Watched Wimbledon 2006 and 2007 F's for the first time: My thoughts

[Deleted member 792641]

Note: I watched a compressed version of both finals cuz I didn't have like 6 hours to spare. Each version was half an hour long and covered the most important points, but obviously some stuff may be missing. Just take that into account as I write.

Wimbledon 2006 F

Although Federer won, the #1 thing that stood out to me in this match was Nadal's backhand. WOW. I don't think I've EVER seen Nadal's backhand that good off clay before. Not only is it miles ahead of his backhand today (which compared with 2006 Nadal looks like FAA's backhand), but his backhand was actually better than his forehand in this match.

The 1st set Federer absolutely feasted on Nadal, and it seemed that Nadal was still nervous/not settled in. Bagel in their first ever Wimby set. Not exactly a great start. However, the second set was very evenly matched, which is surprising because this is babydal vs. absolute prime Federer. Nadal played some amazing tennis and was serving for the set, but just completely choked his game to serve out the set (seems like Nadal always has trouble serving out sets/matches). Federer proceeds to win an up and down tiebreak thanks to the trusty serve.

Third set is more of the same EXTREMELY high quality tennis. Only difference is no Nadal choke and the tiebreak goes the other way.

Fourth set is a quality drop, as Nadal's level finally starts to decline. Federer closes it out. He was the more consistent player in the match, but their peak levels in the middle sets were about equal. Nadal a little awkward at the net, but you can see there is obviously potential in this matchup.

Also, WHAT ARE THESE?????



Anyways, onto Wimbledon 2007 F

On Nadal's end, the backhand is still SUPER strong. The level of the forehand has increased greatly from the last final, and now the forehand and backhand are equally potent. If we compare this Nadal to the one nowadays, we see that his backhand and movement have heavily declined. His forehand is basically as good, and he is much better at the net now than he was in 06/07.

Just really high quality stuff all around. Although, I now understand why Nadal fans said this was one of his most heartbreaking losses. It was about even all match, with not many breaks and Federer taking control of tiebreaks with his serve, but in the fourth Nadal really took the upper hand. In the fifth Nadal was outplaying Federer, but clutch serving and an untimely forehand error after a great backhand from Nadal ultimately led to the Fed win. THere wasn't much separating them in the match, and it felt that Federer kind of escaped with it. Nadal left him off the hook.

Though, we know that next year, the humble fisherman made sure to fully reel in his prey before dehooking it.

 

[Lleytonstation]

08 was even. Old man could not see in the dark. Make that 2 ties for fed at WC.

 

[ForehandCross]

Say what you say about Nadal's dependence on clay. The dude can live with the absolute best on other surfaces while being a dream killing machine on his own.

 

[Sudacafan]

08 was even. Old man could not see in the dark. Make that 2 ties for fed at WC.

Old man Fed in 08 Wimbledon final had not turned 27 yet.

 

[Deleted member 792641]

Old man Fed in 08 Wimbledon final had not turned 27 yet.

I'm a bit of a Nadal fan, but to be honest even I think 08 Fed wasn't on the same level at Wimby that 06 and 07 Fed were (especially 06). It doesn't make the win less sweet, because Fed was still like 95% of peak Fed, which is still one of the greatest levels ever, but I don't think he was at his best. Don't get it wrong, it's HIS fault that that is the case, but I don't think the absolute best Fed would go down 2 sets at Wimby

 

[ADuck]

I always am bemused when people say Nadal played on grass like it was clay (very defensively) when he was anything but. If anything, he became more defensive and calculated over time on that surface.

 

[Deleted member 792641]

I always am bemused when people say Nadal played on grass like it was clay (very defensively) when he was anything but. If anything, he became more defensive and calculated over time on that surface.

Yes, I noticed that as I watched. His grass game in 06-10 was very offensive and very different from his clay and HC games. Once he started trying to grind on grass (2012-2017) he wasn't able to get very far

 

[Lleytonstation]

Old man Fed in 08 Wimbledon final had not turned 27 yet.

27 was old in 2008 for tennis terms.

 

[Deleted member 792641]

27 was old in 2008 for tennis terms.

Before filling careers with helium and propaganda being rampant

 

[Third Serve]

I watched the whole 2007 final about two months ago so I’ll just copy some of my thoughts here from another thread. All the timestamps mentioned pertain to the full match Wimbledon uploaded on their YT channel.

Alrighty, I've finished the rewatch. Here are some of my observations while I still have the match fresh in my head:

Overall, fantastic match with lots of brilliant rallies between the two players and some very tense games that could have gone either way. There are a couple of reasons why it ended up going Fed's way.

One, Federer was very clutch in this match as a whole. The fifth set deserves its own analysis which I'll leave for the end of this post, but even disregarding that, there's lots to find in the other parts of the match. The two tiebreaks he won in the first and third sets (outside of some nerves in the first) were generally pretty clutch from him and he staved off some of Nadal's opportunities with some brilliant rallies and impeccable serving.

Speaking of which, his serving was on point, even more than usual I'd say. Beyond being quite clutch on the shot when down BPs, he had some stretches of play when he was quite untouchable in his service games. I still think 2009 was definitely his strongest serving in a Wimbledon final -- easily I'd say -- but after watching this match it may be that we can put 2007 in second place. The numbers put him at 71% first serves in which lines up with what I saw. He was definitely landing a lot of them.

I'm trying to look for any sort of mistake Nadal made that turned the match into a five-set loss rather than a win, but there's honestly not much I can really fault him for outside of the last game (which, again, we'll get to). He moved very well, generally outplayed Federer in the baseline rallies, and he was deadly on the pass. I guess you can point to his relatively soft serve which would later be the biggest source of his improvement in 2008, but it was still decent if not great and he generally placed it well.

Has to be said that Fed could have done better on the return. He was definitely not as shaky in that regard as in 2008 but, especially off the backhand, he could have done more damage to the relatively weak Nadal serve. I guess he was generally fine on the first serve but the second serve return needed some work. I think he definitely returned better in 2006, although Nadal's serve was also a bit weaker in 2006. Still, Nadal's serve and Federer's return don't bring down the final that much: again, they were still decent enough.

There were a lot of very close line calls in this match. Hawk-eye had to be consulted quite frequently, and there were a few notable cases of shots turning out to have landed in by millimeters. Federer's not too pleased with the technology, and I can't say I blame him too much. Some of the shots looked clearly in or out to me, only for Hawk-eye to demonstrate that it was, in fact, the opposite. An interesting debut for Hawk-eye at Wimbledon.

Gotta say, Centre Court looks particularly nice here. They got rid of some of the roofing due to construction of a retractable roof that would begin to be installed in 2008 and reach completion in 2009. The result is a very natural-looking stadium that doesn't look nearly as vertical as in future editions of Wimbledon. Doesn't hurt that the conditions are quite nice either.

This match can really be split into three parts.

First Three Sets: 7-6 4-6 7-6

Despite being the biggest section with the greatest display of tennis from both players at the same time, this is probably the most boring part of the match to analyze. There's just not that much to say about it other than that it was a fantastic three sets and some of the best tennis in the entire Fedal rivalry. Still, there's a few things to say because it is three close sets of high-quality shotmaking.

If I had to say, I think Nadal has the better of play here, even though Fed ends up with the better result: two sets to one. He's a little better on the baseline and on return, despite the serve disadvantage. But it's close -- Fed's forehand is great here and he does a nice job dictating play with it whenever he gets the chance. But given how often Nadal attacks the backhand, he doesn't get this chance as often as he'd like. Practically nothing between the two players at all, they both play great. There's a nice rally at around 38:15, Nadal serving at 4-5 30-30 that stuck out as particularly memorable. Great baseline rallying for the first half, then good hands from Fed at the net followed by a nice pass from Nadal that barely goes in. There are probably even better ones in the set but that one sticks out in my head.

After a first set filled with pretty great tennis, Fed raises his level a notch in a pretty memorable -- if nervy -- tiebreak featuring some aggressive shotmaking from both players. He has chances to close it out at 6-5 and actually appears to win the set but Hawk-eye rules a (pretty clutch) Nadal BH in, extending the tiebreak a bit. Credit to Fed for maintaining composure the rest of it, eventually taking it a close 9-7. Nadal's also a bit nervous but he plays well overall.

The second set is like the first for the most part, except Nadal plays a great game to break at the eleventh hour. Highlights include a point (1:35:10) where he slipped and fell as he was executing a BH pass... which landed in. Fed's also slightly loose here but I would give more credit to Nadal than discredit to Fed. The break (and set) point is a memorable one that features a very brilliant DTL BH pass from Nadal.

Third set is like the first two. There's stiff competition, of course, but this may be the best set of the five by a small margin. Not sure if I can pick out a specific rally that caught my attention but I do know there were plenty of great ones. Nadal gets very close to winning this one 6-4 too, making it to deuce as Fed serves to stay in the set. But Fed shows great hands at the net, hitting one of the sexier BH overheads I've seen in my viewing time and then some great reaction volleys to clinch the hold. He takes it up another notch in the tiebreak with impeccable serving and sure groundstrokes.

 

[Third Serve]

Fourth Set: 2-6

At the end of the third, you kinda got the implication that, yeah, Nadal had been very impressive up to that point and he certainly came close on a number of occasions, but Fed was likely running away with this match. This fourth set puts that to bed. Nadal dishes out a straight-up beatdown of Federer, blasting groundstrokes every which way and locking him almost out of the set. His BH in particular is extremely deadly and wins him more than a few critical points this set. His passing is also excellent, and it's what helps win him the first break of the set. It has to be said that Federer doesn't play well at all, though. He lets loose a flurry of errors which, combined with Nadal's dominant groundstrokes, quickly leave him down 0-4. The second of these breaks is interesting because there's a FH Nadal hits at 3-0 30-30 (2:41:50) that almost certainly looks out, but Hawk-eye shows it to be in, greatly annoying Fed who proceeds to argue with the umpire, Carlos Ramos, about Hawk-eye's continued use in the match.

Nadal actually comes somewhat close to bageling Fed, honestly. He gets to deuce on Federer's serve, up 4-0, but a couple of clutch unreturned serves allow Fed to hold. At this point, Nadal actually takes a medical timeout for I believe his knee, but whatever pain he appears to feel doesn't seem to affect his tennis all that much. It's still scintillating. Fed improves in the second half of the set but it's not enough to dig himself out of the hole and Nadal closes it out 6-2. You would probably have to go back to before 2003 to see Federer getting taken apart this ruthlessly on grass. Part of it's due to his own walkabout, but Nadal deserves a ton of credit for winning that fourth set the way he did. Overall, the fourth set of this match is a bit of a dud but it's interesting to analyze because of just how drastically the action diverges from that of the first three.

Fifth Set: 6-2

But Federer deserves even more credit for taking the fifth set like that. I would even say it's among the clutchest, most impressive ones he's ever played, given the circumstances. For the first time in a long, long while, there's real doubt about his chances at winning a match at Wimbledon, and this was a final to boot. Not to mention doing this would give him five wins in a row, a feat that hadn't been done since Bjorn Borg (who is in the crowd watching, as the camera loves to inform us). After the first three sets, it looked like Fed had something of an upper hand in the match, but that advantage was effortlessly dismantled by a red-hot Nadal in the fourth. So where does that leave Fed?

The beginning of the fifth set is very close. There's some nerves from both players and thus a few misses, but both still enjoy early holds, unlike the last set. In Fed's second, he goes down 15-40 but bangs down an unreturnable and wins this rally (3:18:40). Nadal has a bleh miss on the last shot but you have to appreciate Fed's defense here, particularly when he runs down that Nadal cross-court BH. This point, the 30-40 one, is probably the one Nadal regrets most in this match. It's not all his fault, to be sure, but if that inside-in FH successfully goes in... Well, Fed holds at any rate, capping the game off with a vintage FH winner. His next service game is also a tricky one, and he again finds himself down 15-40 (3:27:15). This time, I don't think you can fault Nadal for losing the game. The first point is a second serve return error, but it's a pretty tricky second serve out wide judging from the court-level view they've provided us. The next one's a strong first serve that goes unreturned, and a few more good points from Fed eliminate the threat.

It's one-way traffic from here on out (3-2). To begin with, Fed -- after having struggled to break the Nadal serve for almost the whole match -- plays one of the best return games I think I've ever seen him play at this stage of a tournament. A great FH passer, a bomb of a FH down the line, and perhaps the rally of the match (3:34:15) are the highlights here. That last BH slice to completely turn the tide of the point and the proceeding FH winner that landed right on the line were just perfect. Nadal actually doesn't do much wrong this game but this is the moment he gets left in the dust for good. Fed continues the momentum in his next service game, holding to love with three aces and an unreturned serve. Again, Nadal doesn't even do badly here: there's not much anyone can do against that kind of serving.

The final game of the match is a bit of a nervy affair with some good shots thrown in. Nadal tries to fight back one more time but ultimately a few poor errors and some great shotmaking from Federer bring him down match point. That match point (3:45:30) is emblematic of the set as a whole: a fairly weak Nadal second serve gets mercilessly punished by two brutal forehands from Fed, setting him up for an overhead which he makes, decisively stamping Nadal out of the match for good.

It's one of the closest 6-2 sets I've ever seen, despite Fed's hot run from 3-2 to 6-2, and the action involved is more befitting a 6-4 scoreline. Still, not as good as the first three sets, but as an ending to the match, it's not bad at all.

In summation, excellent match with very interesting playing dynamics and shifts of momentum after a tense, high-quality opening three sets. Not as dramatic as the 2008 or even 2009 finals, but as far as the actual quality of the tennis goes, this just may be the greatest Wimbledon final of the Open Era even with those 2-6 6-2 sets (certainly within the last 30 years at least).

 

[Deleted member 792641]

I watched the whole 2007 final about two months ago so I’ll just copy some of my thoughts here from another thread. All the timestamps mentioned pertain to the full match Wimbledon uploaded on their YT channel.

Alrighty, I've finished the rewatch. Here are some of my observations while I still have the match fresh in my head:

Overall, fantastic match with lots of brilliant rallies between the two players and some very tense games that could have gone either way. There are a couple of reasons why it ended up going Fed's way.

One, Federer was very clutch in this match as a whole. The fifth set deserves its own analysis which I'll leave for the end of this post, but even disregarding that, there's lots to find in the other parts of the match. The two tiebreaks he won in the first and third sets (outside of some nerves in the first) were generally pretty clutch from him and he staved off some of Nadal's opportunities with some brilliant rallies and impeccable serving.

Speaking of which, his serving was on point, even more than usual I'd say. Beyond being quite clutch on the shot when down BPs, he had some stretches of play when he was quite untouchable in his service games. I still think 2009 was definitely his strongest serving in a Wimbledon final -- easily I'd say -- but after watching this match it may be that we can put 2007 in second place. The numbers put him at 71% first serves in which lines up with what I saw. He was definitely landing a lot of them.

I'm trying to look for any sort of mistake Nadal made that turned the match into a five-set loss rather than a win, but there's honestly not much I can really fault him for outside of the last game (which, again, we'll get to). He moved very well, generally outplayed Federer in the baseline rallies, and he was deadly on the pass. I guess you can point to his relatively soft serve which would later be the biggest source of his improvement in 2008, but it was still decent if not great and he generally placed it well.

Has to be said that Fed could have done better on the return. He was definitely not as shaky in that regard as in 2008 but, especially off the backhand, he could have done more damage to the relatively weak Nadal serve. I guess he was generally fine on the first serve but the second serve return needed some work. I think he definitely returned better in 2006, although Nadal's serve was also a bit weaker in 2006. Still, Nadal's serve and Federer's return don't bring down the final that much: again, they were still decent enough.

There were a lot of very close line calls in this match. Hawk-eye had to be consulted quite frequently, and there were a few notable cases of shots turning out to have landed in by millimeters. Federer's not too pleased with the technology, and I can't say I blame him too much. Some of the shots looked clearly in or out to me, only for Hawk-eye to demonstrate that it was, in fact, the opposite. An interesting debut for Hawk-eye at Wimbledon.

Gotta say, Centre Court looks particularly nice here. They got rid of some of the roofing due to construction of a retractable roof that would begin to be installed in 2008 and reach completion in 2009. The result is a very natural-looking stadium that doesn't look nearly as vertical as in future editions of Wimbledon. Doesn't hurt that the conditions are quite nice either.

This match can really be split into three parts.

First Three Sets: 7-6 4-6 7-6

Despite being the biggest section with the greatest display of tennis from both players at the same time, this is probably the most boring part of the match to analyze. There's just not that much to say about it other than that it was a fantastic three sets and some of the best tennis in the entire Fedal rivalry. Still, there's a few things to say because it is three close sets of high-quality shotmaking.

If I had to say, I think Nadal has the better of play here, even though Fed ends up with the better result: two sets to one. He's a little better on the baseline and on return, despite the serve disadvantage. But it's close -- Fed's forehand is great here and he does a nice job dictating play with it whenever he gets the chance. But given how often Nadal attacks the backhand, he doesn't get this chance as often as he'd like. Practically nothing between the two players at all, they both play great. There's a nice rally at around 38:15, Nadal serving at 4-5 30-30 that stuck out as particularly memorable. Great baseline rallying for the first half, then good hands from Fed at the net followed by a nice pass from Nadal that barely goes in. There are probably even better ones in the set but that one sticks out in my head.

After a first set filled with pretty great tennis, Fed raises his level a notch in a pretty memorable -- if nervy -- tiebreak featuring some aggressive shotmaking from both players. He has chances to close it out at 6-5 and actually appears to win the set but Hawk-eye rules a (pretty clutch) Nadal BH in, extending the tiebreak a bit. Credit to Fed for maintaining composure the rest of it, eventually taking it a close 9-7. Nadal's also a bit nervous but he plays well overall.

The second set is like the first for the most part, except Nadal plays a great game to break at the eleventh hour. Highlights include a point (1:35:10) where he slipped and fell as he was executing a BH pass... which landed in. Fed's also slightly loose here but I would give more credit to Nadal than discredit to Fed. The break (and set) point is a memorable one that features a very brilliant DTL BH pass from Nadal.

Third set is like the first two. There's stiff competition, of course, but this may be the best set of the five by a small margin. Not sure if I can pick out a specific rally that caught my attention but I do know there were plenty of great ones. Nadal gets very close to winning this one 6-4 too, making it to deuce as Fed serves to stay in the set. But Fed shows great hands at the net, hitting one of the sexier BH overheads I've seen in my viewing time and then some great reaction volleys to clinch the hold. He takes it up another notch in the tiebreak with impeccable serving and sure groundstrokes.

may be unpopular (and also influenced by the points selected in the compression I saw), but I think the two best sets quality wise in the whole trilogy were the middle sets of the 06 match. Though its probably just up to my preference.

 

[Fiero425]

Yes, I noticed that as I watched. His grass game in 06-10 was very offensive and very different from his clay and HC games. Once he started trying to grind on grass (2012-2017) he wasn't able to get very far

I just never thought Nadal wanted to be there in London! We've noticed, if he missed a major, Wimbledon's at the top of his list! It's always been easy to fain injury or just say "I'm exhausted after such a grueling French Open!" He's had truly lame results in the last decade that haven't been acknowledged much for some reason! It's been an embarrassment to even drop that Semi-final to Federer in 2019!

 

[JaxTeller]

Although Federer won, the #1 thing that stood out to me in this match was Nadal's backhand. WOW. I don't think I've EVER seen Nadal's backhand that good off clay before. Not only is it miles ahead of his backhand today (which compared with 2006 Nadal looks like FAA's backhand), but his backhand was actually better than his forehand in this match.

Lmao at this para..
His BH post 2017 is his best Bh version (talking about the pure shot only)

 

[clayqueen]

Yes, I noticed that as I watched. His grass game in 06-10 was very offensive and very different from his clay and HC games. Once he started trying to grind on grass (2012-2017) he wasn't able to get very far

I don't think Rafa ever grinds on grass, he was just very unlucky with the draw and always coming off a long clay season with wonky knees and hardly any preparation.

In 2008 when he was fit he not only won Queens beating Djokovic he also went on to beat Federer at Wimbledon. In 2009 he couldn't defend his title because of knee problems, he won it in 2010 beating Berdych in the final who had already beaten Federer and Djokovic, made the final in 2011 losing to the new improved Djokovic then the nightmare 2012-2015. In 2018 he lost that close 5 setter to Djokovic in the SF and in 2019 he lost to Federer in the SF in 4 sets. That's the last time he played Wimbledon.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

08 was even. Old man could not see in the dark. Make that 2 ties for fed at WC.

Old man? You realise he was only 26?

 

[Deleted member 756514]

Out of 14 sets in the trilogy, Fed won 8 to Nadal's 6.

5 of those 8 were tie-break seats. Nadal won a solitary tie-breaker.

I haven't done the maths but i am pretty sure Nadal broke Federer's serve more often than the other way round.

Ofcourse the curse of tie breakers fell upon Federer in 2019 as we know.

 

[Backspin1183]

I just never thought Nadal wanted to be there in London! We've noticed, if he missed a major, Wimbledon's at the top of his list! It's always been easy to fain injury or just say "I'm exhausted after such a grueling French Open!" He's had truly lame results in the last decade that haven't been acknowledged much for some reason! It's been an embarrassment to even drop that Semi-final to Federer in 2019!

Hasn't the last done enough to win 22 Slams? Should we fault him for not winning more?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Epic, crispy, peak Fedal

 

[Deleted member 791948]

08 was even. Old man could not see in the dark. Make that 2 ties for fed at WC.

But Nadal had a much more difficult task, having to return Federer's serve in the dark