Why does Medvedev have a much easier time with N.Djokovic than he does R.Nadal?

[weakera]

After a 0-3 start in his career vs. Djokovic, Medvedev is 4-3 vs. Djokovic in their last 7 matches.

Meanwhile Medvedev is 1-4 in his career vs. Nadal, with his only victory coming on indoor hc.


So, why does Medvedev struggle so much against Nadal, but have the upper hand vs. Djokovic in their last 7 matches?

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

After a 0-3 start in his career vs. Djokovic, Medvedev is 4-3 vs. Djokovic in their last 7 matches.

Meanwhile Medvedev is 1-4 in his career vs. Nadal, with his only victory coming on indoor hc.


So, why does Medvedev struggle so much against Nadal, but have the upper hand vs. Djokovic in their last 7 matches?

Same reason as Nadal struggle against Novak on hardcourt and grass in the last 7-8 years. He adopted to his opponent strenths. Still, they all add another layer to their games.

 

[MadariKatu]

On one hand, Medvedev doesn't put so much pressure on Nadal's serve as Djokovic does, which makes Nadal serve more comfortably. On the other, his game is not so much about taking time from the opponent, which is one of the reasons Nadal struggles so much with Djokovic (or did with Davydenko).

Also, don't forget that except their first match, Nadal and Medvedev have always gone till the very end. USO 2019, AO 2022, and both WTF matches, in one of them Nadal had match point (and lost), and in the other Medvedev was 5-1 40-0 in the second, having won the first, and lost.
So, it's not as one sided as h2h numbers might suggest.

Regarding Djokovic, I think Medvedev's "wall mode" annoys him and frustrates him, and struggles to find a way to make points sometimes. Other than Novak himself, Medvedev might be the player with highest shot tolerance.

 

[jga111]

Djokovic struggles to play him off the court.

 

[weakera]

On one hand, Medvedev doesn't put so much pressure on Nadal's serve as Djokovic does, which makes Nadal serve more comfortably. On the other, his game is not so much about taking time from the opponent, which is one of the reasons Nadal struggles so much with Djokovic (or did with Davydenko).

Also, don't forget that except their first match, Nadal and Medvedev have always gone till the very end. USO 2019, AO 2022, and both WTF matches, in one of them Nadal had match point (and lost), and in the other Medvedev was 5-1 40-0 in the second, having won the first, and lost.
So, it's not as one sided as h2h numbers might suggest.

Regarding Djokovic, I think Medvedev's "wall mode" annoys him and frustrates him, and struggles to find a way to make points sometimes. Other than Novak himself, Medvedev might be the player with highest shot tolerance.

Yes, they've played "to the end," but that includes indoor matches where Nadal is not at his best, and in the grand slam meetings, Medvedev was in some ways lucky they went to five sets. Nadal was very close to ending USO in 3, and certainly outplayed Medvedev for 4 sets at AO.

 

[MadariKatu]

Yes, they've played "to the end," but that includes indoor matches where Nadal is not at his best, and in the grand slam meetings, Medvedev was in some ways lucky they went to five sets. Nadal was very close to ending USO in 3, and certainly outplayed Medvedev for 4 sets at AO.

I'd say at the AO Nadal was lucky that it didn't end in 3 sets. He outplayed him in the 3rd and 4th, but the 2nd and 5th for me were a toss up. And in the 3rd, like Nadal himself said, that 3-2 0-40 was like match balls; it was only after he managed to serve that out that the match really changed.

 

[aman92]

He struggles with the variety of Nadal whereas finds Djokovic's pusher game much easier to handle.. Same reason Stan had so much more success against Djokovic though by employing a different strategy

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Bull can moonball like no one else and every other player except one struggle against him, not only Med.

 

[weakera]

Bull can moonball like no one else and every other player except one struggle against him, not only Med.

That would make sense if he moonballed at all at AO or WTF but, alas

 

[Deleted member 788697]

Nadal has more variety, and more versatile groudnstrokes.
Djokovic mostly tries to outlast Medvedev, and doesn't have enough variety.
Nadal has lost a lot more athleticism than Djokovic has over the years..... but Nadal is a better tennis player.

 

[weakera]

Nadal has more variety, and more versatile groudnstrokes.
Djokovic mostly tries to outlast Medvedev, and doesn't have enough variety.
Nadal has lost a lot more athleticism than Djokovic has over the years..... but Nadal is a better tennis player.

Nadal definitely has a much bigger and more effective toolbox

 

[Thriller]

Weight of shot. Rafa hits a heavier ball. It's plainly visible that Medvedev has to stand further back against Rafa and that reduces his potential for attack and exposes him to drop shots and short angles.

 

[weakera]

Weight of shot. Rafa hits a heavier ball. It's plainly visible that Medvedev has to stand further back against Rafa and that reduces his potential for attack and exposes him to drop shots and short angles.

That helps but I don't think that's everything. Nadal also has a much better slice than Djokovic which is a very effective tool against Medvedev who struggles to generate his own pace and to make a meaningful reply in a rally against a low slice. Mannarino was good prep for Nadal in this regard. Flat/low hitters hate low slice.

 

[ibbi]

I think the issue is less Medvedev's than Djokovic's. If you want to mess with Novak, hit flat.

 

[darthrafa]

med plays a similar style of djoker
med has strength of consistence and would wait for djoker making mistakes or hitting winners through rallies
however facing rafa, his endurance still is a level below djoker and rafa has different game plan and atm med still not yet figured them out

 

[Goof]

Because Nadal is better.

 

[NeutralFan]

On one hand, Medvedev doesn't put so much pressure on Nadal's serve as Djokovic does, which makes Nadal serve more comfortably.

That's wrong considering Nadal was barely holding any service game throughout 5 sets

 

[Thriller]

That helps but I don't think that's everything. Nadal also has a much better slice than Djokovic which is a very effective tool against Medvedev who struggles to generate his own pace and to make a meaningful reply in a rally against a low slice. Mannarino was good prep for Nadal in this regard. Flat/low hitters hate low slice.

I don't think it is a coincidence that clay is Medvedev's worst surface. All that heavy topspin pushing him back behind the baseline blunts his tactical opportunities. Rafa generates enough topspin to bring that kind of challenge to every surface.

 

[MadariKatu]

That's wrong considering Nadal was barely holding any service game throughout 5 sets

My eye test tells me Nadal wasn't serving well. I meant the serve itself more than the service game. Medvedev has great defense, but he generally doesn't make Nadal step back and half-volley right after serving the way Djokovic often does.

 

[NeutralFan]

My eye test tells me Nadal wasn't serving well. I meant the serve itself more than the service game. Medvedev has great defense, but he generally doesn't make Nadal step back and half-volley right after serving the way Djokovic often does.

Nadal served 81% of first serve in 3rd set still he was struggling , he served around 70% in 5th still barely holding. If you look at their US open final their games were very close with lots of break points .it's totally wrong to say that he doesn't put pressure on Nadal's serve . If anything thier service game is quite open whenever they play each other with lots of breaks and break points with Nadal winning the important ones.

 

[lud]

On one hand, Medvedev doesn't put so much pressure on Nadal's serve as Djokovic does, which makes Nadal serve more comfortably. On the other, his game is not so much about taking time from the opponent, which is one of the reasons Nadal struggles so much with Djokovic (or did with Davydenko).

Also, don't forget that except their first match, Nadal and Medvedev have always gone till the very end. USO 2019, AO 2022, and both WTF matches, in one of them Nadal had match point (and lost), and in the other Medvedev was 5-1 40-0 in the second, having won the first, and lost.
So, it's not as one sided as h2h numbers might suggest.

Regarding Djokovic, I think Medvedev's "wall mode" annoys him and frustrates him, and struggles to find a way to make points sometimes. Other than Novak himself, Medvedev might be the player with highest shot tolerance.

Nadal DID NOT have match point in WTF 2020 vs Medvedev.

 

[Nuclear]

People are acting as if the AO 21 final never happened. Djokovic used plenty of variety and outplayed Medvedev.

 

[TheNachoMan]

People are acting as if the AO 21 final never happened. Djokovic used plenty of variety and outplayed Medvedev.

Nah Djokovic sucks bro. USO 2021 is the only match they ever played.

 

[MadariKatu]

Nadal DID NOT have match point in WTF 2020 vs Medvedev.

Then he missed one point that would have given him match point, or? I remember he was extremely close in the tie break.

 

[dapchai]

How many times has Med practiced with Rafa? A hitting partner should be easier do deal with.

 

[MadariKatu]

Nadal served 81% of first serve in 3rd set still he was struggling , he served around 70% in 5th still barely holding. If you look at their US open final their games were very close with lots of break points .it's totally wrong to say that he doesn't put pressure on Nadal's serve . If anything thier service game is quite open whenever they play each other with lots of breaks and break points with Nadal winning the important ones.

Fair enough. With Djokovic though, Nadal gets broken much more often, so I still say that he puts more pressure on his service. And like I said before, not only his service game, but the serve itself. To me watching Nadal play Djokovic, other than clay, feels as if Nadal were defending himself when he returns and also when he serves, because of how close to his feet Novak returns. Medvedev doesn't do this, at least not often, and if so, he does it from further away, giving Nadal more time to react.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Djo and Med have twice as many meetings, so certainly more opportunity for losses at this point. Then surface seem to be suspect too (Nadal's few meetings are all on HC).

Nadal v Med - 4 v 1 - 80% v 20%
Djo v Med - 6 v 4 - 60% v 40%

Nadal v Djo - 28 v 30 - 48% v 52%

 

[NeutralFan]

Fair enough. With Djokovic though, Nadal gets broken much more often, so I still say that he puts more pressure on his service. And like I said before, not only his service game, but the serve itself. To me watching Nadal play Djokovic, other than clay, feels as if Nadal were defending himself when he returns and also when he serves, because of how close to his feet Novak returns. Medvedev doesn't do this, at least not often, and if so, he does it from further away, giving Nadal more time to react.

Well, if you lose match after breaking 7 times and earning 23 bps i don't think putting pressure on service game was reason for your defeat. With Djokovic difference is Djokovic holds his serve better than Med does against Nadal .

 

[20 20 20]

Variety. Overall Djokovic is easier to figure out and he make him run side was which he dont mind while nadal mixed it up with drop shots and make him come forward which exposes his limited net game, having said that the difference is not that big except their first match nadal struggles a lot against med h2h isn't always reliable

 

[Phoenix*]

I'm not sure Djokovic struggles. He won pretty easily in Australia and Paris. At US open, Med had nothing to lose and Djokovic everything.

 

[James P]

Three of those matches were extremely tight and winnable (along with the win Medvedev had which was quite losable). This could just as easily be 4-1 or 3-2 Medvedev if he had a bit more of a killer instinct. For whatever reason, Rafa gives him fits and a matchup problem he's struggling to overcome.

 

[Steffi-forever]

Three of those matches were extremely tight and winnable (along with the win Medvedev had which was quite losable). This could just as easily be 4-1 or 3-2 Medvedev if he had a bit more of a killer instinct. For whatever reason, Rafa gives him fits and a matchup problem he's struggling to overcome.

Right! 2019 USO & WTF and 2021 AO could have gone either way.

 

[NoleFam]

Much easier is a stretch. Both times he played Nadal in a Slam, the match went down to the wire in 5 sets, and he choked another match against him at the WTF while up 5-1 in the 3rd set. Nadal/Medvedev's last 4 matches all were close, 3-1 to Nadal. The last 5 matches of Djokovic/Medvedev is 3-2 Djokovic, with both winning easily in the Slam matches, two 3 setters that went Djokovic's way, and Medvedev winning easily at the WTF.

 

[tex123]

Novak fanbase may erupt but I'll say it anyway as it is a fact. Out of big 3, he's the least versatile. Note that it is _NOT_ a dig at Novak. Both Fed and Nadal have a lot of variety in their game. Medvedev is a poor man's Novak. Well, it would be an insult to Novak to even compare them as Novak has significantly superior toolset to Medvedev. But their game is a bit similar which shows in their h2h. Novak can slice and drop shot. He's a better volleyer than Med for sure. But he can't mix up the game like Nadal and Fed can. That may be because it hurts his own game - i.e. consistent baseline attrition game. One such example is slice employed by opponents like Thiem or Dan Evans against Novak. He does not like it at all. The moment he's a bit below par, Med has the upper hand like he did at the US Open as they play a similar game.

I have posted this before but here it is again. See how Nadal is mixing up to tame Medvedev. That's brutal on a player that relies on rhythm.

 

[The Big Foe fan]

On one hand, Medvedev doesn't put so much pressure on Nadal's serve as Djokovic does, which makes Nadal serve more comfortably. On the other, his game is not so much about taking time from the opponent, which is one of the reasons Nadal struggles so much with Djokovic (or did with Davydenko).

Also, don't forget that except their first match, Nadal and Medvedev have always gone till the very end. USO 2019, AO 2022, and both WTF matches, in one of them Nadal had match point (and lost), and in the other Medvedev was 5-1 40-0 in the second, having won the first, and lost.
So, it's not as one sided as h2h numbers might suggest.

Regarding Djokovic, I think Medvedev's "wall mode" annoys him and frustrates him, and struggles to find a way to make points sometimes. Other than Novak himself, Medvedev might be the player with highest shot tolerance.

If you don't know tennis history, then don't type random s**t.

Nadal never had match point in the WTF 2020 SF he lost, he served for it at 5-4 in the 2nd set and got broken to 0-40

Medvedev did have a match point on Nadal's serve at 5-1 in the 3rd set of WTF2019 RR, but it was at 30-40 which nadal saved brilliantly, afterwards med served for the match twice at 5-2 & 5-4, lost serve both times.

 

[Kralingen]

Slice.

Left handed FH weight of shot pulling Med’s (already embarrassing) court positioning even deeper and even wider.

Djoko also doesn’t like the Medvedev flat ball and I find Med’s BH is lethal going DTL off a righty BH cross court, but he can’t do it as effectively vs Nadal.

And, also, two awful collapses of matches that were basically won (WTF and AO ‘22) makes this look worse than it is for Med. It’s certainly not like there’s much of a difference.