What's The Best Way To Figure Out If A Pro Is Any Good?

[Cindysphinx]

My pro of four years left town, so I am looking for a new one. I am looking for someone who will be really good at private lessons, semi-private and private doubles clinics. It is especially important to find someone who will take a group of 50-year-old women seriously and will be genuinely interested in helping us improve our current strokes. Pros who are phoning it in need not apply.

At this point, I have taken a semi-private with two different guys. One was abysmal. Spent the whole time across the net from us feeding. Never asked what we wanted to learn. He is out.

Second guy seemed better. Immediately picked up on something my old pro had been trying to fix in my FH (racket preparation too high; elbow too far away from body).

Third guy taught all four of us in a private clinic. He seemed very young and inexperienced. I cannot tell how much he knows about stroke mechanics because it was a clinic that focused on strategy.

Anyway, what is the best way of evaluating these candidates? My current thinking was to set up private or semi-private lessons with them and pay a lot of attention to what they say about stroke mechanics above all else, but I have no idea if that is the best way to go. I have another semi-private set up this week with Candidate No. 4, so any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[polski]

It depends more on you than the pro. You'll know the right pro when you find them. It comes down to what your preference is & how the pro matches your preference...just like any relationship.

 

[bad_call]

It depends more on you than the pro. You'll know the right pro when you find them. It comes down to what your preference is & how the pro matches your preference...just like any relationship.

absolutely... suggest watching the pro teach then talking with them and see if they can help with what you need.

 

[papa]

Well, I take "most" players seriously and try to understand what their objectives/expectations are "prior" to starting a lesson. In most cases the answers are extremely vague but it gives me a starting point anyway although I hate to hop around from one thing to another every few minutes.

Many times also, players "think" they understand what they are doing but actually don't. For instance, most feel they are making use of their "other" arm when actually it just hangs there on vacation and does little/if anything for the player. Also many players arrive at a lesson with a convoluted/mixture of methods that quite frankly don't fit together well or greatly limit their progress.

I like to hit for a few minutes with the player starting with the volley - in about five minutes, I have a pretty good idea of a players strengths and weaknesses along with what I might think their realistic expectations should be. Using this information and the students input regarding goals/problem areas, I can generally (not always) come up with effective lesson plan(s).

What is most difficult, especially with players in the age group that you mentioned, is that "some" take lessons to attempt to validate their existing strokes which they learned many years ago. Sometimes ego gets in the way although generally with women that isn't as big of a problem as it is with their male counterparts.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Thanks!!!

From a player/student perspective, it is very hard to know what to *say.* I'm always torn. If I give a lot of direction ("We want to work on our FH"), then we get exactly what we asked for and have no idea what the pro thinks would help us. If we don't give a lot of direction, some pros will be very unfocused, and it seems unfair to a pro to give little direction and then be critical because there was a lack of direction.

Do you think the semi-private lesson or the private lesson is the best way to evaluate a pro? Or does it not make much difference?

 

[Topaz]

This is what I look for/prefer to see in a pro:

1. They want to be there and want to see you improve. They ask about your goals and also have a plan for reaching your goals (as well as suggesting additional goals). They are excited about teaching and being there.

2. They are responsible and reliable.

3. They communicate well. Not just during the lesson, but also with scheduling and communicating with the group, whether by phone or email.

4. They don't blow smoke up my a** or anyone else's. Please don't say 'good shot' when we all know it wasn't. So...honesty. Nobody is going to improve if the pro is afraid to be honest.

5. They don't favor particular students over others. So, they don't spend more time working or talking with some students while ignoring others (I've seen it happen sadly, and have been on both ends of it.)

 

[GetBetterer]

Topaz:

1. They want to be there and want to see you improve. They ask about your goals and also have a plan for reaching your goals (as well as suggesting additional goals). They are excited about teaching and being there.

2. They are responsible and reliable.

3. They communicate well. Not just during the lesson, but also with scheduling and communicating with the group, whether by phone or email.

4. They don't blow smoke up my a** or anyone else's. Please don't say 'good shot' when we all know it wasn't. So...honesty. Nobody is going to improve if the pro is afraid to be honest.

5. They don't favor particular students over others. So, they don't spend more time working or talking with some students while ignoring others (I've seen it happen sadly, and have been on both ends of it.)

My pro has those qualities. He's a little lacking on #2 though, i.e. "What time is it?" "7:28" "Okay yea that's 7:30" lol. I'm completely cool with it though since the last 10 min. are just fun games.

 

[Topaz]

GB...my current pro has them all, too, and especially #1 (which I've always liked about him). This list has been crafted by working with many, many different pros for about 6 years now! Yikes! LOL I'm afraid to count how many for sure!

 

[Manus Domini]

My coach has at least 90% of each of those traits.

#1 esp cause he has same favored playing style and gets there early every time and #4 cause I never heard a "good" out of him, only "better, better" and "much better but still not perfect, this is your mistake" etc.

 

[Parker512]

My coach has at least 90% of each of those traits.

#1 esp cause he has same favored playing style and gets there early every time and #4 cause I never heard a "good" out of him, only "better, better" and "much better but still not perfect, this is your mistake" etc.

How do you like that babolat is it good i use the drive z light.

 

[Parker512]

My pro of four years left town, so I am looking for a new one. I am looking for someone who will be really good at private lessons, semi-private and private doubles clinics. It is especially important to find someone who will take a group of 50-year-old women seriously and will be genuinely interested in helping us improve our current strokes. Pros who are phoning it in need not apply.

At this point, I have taken a semi-private with two different guys. One was abysmal. Spent the whole time across the net from us feeding. Never asked what we wanted to learn. He is out.

Second guy seemed better. Immediately picked up on something my old pro had been trying to fix in my FH (racket preparation too high; elbow too far away from body).

Third guy taught all four of us in a private clinic. He seemed very young and inexperienced. I cannot tell how much he knows about stroke mechanics because it was a clinic that focused on strategy.

Anyway, what is the best way of evaluating these candidates? My current thinking was to set up private or semi-private lessons with them and pay a lot of attention to what they say about stroke mechanics above all else, but I have no idea if that is the best way to go. I have another semi-private set up this week with Candidate No. 4, so any suggestions are appreciated.

Canidate No.2 sounds great better than the others at least cindy.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Canidate No.2 sounds great better than the others at least cindy.

Yeah, it's hard. I think the most valuable thing for a pro is whether they have a good eye. Whether they can see you hit and figure out which of the bazillion problems ought to be addressed first. I guess it's the ability to spot everything but still prioritize. I just don't know how to evaluate that in a single lesson. Nor do I have the resources or the patience to do a whole series of lessons just to figure out that someone isn't good after all.

But like Topaz says, a dead give-away is if they blow sunshine up your skirt. That first guy seemed to think everything I did in the lesson was just amazing. I don't need a cheerleader. Everything I do is not amazing; if it were I would be on tour. I don't think he really knew what I should do to improve.

Also, he tended to say things that made no sense or were not helpful. Like, he fed me a high BH volley. I missed the shot into the net. I usually do not miss that shot, but this time I did. I believe the reason was footwork and reaching for the ball. Rather than see if my miss was due to a bad habit or technical flaw, he stopped the lesson and said, "You know why you missed that ball? It's because you had to look up. People get confused when they look up because we don't walk around looking up, so we're not used to it." WTF?

Bad pros, I can spot. It's quickly figuring out if someone is awesome that is hard. The Junior Tennis Training Center at College Park is a place I could consider, for instance. Trouble is, I am worried that their focus might be on juniors and their pros might turn up their noses at working with a 3.5 player. I am *so* not enjoying this process.

 

[Topaz]

Cindy...it is tough, because there *are* plenty of women out there who take lessons and play and *do* want sunshine blown up their skirts (great phrase!). The pros are trying to make a living, so they keep their clients happy. I think some are just 'programmed' this way, and I also think they are in the majority, and it is much harder (but then much more rewarding) to find the pro with the guts to be honest.

TCCP is not just about juniors. I think you have a good chance of finding an excellent pro out there. The facility is fantastic!

Also, and I'm not sure if/where this guy is still teaching, but I may know of someone up your way. Check your email in a bit.

 

[Kevo]

I think the best way to tell if you have a good pro is to judge the results. It shouldn't be that hard for a pro to help you get noticeable results on one stroke in a 30 min. private lesson.

If you take a private lesson and tell the pro I want to work on my forehand, and you don't feel you've learned something that improves your forehand, then you should try another pro. If you are working on drills to improve consistency or tennis fitness/movement, that would require a different standard in my opinion.

For me as a coach, the hardest thing is to get a student to incorporate results into their regular play. Most people will tend to fall back on what they are comfortable with when the lesson is over. I find myself having to reteach things because people will fall back to bad habits, or start new bad habits because they forget what they learned, or don't take it to heart.

 

[Manus Domini]

How do you like that babolat is it good i use the drive z light.

I like it, but probly gonna try the Drive Z Lite Cortex or Drive-Z Pro when I get better, so I get smaller racquet head-size and more control, not the large one I have that is way too oversized. Like the feel, but still wanna try other types as well

 

[Cindysphinx]

Darn. Another swing and a miss.

I got a good lead from a TT poster about a pro in our area. I checked him out, and he sounded great. Got in touch with him. And that is when I learned that he charges $100/hour with a 3-hour minimum per lesson.

Dang. Even if I won the lottery, there is no way I could survive or benefit from a 3-hour private lesson. My knees would turn to oatmeal.

He gave me a lead on another pro he knows, so I'll follow up on that next. And I have yet another guy lined up for a semi-private on Thursday. . . .

 

[larry10s]

For me as a coach, the hardest thing is to get a student to incorporate results into their regular play. Most people will tend to fall back on what they are comfortable with when the lesson is over. I find myself having to reteach things because people will fall back to bad habits, or start new bad habits because they forget what they learned, or don't take it to heart.

i have a coach im working with now thats doing a great job of getting me "over the bridge". meaning getting me to do in a game what i do in practice.
for example right now we are working on me staying more sideways on my one handed topspin and slice backhand.when he feeds me balls or we rally cooperatively i'm doing it right most of the time.
we go to play points and all of a sudden i do it %50 of the time.
part of the reason was when the point starts i "play the point "and dont /didnt think about technique.
when the pro pointed out my decrease in technique i said lets do it again and on every backhand im going to stay sideways
lo and behold we played points and when it came to my backhand i was able to concentrate on technique and get the ball towards my target.
past 2 lessons my % of opening up too much is way down
when i play i am still talking to myself about staying sideways. the % of doing it right is increasing as is the effectiveness of the shot.
eventually i hope it becomes automatic.
the point im making is not many of my pros have focused on a concept and reinforced thru fed balls , easy rally, and points.
this approach has been very helpful to me.

 

[Cindysphinx]

^Yep, same problem here.

Part of the issue is that my opponents have this way of not putting the ball right into my sweet spot. So in a match, I have to, you know, *move.* Still, I find if I move quickly to the ball, I have plenty of time to think about technique.

The other interesting thing about implementing what you learn is there really is a leap of faith. You know, I get the shot I want and it's time to go after it. Even if I do everything right, I have to trust that the technique will keep the ball in play and yield the desired result.

I have a hard time with this. Especially on low volleys. I just have a hard time resisting the idea that what a low volley needs is a little wrist help.

Anyway, I spoke to the latest candidate. Sounds nice on the phone. Teaches in a convenient location. Asked good questions. Hasn't given me a rate -- wants to meet me and rate will depend on how often we train. That bit sounds scary, but my friends and I are a large book of business, so perhaps his rate will reflect that.

Please, oh please, let this guy work out!

 

[larry10s]

Yeah, it's hard. I think the most valuable thing for a pro is whether they have a good eye. Whether they can see you hit and figure out which of the bazillion problems ought to be addressed first. I guess it's the ability to spot everything but still prioritize. I just don't know how to evaluate that in a single lesson. Nor do I have the resources or the patience to do a whole series of lessons just to figure out that someone isn't good after all.

But like Topaz says, a dead give-away is if they blow sunshine up your skirt. That first guy seemed to think everything I did in the lesson was just amazing. I don't need a cheerleader. Everything I do is not amazing; if it were I would be on tour. I don't think he really knew what I should do to improve.

Also, he tended to say things that made no sense or were not helpful. Like, he fed me a high BH volley. I missed the shot into the net. I usually do not miss that shot, but this time I did. I believe the reason was footwork and reaching for the ball. Rather than see if my miss was due to a bad habit or technical flaw, he stopped the lesson and said, "You know why you missed that ball? It's because you had to look up. People get confused when they look up because we don't walk around looking up, so we're not used to it." WTF?

Bad pros, I can spot. It's quickly figuring out if someone is awesome that is hard. The Junior Tennis Training Center at College Park is a place I could consider, for instance. Trouble is, I am worried that their focus might be on juniors and their pros might turn up their noses at working with a 3.5 player. I am *so* not enjoying this process.

cindy you are right some pros might be jaded and offer the smiles and praise lesson. you have to set them straight that you want to get better and you dont need for them to tell you (lie)how wonderful your strokes look.
i did that with a pro and once he got the message i was serious
his attitude and lessons vastly improved.

 

[Nellie]

I find picking a Pro to be really tough because each her pros/cons. I find that it helps to rotate through several different pros to get different perspectives. For example, one pro I like is amazing at coaching the net game but is not so good from the baseline. Some pros (the drill sergeants) run you hard and will be critical, but can really help you improve, if your ego can stand it. Personally, I am too old for that.

Personally, without dangerously overgeneralizing, I like working with women pros who are former college players because I find that they explain things better. A couple former pros I have hit with cannot explain anything because they want you to copy as they do.

Also, I find very little connection between price and quality.

 

[sapient007]

can you let us know the level you play at so we can recommend a proper pro?

 

[Cindysphinx]

can you let us know the level you play at so we can recommend a proper pro?

Yeah, I'm 3.5. I play 3.5, 7.5 combo, mixed 7.0 and mixed 8.0.

 

[nereis]

At that level you are still focusing on fundamentals. Hire someone to help you with stroke correction and footwork, and someone else to work with you on stamina. You don't need blisteringly good strokes, you need solid and consistent strokes.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I may have found Mr. Right today. Thanks to Topaz.

Topaz gave me the name of a guy. He was too distant and expensive. But he gave me the name of another guy, and I took a private lesson with that guy today.

After warming up, we rallied forehand crosscourt. He put huge spin and angle on the ball, so this was not easy. His way of teaching was to ask me what I think about when I'm hitting my FH. I rattled off the things I try to do and try to avoid (get out of the way of the ball, good shoulder turn, racket prep back and up, finish, don't drop racket head, don't get jammed). He nodded, then told me to think about "throwing" my racket at the ball to get more extension. Hmmm, extension. That's what my old pro was working on.

One problem I had and have always had is dealing with high balls. I liked the way he approached this. In addition to doing what I do now (let the ball drop or hit it defensively if it's too high), he suggested I think about doing some things to prevent opponents from sending me high balls. Driving everything deep can yield high, defensive replies. So rather than drive everything deep, use extra topspin to hit some shorter angled balls that will be tougher for opponents to lob or float back.

He looked at the rest of my strokes, and most of what he said was either spot on or at least reasonable.

I think he was relieved to see I wasn't quite as horrible as he had imagined. When I started to serve with a Continental grip, he said, "Thank God you're using Continental!" He, in turn, impressed me with some of his ideas and ways of challenging me.

I think I will see him again next week.

 

[Topaz]

Really? Awesome! I'm glad it may end up working out.

Email his name? I'm kind of curious now!

 

[LuckyR]

Congrats on finding Mr Wonderful! Obviously you are looking for at least a moderate amount of stroke mechanics tuning. That should be the bread and butter of the majority of instructors, so your potential pool should be large. If you really liked your previous instructor, you will need a new guy who emulates the identical (or close to it) stroke preference.

"Getting along" usually is a communication style thing, that is a minimum. And a reasonable price is great too.

 

[crystal_clear]

I may have found Mr. Right today. Thanks to Topaz.

Topaz gave me the name of a guy. He was too distant and expensive. But he gave me the name of another guy, and I took a private lesson with that guy today.

After warming up, we rallied forehand crosscourt. He put huge spin and angle on the ball, so this was not easy. His way of teaching was to ask me what I think about when I'm hitting my FH. I rattled off the things I try to do and try to avoid (get out of the way of the ball, good shoulder turn, racket prep back and up, finish, don't drop racket head, don't get jammed). He nodded, then told me to think about "throwing" my racket at the ball to get more extension. Hmmm, extension. That's what my old pro was working on.

One problem I had and have always had is dealing with high balls. I liked the way he approached this. In addition to doing what I do now (let the ball drop or hit it defensively if it's too high), he suggested I think about doing some things to prevent opponents from sending me high balls. Driving everything deep can yield high, defensive replies. So rather than drive everything deep, use extra topspin to hit some shorter angled balls that will be tougher for opponents to lob or float back.

He looked at the rest of my strokes, and most of what he said was either spot on or at least reasonable.

I think he was relieved to see I wasn't quite as horrible as he had imagined. When I started to serve with a Continental grip, he said, "Thank God you're using Continental!" He, in turn, impressed me with some of his ideas and ways of challenging me.

I think I will see him again next week.

Congratulations Cindy~ He sounds a good coach. I love the coach who asks for feedback from students.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I met the last candidate on the list today. Did a 90-minute semi-private with a friend.

It was, um, interesting. I got there about 10 minutes early to watch the clinic he was teaching. It was unfortunate. The players were 3.0s. Very rudimentary strokes. This was cause for some concern because the person who recommended this pro (1) doesn't take lessons, and (2) has bad strokes. As I stood there, I became increasingly biased against the guy, figuring he wouldn't be able to teach to a high level.

My friend and I took the court with him and gave him our little speech about what we are looking for. In particular, we said we want to learn to play at a high level and wished to work on backhands and overheads. The pro nodded and immediately sent us to the same side of the net. One at a time, we were to hit a FH service return, FH approach shot, FH volley and overhead. Hmmm, not what we asked for.

Along the way, he made various corrections. Some were good (warned me about my huge backswing on my FH service return), but many seemed to be low-level. For instance, he advised us to hit shots/volleys short if the opponent was deep in the court. Mmmm, works at 3.0, does not work at 4.0 and mixed. He also seemed not to like my little adjustment steps I take on my overhead and BH. I dunno, I get nervous when an instructor wants you to set your feet earlier.

While I was having reservations, my friend was falling in love. The pro had us line up as though playing doubles and play out the points. He corrected her positioning errors (failure to follow her poaches, failure to mirror the ball) and shot selection mistakes. All well and good, but I already know that stuff.

I especially took issue with his advice on shot selection. For instance, I was returning serve in deuce court. I hit my return and moved forward. He lobbed my partner. I crossed to hit a BH volley crosscourt and deep, and kept moving forward. He thought that shot should go down the alley in front of me -- he reasoned that taking a BH volley crosscourt is a difficult shot. Boy, I don't think so. I think crosscourt (into the hole between the players) is easy whereas going down the alley is trickier and unlikely to be a winner.

With the last few minutes, my friend asked to work on BH as she is struggling to learn a 2HBH. He did a nice job starting her from scratch: having her hit lefty FHs, explaining what she was doing wrong, hand feeding balls to her. Trouble is, I don't need instruction on such a low level, as I can already hit a 2HBH. I need help in getting more weight on my shot and hitting additional topspin for short angles.

I guess I was left with the impression that his instruction might be kind of low-level. Then again, if my friend and I are going to dominate at 3.5 doubles, maybe we need some basic instruction to avoid the positioning/shot selection gaffes that happen too often right now.

 

[NBM]

The best way to pick a teaching pro is to find some people he/she teaches and discover if his lessons actually tend to improve from the teaching. lots of people spend lots of money taking tennis lessons and never really improve.