Who has the best backhand among Laver, Rosewall, Edberg, Djokovic, Agassi and Connors?

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Short answer: probably Rosewall

Long answer: This is in one sense a really difficult question to answer. For a start, what do you understand by 'backhand'? The general sense of the answers I have read is an attacking or point-winning shot.But what about a backhand as a rallying shot, to keep you in a rally, or a setting-up shot to manoeuvre your opponent into offering an easy ball to then hit a follow-up winner (baseline or volley). In that latter context Graf would be the outstanding example in recent years (straying away from the men for a moment). And what about the overhead backhand (Federer has a great one)?

Then what about the influence of technology. Modern players can hit shots that older players could only dream about, especially from the baseline. On the other hand the same technology has driven them to the baseline, so they cannot hit the touch and finesse shots at the net that older players could. You can still argue that technology trumps everything, and that by definition the modern player has to be better than players of the past. I don't think that sort of argument is of any real value. The analogy would be to argue that any high school student is greater than Newton because they can carry out calculations that would would have been impossible to him. Or any amateur painter is greater than those from the Middle Ages because we now know how to create perspective, and have acrylic paints which allow a much greater range of colours. I don't think anyone would buy those sort of arguments.

Given all these uncertainties I think the only way to resolve the question is to ask 'which of the great achieving players was considered in their own playing time to have the most outstanding backhand of that time?', and the answer is Rosewall. I don't think any other great player was so well known for their backhand. The OP (pc1) makes a case for Laver because of the greater versatility of his backhand. But if your 'A' shot is so good that it does the job, there is no need for a 'B' or 'C' or 'D' shot. It is great to have them, but it does not mean that overall they can achieve more than a pre-eminent 'A' shot. The only thing that matters is the final result. And Laver had other shots that were superior to Rosewall, so it must mean that overall Rosewall's backhand was the better shot.

One way to resolve this might be to look at the numbers of winners from backhands by different players. But even statistics have their dangers. Taking Rosewall as an example, the known danger from his backhand lead his opponents to favour attacking his forehand, giving him more winners from that side than you might expect given the quality of his backhand. You see the same effect in reverse with players like Lendl, Sampras and Federer with great forehands, where opponents went more often to their backhand, so the raw statistics on backhand/forehand winners does not really reflect the difference between the two.

[PS As an aside I just want to comment on the danger of statistics in another context. I have seen statistics on serving where Karlovic and Isner (and players like Arthur) have some great statistics but....they rarely if ever get/got to the sharp end of major tournaments. Servers like Sampras and Federer on the other hand did get to the sharp end very often where, by definition, they would be meeting the great returners. So their statistics will be hit by spending more time serving against great returners. The way to normalise this is to compare statistics against say, top 10 players only, or top 5, or top3. But that is a lot of work! Anyway I digress...]

I am a little puzzled by the inclusion of Edberg. I assume that is on the basis of his backhand volley. My instinct is to say that I doubt it was special in the grand scheme of things since Laver, Rosewall, Sedgman etc all had rock-solid volleys because it was second nature. However given the difficulty of volleying with more modern rackets I can see why he might be in the discussion.

I do think there is on glaring name missing - Borg. His backhand may not have been the aggressive beast some others have been, but that was not it's nature. It was death by a thousand cuts, or death by the rapier, eye-of-a-needle shot after drawing the opponent in to the net. He may have had a more-than-adequate serve, and he may have volleyed more than people think, but it was that backhand that was noticed when he played. So he must be in the discussion.

And finally I want to add two names - Nalbandian (mentioned in the OP), and Safin. They are interesting because they tend to be rejected from discussion because the players did not end up in the highest echelons. But are we discussion the pure shots, or the player plus the shot? Safin's backhand was a weapon that never broke down, and at its most powerful was a thunderous winner. Suppose we put Connors head into Safin's body, what might that shot have achieved? Similarly if we put the determination and will-to-win head of Rosewall, or Laver, into Nalbadian, what might his wonderfully controlled backhand have achieved.

So, is it the shot, or the player+shot, that we are discussing. And which shot? [And I am glad Ashe's name was brought into the discussion - the greatest gambling backhand. If Gasquet had that attitude....]
Personally I think Borg's backhand is one of the finest I have seen but people don't talk about it much as far as all time great backhands so in this case I left it out because imo the others I have mentioned, while not necessarily have superior backhands to Borg, are talked about much more.

Actually Edberg is included because I do think it's a fine shot and highly praise over the years. Lendl did say that Edberg's backhand was like hitting to a forehand. That is high praise.
 
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DMP

Professional
Personally I think Borg's backhand is one of the finest I have seen but people don't talk about it much as far as all time great backhands so in this case I left it out because imo the others I have mentioned, while not necessarily have superior backhands to Borg, are talked about much.

Actually Edberg is included because I do think it's a fine shot and highly praise over the years. Lendl did say that Edberg's backhand was like hitting to a forehand. That is high praise.

Yes, at the time Borg's main weapons were seen as his speed and his backhand. With the passage of time his speed seems to have been remembered, but somehow the backhand forgotten. Personally I would say the choice for the past 60 years is between Rosewall and Borg. Interestingly with Connors I would add Segura.
 
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pc1

G.O.A.T.
Yes, at the time Borg's main weapons were seen as his speed and his backhand. With the passage of time his speed seems to have been remembered, but somehow the backhand forgotten. Personally I would say the choice for the past 60 years is between Rosewall and Borg. Interestingly with Connors I would add Segura.
For today's game I much prefer Borg's backhand over Rosewall's. First of all it's a much more versatile shot with his topspin allowing him sharper angles and safety. I believe it was a better passing shot and hit consistently much harder. Borg could hit baseline winners down the line even with wood which is something Rosewall couldn't do. Of course Borg's backhand was about as consistent a backhand as I've seen. With Borg's backhand swing I believe he would take greater advantage of today's racquet and string tech.

Segura's two handed forehand has been called the greatest SHOT of all time but we're talking backhands here but it is essentially similar to Connors' lefty two handed backhand.
 
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VexlanderPrime

Guest
Can't even compare some of these guys bc different eras and tennis/tech progression. Guess u can kinda compare Agassi and Novak. I'd take Novak I guess.
 

DMP

Professional
For today's game I much prefer Borg's backhand over Rosewall's. First of all it's a much more versatile shot with his topspin allowing him sharper angles and safety. I believe it was a better passing shot and hit consistently much harder. Borg could hit baseline winners down the line even with wood which is something Rosewall couldn't do. Of course Borg's backhand was about as consistent a backhand as I've seen. With Borg's backhand swing I believe he would take greater advantage of today's racquet and string .

I agree. Rosewall's was of his time. Borg's was a sign of things to come.

I think Rosewall could thread the needle too, though.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
[PS As an aside I just want to comment on the danger of statistics in another context. I have seen statistics on serving where Karlovic and Isner (and players like Arthur) have some great statistics but....they rarely if ever get/got to the sharp end of major tournaments. Servers like Sampras and Federer on the other hand did get to the sharp end very often where, by definition, they would be meeting the great returners. So their statistics will be hit by spending more time serving against great returners. The way to normalise this is to compare statistics against say, top 10 players only, or top 5, or top3. But that is a lot of work! Anyway I digress...]

Great post DMP. I just want to comment on the quoted paragraph. I'm not sure that it's always true that the best returners are met in the later rounds of tournaments. It's only true on surfaces which emphasis the return game (i.e. somehow blunt the effectiveness of the serve game). At Roland-Garros, it is very likely that the players who reach the later rounds are players who have great returns and baseline game. But at Wimbledon, it is more likely that the players who reach the later rounds are great server themselves. And most great servers are poor returners.

Here is the % of return games won on grass. http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/return-games-won/all/grass/all/

In the top 20 you find a few top players like Edberg, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Murray, Agassi. Federer and Djokovic are just outside the top 20. Pete Sampras and Pat Rafter are in the 50's. Becker in the 60's, Stich is 105, Krajicek is 126, Roddick is 185. Ivanisevic isn't in the top 200.

Against these players, Federer and Sampras were able to post great serve statistics (but not great return statistics). Federer aced Roddick 50 times in 2009. How many service winners in addition? I'm pretty sure Karlovic could also post great serving stats against these guys, better stats than against guys like Mannarino, Seppi, Sela or any other typical early rounds opponents.
 
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DMP

Professional
Great post DMP. I just want to comment on the quoted paragraph. I'm not sure that it's always true that the best returners are met in the later rounds of tournaments. It's only true on surfaces which emphasis the return game (i.e. somehow blunt the effectiveness of the serve game). At Roland-Garros, it is very likely that the players who reach the later rounds are players who have great returns and baseline game. But at Wimbledon, it is more likely that the players who reach the later rounds are great server themselves. And most great servers are poor returners.

Here is the % of return games won on grass. http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/return-games-won/all/grass/all/

In the top 20 you find a few top players like Edberg, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Murray, Agassi. Federer and Djokovic are just outside the top 20. Pete Sampras and Pat Rafter are in the 50's. Becker in the 60's, Stich is 105, Krajicek is 126, Roddick is 185. Ivanisevic isn't in the top 200.

Against these players, Federer and Sampras were able to post great serve statistics (but not great return statistics). Federer aced Roddick 50 times in 2009. How many service winners in addition? I'm pretty sure Karlovic could also post great serving stats against these guys, better stats than against guys like Mannarino, Seppi, Sela or any other typical early rounds opponents.

You are right, and in fact I was thinking about Roddick when I wrote my comment. My comment is therefore not a universal truth. However I do think it is relevant. Players like Sampras and Federer were/are more likely to meet an Agassi or a Murray or Djokovic than the Arthurs, Isners, Karlovic's of the tennis world, especially at the sharp end of competitions when nerves are tight and serving arms can get stiff. So to an extent their serving statistics will be compromised.

In fact Roddick is a player who does come out of it well because, of the big servers, he was the one who did get to the sharp end most often. So that should be borne in mind when comparing his staistics with Karlovic and Isner, for instance.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
You are right, and in fact I was thinking about Roddick when I wrote my comment. My comment is therefore not a universal truth. However I do think it is relevant. Players like Sampras and Federer were/are more likely to meet an Agassi or a Murray or Djokovic than the Arthurs, Isners, Karlovic's of the tennis world, especially at the sharp end of competitions when nerves are tight and serving arms can get stiff. So to an extent their serving statistics will be compromised.

In fact Roddick is a player who does come out of it well because, of the big servers, he was the one who did get to the sharp end most often. So that should be borne in mind when comparing his staistics with Karlovic and Isner, for instance.

I agree with you. Also grass tournaments, which typically favor (or used to favor) big servers constitute a very small part of the calendar and these matches don't contribute much to career stats. On hard courts, the ranking of the % of return game won feature all the usual suspect in the top 20, so reaching the later rounds of the USO, AO or all the HC M1000 means playing tougher returners, and as these courts constitute the bigger part of the calendar, they contribute much more to career stats.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
This is all wrong. Slices have never been better than today. Bigger frames, some open patterns, poly.

Check Yandell s study about RPM. Rosewall wouldn't even dream about it. It is not that he was bad, but technology back then would make hitting better slices impossible.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/avancedtennis/john_yandell/modern_pro_slice_1/

Yandell said about slice:

"But there is a caveat when we get to Djokovic. Interestingly Djokovic's average was significantly less than Federer and Nadal. Novak uses the slice less than the other two players, so we have fewer incidents. But he averaged 2800rpm of total spin on his slice backhands. That's about 25% less than Federer or Nadal.

Why? There are some interesting tactical and technical differences that may help to explain this, something we'll explore in future articles. And maybe there are wider implications as well.
"

Add in faster courts, and bring back carpet, and slice is brutal. Today it just sits up, even at 5300 rpm.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Agreed. Really, it is not even a question.
So all previous generations can just take a hike?

That Laver dude - scrub.
Wouldn't even make it in Div I these days for sure.

Lol.
 

Alien

Hall of Fame
Yandell said about slice:

"But there is a caveat when we get to Djokovic. Interestingly Djokovic's average was significantly less than Federer and Nadal. Novak uses the slice less than the other two players, so we have fewer incidents. But he averaged 2800rpm of total spin on his slice backhands. That's about 25% less than Federer or Nadal.

Why? There are some interesting tactical and technical differences that may help to explain this, something we'll explore in future articles. And maybe there are wider implications as well.
"

Add in faster courts, and bring back carpet, and slice is brutal. Today it just sits up, even at 5300 rpm.

Who said anything about Novak? Certainly his slice is not the best, technically it doesn't look good. At all.

I am saying old slices are poor if compared to the best slices today.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Guys,

Pardon me but wouldn't it be true that if the rpms with slice is higher that the ball would float more and have less penetration. Yes it would be tough after the bounce but is it worth it? Rosewall's backhand was really a flat backhand with a little slice. Check Rosewall's backhand here. This is on the old US Open really bad grass. Lots of bad bounces and often the ball wouldn't bounce at all.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Who said anything about Novak? Certainly his slice is not the best, technically it doesn't look good. At all.

I am saying old slices are poor if compared to the best slices today.

You did by quoting that article, which you apparently haven't read through.

They aren't/weren't. Todays courts make slice poor. It just stands up. Just watch them hit top spin returns effortlessly off of most of them today. Yesterday's courts made them very effective. I'm no Federer, and I've hit a few slice winners on carpet in Europe, many of them serve returns. Try that on hard court in the US(where I'm originally from, back when courts were much faster). The game has changed hugely with slower courts, powerful frames, and poly, and some dude that hits the ball late.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
In addition to the courts it's the pace of the drives and the amount of topspin. We did some experiments with a sports attack ball machine that approximated Nadal spin levels. You simply could not hit a Rosewall style slice drive and keep the ball in the court. You had to hit with "modern" radically downward swing planes. That generates huge amounts of underspin but at the expense of pace. So this is why when you hit a slice approach and come in you simply cannot create enough pressure to keep a great player from ripping a massive polyester pass.
 
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winstonlim8

Professional
I think the problem with Rosewall whenever great backhands are discussed is that he hit mainly with slice and a slice backhand will always be considered a poor man's backhand simply because -

a.it is one shot any beginner can pick up naturally (never mind if he hits it well or not) so it's something really so ubiquitous (and generally ubiquitously badly hit) that nobody thinks it's special no matter how well it's hit or how much you can do with it.

b.Rosewall never tried to hit anything that might be considered "special" because it simply wasn't in his nature to be a showman. He just went out and hit his backhand as well, as efficiently and as strategically as he could and if other people thought it was good, that was their opinion. I'm prepared to bet that he never thought, "I'm going to rip the next ten backhands for winners." For him, it was always a case of "Where should I put this ball for best effect?" regardless of whether he had to do it with a forehand or backhand.

c.a slice backhand's greatest effectiveness is due to it's versatility. If you can hit it well, you can do so much more (and get away with it) than you can with a more spectacular topspin backhand. But precisely because of that versatility, you seldom get to see a powerful, spectacularly struck sliced backhand winner.

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion. I've never believed in "greatest whatever shot" and less still in GOAT because you can't compare different eras or players from them. There are simply insufficient paranormal in common.

You can play some nice mind games that way, though. If I remember right, there was once a WT article that showed how Spencer Gore (or was it William Renshaw or Laurie Doherty, it's been many, many years) could have beaten Rod Laver and using that same writer's methods and logic, I am sure any fan of the game could show how Gore would beat Federer, too.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Guys,

Pardon me but wouldn't it be true that if the rpms with slice is higher that the ball would float more and have less penetration. Yes it would be tough after the bounce but is it worth it? Rosewall's backhand was really a flat backhand with a little slice. Check Rosewall's backhand here. This is on the old US Open really bad grass. Lots of bad bounces and often the ball wouldn't bounce at all.

That backhand at 1:23 was quite incredible. As you say, it looks like a slice but really performs the function of a backhand drive.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
I used to say Safin had the best, but now with Djokovic's bh I may have to rethink it. Toss up between the two.
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
As I define "best, Stan comes on top of the list.

Imo, his open stance, open chest ending bh shows us the future of the 1hbh in modern tennis. I.e. a backhand that can equals any forehand, and I'm not talking about counterpunching. His bh peak stats when it comes to pace AND spin are unparalleled, as is his ability to choose angles and produce 1hbh winners from behind the baseline. Yes, he plays a small percentage tennis when at his best, but as history constantly shows us, the newer generations leverage smaller percentages, just as the olympic slogan says.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
In addition to the courts it's the pace of the drives and the amount of topspin. We did some experiments with a sports attack ball machine that approximated Nadal spin levels. You simply could not hit a Rosewall style slice drive and keep the ball in the court. You had to hit with "modern" radically downward swing planes. That generates huge amounts of underspin but at the expense of pace. So this is why when you hit a slice approach and come in you simply cannot create enough pressure to keep a great player from ripping a massive polyester pass.
John,

What are the reasons you cannot hit a Rosewall type slice against Nadal type topspin to the backhand? Is it because the ball is too high and not in the strike zone or are there other reasons?
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
PC,
You cannot derotate the topspin incoming ball sufficiently and create enough underspin to slow it down so that it goes into the court. The ball sails. I mean hit the fence in the air type sailing. Bounce height is definitely a factor. In the old days flatish drives and flatish slice drives weren' that far apart in velocity. Now the amount of underspin it takes to control the monster topspin incoming balls necessitates that radical downward swing and slows the ball down to a lot less mph than the incoming. Result is yes the ball might really bounce low but it's still relatively much slower. There are three detailed articles with video showing all this on Tennisplayer.
 

President

Legend
PC,
You cannot derotate the topspin incoming ball sufficiently and create enough underspin to slow it down so that it goes into the court. The ball sails. I mean hit the fence in the air type sailing. Bounce height is definitely a factor. In the old days flatish drives and flatish slice drives weren' that far apart in velocity. Now the amount of underspin it takes to control the monster topspin incoming balls necessitates that radical downward swing and slows the ball down to a lot less mph than the incoming. Result is yes the ball might really bounce low but it's still relatively much slower. There are three detailed articles with video showing all this on Tennisplayer.

That's very interesting, do you think that the high levels of spin the current pros put on the slice backhand is almost a disadvantage? I know it's necessary due to the shots they face, as you said, but in a vacuum do you think the old school slice backhand would be more effective?
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
I would say yes. I have been on the court with high level players, watch them hit unbelievably heavy slices and go in, and it's like the approach is in slow motion. They guy on the other side suddenly has all the time in the world to line up a huge pass. The ball can stay super low but with the poly strings and the heavy wiper swing elements, no problem, crushing passing shot.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Well Borg had other things going for him like a great serve, a better forehand imo, more range at the net imo than Connors in helping him defeat Connors and winning more majors.
Just remember that Connors was ahead in the H2H in 2978, 5/4. Borg at the point was well within his own peak.

The dramatic turn-around happened in 1979, and it was all oer in 1981. We'll never know what might have happened in the future.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
PC,
You cannot derotate the topspin incoming ball sufficiently and create enough underspin to slow it down so that it goes into the court. The ball sails. I mean hit the fence in the air type sailing. Bounce height is definitely a factor. In the old days flatish drives and flatish slice drives weren' that far apart in velocity. Now the amount of underspin it takes to control the monster topspin incoming balls necessitates that radical downward swing and slows the ball down to a lot less mph than the incoming. Result is yes the ball might really bounce low but it's still relatively much slower. There are three detailed articles with video showing all this on Tennisplayer.
Thanks John. That's very interesting and informative.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
That's very interesting, do you think that the high levels of spin the current pros put on the slice backhand is almost a disadvantage? I know it's necessary due to the shots they face, as you said, but in a vacuum do you think the old school slice backhand would be more effective?
I would say yes. I have been on the court with high level players, watch them hit unbelievably heavy slices and go in, and it's like the approach is in slow motion. They guy on the other side suddenly has all the time in the world to line up a huge pass. The ball can stay super low but with the poly strings and the heavy wiper swing elements, no problem, crushing passing shot.

So in this case I would guess that the old type semiflat with a bit of slice backhand ala Rosewall or Laver would be more effective or am I reading too much into this?
 

President

Legend
So in this case I would guess that the old type semiflat with a bit of slice backhand ala Rosewall or Laver would be more effective or am I reading too much into this?

That is what John Yandell is saying, but he also said it would be very difficult to execute that semi flat slice against the huge topspin shots of guys like Nadal, Federer, Wawrinka, etc because the ball is likely to fly long. But in a vacuum, yes, the flatter slice shots may be better (if I am reading John's post correctly).
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
If you could change the laws of the universe and make the slice faster and still stay in the court...gravity doubles everytime you hit slice!...but obviously that's the problem...we tried it on a sports attack ball machine with 3500rpm of topspin--several high level players...impossible! You just naturally default to the extreme downward swing.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
If you could change the laws of the universe and make the slice faster and still stay in the court...gravity doubles everytime you hit slice!...but obviously that's the problem...we tried it on a sports attack ball machine with 3500rpm of topspin--several high level players...impossible! You just naturally default to the extreme downward swing.
Makes sense. I suppose the other option is to move further back and not allow the RPMs to affect the player as much but then you're really on the defensive.

Since I have your ears so to speak, do you ever do analysis on the RPMs of Borg and Laver with wood? Particularly curious about Borg because I read in some tennis magazine years ago that Borg had the most RPMs of any player in the world in the late 1970s I believe or around then.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Sadly the footage doesn't exist to do that. You'd either have had to film them at 250frames a second or transport a hawkeye/shot spot back in time...Now before he died Vic Braden did tell me he filmed Rosewall's backhand at that frame rate using movie film! Said everytime Ken hit a backhand it cost him $1000. He couldn't remember exactly but said the spin rate was "about" 1000-1500pm. Compare that to Fed. We've filmed slice backhands of his at over 5000rpm.

So far as moving back that's unlikely to make any difference. Ball speed slows from one end of the court to the other by 50% and more. But spin isn't effected in the same way for reasons some engineer can explain AND actually increases after the bounce due to the friction between the bottom of the ball and the court.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Sadly the footage doesn't exist to do that. You'd either have had to film them at 250frames a second or transport a hawkeye/shot spot back in time...Now before he died Vic Braden did tell me he filmed Rosewall's backhand at that frame rate using movie film! Said everytime Ken hit a backhand it cost him $1000. He couldn't remember exactly but said the spin rate was "about" 1000-1500pm. Compare that to Fed. We've filmed slice backhands of his at over 5000rpm.

So far as moving back that's unlikely to make any difference. Ball speed slows from one end of the court to the other by 50% and more. But spin isn't effected in the same way for reasons some engineer can explain AND actually increases after the bounce due to the friction between the bottom of the ball and the court.
Very interesting. I guess the best option is to drive the ball back with topspin but that's particular tough with one handers when the ball bounces up high.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
PC,
In pro tennis when you talk about one handers a player like Wawrinka has an advantage because of his more extreme grip. It's naturally conducive to the higher contact heights. The other option is to take the ball on the way up. for the 99.99% of the rest of us the slice drive is still a great and under utilized shot.
 
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Laurie

Guest
I see Djokovic is mentioned a lot compared to Agassi.

If I think about it, I think Djokovic is more consistent about returning serve and getting the ball in play more often. If I recall, in his later years Sampras didn't appreciate Hewitt's ability to get the ball back in play consistently and he insisted in coming to net more and more than at any stage of his career. However, with Agassi's bombastic approach, he wanted to cream the ball more often than not, so was prone to not making as many into play as he should have.

In Djokovic's case, he has Hewitt's mentality of getting as many balls into play as possible. In other words, I think Djokovic has more feel and softer hands, allowing him to get the ball back in awkward areas, not necessarily with blinding pace like Agassi, but with more precision and more often perhaps. Also, Djokovic's better movement means he is as deadly with the follow up shot after the return if a player attacks him.

I have never been a big fan of the two hander but I think Agassi has a beautiful looking shot. Not sure if Djokovic's looks as nice but probably a better shot due to his better movement and consistency.

Sadly I have never seen Edberg play live so its tough for me but from what I saw on television for many years he has the best one hander. Due to his ability to chip and slice the ball from midcourt and attack the net, again his movement was superior to many other players, usually if you attack the net from a deep position you would get done / passed but Edberg was so smooth he could do it over and over again frustrating his opponent. Plus he hit his topspin unbelievably clean with such a small racquet head.

I have seen some youtube clips of Laver from the 1970s when he was past his best. Watching the match extensively against Borg, like Pele and a few others, even at his advanced years sporting wise he was at a different level in terms of natural ability.
 

ultradr

Legend

krosero

Legend
PC,
You cannot derotate the topspin incoming ball sufficiently and create enough underspin to slow it down so that it goes into the court. The ball sails. I mean hit the fence in the air type sailing. Bounce height is definitely a factor. In the old days flatish drives and flatish slice drives weren' that far apart in velocity. Now the amount of underspin it takes to control the monster topspin incoming balls necessitates that radical downward swing and slows the ball down to a lot less mph than the incoming. Result is yes the ball might really bounce low but it's still relatively much slower. There are three detailed articles with video showing all this on Tennisplayer.
Putting in my thanks too for these posts and analysis, particularly the historical perspective. Great stuff and very interesting.
 

roundiesee

Hall of Fame
What a great post from OP! Thanks! Fantastic summary of these great players past and present. I think it's almost impossible say who had the best as they are all so good. But the one backhand that I'll never tire of watching is Jimbo's. What great timing and control and using such a tiny difficult frame viz T2000, :)
 

BlackSilver

Semi-Pro
As I define "best, Stan comes on top of the list.

Imo, his open stance, open chest ending bh shows us the future of the 1hbh in modern tennis. I.e. a backhand that can equals any forehand, and I'm not talking about counterpunching. His bh peak stats when it comes to pace AND spin are unparalleled, as is his ability to choose angles and produce 1hbh winners from behind the baseline. Yes, he plays a small percentage tennis when at his best, but as history constantly shows us, the newer generations leverage smaller percentages, just as the olympic slogan says.

God, what I did to deserve that? Why god, why?
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
What a great post from OP! Thanks! Fantastic summary of these great players past and present. I think it's almost impossible say who had the best as they are all so good. But the one backhand that I'll never tire of watching is Jimbo's. What great timing and control and using such a tiny difficult frame viz T2000, :)
Funny story that you may want to know about Jimmy Connors. A friend of mine had an old T-2000 which he took to a tennis clinic that Jimmy Connors was giving just a few years ago. So Connors was hitting with his present day racquet and my friend waved his T-2000 at Connors to let him see Jimmy's old reliable racquet. Connors went over to him and grabbed the racquet and was hitting the ball in the center of the racquet. According to my buddy Connors didn't miss anything. Perfect Jimmy Connors shots.
 
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