no chance of winning that point even if it was in.

 

[tzinc]

Tsonga is a jerk his fans won't admit it!

 

[Sentinel]

Tsonga is a jerk his fans won't admit it!

lol, if you admit it you aren't a fan, right ?

 

[hyogen]

no. dude, did you SEE the closeup of the line call? the shot cam or whatever.....

it was like a millimeter out. EXTREMELY close.

 

[Zaragoza]

The last challenge was ok, it was really close. I just don´t like how he celebrates some points raising his arms and acting like a boxer towards the crowd. I like players who show emotions but I think he crosses the line doing that.

 

[TheTruth]

I think it was ok to challenge the call since it was so close, but his on court attitude is wearing on me a bit. It's going to make it hard for me to root for him!

 

[Morrissey]

I think it was ok to challenge the call since it was so close, but his on court attitude is wearing on me a bit. It's going to make it hard for me to root for him!

At least we didn't get to see that thing he does after he wins a match anymore. That was fine in Australia, it was his coming out party but now it's too much. But hey, to each their own.

 

[Shaolin]

He did exactly the same thing in AO finals. Novak hammered an easy ball from Tsonga that was called out. Tsonga would lose the point if ball was in or out no difference, and he still challenges.
Bad gamesmanship for sure.

Exactly right. It would've been pathetic if Tsonga forced a replay of that point if it was called in by shot spot. He would have had a .0001% chance against an overhead from Nadal at that place on the court. I thought it was weak when he did it at the AO too.

 

[tacou]

1) What is his on court attitude? Actually being enthusiastic? Other than Roddick and Nadal every tennis player is a bore more or less. Everyone says they want Davydenko out of the top 10 but Tsonga has what? Too much passion for the sport? Seriously...

2) I feel like some of you don't understand the challenge system. First of all, Tsonga's shot was out by a milimeter or so, so it wasn't a pointless challenge. Second of all, once the ball had been called out it doesn't matter what Nadal did. It got called out so the point was over, it would've been unfortunate for Nadal to play the point over since he clearly had it in the bag, but that's not Tsonga's fault it is the line persons.

 

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

Wait ^^, Im confused, if the ball was out, it would be Nadal's point, and if it was in, and Nadal smashes it for a winner, its still Nadal's point, so...I didnt see the match, but just from what has been said...

 

[Moose Malloy]

some of these comments are rather strange. pre-challenge system, haven't we seen many situations where someone was in control of a point(even having a sitter) & then the linesman made an out call that the umpire overruled, which then forces the point to be repayed? Players usually look annoyed in that situation, but then just go back to business, they know the rules.

Its like a lot of people posting here haven't seen much pro tennis before or something.

and the ball was close, Tsonga would have been a fool not tp challenge, this has nothing to do with gamesmanship, that ball was not clearly out, its irrelevant what Nadal would have done with the overhead, rules are rules, you replay the point if an overrule or correct challenge is made. I bet he would have challenged even if it was not match point, depending on the score.

This is not a flaw of the challenge system, any more than it is a flaw of the overrule system.

 

[hyogen]

Wait ^^, Im confused, if the ball was out, it would be Nadal's point, and if it was in, and Nadal smashes it for a winner, its still Nadal's point, so...I didnt see the match, but just from what has been said...

the ball was extremely close.

in the huge close up it was like a couple millimeters from touching the line.

 

[tacou]

Wait ^^, Im confused, if the ball was out, it would be Nadal's point, and if it was in, and Nadal smashes it for a winner, its still Nadal's point, so...I didnt see the match, but just from what has been said...

no, because when the ball was called out the point ended. so technically, the smash never happened. if it had actually been in, they'd have to replay the point.

if nadal had hit a winner that was called out, but was actually in, then it's nadal's point. but that wasn't the case.

 

[plain jane]

mountain out of a molehill....

 

[shawn1122]

Look at it this way, if Nadal had hit the ball out after that line call and Tsonga challenged and lets say it was actually in..should nadal lose the point for hitting the smash out after the out call? Should he win the point for getting the smash in after the line call? Should he get the point just because it was an easy putaway?

Basically what im saying is the point is over when the linesperson calls out, it wouldnt matter if Nadal caught the ball on his racket and proceeded to rip it to shreds and consume the pieces after the out call, once its called out, the point is over.

So again, just because it seems like an easy putaway or just because Nadal smashed it hard and unreturnable after the out call doesnt mean its gamesmanship, anything can happen while the ball is still in play, for all we know if Nadal didn't get the comfort of hearing an out call he may have shanked that easy putaway into the stands

 

[Federer_pilon]

Exactly, it was very close, Tsonga would've been a fool not to check it.

The point is not that it was close. The point is he had no chance whatsoever to get the that overhead even if the previous shot was in.

 

[Federer_pilon]

Look at it this way, if Nadal had hit the ball out after that line call and Tsonga challenged and lets say it was actually in..should nadal lose the point for hitting the smash out after the out call? Should he win the point for getting the smash in after the line call? Should he get the point just because it was an easy putaway?

Basically what im saying is the point is over when the linesperson calls out, it wouldnt matter if Nadal caught the ball on his racket and proceeded to rip it to shreds and consume the pieces after the out call, once its called out, the point is over.

So again, just because it seems like an easy putaway or just because Nadal smashed it hard and unreturnable after the out call doesnt mean its gamesmanship, anything can happen while the ball is still in play, for all we know if Nadal didn't get the comfort of hearing an out call he may have shanked that easy putaway into the stands

Well we've seen points not replayed on many occasions when a call is overturned by a challenge right? It's up to the umpire to make a good judgement on whether the point should be replayed or if the point should be awarded to one player.

 

[Federer_pilon]

Well we've seen points not replayed on many occasions when a call is overturned by a challenge right? or have we? I'm not sure how it is different from ...say when the umpire overules a call. Remember that point in the Monaco vs Canas match? Canas's shot was called out but the umpire overuled it. However, he still gave the point to Canas because he thought Monaco had to chance to get the ball back. Is this any different? Does anyone know? lol I really thought that it's up to the umpire to make a good judgement on whether the point should be replayed or if the point should be awarded to one player. I could be wrong...

 

[Moose Malloy]

Well we've seen points not replayed on many occasions when a call is overturned by a challenge right?

Not in that type of situation. When the ball is still in play, you always replay the point if a bad call is made during the course of it that is either overruled or challenged correctly.

If a player hits a clean winner, that is called out(when the opponent is nowhere near it) & then challenges to see that it was in, then they don't replay the point.

This is different, Nadal hit no clean winner at all. The umpire can't decide what 'might have' happened regardless of how unlikely him missing that next shot would be, once an out call is made the point is over, everything after that point is irrelevant.

what you & others are suggesting is against the rules, & the umpire could get reprimanded if he did what you suggest. its not his job to say "well you wouldn't have gotten that next shot anyway if that out call wasn't made."

He can't go above the rules.

Like I said before I've seen stuff similar to this happen so many times when it was just an overrule, not a challenge(haven't we heard that familiar phrase from commentators, 'oh so & so was so lucky to get that overrule, the other guy was in control of the point, he had no chance to win it, etc, etc now they have to replay it)

 

[tacou]

^ yes, end of thread.

 

[Vision84]

I didn't see it but Nadal could have missed the overhead.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u7MQQ34Z1TU