What should rising Djokovic have done differently?
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intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Farage had originally posted the video after being invited there by Djokovic’s brother then Murray reposted the same video with comments, “Please record the awkward moment when you tell them you’ve spent most of your career campaigning to have people from Eastern Europe deported ”
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"
#Imhotep
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
The circumstances are completely different lol. All I can say is if you think Nigel Farage is an extremist for wanting to drastically limit immigration and for believing that multiculturalism has been a disaster for the UK then there's a helluva lot of extremists currently living in this country.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
What circumstances are completely different? Nigel Farage is a far-right extremist who in keeping with standard tropes blames anything and everything on immigration. Your statements about multiculturalism are consistent with right-wing tropes so it makes sense that you see Farage as sensible.
Farage by the way, didn't want simply to 'limit immigration' but in fact singled out Eastern Europeans as the wrong kind of immigrants and wanted to privilege...Australian immigrants:
Nigel Farage: Indian and Australian immigrants better than eastern Europeans
Ukip leader says two countries are more similar to the UK as he admits using heightened rhetoric about immigration to boost general election campaign
www.theguardian.com
Too fitting.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Why is he responsible for what his family says or does?
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Are you actually asking me why in the court of public opinion would it matter to people that Djokovic's mother, father, wife and brother made outrageous statements and decisions repeatedly without him ever intervening to distance himself from those positions or to press those responsible to refrain from doing so?
The question answers itself. It's also very easy and convenient to have your closest allies say the incendiary things that you also believe and would like said but want to maintain a paper thin separation between the statements and your person.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, now that's just not true. Srdjan, and specially Dijana toned it down a lot after the "king is dead" thing. Also their animosity towards Federer isn't all that unjustified. There was a match where Fed yelled at the Djokovic box telling them to shut up, which is pretty classless if you ask me.
skaj
Legend
He doesn't have his own mind, his thinking is one of a typical uneducated, brain-washed Serbian person. He has the mind of the mases(only Serbian ones). He is everything but anti-establishment, he has been friendly with every Serbian government so far, including the current de facto mafia government led by a former Milosevic' associate.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Nah, it is true. Djokovic's family has made incendiary statements many, many times through his career and not just about Federer. They have compared Djokovic to Jesus and Spartacus and said he was on a crusade against the 'decadent West.'
They keep doing all of this and Novak doesn't say a word. People can make the connection and see that Djokovic's closest representatives all do this and that maybe he's quite fine with it.
By the way, Federer told Djokovic's box "to be quiet" not to shut up and he didn't 'yell" it either. Djokovic's parents had been yapping for quite a while before that point, in fact.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I wasn’t talking about Serbian governments. More amount the ATP or Australia or America policies. If he believes in something he sticks to it which I respect. We have to respect his way on life and how what he thinks is best for him and his body.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
plenty to change though
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Nothing, he was always the party pooper. He did what he had to do.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I didn't say they make incendiary statements, just that they have toned them down a lot from the early years
Tomato, tomahto
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Is all this from 2022 'toning it down':
“Tonight they can throw him in a dungeon; tomorrow they can put him in chains. The truth is he is like water and water paves its own path. Novak is the Spartacus of the new world which won’t tolerate injustice, colonialism and hypocrisy.”
“Jesus was crucified on the cross but he is still alive among us. They are trying to crucify and belittle Novak and throw him to his knees...Novak is the best player and the best athlete in the world, but several hundred million people from the West can’t stomach that.”
"I call on the Queen of Britain, Elizabeth, the leader of the Commonwealth, to intervene and protect the human rights of my son Novak Djokovic and to stop the political prosecution that has been carried out against him since he came to Australia"
"The attempt to assassinate the best athlete in the world has ended. 50 bullets in Novak's chest."
I won't even attempt to transcribe Djokovic's family and the discussions with Nigel Farage after they invited him to Belgrade.
As for the difference between yelling 'shut up' and asking someone who has been yapping repeatedly for a while to 'be quiet' while you're playing, it's obvious that you got caught playing fast and loose with the facts.
skaj
Legend
You were talking about him having his own mind and being anti-establishment. I explained why is that not the case(it's completely opposite actually). He's just a part of a different establishment, and his way of thinking is typical for many if not most people in his country.
We don't have to respect his way of life, and what he thinks is best for him and his body is his business and has nothing to do with all of this.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Djokovic and his 'anti-establishment thinking':
In 2021, Djokovic found himself criticised for his visit to Bosnia after photographs surfaced of his meeting with a commander of the “Drina Wolves”, a unit that took part in the 1995 Srebrenica genocide where more than 8,000 Bosniak men and boys were summarily executed over the course of three days in July solely for their nominal Muslim faith.
Later on, a video showed Djokovic singing at a wedding, embraced by the Bosnian Serb nationalist leader Milorad Dodik, whose separatist tendencies are currently causing the biggest crisis in the country since the end of the 1992-1995 war.
His stances on Kosovo are widely known. The former province of Serbia that broke away after the 1999 NATO bombing and a decade of ethnic cleansing policies against ethnic Albanians spearheaded by Slobodan Milošević is a weak point for many Serbian nationalists and politicians.
After large protests broke out in Belgrade over Kosovo’s declaration of independence in 2008, Djokovic famously recorded a video saying “We are prepared to defend what is rightfully ours. Kosovo is Serbia.”
After the Serbian national team won the ATP Cup in 2020, Djokovic, together with his teammates, sang nationalist songs, including “Vidovdan” — a common tune about Kosovo that featured prominently during the wars of the disintegration of Yugoslavia.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic's fans live in the land of make believe.
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jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
All of this is from Srdjan
And why has boy wonder never once took the oppertunity at a press conference to tell the world that maybe dad was being a tad too emotional?
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
So? That's his very public father saying all that. Does that look 'toned down' to you? Did you see his brother talking with Nigel Farage? Does that sound 'toned down' to you? No one but Novak seems to have these issues and to let all this happen and never distance himself and suggest that any of it was misplaced...people can make all of these connections and have done so.
“Tonight they can throw him in a dungeon; tomorrow they can put him in chains. The truth is he is like water and water paves its own path. Novak is the Spartacus of the new world which won’t tolerate injustice, colonialism and hypocrisy.”
“Jesus was crucified on the cross but he is still alive among us. They are trying to crucify and belittle Novak and throw him to his knees...Novak is the best player and the best athlete in the world, but several hundred million people from the West can’t stomach that.”
"I call on the Queen of Britain, Elizabeth, the leader of the Commonwealth, to intervene and protect the human rights of my son Novak Djokovic and to stop the political prosecution that has been carried out against him since he came to Australia"
"The attempt to assassinate the best athlete in the world has ended. 50 bullets in Novak's chest."
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This is honestly so overdramatic that it's hard to take it too seriously
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
First you say Djokovic's family has 'toned down' then you are forced to say it's the opposite of 'toned down' but now that's a virtue such that it can't be taken seriously.
Like I said, plenty of people saw these things and have seen it through the years and it reflects very poorly on Djokovic.
There's a reason why he gets booed just for stepping on court at a slam.
Humphrey20133
Semi-Pro
The Djerkovic family has done everything but "tone it down" over the years. If anything, their mouths have gotten even bigger, embarrassing, and ignorant, while Djesus just sits there and says nothing. They have said some outrageous things about Federer and Nadal over the years and have shown no signs of stopping. Their behavior has been abhorrent for at least 15 years, and to pretend otherwise is just pathetic. Does anyone remember the Djerkovic's throwing a damn party during the rain delay during the final of RG in 2012 because they thought they had already won? I certainly do, and they did it with Rafa's family right next to them. Disgusting family, period.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
What outrageous things have they said about Nadal? For that matter, what "outrageous" things have they said about FEDERER (who they don't even like)?
They talk about Novak being persecuted (hard not to do so after seeing the treatment he gets from Western media, by the way), but I don't recall anything outrageous said about his rivals at all
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socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic should have trusted western medicine and gone to see a proper doctor about the various respiratory issues that derailed many of his matches. Maybe his gluten allergy could have been diagnosed earlier and he could have done better before 2011. If he had risen to #1 or 2 early by 2008-09, he might have found more fans who didn’t fall into the Federer and Nadal camps.
The same anti-science views caused him to put off elbow surgery for 2 years and reject the COVID vaccine which has cost him many more Slams and a lot of fans also.
The same anti-science views caused him to put off elbow surgery for 2 years and reject the COVID vaccine which has cost him many more Slams and a lot of fans also.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Srjdan in 2013:
“Rafael Nadal was Novak’s best friend while he was winning. When things changed, they were no longer friends. This is not sport. This is what Novak has in him, and they [Nadal and Federer] don’t have.”
“Federer....as a man he’s the opposite. He attacked Novak at the Davis Cup in Geneva, he realized that he was his successor and was trying to discredit him in every way. Novak’s success is an amazing thing and something that one can not understand.”
Nadal responded:
“If he wants to know how I get along with Nole, he should better ask his son. My relationship with him [Novak] has always been very good and it still is. I’ve lost lots of matches against him and vice-versa, but we’ve never had a problem. People are entitled to their opinions. It’s not my place to respond to anyone, especially without having heard or read these comments.”
Well, the Australian Goverment did take it seriously....
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This is really stretching the definition of "outrageous" here, specially the bit he said about Federer.
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intrepidish
Hall of Fame
It's pretty outrageous that a player's father make claims like these, but again, given how you've shifted the goalpost every time, I'm not surprised you don't see it.
Rest assured that this and many other incidents only some of which have been touched on today, have played their role in making Djokovic a very unappealing character to many people to the point that he got booed just for stepping on the court at a slam.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The first time Fed met Novak was in a DC tie between Serbia and Switzerland. Novak took an MTO, and Fed had some unkind words to say because of it. This is the root of the animosity between Federer and Djokovic's family
What Srdjan said was not all that outrageous considering Fed fired the first shot in their feud
Ombelibable
Professional
I find it hilarious when right-wingers are labeled (or label themselves) anti-establishment.
intrepidish
Hall of Fame
Srjdan made claims about Nadal and Federer that were outrageous, sorry. Almost everyone who isn't already a Djokovic ultra can see that his father is claiming things he doesn't know anything about and making his son out to be Jesus, which Srdan actually has done explicitly as well as citing Spartacus. Federer wasn't 'trying to discredit him in every way' nor was Nadal ever Djokovic's best friend much less did he decide to no longer be friends, come, on. This is just conspiracy theory garbage.
I'll post it again:
“Rafael Nadal was Novak’s best friend while he was winning. When things changed, they were no longer friends. This is not sport. This is what Novak has in him, and they [Nadal and Federer] don’t have.”
“Federer....as a man he’s the opposite. He attacked Novak at the Davis Cup in Geneva, he realized that he was his successor and was trying to discredit him in every way. Novak’s success is an amazing thing and something that one can not understand.”
Nadal responded:
“If he wants to know how I get along with Nole, he should better ask his son. My relationship with him [Novak] has always been very good and it still is. I’ve lost lots of matches against him and vice-versa, but we’ve never had a problem. People are entitled to their opinions. It’s not my place to respond to anyone, especially without having heard or read these comments.”
Well, that's only half of the story, right? He first took MTO's against wawrinka (winning 10 ponts straight after one), obviously abusing the timing, as he's done many times since. If daddy dearest can't stomach a remark or two about that, then perhaps he should grow a bit of a skin.
And I don't believe I've seen one negative comment of Federer on Novaks parents, other than telling them to be quiet while they were very disrespectuflly loud yapping through a match.
But did he leave it too late. He only started beating them at Majors many years after the Fedal rivalry had got going. He was beating them on hard regularly as far back as 2006 but this is why Slams are so big as people just judge off slams. Im not sure 2011 onwards Nadal or Federer were as good as they were at their peak.
Djokovic is a great guy. Great role model. Great player. He probably suffered from Murray not fulfilling his talent as i remember way back in 2008 it was said Djokovic v Murray would be the next great rivalry after Fedal. Never happened as Djokovic obviously was a league above Murray so in terms of a rivalry he was duking out with Fedal.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Without Novak around today we would consider 2011 as Nadal’s greatest season
vex
Legend
Djokovic didn’t become the big dog due to any FEDAL decline. 2011 smacked them in the face. That level just wasn’t sustainable tho and by the time Djokovic settled into his longer term form (2015+), Fed actually had declined and Novak was too good for Rafa off clay.
In the end, tennis attention post-Agassi/Sampras peaked with the FEDAL 2000s and when Djokovic interrupted the party he was an uninvited third guest to a split tennis fandom… add in his style being more methodical and less flashy than FEDAL as well as a multitude of self-inflicted wounds… he was never gonna be popular.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
It's been basically explained already in this thread. It's no coincidence their popularity ranking is the same as their order by age or order of breakthrough.
Imagine if a football player had a breakthrough (Neymar?) around 2015/2016 when Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo were established and playing and he had reached their level, he never would have gotten to that level of popularity and would have been seen as an "invader" in the rivalry.
Imagine if a football player had a breakthrough (Neymar?) around 2015/2016 when Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo were established and playing and he had reached their level, he never would have gotten to that level of popularity and would have been seen as an "invader" in the rivalry.
forehand-slice
New User
If djokovic had been Alcaraz or Tsonga or Delpo doing the same (results wise) to Fedal he would have been popular and many fans would have abandoned Fedal.
Some people are likeable, some arent. Its sad but true. Perhaps it has something to do with seeming 'cleverer than he should be'. People dont like that, unfair though it may be. They like frank and spontaneous personalities.
Some people are likeable, some arent. Its sad but true. Perhaps it has something to do with seeming 'cleverer than he should be'. People dont like that, unfair though it may be. They like frank and spontaneous personalities.
This - or not even have abandoned Fedal but just enjoyed it all (i know I would - I like good tennis and good competition).
I don't mind Fedals records being broken and better players coming along. That's the whole point in sports. A newer generation that is even better. And based ONLY on actual tennis, DN is better and will hold the records for a while. (And what most DN fans don't seem to understand is that it will at some point happen to him as well. this whole "of all times" BS is exactly that, BS. We once thought that the Sampras record would last forever. It did 7 years...).
His personality, his actions is what is such a buzzkill. Compounded with totally over the top loudmouth parents, just make him very unlikable. And then when you factor in the things intrepidish mentioned about the Serbian nationalist stuff, he quickly reaches the level of a vile uber ***-hole in my book.
Spencer Gore
Legend
There is nothing he could or should have done differently. He destroyed the 3rd best players' dreams in multiple slams and has proved a worthy adversary to Nadal -the only other player in contention for title of best of the era. He may well end up winning the slam race -despite the political interference. As a tennis player, that's what he had to do.
The alleged need to "distance" oneself from anything someone else said or did (no matter if family, friends or whoever) is a ridiculous concept I could never take seriously.
It’s like reversing the burden of proof in a court. It’s the same concept as "guilty until proven otherwise".
I assure you that I never thought something like "His surroundings say so, and he never distanced himself from it, so he thinks the same" about anyone.
And I never actively "distanced myself" from anything in my life. There is no need for it, and anyone who does it supports a wrong concept. Of course if someone asks me about my opinion on a controversial topic I may say it, but not in anticipatory obedience out of myself.
And even then I would never distance myself from the PERSON who said things I don’t agree with. Not only because of a different opinion. That would be another fallacy: "Oh, he doesn’t distance himself from that person, so he must support his views."
No, absolutely not. At least not necessarily. But in any case I would support anyone’s right to tell his/her opinion, without any censorship.
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Tax evasion is illegal, living in Monaco to avoid paying taxes is not. Choose your words wisely.
skaj
Legend
This is all irrelevant for the original question in the thread, because he did more than enough terrible, embarrassing things publicly himself that hugely affected his image and (lack of)popularity.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Don't smash rackets, spank balls into crowd, shout cusswords at your own box, display angry outbursts at umpires & ball boys / boy girls, hit balls in the direction of karen line judges, advice family to speak ill of other greats,
to me the things I remember/dislike about him:
*mimicking other players in jest but not like it when other players did it back to him
*fake medical time outs
*parents yelling ridiculousness “the king is dead”, etc,…
his antics were further highlighted outspoken players like roddick teasing him.
if he just kept his head down and continued to beat the big 2-3, he would have been the underdog favorite, like ferrer, chang, etc,… then ultimate favorite.
*mimicking other players in jest but not like it when other players did it back to him
*fake medical time outs
*parents yelling ridiculousness “the king is dead”, etc,…
his antics were further highlighted outspoken players like roddick teasing him.
if he just kept his head down and continued to beat the big 2-3, he would have been the underdog favorite, like ferrer, chang, etc,… then ultimate favorite.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
When?
Roddick? This guy mellowed out a lot since retirement but he was the ultimate jerk when he was an active player.
roddick and djoker got into a imitation war I think, annoying djoker.
roddick was very sarcastic… not so much a jerk imo (depending on the country your from I guess)
my $0.02 anyway
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