What aspects of Stan's game Federer lacks nowadays?

[FederErizeD]

The biggest aspect IMO is the movement .. which astonishes me!

Federer apparently has a lighter body than Stan but Fed's movement has gotten considerably less.

Then comes the backhand of course, though I sense a little improvement with the new racquet and maybe there's more to come as he gets used to it more often.

So what else do you think?

 

[Wangtang1]

Top spin backhand
Any sort of endurance or strength
Wawrinka currently has a better serve

Federer has the better variety but that doesn't count for much when 99/100 times the best shot is a hard top spin from the baseline.

 

[Lefty20]

This is easy. He lacks Stan's power(on serve, FH & BH) and confidence(truly shocking, tbh).

His movement was actually better than last year due to his back feeling better.

 

[coloskier]

One thing, the confidence to hit through his backhand. If Fed had Stan's backhand, the H2H would be reversed.

 

[mistik]

Oh come on Fed would have beaten todays Nadal in straight sets.

 

[Hollywood401k]

Stan's core and base is considerably more involved in his backhand than Fed's. Fed's is unstable and wristy and often times hit from an extremely closed stance.

 

[Team10]

This is easy. He lacks Stan's power(on serve, FH & BH) and confidence(truly shocking, tbh).

His movement was actually better than last year due to his back feeling better.

This. Federer still moves better than Stan imo. He just straight up lacks the fire power that he once had to hit through guys like Djokovic and to a lesser extent Nadal.

Almost anyone would have beaten the Nadal we saw today, people are jumping to conclusions way too fast.

 

[bigred1910]

This. Federer still moves better than Stan imo. He just straight up lacks the fire power that he once had to hit through guys like Djokovic and to a lesser extent Nadal.

Almost anyone would have beaten the Nadal we saw today, people are jumping to conclusions way too fast.

first set nadal was playing exceptionally well. dont try to detract from stans achievement.

 

[Team10]

first set nadal was playing exceptionally well. dont try to detract from stans achievement.

I'm not. I'm very happy for Stan actually. He's a great player with a great game. I agree that the first set Nadal looked fine and Stan definitely outplayed him, I wish the whole match was like that with no injuries at all. Would've been a lot better.

I just think people are jumping to conclusions WAY too fast. He's never taken a set from him until today, and yet everyone thinks that Stan is the greatest thing since the invention of TV or something like that. It's 1 win, give it some time. He may end up doing all these great things but I think it's a little premature for all this. I do hope he builds on this and gives the top guys more trouble, maybe even win another slam. It was a great result for him, I wish all the best to Stan with the rest if his career.

I wasn't taking anything away from Stans achievement, happy? Tell me what player in the top 10 wouldn't have beaten Nadal today?

 

[Ruuzo]

Stan's core and base is considerably more involved in his backhand than Fed's. Fed's is unstable and wristy and often times hit from an extremely closed stance.

This is dead on.

 

[FogerRederer]

The full power of youth.











Also facial hair.

 

[Mick]

Wawrinka put away almost all the high balls that landed short. Federer couldn't do this. He could only put it back into play and gave Nadal the opportunity to rip the winners.

 

[Fedinkum]

The gut to take a free swing at Rafa's ball and the intelligence to attack Rafa's backhand consistently.

 

[dysonlu]

Roger doesn't play low-margin tennis; Stan does.

 

[Sentinel]

Does Slamley's western grip have anything to do with this.

 

[poofytail]

Just talking about their current games and abilities, Wawrinka has much more firepower overall (even his forehand currently is being hit with more raw pace and MPH I am pretty sure), a much stronger backhand, and a stronger serve (although Federer is still serving quite well himself). He is also fitter I think.

 

[Bartelby]

Exactly this!

Wawrinka put away almost all the high balls that landed short. Federer couldn't do this. He could only put it back into play and gave Nadal the opportunity to rip the winners.

 

[OTMPut]

Heart
Hunger

 

[Kalin]

Good points, everyone. In one word- power. Stan right now has a bigger serve, bigger FH, much bigger BH.

In the end, it is all mental. With the exception of the serve, Fed can hit as hard as Wawrinka (or almost as hard). But, especially against Nadal, he looks scared to do so thus playing right into Rafa's hands.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

BH of course
Firepower in general from the baseline
Self-belief when playing the top guys

 

[rufus_smith]

The real secret is Stan's stronger lower back

 

[urundai]

Mostly the mindset and mental strength in playing against Nadal in particular.

Maybe BH but it's still decent.

 

[mcenroefan]

Stan has more firepower off both wings and on serve than Fed or pretty much any player on tour. He was hitting through both Nole and Nadal....neither could match his overall package of power.

Over the past 18 months, he has dramatically improved his serve and his FH. Both are now monster weapons. In addition, the guy is just really, really strong. He hits both hard and heavy.

The advantages the top guys have over Stan are movement, perhaps stamina and ROS and experience in the biggest of stages. He attempts to counteract this by going big early in the point and hitting winners.

I am a bit shocked that some people are surprised at what he did to Nadal. They must have thought his match against Nole was a fluke. Keep in mind that Stan only served about 40% in the first set against Nadal...and won the set. Pretty impressive.

IMO, Nole held up better against Stan than Nadal....but he still lost.

That was one of most beastly slam performances that I have ever seen....really good stuff.

I think Stan should do well at all HC tourneys that play medium to fast...perhaps also do well at Wimby. The key for Stan will be managing his fitness and the new pressure at the slams over the course of a season.

 

[swordtennis]

Just watch the 1st two sets of the AO final.
Great serving. Stepping into the court taking the ball early and hitting flat hard shots of both wings. This has always given Nadal fits. The loopy puffballs from the baseline Nadal feeds off of. This is nothing new.
Federer just gets trapped on his backhand and Nadal just wears him out.
Stanimal is stronger and better than Federer now. Federer I hate to say just hangs out on that baseline kinda like he is in his mammas womb.

 

[PennAlum]

Well it's pretty clear that Stan has a better bigger backhand to counter Nadal's heavy forehand crosses. He also has a bigger serve. That's all you really need. If you have a great backhand and a big serve, you can hit through Nadal. Just ask Soderling.

 

[InvisibleSoul]

Especially if we're talking about playing Nadal, the answer seems pretty obvious.

Federer lacks the aggressiveness that Wawrinka displayed.

I would love to know the average ground stroke speed from their matches against Nadal. I would bet that Wawrinka's is way higher.

Federer's shots are slow enough that Nadal can easily dictate play, but Wawrinka's shots are heavy enough that Nadal has to make great defensive gets just to keep the rally going.

 

[maruzo]

I think Fed clearly has mental block now when it comes to playing against Rafa.

He can beat Rafa, if he's confident enough when playing against him.

He's just not.

It's really more mental than any one technical area that needs improvement.

 

[Federer20042006]

...just a reminder...Stan had never won a single set against Nadal before this match.

 

[SLD76]

one word: power.

Fed just isnt as explosive as he used to be, and even at his best, never hit hs bh as ferociously as stan does. And his power, has diminished somewhat over the years.


but lets get one thing straight. styles make fights. matchups matter.

Stan is the fittest and strongest Ive ever seen him. The best way to beat defensive retrievers is just to blow them off court. This is what fed realized when he turned his h2h around with Hewitt. He just started beings super aggressive and attacking hewitt and the rest is history. See USO 2004.

Hence, right now, Stan with his improved fitness and explosie power is a bad matchup for both Rafa and Nole right now.

However, Fed still does ok against djoker and murray..but against Rafa he is hopeless. why?. Because for all stan's strength and power, his game is not the most varied. Hit the fh hard, hit the bh harder.

Meanwhile fed has all manner of spins, angles and shots he can deploy, and that still buys him purchase against every player on tour not named nadal.

Against Nadal, all his variety is worthless because Nadal reacts so quickly to the ball, retrieves it, and crushes it and at fed's age, its a tough ask to dig those shots out all day long.

. Aside from endless grinding( djoker) the only thing that consistently beats nadal is pure raw, well placed power. (delpo, soderling, rosol, berdych, blake back in the day). Guys who are fit, can hang in the rallies, and consistently blast the ball off both wings can beat Nadal. Cue Stan 2.0

That said, if fed this year on a good day played Wawa, he'd have a chance because his variety would keep wawa on his toes and at least keep him guessing. Its easier I think to get in a rythym against nadal because you know what kind of ball you will get 90 percent of the time.

 

[maruzo]

one word: power.

Fed just isnt as explosive as he used to be, and even at his best, never hit hs bh as ferociously as stan does. And his power, has diminished somewhat over the years.


but lets get one thing straight. styles make fights. matchups matter.

Stan is the fittest and strongest Ive ever seen him. The best way to beat defensive retrievers is just to blow them off court. This is what fed realized when he turned his h2h around with Hewitt. He just started beings super aggressive and attacking hewitt and the rest is history. See USO 2004.

Hence, right now, Stan with his improved fitness and explosie power is a bad matchup for both Rafa and Nole right now.

However, Fed still does ok against djoker and murray..but against Rafa he is hopeless. why?. Because for all stan's strength and power, his game is not the most varied. Hit the fh hard, hit the bh harder.

Meanwhile fed has all manner of spins, angles and shots he can deploy, and that still buys him purchase against every player on tour not named nadal.

Against Nadal, all his variety is worthless because Nadal reacts so quickly to the ball, retrieves it, and crushes it and at fed's age, its a tough ask to dig those shots out all day long.

. Aside from endless grinding( djoker) the only thing that consistently beats nadal is pure raw, well placed power. (delpo, soderling, rosol, berdych, blake back in the day). Guys who are fit, can hang in the rallies, and consistently blast the ball off both wings can beat Nadal. Cue Stan 2.0

That said, if fed this year on a good day played Wawa, he'd have a chance because his variety would keep wawa on his toes and at least keep him guessing. Its easier I think to get in a rythym against nadal because you know what kind of ball you will get 90 percent of the time.

100% agree.

Depending on the court conditions, Fed might have a chance against Rafa on faster indoor courts. But aging Fed will have a hard time against a fit and healthy Rafa.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Especially if we're talking about playing Nadal, the answer seems pretty obvious.

Federer lacks the aggressiveness that Wawrinka displayed.

I would love to know the average ground stroke speed from their matches against Nadal. I would bet that Wawrinka's is way higher.

Federer's shots are slow enough that Nadal can easily dictate play, but Wawrinka's shots are heavy enough that Nadal has to make great defensive gets just to keep the rally going.

I think Federer came out pretty agressive in the first set. But agree that Wawrinkas shots are heavier...

 

[Chanwan]

Especially if we're talking about playing Nadal, the answer seems pretty obvious.

Federer lacks the aggressiveness that Wawrinka displayed.

I would love to know the average ground stroke speed from their matches against Nadal. I would bet that Wawrinka's is way higher.

Federer's shots are slow enough that Nadal can easily dictate play, but Wawrinka's shots are heavy enough that Nadal has to make great defensive gets just to keep the rally going.

I think that's true. However, if you think back to the semis, even when Fed was throwing everything at Nadal and making a good forehand what happened was, that if Nadal got a racket on it, he would hit it within one meter of Fed's baseline and the point would start over again. He wasn't as good as getting depth on Stan's shots - perhaps because they were bigger, perhaps because he was nervous in the final.
He tried being super aggressive in the first set and he played well enough to earn some openings. But because Nadal was on the other side of the net, he would net or hit the openings long and not capitalize on his chances.

 

[Smasher08]

Aside from endless grinding( djoker) the only thing that consistently beats nadal is pure raw, well placed power. (delpo, soderling, rosol, berdych, blake back in the day). Guys who are fit, can hang in the rallies, and consistently blast the ball off both wings can beat Nadal. Cue Stan 2.0

That said, if fed this year on a good day played Wawa, he'd have a chance because his variety would keep wawa on his toes and at least keep him guessing. Its easier I think to get in a rythym against nadal because you know what kind of ball you will get 90 percent of the time.

Excellent analysis, and spot on. What makes Djoker unique is that he can grind with Nadal and blast shots when necessary.

Otherwise, you've gotta swing for the fences and blow him off the court. Guys who can hit flatter have a huge advantage when executing this plan, as long as they don't get the yips.

 

[RoddickAce]

Stan has more firepower of both wings nowadays. And when hitting at the same amount of pace, he is also more consistent than Fed.

Stan's volleys are more solid than Fed, Fed may have better touch which is good for drop volleys, great angles, etc., which Rafa can usually chase down. But Stan can really punch the volley and put pressure on rafa. I actually noticed this during their 2008 olymic doubles final, where Stan's volleys were more effective because they had much more punch than Fed's.

 

[Amelie Mauresmo]

The obvious difference is Stan has the superior backhand. Nadal can't break down Stan's backhand it is a huge weapon. Stan hit some amazing backhand down the line and crosscourt.