Why Did Nadal Really Lose to Soderling at the FO 2009?
- Thread starter Nadalgaenger
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PrinceMoron
Legend
Lead, lead and more lead.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Yes, why don't people play their absolute peak level every time they step on court?
So stupid. Makes no sense.
Are all Nadal fans here 5 year olds?
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
This. People have taken leads like 3-0, 4-1, 5-1 against Nadal on clay several times, playing all out aggressive tennis. Nadal's defensive style allows them to play this way. Problem is most of the time they can never keep up this level. Soderling was one of the rare instances where he kept it up. It's not unfathomable.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
yeah his season sure looked destroyed when he was killing people first 3 rounds of the French
I freakin hate that narrative that somehow one little 4 hour match (with the usual Nadalovic time wasting caveat) apparently affected both guys for 6 months especially when both guys are two of the fittest ever. People have played longer and tougher matches and have turned around and been absolutely fine.
zagor
Bionic Poster
He gave Hewitt one of the worst slam beatdowns of his career in the previous round (before Soderling). I was pretty active on the forum back then and vividly remember Nadal fans saying how it's gonna be like 2008 all over again after that match, the tune soon changed of course.
So much of Nadal's confidence is based around his CC campaign that while he may have gotten injured against Soderling I think that loss also shook him mentally. It may have been a combination of the two factors that made him miss Wimbledon that year.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
He didn't even take a set in 2010 though.Because beating Nadal in back to back RG editions is something that can be easily replicated
My point is that it had a lot to do with Nadal's difference in level as well. 2009 Nadal was obviously not 100 %. Defending champs don't miss Wimbledons because they are sad about losing a match at the FO.
D
Deleted member 512391
Guest
Soderling absolutely murdered Nadal's serve in that match, I recently rewatched it and it was stunning how many returns went very deep and immediately put Nadal in a defensive position before the rally even developed. Not to mention that he was able to hit 60+ winners against the greatest defender ever on clay (and top 3 in Open Era regardless of the surface). The heaviness of his shots and serve exposed Nadal's defensive mindset in that match and punished his customary court positioning by simply blowing him off the court. Robin's mental strength during that match has been overlooked as well. To be able to stay with Nadal in BO5 on clay and not to choke requires enormous clutchness.
This match, imo, was an alarm for Nadal and forced him to redesign his game, become more aggressive and develop the monster serve that helped him having one of the best seasons in OE.
This match, imo, was an alarm for Nadal and forced him to redesign his game, become more aggressive and develop the monster serve that helped him having one of the best seasons in OE.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
His 2nd point suggests that he's probably mentally deficient. And I'm not at all kidding. People like that do use internet forums.
Fridge
Professional
Ahhh yes, the typical Fed fan that wants to believe Nadal was 100% during the FO just to validate his win.... Truly depressing.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Right that's what I said in the first post of this thread. Hope you got room for that L.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Why could't he beat Fed in the final in 09, why can't Rosol play at his 5th set level all the time, why can't Wawa summon the Stanimal on every single point?
Players' level fluctuate on any given day. The more you rely on offense to win, the more your level tends to fluctuate.
It really is that simple. And redlining offense tends to win the day, even on clay. See Fed's few set wins against Rafa for instance. It is just very rare to keep it up for long enough
See also Zagor's point above about the talk about Rafa's form at the time.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
So 2009 Soderling achieved a level on clay against Nadal that prime Fed and Novak never achieved? I find that hard to believe.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
This seems like a very reasonable assertion.
We disagree on the primary reason (for you it's Soderling's high level, which I think was undeniably ONE of the reasons). But you at least point out that Nadal was NOT 100% either.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Why? Rafa is a bad match up for Fed. Novak could have beaten him in 13 (and sure had his chances in 12 and 14 too). Also, Soderling executed on 6/7 BPs. Fed went 1/17 in 2007
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Look, Soderling deserves enormous credit for that 2009 match. It was a career-defining win for him. He achieved something that Fed and Novak at their very best never could.
But my point is that as good as Soderling's level was, it wasn't good enough to beat the very best version of Nadal.
Was Fed's level at 2013 Wimbledon just as high as always? Clearly Stakhovsky played an excellent match, but let's get serious here.
Also, Rosol is an interesting case. People often put Soderling and Rosol into the same sentence. But let's be honest--beating Nadal on grass is NOT the same as beating him on clay at the French. Hats off to Rosol (and Darcis, and Kyrgios, and Brown) for fine grass court tennis, but Soderling achieved the impossible in 2009.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Including Fed? I'm not so sure. I think 2009 Fed could have taken down 2009 Rafa.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Because Soderling with his racket was like Thor with Mjolnir. I've never seen him play at the level in his career. It was insane and mind you the conditions were heavy and he just hit through the court like nothing. Also, Nadal hates heavy conditions on clay. He likes it sunny and hot, not muggy and cool so that was part of the reason.
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Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
And 2005-2007, 2011 and 2006 Rome. Yet he did not
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Soderling played awesome for the whole of the F0 2009 until the final, where the occasion got to him. Let's not forget that he hit the defending champ Fed off the court in 2010 as well, so this match wasn't a one and done.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Fed beat him in 2009 in the Madrid final. I think he would have played "balls out" tennis in a FO final, especially since no one would have given him a chance after the 2008 debacle.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Did Rafa play his best ever clay match? No. Did he play well? Yes. Did injury play a part? I don't believe so.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Oh yes. Soderling is a clay god and should have a RG title. That is somewhat a travesty for him and what he could have done in his career. He was extremely talented.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
He would and then a missed dropper would destroy him just like 2011
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
The point is that Soderling's level in 2010 was comparable to his level in 2009.
Nadal was a man on a mission in 2010. Nobody was going to stop him.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
That miss was VERY frustrating. Fed would have definitely taken Nadal to the brink that day had that dropshot just kissed the line.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
If Nadal wasn't injured, why did he miss Wimbledon? He was defending champ headed into 2009. He definitely wasn't afraid of Fed. Djokovic wasn't yet a threat at SW17.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Roger would have disagreed with this statement after the 2008 FO.
Rafa24
Hall of Fame
Firstly credit goes to soderling for playing a great match. And Rafa was hurt which is why he skipped wimbledon. Oh wait Fed fans will say he wasn't hurt he was just embarrassed he lost. So the defending champ at wimby didn't show up after being beat by soderling because he was embarrassed? No. Rafa got embarrassed by Djokovic for I don't know how many straight matches and he kept showing up and lost 3 slam finals in a row to him.
Nothing to be embarrassed about being beaten by a guy who was in the zone and made the final.
No. Rafa got embarrassed by Djokovic for I don't know how many straight matches and he kept showing up and lost 3 slam finals in a row to him.Nothing to be embarrassed about being beaten by a guy who was in the zone and made the final.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
I like the 'Hot pink shirt' option in the poll but I think Nadal would have a great chance if he had listened to Suresh and wore his signature Slime green+Hot pink shoes combination apparel
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Let's not rewrite history.
Rafa was injured after the FO while practicing. At least that's what he/Toni said.
Just like Fed was injured AFTER AO, it's not like he lost to Djokovic because he was injured, and that's why he took several months off.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
ADuck
Legend
The real reason is Nadal played too short. Normally when Nadal plays short, he is still able to win because he'll defend so well and run around the court like a monkey. However that day he was playing Soderling who had the ability to push Nadal around on the baseline with terrifying power and precision. Nadal did play pretty good all in all, but far from his best tennis.
Bukmeikara
Legend
Firstly credit goes to soderling for playing a great match. And Rafa was hurt which is why he skipped wimbledon. Oh wait Fed fans will say he wasn't hurt he was just embarrassed he lost. So the defending champ at wimby didn't show up after being beat by soderling because he was embarrassed?
Nothing to be embarrassed about being beaten by a guy who was in the zone and made the final.
Nadal is truly rich on stories of injuries .. Against Soderling, Ferrer, Murray, Wawrinka. I would only mention that in tennis, players got/get tested only after losses. I imagine that if you had plans and lost unexpectedly early like R16 or Round 2 ....
zagor
Bionic Poster
Firstly credit goes to soderling for playing a great match. And Rafa was hurt which is why he skipped wimbledon. Oh wait Fed fans will say he wasn't hurt he was just embarrassed he lost. So the defending champ at wimby didn't show up after being beat by soderling because he was embarrassed?
Nothing to be embarrassed about being beaten by a guy who was in the zone and made the final.
Not embarrassed of course but more like a shock to the system. If Wimbledon wasn't so close after FO I think Nadal would have played, I think he was injured but not to a degree that he couldn't play at all (most players are always playing through some injury or other). 1st week of Wimbledon is usually tough for Nadal (even in those years he made the finals), he needs to be mentally zoned in to get through it.
Think about how Fed was distraught after Wimbledon 2008, lost in the 1st round to Simon in Canada, then in the 2nd round to Karlovic then to his pigeon Blake at Olympics. However USO was far enough that he could recuperate.
Nadal's a fighter but he's not a machine, everyone draws their confidence from something.
guitarra
Professional
Nice thread, mate. On topic: I think it was a combination of things but the main factor was Soderking turning into God Mode. Once in a lifetime performance. The upset of all time. Please don't forget he not only beat Nadal but also Ferrer in the previous round (great clay courter), trashed Davydenko in the QF (another great clay courter) and Gonzales in SF (and that stage fatigue was increasing).
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Parents divorce? The shock of having his nuclear family broken up must have taken a tall on him. Together with the shock of losing on clay in best of 5.
If Rafa was impaired by injure why did he show no signs of it in the previous 3 rounds (where, as @zagor stated, his fans treated the tournament like another 2008?). Nor obvious signs in the Sod match nor mention it post match? Sure, there might have been a bit of pain, but all pro's play with pain pretty much all the time. I don't think this was the deciding factor.
Also, as for Wimbledon, remember what he did? He played not 1 but 2 warm up matches, waited for the draw to come out (which was very harsh on him) and only then withdrew. Not a sign of debilitating injury.
This.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Come' on Nadalgaenger, you're better than this. Obviously you know you can't just take the same 2 players on a different day in a different year in different conditions and say: See, this would (should) have happened in 2009 had Rafa been healthy. For starters, Söderling's level of play influences Rafa's level of play and vice versa.
And hey, maybe the occasion got to him a bit again? It's a helluva lot easier to beat an ATG in a 4th round or a QF than in a slam final. Only Delpo and Stanimal have done that outside the Big 4 in recent memory.
All in all - just because the Sod reached the final both years it doesn't mean his level vs. Rafa in the 2 matches was even remotely similar.
Link? That's not how I remember their spin on it.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Btw, here's what he said about the injury in the immediate aftermath:
"I am going to give my 200 percent to be ready for the most important tournament in the world," Nadal said. "I will not go out and play, especially on the Wimbledon Centre Court, if I am not 100 percent ready to play.
"I have two difficult weeks ahead of me, especially because I won't be doing what I like doing most, which is to play tennis."
Nadal withdrew from a grass-court warmup event at Queen's Club this week. His 31-match winning streak at the French Open ended with a fourth-round loss to eventual finalist Robin Soderling.
"I have been playing with pain on my knees for some months now and I simply can't go on like this," Nadal said. "The pain was limiting certain movements in my body, which affected me mentally as well."
http://www.espn.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4245078
If taken at face value, months in plural said on the 9th of June would indicate the entire clay season, which he stormed through losing but one set (to Novak in MC) until the Novak-match in Madrid.
As to why he missed Wimbledon, I think the 100 % part is key (and drawing Hewitt in the 2nd round didn't help as I said earlier (he took out Delpo that year)). He's willing to play the French at slightly less than 100 % since that can still win him the title. But time and time again he's showed that if he doesn't feel completely ready for any given slam, he will withdraw. See 2013 AO, where a stomach bug a few weeks before caused him to halt his comeback.
"I am going to give my 200 percent to be ready for the most important tournament in the world," Nadal said. "I will not go out and play, especially on the Wimbledon Centre Court, if I am not 100 percent ready to play.
"I have two difficult weeks ahead of me, especially because I won't be doing what I like doing most, which is to play tennis."
Nadal withdrew from a grass-court warmup event at Queen's Club this week. His 31-match winning streak at the French Open ended with a fourth-round loss to eventual finalist Robin Soderling.
"I have been playing with pain on my knees for some months now and I simply can't go on like this," Nadal said. "The pain was limiting certain movements in my body, which affected me mentally as well."
http://www.espn.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4245078
If taken at face value, months in plural said on the 9th of June would indicate the entire clay season, which he stormed through losing but one set (to Novak in MC) until the Novak-match in Madrid.
As to why he missed Wimbledon, I think the 100 % part is key (and drawing Hewitt in the 2nd round didn't help as I said earlier (he took out Delpo that year)). He's willing to play the French at slightly less than 100 % since that can still win him the title. But time and time again he's showed that if he doesn't feel completely ready for any given slam, he will withdraw. See 2013 AO, where a stomach bug a few weeks before caused him to halt his comeback.
roysid
Hall of Fame
Sod played determined tennis. It was attacking and courageous. But he also had that hatred(at that time going in for him). There were many players with big shots who didn't believe they have a chance against Nadal on clay.
Soderling wasn't going to surrender to Nadal.
That and Nadal was not prepared for Soderling's tennis, not 100% and other factors. In 2010 final , Nadal had clear plan where he moon balled everytime he was stuck in backhand corner thus neutralizing the rally
Soderling wasn't going to surrender to Nadal.
That and Nadal was not prepared for Soderling's tennis, not 100% and other factors. In 2010 final , Nadal had clear plan where he moon balled everytime he was stuck in backhand corner thus neutralizing the rally
edberg volleys
Hall of Fame
Wimbledon 2007
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
Lmao those pink checkered shorts or w/e though seemed to work wonders for Stan though
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Mustard
Bionic Poster
It is known as one of the greatest upsets in tennis history for a very good reason. Soderling plays a high risk game, and it all came together for him that day, even though he lost the second set. It was Soderling's first match in the Round of 16 at a tennis major, clay was seen as his weakest surface at the time, and Nadal was 139-3 on clay since 11 April 2005. Nadal was also 31-0 at the French Open, and had won 32 sets in a row in the tournament going into his 2009 match with Soderling.
rainingaces
Legend
He put his underwear on the wrong way and his nuts were itching the whole match.
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