We will see where Nadal really is during the clay court season.

[joechiang]

Pray for Nadal.

 

[tlm]

I am not a hater at all. The fact is that it is true Nadal is the second favorite to win every slam but what good is that if he can't win them and Djokovic is winning every time? All I am saying is Nadal needs to reverse the mental ownage fast or it will be even tougher for him to defeat Djokovic. If you want to ignore that fact as a *******, fine with me, do it at your own peril. I think Nadal can beat Djokovic again and I have said that over and over on here so don't call me a hater. I am just saying the longer the losing streak goes the harder it will be for Nadal to pick himself up. The losing streak Nadal has had with Djokovic is much worse than what Federer had with Nadal in Federer's prime so pipe down.

Re Djokovic playing better than Federer did in his prime and against better competition, if that is what you need to believe for your own sanity go ahead. No sane tennis expert would believe that however.

Really well list the tough competition that fed was winning his majors against then. I mean wow there was the powerhouse hewitt that was # 1 then the killer roddick and oh ya old man aggassi.

Ya i guess your right the competition was just out of this world. This has nothing to do with being sane it is just a fact that the competition is much tougher now than it was when fed was racking up his majors. But if you need to live in fantasy land to keep your sanity then go ahead.

Let me guess you would get your tennis experts from this site, well i am sure they would agree with you but they are anything but experts, just a bunch of fed lovers.

You claim that rafa must reverse this mental ownage that joker has over him. Well joker is playing better than everyone else by a good margin, so you can call it mental all you want. But the fact is joker is just better than everyone else, it has nothing to do with any mental edge. He is just to good right now.

 

[tlm]

That's a two way street. It isn't just about Rafa's confidence, it's also about other players confidence, i.e. Rafa has lost his aura of invincibility and other players are no longer afraid of him.

Ya i can tell by how so many of the other players are making the finals at all the slams.

 

[joechiang]

Tougher competition means Nadal on HC,old Fed,incompetent Murray and countless nobody.

 

[cc0509]

Really well list the tough competition that fed was winning his majors against then. I mean wow there was the powerhouse hewitt that was # 1 then the killer roddick and oh ya old man aggassi.

Ya i guess your right the competition was just out of this world. This has nothing to do with being sane it is just a fact that the competition is much tougher now than it was when fed was racking up his majors. But if you need to live in fantasy land to keep your sanity then go ahead.

Let me guess you would get your tennis experts from this site, well i am sure they would agree with you but they are anything but experts, just a bunch of fed lovers.

You claim that rafa must reverse this mental ownage that joker has over him. Well joker is playing better than everyone else by a good margin, so you can call it mental all you want. But the fact is joker is just better than everyone else, it has nothing to do with any mental edge. He is just to good right now.

First off, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to learn how to spell. Just a tip! :wink:

Nadal was playing against those same pool of players that Federer was playing against for the most part of their careers so if Federer's competition was weak, guess what, so was Nadal's. Plus Nadal could not even beat that same competition off clay to get to the finals to meet Federer until many years after Nadal won his first clay slam.

I am not talking about tennis experts on this forum but real tennis experts. You will not find many if any who will tell you Djokovic is a better player than Federer. Plus, let me ask you a question, if you claim Federer is not so great and only had to beat weak competition, how is Nadal or Djokovic beating Federer now, a player long past his prime so great? You can't have it both ways.

Djokovic has been better than Nadal but there has also been a mental edge that has built up after all of the wins he has had over Nadal. Mental edge is a big part of the game whether you want to believe that or not. Nadal/Djokovic is both a match-up issue and a mental issue. Both must be dealt with by Nadal. By the way, Federer does not have this same match-up difficulty with Djokovic and did beat Djokovic in an important slam match last year unlike the prime Nadal.

 

[veroniquem]

Tlm, I agree with most of what you say. Still I have to admit (even though I don't like it) that the argument that Djoko is just too good for anyone period is not sufficient to describe Rafa's situation vs Djoko. Since the start of Djoko's dominance, Fed has beaten Djoko once and Murray has beaten him twice, Rafa 0 despite playing Djoko 7 times (way more than anyone else).
Unless he gets a win asap, it is clear people will continue analyzing their matchup as a major block on Rafa's part rather than the general Djoko dominance over the tour.
And that is why I want that win to happen as soon as possible because the more losses Rafa accumulates vs Novak, the deeper the hole gets that Rafa is digging for himself in that rivalry.

 

[tlm]

First off, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to learn how to spell. Just a tip! :wink:

Nadal was playing against those same pool of players that Federer was playing against for the most part of their careers so if Federer's competition was weak, guess what, so was Nadal's. Plus Nadal could not even beat that same competition off clay to get to the finals to meet Federer until many years after Nadal won his first clay slam.

I am not talking about tennis experts on this forum but real tennis experts. You will not find many if any who will tell you Djokovic is a better player than Federer. Plus, let me ask you a question, if you claim Federer is not so great and only had to beat weak competition, how is Nadal or Djokovic beating Federer now, a player long past his prime so great? You can't have it both ways.

Djokovic has been better than Nadal but there has also been a mental edge that has built up after all of the wins he has had over Nadal. Mental edge is a big part of the game whether you want to believe that or not. Nadal/Djokovic is both a match-up issue and a mental issue. Both must be dealt with by Nadal. By the way, Federer does not have this same match-up difficulty with Djokovic and did beat Djokovic in an important slam match last year unlike the prime Nadal.

Well sorry i misspelled a couple of words there MR english teacher, i mean that is very important in these discussions. I never claimed that rafa did not benefit from some weak competition because he did. I have stated before that i give credit to fed for still being competitive at his age against better competition than when he was in his prime.

 

[DeShaun]

Sadly I think Nadal and Roger are yesterday's news. Nadal outlived Roger by one year (1.); this may be all Rafa was reasonably hoping for.

1. Roger stopped winning slams in 2010, Nadal in 2011. Some would say that most everything about Rafa's game was geared towards efficiently running Roger down, designed to overtake Federer specifically, not the rest of the tour in general. Rafa was the first guy to come along, for example, who was able to read Roger's serve consistently. That ability likely was cultivated and achieved somewhat by Rafa's design and hearty approval.

Not to mention, Rafa did not hold on to the number one ranking for very long, but seemed actually to lose interest in it rather quickly. But then, I'm absolutely certain that he never actually lost interest in "being number one," only that his game was never built for retaining that status, merely for assassinating one incumbent in particular.

And now that Novak is on top, Roger is thirty, and Murray is publicly endeavoring to improve his place in the pecking order of the top four, Rafa's cause looks grim because even Roger is beating him more often these days.

 

[celoft]

Sadly I think Nadal and Roger are yesterday's news. Nadal outlived Roger by one year (1.); this may be all Rafa was reasonably hoping for.

1. Roger stopped winning slams in 2010, Nadal in 2011. Some would say that most everything about Rafa's game was geared towards efficiently running Roger down, designed to overtake Federer specifically, not the rest of the tour in general. Rafa was the first guy to come along, for example, who was able to read Roger's serve consistently. That ability likely was cultivated and achieved somewhat by Rafa's design and hearty approval.

Not to mention, Rafa did not hold on to the number one ranking for very long, but seemed actually to lose interest in it rather quickly. But then, I'm absolutely certain that he never actually lost interest in "being number one," only that his game was never built for retaining that status, merely for assassinating one incumbent in particular.

And now that Novak is on top, Roger is thirty, and Murray is publicly endeavoring to improve his place in the pecking order of the top four, Rafa's cause looks grim because even Roger is beating him more often these days.

Reminds me of Sampras and Agassi. Sampras stopped winning slams in 2002, Agassi in 2003. A year later.

Some people in this thread would do well to remember that Rafa was the finalist in the last 4 slams (and the winner in 1 of the 4). Despite some trolls' eagerness to bury Rafa prematurely, he is still the favorite in every single slam after Djokovic. (And Djoko won't win them all, so draw the conclusions yourself).

Djokovic won 4 of the past 5 slams. He could very well win 4 of the next 5 slams. Who will win the remaining slam is an enigma. It won't necessarily be Nadal. Could be Federer, Murray, even Del Potro.

 

[veroniquem]

But we're talking in terms of chance %, aren't we? I would put Rafa's chances higher than Fed's or Murray's at the moment (which does NOT mean that Fed or Murray have none at all).

 

[celoft]

But we're talking in terms of chance %, aren't we? I would put Rafa's chances higher than Fed's or Murray's at the moment (which does NOT mean that Fed or Murray have none at all).

Federer can beat Djokovic. Nadal can't. Djokovic is the man to beat.

 

[veroniquem]

But Djoko can stumble like he did at IW and for Fed, at RG and even at W, Rafa is still very much the man to beat.

 

[cc0509]

But Djoko can stumble like he did at IW and for Fed, at RG and even at W, Rafa is still very much the man to beat.

Yes, with Djokovic out of the way, Nadal is the man to beat but I am not so sure Djokovic will stumble at the slams as he has at IW and Dubai. I think he will put all of his energy into slams this year. Nadal's best chance of beating Djokovic at the FO this year (if they both make the final) is to defeat Djokovic on clay at one of the pre-FO tournaments. He needs to get some confidence back or he will be in trouble IMO.

 

[monfed]

Yes, with Djokovic out of the way, Nadal is the man to beat but I am not so sure Djokovic will stumble at the slams as he has at IW and Dubai. I think he will put all of his energy into slams this year. Nadal's best chance of beating Djokovic at the FO this year (if they both make the final) is to defeat Djokovic on clay at one of the pre-FO tournaments. He needs to get some confidence back or he will be in trouble IMO.

Djokovic most probably will stumble at Wimbledon. Almost did against Tsonga in 2011.