sportsfan1
Legend
It's the personality which he can't change. There's a few players that have beaten fedal in important matches that are well liked - jmdp for one.
What should rising Djokovic have done differently?
- Thread starter travlerajm
- Start date
I didnt think he was as good as 2010...i always felt he looked a bit heavier and slower. Honestly felt he got complacent.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I feel that this is at the core of Novak’s image problem. His rise happened in part because Fedal got complacent.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Eat less B R E A D
Underdog
Professional
Embrace more his origins of not having had privileges as a kid, acting humble, not smashing racquets and shouting to his box like a bossy arrogant idiot and not hitting, accidentally I know but still, th line judge. Many attitudes hurt him a lot, but the only thing he could have done differently, instead of not have done, is to play the champion of the people role better. I’d probably cheer for him of he had.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Basically you’re saying he had to LeBron it more (poor kid from Akron thing).
Underdog
Professional
Maybe a bit. Many players in nba have tough backgrounds though, but tennis is different. Both Nadal and Federer grew up with privilege. Djokovic didn’t, but he doesn’t behave with any according humility.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Growing up playing in the same swimming pool as Ana Ivanovic might give someone a sense of privilege?
Underdog
Professional
His parents faced financial issues during his early life. His country went through tough political times. That’s a lot during childhood
And still lost many significant matches to both. His consistency is remarkable but i think sports fans look at who has the highest peak level and Novaks best i dont think is considered as great as Nadal and Federer. That i think explains it
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic wasn't a "problem" until he started winning more and more titles. In fact a lot of Federer fans liked him when he beat Nadal in 2011. But the more he won, the more hostile they became towards him
skaj
Legend
Right, his savage, fake, reckless, dangerous, hateful, destructive, paranoid behaviour has nothing to do with it...
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
These are just excuses most used to rationalize their hatred of him. Before 2011 Djokovic was more like Zverev. Sure some people hated him but it wasn't nearly as pervasive as it is now. Even posters who used to "like" Djokovic started to hate his guts the more he beat their faves... In the long long ago MichaelNadal used to be one such poster. The heel turn from him and many others was very noticeable
PS: And of course there are those who hate him because of where he is from, like yourself. Those have been there from the beginning
skaj
Legend
Hate? What hate? The topic is why is he not popular. His dreadful behaviour(which is more and more frequent in the recent years) is an obvious reason why people don't like him.
You changing the subject to hate and seeing hate in other people says about your own rationalizations.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Of course. You don't hate him at all, right?
All the "colorful" comments you make about Djokovic do not come from a place of pathological hatred, yes?
skaj
Legend
Not that it is relevant for this thread which is not about me(nor you and your ideas about strangers you know nothing about), I don't hate anyone.
My comments about Djokovic and anyone else here come from the truth, as you can witness in my posts. Your ideas and the hate you are bringing into discussion are coming from somewhere else.
So please, either get back to the topic and give opinions and arguments for it, or just don't write here.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
skaj
Legend
So you don't have any arguments.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Do I really need arguments? You are writing them for me. From just this thread:
Not just hatred, pathalogical hatred? As in a diagnosable mental disorder? Are you for real?
skaj
Legend
Yes, I wrote the (obvious)truth about Djokovic, thanks for quoting it, and you have zero arguments against it, as I said and as we can see in this thread.
Do you feel the need for having arguments I don't know nor is that relevant for the topic.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
There is no other reasonable explanation for some of the stuff he says about Djokovic. You'd think Novak murdered his whole family in front of him based on the nonsense he writes
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
skaj
Legend
The reason for writing - the truth? The truth that is recorded by cameras and mics?
Do you have any arguments against the "nonsense" I write?
skaj
Legend
Obvious truth hahahahahahahaha
Come on then, tell us what of what I wrote is not true? Or are you just gonna continue posting pointless childish gifs in your desperate lack of arguments?
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Cameras and mics record that "his thinking is one of a typical uneducated, brain-washed Serbian person"??
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This is a stretching of truth past any common sense. He has his outbursts on court, but nothing that nobody has done before. Definitely nothing that qualifies it as "savage" behavior, that is just an atrocious exaggeration like all the other colorful adjectives you use to describe
skaj
Legend
Yes, you have countless people in Serbia recorded saying same things he does.
skaj
Legend
Destroying stadium property? scaring ball kids? Shouting like a mad man at the crowd, telling them to lick his willy? If that is not savage behaviour to you, ok. For most people it is, and most people count when it comes to popularity(the topic), not you.
All I see is a lot of hyperbole from you.
These are the things you quoted:
- behave like a savage man on court (destroying stadium property, scaring the ball kids, telling the crowd to lick his genitals etc.)
This all demonstrably happened.
- fake medical tests/go among people when with covid
The second one definitly happened, the first one is only alleged.
- hit the ball around the court recklessly during the breaks and endanger people that way(after being warn about it by a journalist, which he interpreted as some kind of ridiculous attack against him)
Yep, happened
- trying too hard to be loved and liked by everyone
It's a bit subjective, but I, and many others, including a multitude of his peers, share this opinion of him. There's no denying that he doesn't practice what he preaches.
- collaborating with the horrendous de facto mafia dictatorship Serbian government
Sounds harsh, but the dictatorship part of this statement is not fully unfounded.
- hanging out with a commander of a paramilitary unit involved with genocide
Photo's exist.
- trying to build on a public park in Belgrade
Not sure what this is, can't form an opion about it.
So what do we have here that is contestable?
- Possibly Something about a public park
- Fake medical test, not proven but it has been alleged even by reputable reporters. At the very least, questions remains.
- Wether Serbian goverment is a mafia dictatorship. That the Serbian goverment is worrysome is at the very least very true.
No blatant lies. Somehting debatable. Certainly not nonsense.
It may not want to be what you want to hear, but that is ultimately your problem. Accusing others of having a mental illness only because you don't want to hear the truth, well, that just says more about you than anything else.
HTH, HAND.
j
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Like I said, people had much less of a problem with him before he started winning a ton and his behavior was just as abrasive, if not more so.
These are just convenient excuses to rationalize and pretend that it's something more than him taking titles away from their favorites
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Destroying stadium property, LMAO, weren't they advertising signs? Nothing he can't replace
Scaring ball kids, an accident because he was yelling at his box and the ball kid was in the way; he also apologized
Crowd was being terrible with him (as per usual); respect is a two-way street. If they disrespect him, he should be free to retaliate.
Nothing other players haven't also done without copping 10% of the hate Djokovic gets for it
Collaborating, how?
Djokovic didn't even know who he was. He was photographed next to him, big whoop.
If there's one thing Djokovic has always advocated for is peace and unity, specially in the Balkans so to suggest that he supports or even condones genocide is absurd
Tennfan123
Legend
Just be a sportsman. Turn up, play tennis, behave yourself and go home.
skaj
Legend
He wasn't doing all those things earlier in his career, if you remember well, and most of the controversy is of recent date, so I suggest you to stop with these desperate attempts to push your ridiculous agenda.
And if you are trying(unsuccessfully) to be a psychologist, I suggest you try to explain why you are searching for hate in plain facts, and to guess does that have to do with you not being able to accept those simple, obvious facts so you have to invent reasons why people are saying - the truth.
Ok, I guess that makes it perfectly fine.
Ok, I guess that makes it perfectly fine.
Ok, I guess it was the crowds fault, and that makes it perfectly fine.
Yes, many players have taken out line judges and are being loved for it.
Have a good look at the statements made by the govt around the time Nole was denied entry to Oz.
Ah of course, the ' ich habe es nicht gewusst' excsue. That makes it perfectly fine.
You know, you seem to be accusing skaj of making excuses to hate him, but it looks like to me you're projecting just a little bit.
#justsayin'
skaj
Legend
He either faked the test or went among people with covid, that's why I put /.
He is trying to build on a public park, in a historically and culturally significant part of the city, which is scandalous. I can send you some reports about it, and petition against it.
The bolded part I've just written in my previous post basically, that seems to be the problem with this persistent and irrational poster, agreed.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn't make it "perfectly fine" but calling him a "savage" is an enormous stretch
Both of these are much worse than what Djokovic did, but you don't see the same hatefest directed at them. Why?
Serbian government wants to protect one of its citizens, and that is unusual how?
Do you want him to vet everything single person in his vicinity?
skaj
Legend
Serbian government does not care about their citizens whatsoever. They care about their popularity, and Djokovic, one of the most popular if not the most popular person in the country, brings them popularity.
Everyone condemned Shapovalov's behaviour, just like Djoko's. Hate you are seeing again I can't comment, since that is something you see.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
As it should have been condemned, and as Djokovic hitting the line judge should have been condemned. But in both instances it was clearly unintentional. An accident. Which everyone promptly forgot about in Shapovalov's case. But how many more times is Djokovic going to pay for this "crime"?
skaj
Legend
It was a result of recklessness, as I wrote here already. If you want good image, you should not be that that reckless, especially if it has been brought to your attention already. (People get killed because of someone's recklessness, it's not the same crime as intentional murder of course, but they still go to prison for it.)
I don't know why you think that it is "forgotten" in the case of Shapovalov, nor why you say that Djokovic is on the other hand still "paying" for this.
That's like compound interest. At that point he has had his fair share of shennanigans done.
When the Shapo incident occured, he was 17. It was the first time I heard about him. Not a good start obviously. I don't particularly enjoy watching him these days either, as a player he's a bit up and down and I don't like a lot of his 'antics', like the over the top celebrations. And lets' not get started on the rapping. Yet, he hasn't reached Nole's level of d***baggery...
Same kinda goes for Nalbandian. His action was completely stupid. He then proceeded to complain during the on court interview with him (it was a final) - where he should just have been appologizing to everyone and everything, he all of a sudden began to complain about the ATP and whatnot. I think I said somehting back then like Nalbandian is like school in summer..: no class. just a brainless idiot who did an idiot thing. I don't recall seeing a lot of other controversy around him though.
Unlike nole, with his MTO's, possum behaviour, all the things previously mentioned here, loudmouth family etc etc for the past decade or more. More importantly, neither of the two examples you mentioned go around spreading the peace and love and happiness stuff with Pepe Imaz, only to turn into raving lunatic on court. He could get away with a lot more, with me at least, if he were just to say, 'yeah, when I'm on the court, I will hate your guts and fight you and everytihng until you and your firstborns are lying in pieces bleeding before me. You will invoke the monster in me needed to beat you to a slimey pulp. I only care about myself and will do anything to acchieve my goal and won't consider your feelings while I'm doing it'.
At least then he's being honest. Because everybody who isn't blinded by fandom can see that *that* is exactly what he is and does.
Kyrgios has done tons of dumb dumb ignorant things and continues to do so. Still I like him. Why? Because he's honest, VERY honest to everyone who wants to see, what he is about, what he is going through. His knows his battle isn't on the tennis court, but he IS making a consious effort to improve himself, with varying degrees of succes, warts and all. And like any of us, he will be a work in progress until he drops dead. And he's willing to share that with the world. No PR polish there.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This is exactly the problem with Djokovic haters. He just cannot win with you guys, no matter what he does. When does something bad, it's always proof that he is awful. When he does something nice, it's him being fake and desperate to be liked
Meles Fan.
Professional
Not beat the other 2 so their fans dont have constant meltdowns.
H
Herald
Guest
Not won. Honestly all the haters would love him if he was a slightly more successful Murray with 4-5 majors.
The latter part of your statement is corrent. The first part not, it's the problem with Djokovic. You call them 'haters' but they have valid claims. They don't deserve your putdown.
Stop acting fake, stop doing stupid controversial stuff and you'll end up with a magnificent athlete. But alas, it's probably too late for that now.
He'll go down with a lot of records, no doubt of that. For a while, until the next level athlete steps up and the inevetable happens and takes the bar even further. Then all that remains is a legacy of briliance mixed with tarnish. That's all his own doing, not his fans or 'haters'.
You just take it that way. All that's being said is that he did beat them regularly.
skaj
Legend
Are you listening to yourself? Something bad? A "proof"? "Haters"? He did many terrible things, which are the reason why people don't like him. It is extremely simple. And he is desperate to be liked, everyone sees that but those who don't want to see it.
skaj
Legend
Only the tread is not about haters, but why he is not popular. The reason is obvious, and it's his poor behaviour(see post #22 for examples).
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The dictionary defines "hater" as:
1. a person who hates someone or something
2. a person who actively and aggressively criticizes and disparages something or someone
If you don't see yourself fitting in one or both of these definitions regarding Djokovic, I don't know what to tell you.
You see the bad in him as bad, and you see the good as also bad (because he is only "faking" it to be liked)
Clay lover
Legend
He should've given in to the sneak attack on the ATP tour and added some much-needed oomph to his strokes with his optimized gear.
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