Why does Djokovic have such a poor overhead/smash?
- Thread starter aman92
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O
OhYes
Guest
Well he had many more bad dropshots, yet overheads are someway more important. I don't know why.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
"We tried everything."
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Bad eyesight
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Why don't you enjoy your win instead of poking fun in a separate thread ? Djokovic was far from 100% . This makes RG interesting
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Yep that's a shame. Because all his other shots except the volley are better than Nadal's
This match was interesting. Even playing terrible he managed to get a set from Nadal on clay. Pretty good.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep that's a shame. Because all his other shots except the volley are better than Nadal's
This match was interesting. Even playing terrible he managed to get a set from Nadal on clay. Pretty good.
Forehand? Movement? OK, movement isn't a shot but still...
BlueB
Legend
It's simple, when the footwork is off, the weakest shot is what would brake down the most. It was quite evident today, even the ones that he made were easy for Nadal to return into play.
As a contrast, a fresh, well moving Rafa was hitting BH down the line with authority, the shot that he normally doesnt like...
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol those 2 back to back ones where Nadal hit an over the shoulder shot from the baseline were hilarious. It's almost tradition for them
This guy sat right at the spot Nadal hit to...... the entire time while Rafa ran to the baseline and hit a tweener and still missed
This guy sat right at the spot Nadal hit to...... the entire time while Rafa ran to the baseline and hit a tweener and still missed
Hawaiian grip
Professional
Djokovic a better forehand than Nadal? Better dropshots?Yep that's a shame. Because all his other shots except the volley are better than Nadal's
This match was interesting. Even playing terrible he managed to get a set from Nadal on clay. Pretty good.
...
Benjamin Rio
Professional
I don't think it's a weakness in Novak's game. He can dominate the game with that shot.
And movement Novak is even with Nadal.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
I never said it was a weakness. All I'm saying is that Nadal is hugely better off the forehand as Djokovic is with the backhand. And Nadal has slightly better movement.
Hawaiian grip
Professional
I would say movement wise Nole has been clearly better than Nadal post 2012. Well, maybe not on clay, but everywhere else, sure. Nadal’s issues on grass, for instance, originate partly from his declined athleticism as a consequence of his knee issues.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Nadal has the best movement on clay but at AO this year, he looked slow out there compared to Novak. I think Rafa at his peak was a tad better on other surfaces in movement but not now.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He was tired today so he missed those shots quite a bit but it was the drop shot that saved matchpoint against Del Potro. He hit some great drop shots in that match. It's not like he hits these shots terribly majority of the time. Lol
Hawaiian grip
Professional
While, as I stated above, I agree on this, this year’s AO is far from a good example. Nadal was coming off an injury and he was definitely not at his best physically wise.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
He's really good at hitting drop shots usually.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
True but other recent matches on non clay surfaces come to mind as well where Novak was better in that aspect.
Hawaiian grip
Professional
I still think Nadal is usually better at it than him.
His forehand is also undeniably more of a differential stroke than Djokovic’s. Nole’s is pretty good, but it’s really a no contest there. Nadal’s is a legendary shot, much like Nole’s backhand.
At their peak I’d give Nadal the edge in forehand, movement on clay, volleys, dropshots and smash, and I’d favor Djokovic’s backhand, return, serve as well as his movement on HC. I’m talking overall here, not matchup-wise.
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HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Yep that's a shame. Because all his other shots except the volley are better than Nadal's
This match was interesting. Even playing terrible he managed to get a set from Nadal on clay. Pretty good.
I think his Forehand isn't better than nadal either
Hawaiian grip
Professional
His forehand/backhand combo troubles Nadal more than the other way around, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they are better overall. Much like Nadal dominating the H2H vs Federer doesn’t mean he’s been a better tennis player than Roger, for example. We need to assess those things beyond their personal matchup.
Saying volleys are the only shot Nadal is better at was asinine, to be honest.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I didn't say his forehand/backhand combo is better. I said his serve/return combo is and that is an advantage for Djokovic on faster surfaces. I don't think Djokovic's forehand > Nadal's forehand btw. I'm just giving my point of view on why Novak's arsenal troubles Nadal so much off clay.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Still, his drop shots have definitely declined. I remember how good his drop shots were in 2011. He was using them all the time, and with success.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Novak should consult Pete on how to hit a proper overhead.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
They were good in 2015 and 2016 as well, but he doesn't use the shot as much as he used to so his feel on it is probably not as good as it once was.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
He made more error droppers then smashes
His OH/Smashes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Droppers
His OH/Smashes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Droppers
Grampa
Semi-Pro
Novak did have a dropshot disaster back in that infamous Simon match in AO 2016 quarters. Made 100 unforced errors, and then went on to play his best tennis late on. Really has mastered the art of peaking in later stages, no wonder he has been so clutch in semis and finals since RG 2015.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
Maybe Nick should go out and give him smashes every ball in their next match
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Mental scar from 2008 Olympics.
O
OhYes
Guest
He couldn't even reach net in couple of tries. That was really bad.
HipRotation
Hall of Fame
Dropshots to overheads is a bad comparison. Drop shots are risky, the margin for error is razor sharp between hitting the net and bouncing too high or far requiring a high level of finesse and awareness. Overheads are like taking a seldgehammer to the ball, they're blunt and have little to no finesse except when someone wants to hit the rare acute angle. You can hit it with cofindence knowing your opponent will need, as Robbie Koenig would say, a piece of magic to return the ball without setting up another overhead smash. Top players miss dropshots all the time whereas overheads esspecially from so close to the net should be a winning shot every time.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Frankly, it’s strange, because side to side, he’s an incredible athlete with incredible coordination. He’s not quite as good moving forward but still fast and coordinated.
Now, for the overhead, he seemingly loses all his coordination and confidence and hits these weak, flat-footed, wristy, club player smashes. People who play recreationally know that overheads are probably the hardest shot for these club types.
GOAT overhead shot makers (Sampras, Federer) explode through those motions. One explanation can be that Djokovic has such calculated, almost robotic play that has no real weaknesses but when he gets into situations when the stories aren’t quite the same (on overheads) he loses his way as that shot is more about adapting to each overhead in different circumstances, i.e., shotmaking.
I’ve never seen a player so good overall be so bad at overheads at certain times, ESPECIALLY those taken right out of the air.
Now, for the overhead, he seemingly loses all his coordination and confidence and hits these weak, flat-footed, wristy, club player smashes. People who play recreationally know that overheads are probably the hardest shot for these club types.
GOAT overhead shot makers (Sampras, Federer) explode through those motions. One explanation can be that Djokovic has such calculated, almost robotic play that has no real weaknesses but when he gets into situations when the stories aren’t quite the same (on overheads) he loses his way as that shot is more about adapting to each overhead in different circumstances, i.e., shotmaking.
I’ve never seen a player so good overall be so bad at overheads at certain times, ESPECIALLY those taken right out of the air.
TheFifthSet
Legend
He tends to miss when he’s flat-footed, and there’s no reason for him to be flat-footed, so I believe it’s at least half mental.
That said, Djokovic’s overhead only costs him a few points a year compared to the average one. It gets ridiculed incessantly largely because he’s one of three players most posters on this forum tend to watch a lot of, and the other two have well above average OH’s.
See here:
http://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2017/11/28/measuring-the-best-smashes-in-tennis/
based on the (albeit somewhat limited) data at hand, it rates as a slightly below average overhead, and not something one can really attack.
That said, Djokovic’s overhead only costs him a few points a year compared to the average one. It gets ridiculed incessantly largely because he’s one of three players most posters on this forum tend to watch a lot of, and the other two have well above average OH’s.
See here:
http://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2017/11/28/measuring-the-best-smashes-in-tennis/
based on the (albeit somewhat limited) data at hand, it rates as a slightly below average overhead, and not something one can really attack.
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icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
has he ever commented on the infamous djokosmashes, i feel like if anyone is to make a joke about one of their shots not always working out, it would be him.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
Takes his eye off the ball too soon
Dropshots are under his control; he can hit as many of them as he would like. So that's why there was more dropshot attempts.
zvelf
Hall of Fame
Because overheads are relatively infrequent, it's sometimes overlooked as something requiring a lot of practice. It's not always that easy to get in the proper position to hit a high lob out of the air. It requires very good timing. That said, the simple solution when he's not ready is that Djokovic should just let the ball drop and hit it off the bounce when it's lost a lot of momentum. That gives him more time and it's a much easier overhead from there and your opponent usually still has to commit to a position to return it. It's like getting to serve from the middle of the court.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
he's flubbed the ones where he let it bounce once a couple times as well
Sephiroth
Hall of Fame
With dropshots Djokovic tries to be too precise which ties into his precision game, that's why he keeps hitting the net with them but sometimes you just gotta make sure you get the ball over the net and make the opponent run for them. But he's worried he'll hit them too long or not with enough spin and live it as a sitter to be whacked.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I don't know.
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
I'd say his overhead is bad for two reasons, he brings his head down as he hits, causing a lot of net misses and just mental..he has no confidence in it...that has been apparent for years.
It's really interesting to me how such a great player can have a bad overhead. Seems like something he could easily fix.
It's really interesting to me how such a great player can have a bad overhead. Seems like something he could easily fix.
Luka888
Professional
No, no. Some of you got it right. It is his eyesight. He is wearing contacts. So, depending of the sunlight he can't clearly see things especially when he is looking at the sun. The light bothers him. I have a similar problem although I'm not a tennis pro but I have to wear a photo grey sunglasses all the time.
People think that Tipsarevic looks cool with his sun glasses but he has a similar problem with the light. He doesn't wear sun glasses to be cool but because he has to. There are other players too.
I know everyone is joking about it because all they remember were his funny smashes. He is actually not that bad if you look at the big picture. The thing is everyone is also expect him to be perfect in every area ...
People think that Tipsarevic looks cool with his sun glasses but he has a similar problem with the light. He doesn't wear sun glasses to be cool but because he has to. There are other players too.
I know everyone is joking about it because all they remember were his funny smashes. He is actually not that bad if you look at the big picture. The thing is everyone is also expect him to be perfect in every area ...
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
[QUOTE="Luka888, post: 13359268, member: 742637"He is actually not that bad if you look at the big picture. The thing is everyone is also expect him to be perfect in every area ...[/QUOTE]
He IS that bad. I've been watching tennis religiously since 94 and have never seen a pro with remotely as bad an overhead. It's actually extremely interesting to me as he is one of the greatest ever. Not sure why he can't work it out.
He IS that bad. I've been watching tennis religiously since 94 and have never seen a pro with remotely as bad an overhead. It's actually extremely interesting to me as he is one of the greatest ever. Not sure why he can't work it out.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic's backhand smash is a thing of beauty
.He does have a better serve, return and backhand though. And they are highly important shots in tennis.
On topic, I think he was a bit surprised with Nadal's level and got nervous in some crucial moments. He wasn't playing very good but he could still see that Nadal didn't fear him and was winning most of the baseline exchanges without much trouble.
He is a human, not a robot. We have seen such errors from Nadal quite a few times too against Djokovic.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Djokovic's backhand smash is a thing of beauty
He does have a better serve, return and backhand though. And they are highly important shots in tennis.
On topic, I think he was a bit surprised with Nadal's level and got nervous in some crucial moments. He wasn't playing very good but he could still see that Nadal didn't fear him and was winning most of the baseline exchanges without much trouble.
He is a human, not a robot. We have seen such errors from Nadal quite a few times too against Djokovic.
Nadal is the greatest fighter and has the best physical condition on the tour. But Novak has got better shots except the....volley and the overhead....
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