Where does Sinner’s upset win in the AO SF rank historically?
- Thread starter The Blond Blur
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jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
I think it sets a big precedence and brings foreshadowing of a lot of possibilities. However, there’s an asterisk as he almost lost the final in straight sets.
I think it could be a lot different if it had happened in the final as well, I don’t know why, but struggles in the finals always seem to have so much more magnitude and impact. His final was rather strange to say the least.
Finally, I think a lot depends on what actually becomes of it in the long run as well. If it’s the beginning of bigger things, then it’s very memorable, but if he drops off the map the next year, then it’s very forgettable.
I think it could be a lot different if it had happened in the final as well, I don’t know why, but struggles in the finals always seem to have so much more magnitude and impact. His final was rather strange to say the least.
Finally, I think a lot depends on what actually becomes of it in the long run as well. If it’s the beginning of bigger things, then it’s very memorable, but if he drops off the map the next year, then it’s very forgettable.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I thought Nadal won in 2022 after he was ingloriously deported for not following the local health regulations - how is he the 5x defending champion? You can’t just count the tournaments that a player decides to show up for.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
He did and rightfully so. But Joker technically didn’t lose in that same timeframe. And it’s not like that changes the spirit of my argument anyway. It’d just be 5/6 won. Still impressive.
EdMcMush
Professional
ehh, i was still thinking djokovic would win. but I mean sinner won 2 of their last 3 matches and did not drop a single set prior to the semis. he was a man on a mission. Hardly an upset. Now Istomin over novak in 2017. now that's an upset. Hell, even Sam Querrey at Wimbledon when novak won 4 straight majors is more of an upset. I would not say this was historic.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Purely by record, yes. In my mind, he was a bigger favorite to win it all before the tournament started, but by the time the match started I had him only as a slight favorite. Because Sinner played great during the previous five rounds while Djokovic struggled early with a virus, struggled to find the right balance of aggression on break points against Fritz and didn’t seem to display the extra pep on the FH he displayed in 2023 all year long. I thought he was going to struggle long points against Sinner and because he served and returned poorly, he couldn’t even dominate the short points which is how he wins these days. That’s why it didn’t seem like a big upset to me.
About 30 minutes in, it seemed like a foregone conclusion that Sinner would win easily just like after half an hour of the 2021 USO final. Djokovic looked out of sorts in those two matches and the opponent was playing too well to have a sudden letdown and lose three sets to him in that form.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
And then the 3rd set happened and a lot of people in the live match thread were saying here we go again. Joker is going to make another miraculous 2-0 down comeback.
For the record I don’t consider it a massive upset either. On paper it absolutely is but after the match concluded it felt very underwhelming. I made this thread to get other people’s opinions and it seems like a lot of them share my sentiments. I was just answering a question and providing those on paper reasons as to why it at least had the foundations for an all time upset win.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Well, there are some who can analyze tennis and others who can’t. Djokovic didn’t look good enough to win the match even after the 3rd set TB as I posted on the match thread early in the fourth set.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
That’s been the case for several of Joker’s schlems the last few years. The last time he looked impressive from start to finish for a 2 week period was the 2019 AO. Since then he’s basically been getting let off the hook by the #NextGen wetting the bed on a regular basis. He looked down right terrible for huge chunks on the match in last year’s Wimby F and yet he was one swinging volley away from winning that match and taking home the CYGS. Sinner played solid but I wouldn’t say he played out of this world.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Chang while cramping beats Lendl at the 1989 FO. Lendl was the three time defending champion and Chang was 17.
There is no real upset when Djokovic is almost 37 years old.
There is no real upset when Djokovic is almost 37 years old.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I disagree - he played like the best player in the world for most of 2020AO, 2021W, 2022W, 2023AO, 2023FO and 2023USO. He looked like the best player in the world for most of 2023W also, but choked on the threshold of victory in the 2nd set TB and then Carlos played better than him. In 2023, his shot quality for both FO and BH was best in the world, serving amd returning were in the top 4 as measured by the ATP - he dominated last year in the Slams barely losing sets and having the biggest/baddest FH on tour along with his usual sublime serves and returns. Only in 2021 he managed to win some Slams like the AO and FO based on his aura that he likely deserved to lose along with stumbling his way through the draw of the 2021USO before Medvedev mercifully decapitated him.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I wasn’t impressed with his level in most if not all those events. And I think that says a lot about how bad the field was that he was able to be more dominant in his 30’s than he ever was in his 20’s. I mean before his body broke down RAFA was smacking those same players around the court just as easily and I wasn’t impressed when he did it either.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
We will never have a meeting of minds because when I go to tournaments these days, I feel I am watching the best level ever in 40 years of watching pros live every year multiple times and I think the level keeps going up steadily in every half-decade. The players are taller, faster, hit/serve the ball faster with more spin and yet have the athleticism to defend very well - no big weaknesses are tolerated anymore at the top and instead any holes in the game are mercilessly abused by the top ranked players which is very unlike how pro tennis used to be in my youth. The players even finish at the net better than 10-15 years ago when net play was a lost art - same with quality of slices and other finesse shots trending up. In the last century, players played the net well, had variety with slice, but in general played a much slower version of baseline tennis both in terms of ball speed and movement speed. The word ‘mug’ has never occurred to me while watching ATP tennis.
Djokovic is still winning because he has kept improving his ability to dominate short points while he loses more long points as he ages - his aura is also higher than ever and he is hard to beat because of that also. In spite of all the gnashing of teeth on here about slow courts and long rallies, about 70% of points still end within 4 shots (by the R+1 shot) and therefore his edge on short points (and TBs) allows him to be the best in the world.
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duaneeo
Legend
Chang beat Lendl during the Normal Order. In current times, it's a huge upset when someone beats D-oldovic...and especially at the AO.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Good for you. As for me I’m not going to insult the Big 3 by saying that they were playing better tennis in their mid-late 30’s that they were in their 20’s. To me there’s just no way anyone is going to convince me that this Joker is better than he was 10 years ago which has become a very popular narrative recently…that is until he lost to Sinner at his pet schlem.
As far as today’s top players having fewer weaknesses I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I could rattle off about 2-3 weaknesses at a minimum for each of the top 10 sans Joker who’s quite clearly physically declined compared to his prime.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
True, but some are desperate to attack and downgrade Djokovic with the most asinine examples.
It wasn't really a surprise considering he was coming off two wins at HC against Nole and a great streak of wins coming from the end of last year and how he was beating everyone in the tournament without dropping sets.
So much he was the second favorite for the tournament with anyone with real tennis knowledge calling the semi as the real final. Plus no doubt he has been improving his serve and fitness in the last few months.
The only real issue with him was his lack of experience at this stage at slams considering his past issues with choking winnable matches a la Fed, making many tennis fans question his mental pedigree. But he rised to the occasion and proved that he belongs at the top of the elite of this magnificent sport.
So much he was the second favorite for the tournament with anyone with real tennis knowledge calling the semi as the real final. Plus no doubt he has been improving his serve and fitness in the last few months.
The only real issue with him was his lack of experience at this stage at slams considering his past issues with choking winnable matches a la Fed, making many tennis fans question his mental pedigree. But he rised to the occasion and proved that he belongs at the top of the elite of this magnificent sport.
duaneeo
Legend
I don't agree with this part of your post. BO3 wins against Nole have not translated to slam wins against Nole, nor has how well someone had been performing.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
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The Sinner
Semi-Pro
Sinner's win over Djoko at this AO is not exactly a shock or a huge upset. Perhaps a slight upset, since Nole was the favourite to win the whole thing (and would have won it had it not been for Jannik), but nothing like many of those mentioned in this thread. The guy was on a red-hot run since Sep/Oct last year, and many (including myself) predicted that Djoko is the only obstacle in Sinner's path to AO glory. I'd probably rank it on a par to Safin's victory over Fedr at AO 2005, where both were considered capable of a win, whilst being a slight underdog. So no, definitely not in the top 10 upsets.
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
Those are all MUCH bigger upsets than Sinner d. Djokovic. The only exception is Darcis d. Nadal since literally anyone can beat Nadal on grass the first week.
Sinner is a top 10 player in good form, hardly a Peter Doohan.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
That's why I listed only Rosol's win. After it happened once, the others weren't such big upsets. Darcis as the second one might have been, were Nadal not still coming back from injury (even in his winning run on clay that spring, he was obviously not all the way back).
abmk
Bionic Poster
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