Use backswing to help timing

[johnmccabe]

I was talking to a friend about hitting late sometimes on groundies. He said I should try matching my take back with ball travel. A rhythm different from what I'm used to. After opponent contact, immediately turn shoulder (early prep but not the take back or backswing I'm talking about). From there, the ball goes up crossing the net and the hitting hand goes up and towards the back to match the ball flight. When the ball drops down into the bounce, the racquet head drops down with the ball. Ball bounces and racquet swings forward.

I normally only try to time the racquet drop depending on the speed and bounce location of the incoming ball. Never paid attention to the timing of the take back. His suggestion makes sense in terms of giving the brain more time to calibrate during the ball flight and start the swing earlier. He said if I do this, my timing will be more consistent when the incoming ball speed varies a lot.

Looking into pros. Some of them do it to some extent. Others hold racquet head up longer presumably for faster swing. I wonder how much of that extra racquet head speed benefits vs. the risk of waiting too long and ending up with a rushed late swing, at rec level.

Is this a well known tip? Or it's no good?

 

[Curious]

The problem is the primitive brain of a low level rec player takes longer to register, process and react to the incoming ball’s information until the bounce hence prefers to freeze and wait.

 

[johnmccabe]

The problem is the primitive brain of a low level rec player takes longer to register, process and react to the incoming ball’s information until the bounce hence prefers to freeze and wait.

it certainly can be trained and improved. question is how..

 

[Curious]

it certainly can be trained and improved. question is how..

Sounds like repetition, trial and error and autocorrection.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Friends don’t let friends teach tennis.

 

[nyta2]

I was talking to a friend about hitting late sometimes on groundies. He said I should try matching my take back with ball travel. A rhythm different from what I'm used to. After opponent contact, immediately turn shoulder (early prep but not the take back or backswing I'm talking about). From there, the ball goes up crossing the net and the hitting hand goes up and towards the back to match the ball flight. When the ball drops down into the bounce, the racquet head drops down with the ball. Ball bounces and racquet swings forward.

I normally only try to time the racquet drop depending on the speed and bounce location of the incoming ball. Never paid attention to the timing of the take back. His suggestion makes sense in terms of giving the brain more time to calibrate during the ball flight and start the swing earlier. He said if I do this, my timing will be more consistent when the incoming ball speed varies a lot.

Looking into pros. Some of them do it to some extent. Others hold racquet head up longer presumably for faster swing. I wonder how much of that extra racquet head speed benefits vs. the risk of waiting too long and ending up with a rushed late swing, at rec level.

Is this a well known tip? Or it's no good?

i try to do this... i think i first learned/try this, listening/reading oscar wegner's lessons
challenge for me is when playing folks that hit a bit faster/deeper than i'm used to....
"early is better than late, on time is better than early" -general universal truth
another key for me was being able to take varying lengths of backswing... many people only have the timing/feel for a big long backswing, and have trouble adjusting to something smaller/shorter.

 

[johnmccabe]

i try to do this... i think i first learned/try this, listening/reading oscar wegner's lessons
challenge for me is when playing folks that hit a bit faster/deeper than i'm used to....
"early is better than late, on time is better than early" -general universal truth
another key for me was being able to take varying lengths of backswing... many people only have the timing/feel for a big long backswing, and have trouble adjusting to something smaller/shorter.

Sounds good. I'll give it a try for a while and see what happens. I've learned to use smaller swing to counter faster ball. hoping to use my normal swing, fairly compact already, in most cases. But not getting consistently good timing. That's actually how the conversation started.

 

[user92626]

@johnmccabe​

I think you're on the right path. We all need a good timing for actions. I'm still learning it and I think it's the only thing I've been trying to hone throughout my tennis years.

"After opponent contact, immediately turn shoulder (early prep but not the take back or backswing I'm talking about)"

I think you also need to raise the racket as you turn the shoulder.

 

[Curious]

many people only have the timing/feel for a big long backswing, and have trouble adjusting to something smaller/shorter.

Good point. I’m one of those.

 

[zill]

Good point. I’m one of those.

Than use a long backswing. Use whatever is natural for you.

 

[Curious]

Than use a long backswing. Use whatever is natural for you.

The point was to adapt/modify the size of backswing depending on the incoming ball.

 

[zill]

The point was to adapt/modify the size of backswing depending on the incoming ball.

I modify the size of my rotation (which in turn modifies the size of my backswing) depending on the incoming ball.

 

[Curious]

I modify the size of my rotation (which in turn modifies the size of my backswing) depending on the incoming ball.

Speaking of backswing, you release your left hand at 3 o'clock position on forehand, correct?

I’ve been thinking the Alcaraz way is a brilliant idea! His left hand goes back with the racket all the way to 5-5:30 position.
1.That keeps the racket on the hitting side.
2. Results in excellent turn/coiling
3. All you do from that position is swing at the ball.

https://imgur.com/a/vULqumx

 

[Dragy]

The point was to adapt/modify the size of backswing depending on the incoming ball.

Wasn't the idea of abbreviating the prep long around? @nyta2

It helps to use "late power injection" as I call it, where your racquet acceleration doesn't depend much on long runway, like in typical "WTA-style" swing.

 

[Curious]

@zill
I’m surprised you’ve dismissed this.
Btw I’ll add Djokovic fh here as well.

Speaking of backswing, you release your left hand at 3 o'clock position on forehand, correct?

I’ve been thinking the Alcaraz way is a brilliant idea! His left hand goes back with the racket all the way to 5-5:30 position.
1.That keeps the racket on the hitting side.
2. Results in excellent turn/coiling
3. All you do from that position is swing at the ball.

https://imgur.com/a/vULqumx

 

[zill]

@zill
I’m surprised you’ve dismissed this.
Btw I’ll add Djokovic fh here as well.

Trivial issue. I somewhat obsessed about this in 2019 but have solved/understand it now. Don’t think about it anymore.

 

[eah123]

This video explains how to do exactly what you describe and why it works.

 

[johnmccabe]

This video explains how to do exactly what you describe and why it works.

Oh gosh! Another hidden gem from Coach Steven that I never found out about. This is exactly the stage I'm at.