What do you think about NOT having children?

Razer

Legend
Yes it is very important to have children.

You are not on this earth to just study science/economics/paint/sing etc etc, eat, drink, sleep, watch stupid matches of federer, nadal, novak and then grow old and die without any offsprings. You have a greater purpose on this earth and that is to further your bloodline or have own role in having kids, both men and women have this role.

Too much philosophy makes you nihilistic and nihilism is for losers.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Yes it is very important to have children.

You are not on this earth to just study science/economics/paint/sing etc etc, eat, drink, sleep, watch stupid matches of federer, nadal, novak and then grow old and die without any offsprings. You have a greater purpose on this earth and that is to further your bloodline or have own role in having kids, both men and women have this role.

Too much philosophy makes you nihilistic and nihilism is for losers.

Nicely put.
Would you agree that its also equally important a goal for you not mess the Earth up for the newcomers benefit?
 

Razer

Legend
Clearly this already happens. The problem is that to date there aren't nearly enough of these particular kids coming out of the womb. So, net/net, human procreation is still a negative for the environment. But, hey, that could change at some point. The question is whether humans will be around long enough for that to happen. Who knows.

What is the use of the environment if humans don't exist? The environment actually exists to serve us, of course we are not supposed to destroy it but then the logic that without humans the environment thrives is quite silly.

Very true. A statistician, Galton, worried about this in the 19 century. He felt the government should do things to encourage smart people to have more children. Otherwise, we might get dumber every generation.

dangerous thoughts, more like a caste system of ancient times.
Well talent cannot be planned, einstein's kid was just a normal engineer, so einstein having 10 kids might not produce even 1 einstein.
I think it is immoral to bring people into existence. Every life encounters significant amounts of suffering. This is the POV of philosopher David Benatar. I admire him both for his clarity of thought, and for his courage in espousing ideas that get some people very upset.

Suffering is a part of a human's life, who said being happy is the goal of life ? A fool's paradise is also a paradise where the fool is happy but that doesn't the paradise is a good one. Suffering is ok.

. But don't scoff at those who chose never to go down that road, it's very rewarding as well.

On a cosmic scale there are no rewards, taking vacations, spending more money etc etc is a good thing but end of the day there are no rewards for not having children.

However if someone does have children, then their kids might go on to become popular people, significant people or maybe their kids go on to become that.
Never had one shred of maternal instinct

Don't you have maternal instincts in caring for Rune to do well in his tennis career ? I've seen you care for his growth as a player to become an ATG. Or is it some other type of a crush ? Just wondering.

If everyone decides to stop having kids, what will happen? Not much really.

However, if there are some predatory peoples who continue to have children but want to spread religious fundamentalism, tyranny, fascism, racism, casteism, etc., what happens to the rest of the people who have decided not to have children? At the very least, will the women among them even be allowed that freedom not to have children?

I think one of the main reasons that people had children, apart from the convenience of being taken care of in old age in times when there were no benefits, was to produce more like them who will be automatically against those who are not like them. Till this identity issue comes to an end, survival depends on sane people having children otherwise the peoples I mentioned will prevail, and you will have to endure them till you die. And don't think even dying will be under your control because you could be locked up and kept alive.

I don't think the people not having children have thought through this. Not very long ago, people did not have basic freedoms and were oppressed for life, and it took a lot of new generations to bring about change. As we keep seeing, there are plenty of forces who are trying to ensure that people are not able to vote. Imagine what they will do when they don't have to worry about this (less and less irritating people who want to vote). Do you think they will just go away? No, they will try to enslave the smaller number of people.

This is applicable in case of migrant migrating in huge numbers to certain lands (I won't name any, it is best left to guess, if the shoe fits then so be it), then breeding in large numbers, more like 3:1 to the local population/natives and then soon in 50-70 years the entire demography, the culture all has changed, It happens, procreation is very important for this reason you mentioned.

Raising children was very simple in our parent's time. It has only become very challenging in recent times.

Raising children is always complicated in any era, it is never simple.

I'm guessing thst SOME people should have them otherwise the human race will die out. Would that be a good thing?

It would be a very bad thing and it would defeat out purpose of existing on this earth since we have not yet moved to other planets.

By next century : when you die you could be downloaded into a super computer , so that you would live forever in the cloud and you could control powerful avatars to explore far off worlds

Sounds like altered carbon or caprica or the 100 ? That kind of tech is many centuries away, nobody on this earth right now will probably be around for it.
 
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Razer

Legend
Nicely put.
Would you agree that its also equally important a goal for you not mess the Earth up for the newcomers benefit?

By 2100 we are supposed to reach Type 1, so we will have to tinker with the planet if we are to attain those goals, plus we shall be on mars by then, so it is not a cause to worry I would say. But I do agree, preserving the planet is important until we have a backup.
 
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chrischris

G.O.A.T.
By 2100 we are supposed to reach Type 1, so we will have to tinker with the planet if we are to attain those goals, plus we shall be on mars by then, so it is not a cause to worry I would say. But I do agree, preserving the planet is important until we have a backup.

Are you mostly modest and Realistic as a default mode?
 

Razer

Legend
Are you mostly modest and Realistic as a default mode?

I mostly am, why do you ask? You worry about the environment but I said it shall be fine if we become Type 1 by 2100 as per the plan. Elon Musk and co are working towards it as we speak. I also believe that humans have to keep on having kids, even if that is just 1-2 then so be it, but that is how the balance of society is to be sustained.
 
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chrischris

G.O.A.T.
I mostly am, why do you ask? You worry about the environment but I said it shall be fine if we become Type 1 by 2100 as per the plan. Elon Musk and co are working towards it as we speak.
Its just a question nothing to worry about.
Im not worried. Im past that. What frightens you and what excites you about the deterioration of our life on planet earth since we are killing off the environment that supports the economy and life overall.?
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
The only clear thing here is that in modern times, the progress of human race translates in starting to have children after physical primes and peaks.
 

TheNachoMan

Legend
Just have kids before you’re too old or your kids will end up being all kinds of messed up.

Not speaking from experience of course..
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
I have a daughter, its one thing i could never regret, it really made my life fuller, but i wouldnt judge a person for not wanting to have children, i personally find it difficult to think of getting old and not having a little you to take care and teach, some people become very unhappy, when you are 30 or so, if you dont want children, maybe you can do more things for yourself, but as you get older, i really find living for yourself very empty, maybe if you are so focused in your profesional life or in partying or whatever, it can take some more years to arrive this feeling, but i dont know how to explain it, yes, you have more things to do, more things to worry about, less money, but it adds another dimension to your life, like, it just gets bigger, fuller, deeper, at least thats how i feel it
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I was brought up with a value system that venerated getting married, having kids, being a good husband/father etc. over other accomplishments in life. So, it was natural for me to follow that path without thinking about too much about it. My kids have been the greatest joy in my life since they were born.

At the same time, I know that the value system in developed countries is very different and I don‘t question people who make different life choices when it comes to marriage or kids. What we think is ’normal’ is mostly what the culture around us and our families ingrained into us when we are young.
 

Razer

Legend
Its just a question nothing to worry about.
Im not worried. Im past that. What frightens you and what excites you about the deterioration of our life on planet earth since we are killing off the environment that supports the economy and life overall.?

We are not killing off the environment. We do not possess the powers to truly destroy this planet, not yet. For that we would have to be at least a Type 2 Civilization.

I'll explain what this means since terms like type 1 and type 2 might sound very confusing to most people.



There are 7 Types of Civilization in reality, it is explained in a scale of levels called the Kardashev Scale.


Type 0 :
Stone Age - this is the phase at a which a species begins, people living in huts/caves, creating fire etc etc ....

Type 1 : Planetary Control - An advanced species that is capable of extracting every power in its home planet, i.e not just solar energy, wind energy, water, nuclear .....This means everything, even the earth' core we should know how to generate energy from it.

Type 2 : Solar System level control - A species which can extract not just power of the earth, but also from the sun that provides it. That means structures called Dyson Spheres shall be built around the Sun to control all its energy and of course we will be able to control the other 8-9 planets as well.

Type 3 : Galaxy level control : A species which has evolved to such a level that it can control the entire galaxy it is in, lets say Milky Way Galaxy that we are in. We have control over all the stars in it and all the planets, that would be Type 3 level civilization.

Type 4 : Galaxy Supercluster level control : A species so advanced that it is good enough to harness and control the energies of a cluster of galaxies. At this level creating stars/planets would all be child's play for the species.

Type 5 : Entire Universe level Control : A species so advanced that it is capable of harnessing the entire powers of the universe it is in. This means the species (humans in our case) would have evolved to such a degree that it can travel to other universes back and forth, laws of physics can be altered and manipulated. At this level creating galaxies or destroying them within your own universe would be child's play.

Type 6 : Multiverse level control - Now You control all the different universes that exist in your multiverse and you also can create/destroy a universe a will. Big Bangs can be started and ended at will here, it means complete mastery of all universes within the multiverse.

Type 7 : This level exists outside the multiverse. That means outside the realm of existence - GOD exists here, Truly Omnipresent, Truly Omniscienct, Truly Omnipotent.


Now coming back to where humans stand in 2023. Scientists estimate that we are currently at Type 0.7 on the Kardashev Scale and by the year 2100 AD we shall reach Type 1, and then it will take another 700-800 years to reach Type 2..... After that it might take another 100,000 years minimum to reach Type 3. A typical Type 3 civilization would be what we see in Star Trek movies where we have the power to travel from 1 star to another star at Warp Speeds that approach the speed of light.
It is said in the Sumerian tablets that GOD (an advanced race on the K Scale) came to earth 200,000 years ago and created the first man (Abrahamic religions call it as Adam, hinduism calls it as Manu, but it all the same), that was probably first of the many apes who were created by aliens by genetically mutating the DNA and giving us extra intelligence to progress faster. It is said that we were created as slave species for mining gold.


Now we come to the answer to your question, we are not capable of destroying the planet, if our attempts at tinkering with the energy levels of the earth go wrong by 2100 and we don't have a backup planet then we shall not reach Type 1, we shall perish. The planet will live, it will heal itself like a body heals itself with fever and kills the virus/parasite that it hosts.

Then what happens after we are extinct ???

Our gods (probably type 5 or above) are watching us and they shall once again come to earth and "terraform" the earth to create/facilitate the rise of a new species, maybe not man ? Something else this time ? I don't know, but what I do know is that the earth is in no danger from us until we reach Type 2, it is the we who have to worry. Gods are watching us, they are not interfering as of now, 1 giant asteroid is what it shall take to wipe us like they wiped out the dinosaurs 65 Million Years ago. The Great floods happened and Noah's ark saved humans, right? Who send those asteroids/floods? It is our Gods.

So don't worry about global warming or population explosion, just have kids, try to teach them to survive & to be scientific, rest will all happen as per God's plan or based on natural selection. But having kids is very important, that is why God created us 200,000 years ago so that we could keep on progressing on the kardashev scale, thats the aim of human life on this earth.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
We are not killing off the environment. We do not possess the powers to truly destroy this planet, not yet. For that we would have to be at least a Type 2 Civilization.

I'll explain what this means since terms like type 1 and type 2 might sound very confusing to most people.



There are 7 Types of Civilization in reality, it is explained in a scale of levels called the Kardashev Scale.


Type 0 :
Stone Age - this is the phase at a which a species begins, people living in huts/caves, creating fire etc etc ....

Type 1 : Planetary Control - An advanced species that is capable of extracting every power in its home planet, i.e not just solar energy, wind energy, water, nuclear .....This means everything, even the earth' core we should know how to generate energy from it.

Type 2 : Solar System level control - A species which can extract not just power of the earth, but also from the sun that provides it. That means structures called Dyson Spheres shall be built around the Sun to control all its energy and of course we will be able to control the other 8-9 planets as well.

Type 3 : Galaxy level control : A species which has evolved to such a level that it can control the entire galaxy it is in, lets say Milky Way Galaxy that we are in. We have control over all the stars in it and all the planets, that would be Type 3 level civilization.

Type 4 : Galaxy Supercluster level control : A species so advanced that it is good enough to harness and control the energies of a cluster of galaxies. At this level creating stars/planets would all be child's play for the species.

Type 5 : Entire Universe level Control : A species so advanced that it is capable of harnessing the entire powers of the universe it is in. This means the species (humans in our case) would have evolved to such a degree that it can travel to other universes back and forth, laws of physics can be altered and manipulated. At this level creating galaxies or destroying them within your own universe would be child's play.

Type 6 : Multiverse level control - Now You control all the different universes that exist in your multiverse and you also can create/destroy a universe a will. Big Bangs can be started and ended at will here, it means complete mastery of all universes within the multiverse.

Type 7 : This level exists outside the multiverse. That means outside the realm of existence - GOD exists here, Truly Omnipresent, Truly Omniscienct, Truly Omnipotent.


Now coming back to where humans stand in 2023. Scientists estimate that we are currently at Type 0.7 on the Kardashev Scale and by the year 2100 AD we shall reach Type 1, and then it will take another 700-800 years to reach Type 2..... After that it might take another 100,000 years minimum to reach Type 3. A typical Type 3 civilization would be what we see in Star Trek movies where we have the power to travel from 1 star to another star at Warp Speeds that approach the speed of light.
It is said in the Sumerian tablets that GOD (an advanced race on the K Scale) came to earth 200,000 years ago and created the first man (Abrahamic religions call it as Adam, hinduism calls it as Manu, but it all the same), that was probably first of the many apes who were created by aliens by genetically mutating the DNA and giving us extra intelligence to progress faster. It is said that we were created as slave species for mining gold.


Now we come to the answer to your question, we are not capable of destroying the planet, if our attempts at tinkering with the energy levels of the earth go wrong by 2100 and we don't have a backup planet then we shall not reach Type 1, we shall perish. The planet will live, it will heal itself like a body heals itself with fever and kills the virus/parasite that it hosts.

Then what happens after we are extinct ???

Our gods (probably type 5 or above) are watching us and they shall once again come to earth and "terraform" the earth to create/facilitate the rise of a new species, maybe not man ? Something else this time ? I don't know, but what I do know is that the earth is in no danger from us until we reach Type 2, it is the we who have to worry. Gods are watching us, they are not interfering as of now, 1 giant asteroid is what it shall take to wipe us like they wiped out the dinosaurs 65 Million Years ago. The Great floods happened and Noah's ark saved humans, right? Who send those asteroids/floods? It is our Gods.

So don't worry about global warming or population explosion, just have kids, try to teach them to survive & to be scientific, rest will all happen as per God's plan or based on natural selection. But having kids is very important, that is why God created us 200,000 years ago so that we could keep on progressing on the kardashev scale, thats the aim of human life on this earth.
Wow man
 

Razer

Legend
He just forgot to tell us that!

They (gods) did tell us that, they helped us build the pyramids, they introduced us to agriculture, literature, laws and many things, man formed religions based on teachings of these ancient astronauts/travelers and the religions became corrupt. That still doesn't mean the original concepts are changed, you have to live your life, you have to try to procreate, you have to take up responsibility for your kids in whatever capacity you can, doing all this you have to enjoy life with the suffering/happiness that come with it. So the core ideas are the same, but if someone is greedy enough/selfish enough to just use high population / growing cost of living / not liking kids as an excuse to not have kids then so be it, but that doesn't mean the core foundations of society which were designed to make man progress on the K scale have changed, this is my point.
 
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chrischris

G.O.A.T.
We are not killing off the environment. We do not possess the powers to truly destroy this planet, not yet. For that we would have to be at least a Type 2 Civilization.

I'll explain what this means since terms like type 1 and type 2 might sound very confusing to most people.



There are 7 Types of Civilization in reality, it is explained in a scale of levels called the Kardashev Scale.


Type 0 :
Stone Age - this is the phase at a which a species begins, people living in huts/caves, creating fire etc etc ....

Type 1 : Planetary Control - An advanced species that is capable of extracting every power in its home planet, i.e not just solar energy, wind energy, water, nuclear .....This means everything, even the earth' core we should know how to generate energy from it.

Type 2 : Solar System level control - A species which can extract not just power of the earth, but also from the sun that provides it. That means structures called Dyson Spheres shall be built around the Sun to control all its energy and of course we will be able to control the other 8-9 planets as well.

Type 3 : Galaxy level control : A species which has evolved to such a level that it can control the entire galaxy it is in, lets say Milky Way Galaxy that we are in. We have control over all the stars in it and all the planets, that would be Type 3 level civilization.

Type 4 : Galaxy Supercluster level control : A species so advanced that it is good enough to harness and control the energies of a cluster of galaxies. At this level creating stars/planets would all be child's play for the species.

Type 5 : Entire Universe level Control : A species so advanced that it is capable of harnessing the entire powers of the universe it is in. This means the species (humans in our case) would have evolved to such a degree that it can travel to other universes back and forth, laws of physics can be altered and manipulated. At this level creating galaxies or destroying them within your own universe would be child's play.

Type 6 : Multiverse level control - Now You control all the different universes that exist in your multiverse and you also can create/destroy a universe a will. Big Bangs can be started and ended at will here, it means complete mastery of all universes within the multiverse.

Type 7 : This level exists outside the multiverse. That means outside the realm of existence - GOD exists here, Truly Omnipresent, Truly Omniscienct, Truly Omnipotent.


Now coming back to where humans stand in 2023. Scientists estimate that we are currently at Type 0.7 on the Kardashev Scale and by the year 2100 AD we shall reach Type 1, and then it will take another 700-800 years to reach Type 2..... After that it might take another 100,000 years minimum to reach Type 3. A typical Type 3 civilization would be what we see in Star Trek movies where we have the power to travel from 1 star to another star at Warp Speeds that approach the speed of light.
It is said in the Sumerian tablets that GOD (an advanced race on the K Scale) came to earth 200,000 years ago and created the first man (Abrahamic religions call it as Adam, hinduism calls it as Manu, but it all the same), that was probably first of the many apes who were created by aliens by genetically mutating the DNA and giving us extra intelligence to progress faster. It is said that we were created as slave species for mining gold.


Now we come to the answer to your question, we are not capable of destroying the planet, if our attempts at tinkering with the energy levels of the earth go wrong by 2100 and we don't have a backup planet then we shall not reach Type 1, we shall perish. The planet will live, it will heal itself like a body heals itself with fever and kills the virus/parasite that it hosts.

Then what happens after we are extinct ???

Our gods (probably type 5 or above) are watching us and they shall once again come to earth and "terraform" the earth to create/facilitate the rise of a new species, maybe not man ? Something else this time ? I don't know, but what I do know is that the earth is in no danger from us until we reach Type 2, it is the we who have to worry. Gods are watching us, they are not interfering as of now, 1 giant asteroid is what it shall take to wipe us like they wiped out the dinosaurs 65 Million Years ago. The Great floods happened and Noah's ark saved humans, right? Who send those asteroids/floods? It is our Gods.

So don't worry about global warming or population explosion, just have kids, try to teach them to survive & to be scientific, rest will all happen as per God's plan or based on natural selection. But having kids is very important, that is why God created us 200,000 years ago so that we could keep on progressing on the kardashev scale, thats the aim of human life on this earth.
Oh Yes we are and yes we can. Sad but quite true. Try to grasp that fact.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
They (gods) did tell us that, they helped us build the pyramids, they introduced us to agriculture, literature, laws and many things, man formed religions based on teachings of these ancient astronauts/travelers and the religions became corrupt. That still doesn't mean the original concepts are changed, you have to live your life, you have to try to procreate, you have to take up responsibility for your kids in whatever capacity you can, doing all this you have to enjoy life with the suffering/happiness that come with it. So the core ideas are the same, but if someone is greedy enough/selfish enough to just use high population / growing cost of living / not liking kids as an excuse to not have kids then so be it, but that doesn't mean the core foundations of society which were designed to make man progress on the K scale have changed, this is my point.
You should write a book.
 

Razer

Legend
You should write a book.

Nevermind, I was just explaining to the poster above who asked my thoughts on overpopulation & environment being ruined. I could have just said we deserve to be destroyed if we ruin the earth's environment or maybe I could have said God would punish us for our actions, but that would sound too religious or simplistic way of dealing things. Thats why I had to explain how religions started, what is god, what is the purpose of creating us, how the earth terraforms itself ever now and then when imbalance rises and how we have to do what we do but if we fail we take the consequences too etc etc. All this is already there in books and on tv, so no I don't need to write a book or anything. Everybody has free will, so they can do what they chose to.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Nevermind, I was just explaining to the poster above who asked my thoughts on overpopulation & environment being ruined. I could have just said we deserve to be destroyed if we ruin the earth's environment or maybe I could have said God would punish us for our actions, but that would sound too religious or simplistic way of dealing things. Thats why I had to explain how religions started, what is god, what is the purpose of creating us, how the earth terraforms itself ever now and then when imbalance rises and how we have to do what we do but if we fail we take the consequences too etc etc. All this is already there in books and on tv, so no I don't need to write a book or anything. Everybody has free will, so they can do what they chose to.

Everybody doesnt have totally free will.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Considering the average behaviour of children out in public, do us all a favor and limit your breeding.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Considering the average behaviour of children out in public, do us all a favor and limit your breeding.

Thats the parents behavior you are seeing mainly. Will continue to be a bother for you and me until parents Become leaders rather than Bosses.
Mind you, im not flatly blaming the parents. They usually have their own issues, largely unexamined/untreated and inaddjtiln may feel disimpowered in their lives. At work and in the 1%dilemma plus clinate change guilt war housing fears fb / insta addition etc etc..
 

LuckyR

Legend
Thats the parents behavior you are seeing mainly. Will continue to be a bother for you and me until parents Become leaders rather than Bosses.
Mind you, im not flatly blaming the parents. They usually have their own issues, largely unexamined/untreated and inaddjtiln may feel disimpowered in their lives. At work and in the 1%dilemma plus clinate change guilt war housing fears fb / insta addition etc etc..
I completely agree, though your observation strengthens mine.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
I completely agree, though your observation strengthens mine.

Gabor Maté has fairly good insight into the dilemma of being a child and being trauma imoacted or just absorbing the emotions as a child 0 to 3 years old sets your default mode fairly much...
 

LuckyR

Legend
Gabor Maté has fairly good insight into the dilemma of being a child and being trauma imoacted or just absorbing the emotions as a child 0 to 3 years old sets your default mode fairly much...
Basically being a good parent is a skill entirely beyond many people and beyond even more at the time in their lives they actually have children.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Basically being a good parent is a skill entirely beyond many people and beyond even more at the time in their lives they actually have children.

Being present and in tune i.e.. Imagoning being the child opens up the Mind. Then its possible to enjoy being a parent and lead the kid into a good life together. Not apart and into problems.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
Its all about love - had the privilege of parenting my 3 loud men, no longer boys at 15, 18 and 20 respectively. It has been the single biggest joy I have had in my 51 soon to be 52 years.

Like any 'job' its tough and has its ups and downs, nobody gets any training and we usually bring some bad habits in from experiences with our parents. There are to many qualities required to list, and to be fair I would more than likely miss a few, who's perfect? But with love in the heart and commitment to guide and nurture you'll do ok. I strongly believe in hard work, manners, respect, family and kindness amongst others and happy to have passed those on at least. Where they get that love of PS4 I don't know ... wasn't me 8-B

Did I do a god job, the answer to that question is how you value the qualities and actions of my kids. I think they've done well but I'm biased. I know I am proud of them.

Companionship and family are true gold, the rest is just stuff.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Its all about love - had the privilege of parenting my 3 loud men, no longer boys at 15, 18 and 20 respectively. It has been the single biggest joy I have had in my 51 soon to be 52 years.

Like any 'job' its tough and has its ups and downs, nobody gets any training and we usually bring some bad habits in from experiences with our parents. There are to many qualities required to list, and to be fair I would more than likely miss a few, who's perfect? But with love in the heart and commitment to guide and nurture you'll do ok. I strongly believe in hard work, manners, respect, family and kindness amongst others and happy to have passed those on at least. Where they get that love of PS4 I don't know ... wasn't me 8-B

Did I do a god job, the answer to that question is how you value the qualities and actions of my kids. I think they've done well but I'm biased. I know I am proud of them.

Companionship and family are true gold, the rest is just stuff.
Exactly my point, you started being a parent after 30.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Just remind me your point on age of parent post 30.
Premise 1- Parenting well requires a certain amount of motivation and skill

Fact 2- Some will never enough of one or both.

Premise 3- Some will develop skills over time such they while they might be terrible parents when young adults but could be great parents at a later time.
 

USMC-615

Hall of Fame
To each their own when it comes to having children. I’ve got a 31 yr old son and a 24 yr old daughter. Both are educated, highly responsible, hard working, support themselves adults and a joy to be around. Wouldn’t trade them nor the experience of raising them for nothing and if I had to do it all over again for both at soon to be 56 yrs old, I’d do it in a NY minute. Was it always a cake walk and peachy, absolutely not, and don’t ever think it will be to you younger folks who‘ve yet to have children. It’s just life and how you navigate the daily hand you’re dealt...some days are good hands, some days not so good hands but it all works itself out.
 
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Azure

G.O.A.T.
To each their own when it comes to having children. I’ve got a 31 yr old son and a 24 yr old daughter. Both are educated, highly responsible, hard working, support themselves adults and a joy to be around. Wouldn’t trade them nor the experience of raising them for nothing and if I had to do it all over again for both at soon to be 56 yrs old, I’d do it in a NY minute. Was it always a cake walk and peachy, absolutely not, and don’t ever think it will be to you younger folks who‘ve yet to have children. It’s just life and how you navigate the daily hand you’re dealt...some days are good hands, some days not so good hands but it all works itself out.
I liked your post but for the last bit. How does it all work itself out? I know so many dysfunctional families, estranged children, lonely parents etc. You got dealt with good children. Thats part you and part nature/luck whatever you want to call it.
 

USMC-615

Hall of Fame
I liked your post but for the last bit. How does it all work itself out? I know so many dysfunctional families, estranged children, lonely parents etc. You got dealt with good children. Thats part you and part nature/luck whatever you want to call it.
Well…some days were good and everything fell into place, and some days were nowhere near as good as to how things unfolded. That’s just the way it works. Raising children brings into the equation every variable you can imagine...if you’ve had children you certainly understand that. What you do is make the best decisions you can, leverage everything with a helluva lot of give and take, and sometimes the total sum works itself out. Was it part me, part their mother, and themselves, of course it was a culmination of all. And I agree with your ‘luck’ comment…a helluva dose of that as well. One thing their mother and I always did was keep them in team and/or individual sports and they wanted to play sports all their younger years. That in itself especially when they played baseball/softball, football, basketball, volleyball, etc throws a crazy wrench into the logistics equation but the maturing, social development, skills, etc far outweigh anything else you could put in its’ place.

I’ll explain why I say “their mother” like I do…we divorced back in ‘06 after an 18 yr marriage. Just want you to understand why I refer to her that way. She and I live 8 miles from each other, she’s never re-married nor have I. We’ve never had a bad word with each other since the day we divorced, she still comes to my home and eats, etc if she wants, I do the same at her home. We still talk quite often. If I’m in a relationship she of course has zero problem with that, and likewise. One thing I engineered when we divorced…the kids will not under any circumstances get caught up in any bs whatsoever because of the divorce. She and I even had the same attorney in the divorce…it was as amicable and stress-free as you could possibly imagine. And yes, it was a one in a million divorce, but it worked and our kids are so much better for it.

As far as dysfunctional families, my growing up as the youngest of 11 children (6 older brothers/4 older sisters) was probably the poster family of dysfunctionality in the 50’s/60’s/70’s. With that many kids something’s always bound to go wrong. I learned a lot growing up with that crew of older brothers/sisters and a lot earlier in age than I ever should have. If my childhood taught me anything for my later years of raising children, it taught me how not to raise kids. It was some tough years and some real tough love growing up in the home I grew up in. I damn sure wasn’t gonna repeat that with my own.

I don’t know if this helps explain anything or not…just telling you how it was without writing a novel.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Well…some days were good and everything fell into place, and some days were nowhere near as good as to how things unfolded. That’s just the way it works. Raising children brings into the equation every variable you can imagine...if you’ve had children you certainly understand that. What you do is make the best decisions you can, leverage everything with a helluva lot of give and take, and sometimes the total sum works itself out. Was it part me, part their mother, and themselves, of course it was a culmination of all. And I agree with your ‘luck’ comment…a helluva dose of that as well. One thing their mother and I always did was keep them in team and/or individual sports and they wanted to play sports all their younger years. That in itself especially when they played baseball/softball, football, basketball, volleyball, etc throws a crazy wrench into the logistics equation but the maturing, social development, skills, etc far outweigh anything else you could put in its’ place.

I’ll explain why I say “their mother” like I do…we divorced back in ‘06 after an 18 yr marriage. Just want you to understand why I refer to her that way. She and I live 8 miles from each other, she’s never re-married nor have I. We’ve never had a bad word with each other since the day we divorced, she still comes to my home and eats, etc if she wants, I do the same at her home. We still talk quite often. If I’m in a relationship she of course has zero problem with that, and likewise. One thing I engineered when we divorced…the kids will not under any circumstances get caught up in any bs whatsoever because of the divorce. She and I even had the same attorney in the divorce…it was as amicable and stress-free as you could possibly imagine. And yes, it was a one in a million divorce, but it worked and our kids are so much better for it.

As far as dysfunctional families, my growing up as the youngest of 11 children (6 older brothers/4 older sisters) was probably the poster family of dysfunctionality in the 50’s/60’s/70’s. With that many kids something’s always bound to go wrong. I learned a lot growing up with that crew of older brothers/sisters and a lot earlier in age than I ever should have. If my childhood taught me anything for my later years of raising children, it taught me how not to raise kids. It was some tough years and some real tough love growing up in the home I grew up in. I damn sure wasn’t gonna repeat that with my own.

I don’t know if this helps explain anything or not…just telling you how it was without writing a novel.
Thanks for sharing your life! Yes of course its not easy, it never is. The reason I found the last bit of "it works out" a bit odd is because of a few incidents I have seen around me. I understand though that this has worked out for you and I am happy that it turned out well for you but I also am aware of situations in families where things unfortunately never worked out and its heartbreaking to hear about those stories. Its a gamble and those who want to take it, take it and those who don't, we can respect people for their choices I guess.
 

USMC-615

Hall of Fame
Thanks for sharing your life! Yes of course its not easy, it never is. The reason I found the last bit of "it works out" a bit odd is because of a few incidents I have seen around me. I understand though that this has worked out for you and I am happy that it turned out well for you but I also am aware of situations in families where things unfortunately never worked out and its heartbreaking to hear about those stories. Its a gamble and those who want to take it, take it and those who don't, we can respect people for their choices I guess.
Unfortunately I’ve seen my share of broken homes, broken kids, broken adults within my own sibling families over the decades, and of course outside of family as well. I hate seeing adults and especially children go through it.
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Its all about love - had the privilege of parenting my 3 loud men, no longer boys at 15, 18 and 20 respectively. It has been the single biggest joy I have had in my 51 soon to be 52 years.

Like any 'job' its tough and has its ups and downs, nobody gets any training and we usually bring some bad habits in from experiences with our parents. There are to many qualities required to list, and to be fair I would more than likely miss a few, who's perfect? But with love in the heart and commitment to guide and nurture you'll do ok. I strongly believe in hard work, manners, respect, family and kindness amongst others and happy to have passed those on at least. Where they get that love of PS4 I don't know ... wasn't me 8-B

Did I do a god job, the answer to that question is how you value the qualityties and actions of my kids. I think they've done well but I'm biased. I know I am proud of them.

Companionship and family are true gold, the rest is just stuff.

Very true. We need to avoid Messing the planet and there by the economy up too... I do my bit, its a great emotion so . Enjoy.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I liked your post but for the last bit. How does it all work itself out? I know so many dysfunctional families, estranged children, lonely parents etc. You got dealt with good children. Thats part you and part nature/luck whatever you want to call it.
I disagree. Some good parents get BAD luck/genetics, but having good/great kids is usually due to good/great parenting. Or put another way, the chance of good parents getting good kids is much, much higher than bad parents getting good kids.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
I disagree. Some good parents get BAD luck/genetics, but having good/great kids is usually due to good/great parenting. Or put another way, the chance of good parents getting good kids is much, much higher than bad parents getting good kids.
Oh that was not my point at all. Its not "how they turn out" but "how they are born". My biggest, biggest fear is having kids that are born unhealthy. Its my largest paranoia in life. You may be the greatest of parents on earth but there is nothing that can come off of it. Your child will most probably outlive you and then how do things work out? I had one such second cousin whose mum was single handedly taking care of her and whose other children kind of abandoned them. The mother passed. The daughter was not fully functional to care for herself. She was left all alone and that loss hit her so bad that she rapidly deteriorated and a year later she, if I may say so, thankfully passed too. That's where I was coming from. Things don't work themselves out in this scenario and this is one example - I have many more where its just as tragic or more.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Oh that was not my point at all. Its not "how they turn out" but "how they are born". My biggest, biggest fear is having kids that are born unhealthy. Its my largest paranoia in life. You may be the greatest of parents on earth but there is nothing that can come off of it. Your child will most probably outlive you and then how do things work out? I had one such second cousin whose mum was single handedly taking care of her and whose other children kind of abandoned them. The mother passed. The daughter was not fully functional to care for herself. She was left all alone and that loss hit her so bad that she rapidly deteriorated and a year later she, if I may say so, thankfully passed too. That's where I was coming from. Things don't work themselves out in this scenario and this is one example - I have many more where its just as tragic or more.
Got it. You're right, every choice carries risk. If it makes you feel any better, 97% of newborns in the US have no birth defects.
 
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