Wawrinka's backhand is like a modern forehand

tennis_hack

Banned
Credit must go to PhrygianDominant for noticing this, but I agree with the assessment and felt it deserved a thread.

I believe we could be witnessing an evolution in the technique of the 1hbh. Wawrinka's backhand is far, far removed from that of an Edberg or Sampras.

Federer started to evolve the 1hbh when he began to supinate (the backhand equivalent of pronation) through the shot with his forearm to impart more topspin, and make the racket do a distinctive 'twirl 'manoeuvre.

Almagro sometimes follows this trend, but Gasquet does it most obviously, as shown in most of the backhands hit here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oj4nQqFczE

Although Wawrinka uses a less extreme grip than Gasquet, he also does this supination, and his backhand is mechanically more extreme in other ways, such that I think bears more similarity to a modern forehand than anything else because;

1). He has the ability to hit it from an open stance - which I have seen him do many times on clay and hard. When given time he'll use a neutral stance, however.

2). The torso rotation is extreme, and he opens his chest way up to the net - this is a trait not seen in many other 1hbh's such as Federer's and Gasquet's

3). The racket follows a windshield-wiper swing path to help generate more topspin on a flatter swing path. The racket finishes relatively low on the body, instead of way above the head as is typically taught in a 1hbh.

4). It is hit with a straight arm to allow a longer lever arm and thus more peak power (at the sacrifice of consistency) - like the forehands of Nadal and Federer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgNASyLyGAg

In terms of muscle usage - the same core muscles used to hit the 2hbh with are used in Wawrinka's type of 1hbh because of his torso rotation - yet the lever arm is longer because he is not restricted by the 2nd hand.

This probably explains his uncanny power off that wing - when hitting well he's able even at times to bully around the best 2hbh's in the world from opponents physically bigger than him (Djokovic, Murray and Berdych).

Last year at the Australian Open when Wawrinka first pushed Djokovic to 5, commentators were exclaiming 'he's hitting with two forehands right now!'... Looking at how radically different Wawrinka's backhand is to a classical 1hbh - perhaps there's a bit of truth in that.
 

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
My wrist is fully supinated when I hit a forehand, which I think is more 'modern' than pronation, which you would do with an eastern FH grip.

The BH equivalent to that would be pronation with a very extreme grip.

But yes, Wawrinka's BH does seem less mechanical and more just slapping the ball like a big forehand.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
My wrist is fully supinated when I hit a forehand, which I think is more 'modern' than pronation, which you would do with an eastern FH grip.

The BH equivalent to that would be pronation with a very extreme grip.

But yes, Wawrinka's BH does seem less mechanical and more just slapping the ball like a big forehand.

I mean you are pronating through the shot.

So your forearm starts supinated with a western grip, but pronates through contact. This creates the windshield wiper finish.

With 1hbh, it supinates through contact, but may have started pronated in an extreme grip.
 

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
I haven't studied others' strokes that much. Maybe my FH is unusual, I'm not sure. I begin with full pronation on the back swing and supinate on the actual stroke, ending in full supination.

But now that I think of it, I believe that there are 2 different versions of the modern forehand. One in which you supinate through the stroke (the racquet face points behind you at the beginning of it) and the other in which the racquet begins pointing forward and you pronate through the stroke.
 
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yellowoctopus

Professional
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Good analysis but almost all one-handers hit with a straight arm for point 4.

That, and points #1-3 can be explained by Wawrinka being tree-trunk-strong.

Sorry, while I admit that Wawrinka's backhand is unique, I don't think it's as revolutionary as you may think. Simply because very few juniors will possess that kind of strength to execute a one-handed backhand in his fashion.
 

PhrygianDominant

Hall of Fame
That, and points #1-3 can be explained by Wawrinka being tree-trunk-strong.

Sorry, while I admit that Wawrinka's backhand is unique, I don't think it's as revolutionary as you may think. Simply because very few juniors will possess that kind of strength to execute a one-handed backhand in his fashion.

I think people may be able to copy the technique, even if their results may differ. Maybe somebody will improve on his methods, or maybe just improve their own results.

or not...
it is the nature of the beast
 
A

Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
I've recently been naturally supinating on my backhand, with a lower follow through, otherwise my shoulder's been uncomfortable. I've always preferred more of a front-on backhand, that seemed more natural for me and I suppose this little sub-conscious adaptation helps with comfort.
 
I think people may be able to copy the technique, even if their results may differ. Maybe somebody will improve on his methods, or maybe just improve their own results.

or not...
it is the nature of the beast

I just dont know who would teach HIS backhand. Definitely not saying it's bad because the result speaks for itself, but just how do you teach someone to hit a open-chest, open-stance 1handed backhand?

I just think Wawrinka's 1hander has been molded by Wawrinka, FOR Wawrinka. If I'm teaching anyone a 1handed backhand, I'll turn to the likes of Federer/Henin/Kuerten/Haas/Robredo. I left out Grigor because I think his is tailor made for him too, ESPECIALLY his exaggerated follow-through.
 

PhrygianDominant

Hall of Fame
I just dont know who would teach HIS backhand. Definitely not saying it's bad because the result speaks for itself, but just how do you teach someone to hit a open-chest, open-stance 1handed backhand?

I just think Wawrinka's 1hander has been molded by Wawrinka, FOR Wawrinka. If I'm teaching anyone a 1handed backhand, I'll turn to the likes of Federer/Henin/Kuerten/Haas/Robredo. I left out Grigor because I think his is tailor made for him too, ESPECIALLY his exaggerated follow-through.

I know it's novel, but if he wins more I think people will start teaching it.

I actually think it's simpler than a lot of more traditional backhands to imitate.
 

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
I know it's novel, but if he wins more I think people will start teaching it.

I actually think it's simpler than a lot of more traditional backhands to imitate.

It really does look effortless, doesn't it? His set-up time is so short. Federer and Gasquet (especially Richie) take much longer to step up. Wawrinka just takes his arm back and swings.Heck, it looks so much simpler than even two handed backhands. Djokovic sets up, crunches his arms close to his body, and then rotates into the ball
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
One day some chump will hit a 1hbh backhand with all the pat the dog and racquet on the same side, etc and Rich Maci will have a video on ATP backhand.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
I just dont know who would teach HIS backhand. Definitely not saying it's bad because the result speaks for itself, but just how do you teach someone to hit a open-chest, open-stance 1handed backhand?

I just think Wawrinka's 1hander has been molded by Wawrinka, FOR Wawrinka. If I'm teaching anyone a 1handed backhand, I'll turn to the likes of Federer/Henin/Kuerten/Haas/Robredo. I left out Grigor because I think his is tailor made for him too, ESPECIALLY his exaggerated follow-through.

Wawrinka's style of backhand is what I did when I first switched to 1hbh and didn't even follow tennis closely enough to know who Wawrinka was.

The group coach always used to say: "throw the left arm backwards to stop you rotating", but I lost the groove of the stroke immediately every time I tried that. Instead, I throw my arm out sideways and allow my body to rotate - like Wawrinka.

So no, I don't think it's especially tailored to him specifically - and it may in fact be a more natural and easier style of 1hbh for many recs to execute - especially as it more closely mimics how people are hitting forehands nowadays.

As for Wawrinka being freakishly strong... how is he? I don't see it. He's somewhat strong, yes, but so should all aspiring pro tennis players be, and they should, in fact, aim to be stronger than Wawrinka - heck they should aim to be stronger than Nadal - that isn't unachievable. I'd be disappointed if the next generation of athletes weren't all stronger than Nadal.
 

PhrygianDominant

Hall of Fame
It really does look effortless, doesn't it? His set-up time is so short. Federer and Gasquet (especially Richie) take much longer to step up. Wawrinka just takes his arm back and swings.Heck, it looks so much simpler than even two handed backhands. Djokovic sets up, crunches his arms close to his body, and then rotates into the ball

yeah. I am working on my 1hbh now coming from a 2hbh. Without asking for it, my coach has taught me something resembling Wawrinka's backhand, and of course I am watching video's trying to pick up on the subtleties.

I am pretty sure the 1hbh will have to change and adapt to survive in the modern game. The old gospel of "hit it on the rise" when confronted with topspin has reached it's practical limits. We are going to have to close the racquet face and hit with more topspin, which I think Wawrinka has started showing us how to do it.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I have been using an open stance (as the need arises for it) for the 1 handed backhand for quite some time. You might even say that I was the one who pioneered it.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
yeah. I am working on my 1hbh now coming from a 2hbh. Without asking for it, my coach has taught me something resembling Wawrinka's backhand, and of course I am watching video's trying to pick up on the subtleties.

I am pretty sure the 1hbh will have to change and adapt to survive in the modern game. The old gospel of "hit it on the rise" when confronted with topspin has reached it's practical limits. We are going to have to close the racquet face and hit with more topspin, which I think Wawrinka has started showing us how to do it.

I have pointed out many times in the Tips section that hit on the rise is not good advice any more.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
I don't get it. The 1hbh always has more freedom of forearm/wrist motion. So I would think it is more similar to the 1hfh than the 2hbh.
 
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