If Daniil Medvedev was born a decade earlier, would he realistically achieve more than Tsonga or Berdych in the Big Four era ?

[TsitsiBH]

I saw a mind boggling stat this morning. Tsonga won 29% of his matches against Federer Nadal and Djokovic (16 wins in 55 matches). Medvedev won 25% of his matches against Federer Nadal and Djokovic (6 wins in 24 matches). I would have expected Medvedev to have better stats because when he faced the Big 3 they were not at their peak anymore. Medvedev is 1-5 against Nadal on hardcourt and 0-3 against Federer on hardcourt even if he's seen as the ultimate HC specialist.

Obviously most people would rank Medvedev's career ahead of players like Tsonga Berdych Soderling and Ferrer who couldn't win Grand Slams because of peaking in the same era as Federer Nadal Djokovic and Murray.

Daniil became world #1 (in a special year with Djokovic being prevented from playing many events but still) and won a Slam title as well as 6 Mastdrs trophies but I wonder how much weight do you put it to the era's timing ? According to betting odds Medvedev was the clear favourite against Nadal in the Australian Open final in 2022 but he couldn't finish a 35 year old Rafa off.

Another issue is that Berdych and Tsonga were competitive at all Grand Slams on all surfaces. I'm yet to see a memorable match from Medvedev at Roland-Garros or Wimbledon.

All of this leads me to think that Medvedev would just be another very good 2nd tier player like Tsonga Berdych Ferrer over a decade ago. He would be consistently blocked by Federer Nadal Djokovic and Murray on hardcourt and he would obviously struggle even more than now on clay or grass. Do you agree with me ?

 

[Jonesy]

All i know is that Tsitsipas backhand would suck balls no matter the era.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Let's see when meddy career ends. He is no Djokovic but he is good enough to dominate hc masters.

These two overhyped osers did absolutely nothing. Big 3 dominated erdych so much I don't know how he didn't retire earlier. Any self respecting man would.

 

[nolefam_2024]

The wins from tsonga and erdych were on some really weak Rafole

 

[Neptune]

But who, outside of the Big 4, is superior to the second-tier player during the 2008-2016 Big 4 era (defined by Murray entering and exiting the top 4 at Year-End)?
And who is the boss of the Big 4 era? Is he exceptional?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Tsonga and erdych are two most sympathetic players because they got beat by big 3. But that proves nothing. These guys barely won a few times vs big 3. And erdych is completely clueless

 

[TsitsiBH]

Let's see when meddy career ends. He is no Djokovic but he is good enough to dominate hc masters.

These two overhyped osers did absolutely nothing. Big 3 dominated erdych so much I don't know how he didn't retire earlier. Any self respecting man would.

I don't know if he is personally. Medvedev won just 1 of the last 20 big HC tournaments (post-USO 2021 basically) and that was without even beating Novak Carlos Sascha or Stef.

Norrie Fritz Hurkacz Coric and Carreno all won as many HC Masters titles under his watch as he did himself since then.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Tsonga and erdych are two most sympathetic players because they got beat by big 3. But that proves nothing. These guys barely won a few times vs big 3. And erdych is completely clueless

Tsonga won 16 times against the Big 3. Only Murray and Del Potro have more wins.

Tsonga and Berdych beat all Big 3 players at Slams. Only Murray and Wawrinka can say the same thing.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I don't know if he is personally. Medvedev won just 1 of the last 20 big HC tournaments (post-USO 2021 basically) and that was without even beating Novak Carlos Sascha or Stef.

Norrie Fritz Hurkacz Coric and Carreno all won as many HC Masters titles under his watch as he did himself since then.

You are right. He didn't beat these 4. But why are you adding stef. He is no hc great player.

Meddy beat Zverev and Alcaraz in last 2 hc slams. Also post 2021 USO is pretty good range but meddy was having hernia surgery.

 

[TsitsiBH]

But who, outside of the Big 4, is superior to the second-tier player during the 2008-2016 Big 4 era (defined by Murray entering and exiting the top 4 at Year-End)?
And who is the boss of the Big 4 era? Is he exceptional?

Novak is the best of the Big 4 era in my eyes but I don't want to make this thread about Novak Roger Rafa and Andy because there are millions of threads about them

 

[nolefam_2024]

Tsonga won 16 times against the Big 3. Only Murray and Del Potro have more wins.

Tsonga and Berdych beat all Big 3 players at Slams. Only Murray and Wawrinka can say the same thing.

Tsonga is less overrated than erdych but tsonga is no great either. He had exploitable bh wing and doesn't have shot tolerance to go vs player like meddy. He is quite explosive but has won almost nothing.

 

[Pencak]

But who, outside of the Big 4, is superior to the second-tier player during the 2008-2016 Big 4 era (defined by Murray entering and exiting the top 4 at Year-End)?
And who is the boss of the Big 4 era? Is he exceptional?

The strong era ended in 2014. 2015 is not strong era with nadal injured and 2016 with federer and nadal out.

 

[TsitsiBH]

You are right. He didn't beat these 4. But why are you adding stef. He is no hc great player.

Meddy beat Zverev and Alcaraz in last 2 hc slams. Also post 2021 USO is pretty good range but meddy was having hernia surgery.

Yes but I think that's the point. Med had 2 great wins in the last 2 HC Slams but he couldn't back it up in the finals. In the Big 4 era it was literally all about stringing multiple iconic wins to get a Slam.

When Tsonga pulled off a massive upset against a strong Federer in Wimbledon 2011 he then faced a sublime Djokovic who had lost once in the past 8 months. I don't really see Medvedev recording back-to-back wins against the Big 4 at any Slam in that time.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Tsonga is less overrated than erdych but tsonga is no great either. He had exploitable bh wing and doesn't have shot tolerance to go vs player like meddy. He is quite explosive but has won almost nothing.

Tsonga had an elite serve, a top tier forehand and a good net play ability. I think he has the game to beat Medvedev considering how much Daniil struggles against attacking players who have good volleys like Kyrgios Korda and Hurkacz (Tsonga is better at tennis than all 3).

 

[nolefam_2024]

Yes but I think that's the point. Med had 2 great wins in the last 2 HC Slams but he couldn't back it up in the finals. In the Big 4 era it was literally all about stringing multiple iconic wins to get a Slam.

When Tsonga pulled off a massive upset against a strong Federer in Wimbledon 2011 he then faced a sublime Djokovic who had lost once in the past 8 months. I don't really see Medvedev recording back-to-back wins against the Big 4 at any Slam in that time.

So you are saying I should forget every single thing from 2019 2020 2021 2022 AO etc ?

And if meddy didn't win last 2 slams it's still far better than both tsonga and erdych because they made 1 slam final in whole career.

His minimum is already better than their maximum.

Now he is just 27 and is very fit. Why are you acting like his career is over? Also he already won big titles beating all. Remember ATP finals 2020. There is not one great tournament by erdych which can rival meddy ATP finals 2020.

 

[FeroBango]

You're only as good as your era. Medvedev born then may have worked to elevate his level even more but would have ended with the same returns because the level of the Big 3 themselves would have elevated accordingly.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Tsonga had an elite serve, a top tier forehand and a good net play ability. I think he has the game to beat Medvedev considering how much Daniil struggles against attacking players who have good volleys like Kyrgios Korda and Hurkacz (Tsonga is better at tennis than all 3).

Yes tsonga is explosive player with game which can beat meddy. Meddy is not 3 tiers above him. But on average meddy would win many a times vs tsonga while tsonga would win a few times vs meddy. Check whatever the tsonga Murray H2H was. It might be similar..

 

[TsitsiBH]

Be

So you are saying I should forget every single thing from 2019 2020 2021 2022 AO etc ?

And if meddy didn't win last 2 slams it's still far better than both tsonga and erdych because they made 1 slam final in whole career.

His minimum is already better than their maximum.

Now he is just 27 and is very fit. Why are you acting like his career is over? Also he already won big titles beating all. Remember ATP finals 2020. There is not one great tournament by erdych which can rival meddy ATP finals 2020.

Berdych's AO 2012 level > Medvedev's Tour Finals 2020 level (arguably)

 

[nolefam_2024]

Be

Berdych's AO 2012 level > Medvedev's Tour Finals 2020 level (arguably)

What rubbish

Are you a Nadal fanatic?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Erdych is hyped by fanatics of Nadal to the moon. If he faced Nole instead of Rafa he would get humiliated in 2012.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Hc Djokovic is 21-0 vs erdych humiliating him so many times including just 1 year ago in 2011 ao

 

[nolefam_2024]

Even tsonga is hyped way more than he should but him being more all court player than ball bashing man erdych at least he would have some more chances.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Talking about erdych as some world beater is crazy. He is a defn of pigeon.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Yes tsonga is explosive player with game which can beat meddy. Meddy is not 3 tiers above him. But on average meddy would win many a times vs tsonga while tsonga would win a few times vs meddy. Check whatever the tsonga Murray H2H was. It might be similar..

Murray is a nightmare match-up for Tsonga because his crosscourt BH is deadly and so are his returns and passing shots.

Tsonga would exploit Medvedev's return position.

Also Murray is far better than Medvedev in general especially on grass. Peak Tsonga surely beats peak Medvedev at Wimbledon.

 

[TsitsiBH]

What rubbish

Are you a Nadal fanatic?

No I am not but I honestly think AO 2012 is Rafa's HC peak. He played out of his mind against Berdych Federer and Djokovic. And Tomas kept him honest for a while in that match.

What's so impressed about Medvedev beating 34 year old Rafa on indoors HC where he was never that good in the first place ? Nadal choked when he served for the match so it's not like Medvedev humiliated him.

 

[Kralingen]

Worse obviously.

Anyone voting better doesn’t know ball.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Murray is a nightmare match-up for Tsonga because his crosscourt BH is deadly and so are his returns and passing shots.

Tsonga would exploit Medvedev's return position.

Also Murray is far better than Medvedev in general especially on grass. Peak Tsonga surely beats peak Medvedev at Wimbledon.

Medvedev is this gens Murray.

What meddy backhand isn't deadly cc or his returns not great enough

 

[nolefam_2024]

Most members here doesn't know ball. Even those claiming others don't know it.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Medvedev is this gens Murray.

What meddy backhand isn't deadly cc or his returns not great enough

Murray is far better than Medvedev. He wouldn't be owned by Korda and Kyrgios in HC Slams at his peak.

And on grass he's miles clear of course. Clay too.

 

[johnmccabe]

Maddie is a quick learner. He has started to address his return position. He may stay just below Novak sinner Alcaraz for quite a few years.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Maddie is a quick learner. He has started to address his return position. He may stay just below Novak sinner Alcaraz for quite a few years.

He is 28 years old while Novak in 36 and Carlos in 20. If Meddy was a generational talent he would be dominating tennis against post-prime Djoker and pre-prime Alcaraz/Sinner

 

[Phenomenal]

No I am not but I honestly think AO 2012 is Rafa's HC peak. He played out of his mind against Berdych Federer and Djokovic. And Tomas kept him honest for a while in that match.

What's so impressed about Medvedev beating 34 year old Rafa on indoors HC where he was never that good in the first place ? Nadal choked when he served for the match so it's not like Medvedev humiliated him.

Agree just think AO 2012 Nadal's third best HC slam after 09AO and 2010 USO.

Just because @nolefam_2024 prefers some players more than other that shouldn't mean they are worse lol. I'm not sure if people overrate berdych i don't anyway. Also maybe he thinks only players can be good if they perform well against Djokovic lol.

As much as i don't like Murray much since he wasn't even close most of the time in slam finals against Djokovic, Federer Murray probably much much better player than Medvedev. Just much better version.

 

[Phenomenal]

Same for Wawrinka while he has good wins and better record against Djokovic than Murray. Wawrinka is much easier opponent for Fedal. It's not even comparable to be fair at slams.

Wawrinka atleast win or came close to it against some of the best versions of Djokovic.

For Medvedev just look at his 2021 AO and 2023 USO matches. Really terrible level play from him and despite i always appreciate Djokovic at AO.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Same for Wawrinka while he has good wins and better record against Djokovic than Murray. Wawrinka much easier opponent for Fedal. It's not even comparable to be fair at slams he wouldn't.

Wawrinka atleast win or came close to it against some of the best versions of Djokovic.

For Medvedev just look at his 2021 AO and 2023 USO matches. Really terrible level play from him and despite i always appreciate Djokovic at AO.

Wawrinka is much worse player vs fedal than vs Nole. It's not fair to relegate him to Berdych though. Berdych won't win even vs 2014 AO Nadal.

 

[Phenomenal]

Wawrinka is much worse player vs fedal than vs Nole. It's not fair to relegate him to Berdych though. Berdych won't win even vs 2014 AO Nadal.

I didn't compared him to Berdych ofc he is better. Although berdych has some wins against Federer too like USO 2012.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Same for Wawrinka while he has good wins and better record against Djokovic than Murray. Wawrinka is much easier opponent for Fedal. It's not even comparable to be fair at slams.

Wawrinka atleast win or came close to it against some of the best versions of Djokovic.

For Medvedev just look at his 2021 AO and 2023 USO matches. Really terrible level play from him and despite i always appreciate Djokovic at AO.

Yes Wawrinka was terrible against Federer (0 wins outside clay) and Nadal (0 sets won outside of Rafa's historically poor 2015 year + AO 2014 injury)

 

[TsitsiBH]

Wawrinka is much worse player vs fedal than vs Nole. It's not fair to relegate him to Berdych though. Berdych won't win even vs 2014 AO Nadal.

Berdych won against AO 2015 Nadal who was at least able to run and serve over 170 kmh (wasn't the case a year before vs Stan)

 

[nolefam_2024]

I didn't compared him to Berdych ofc he is better. Although berdych has some wins against Federer too like USO 2012.

So just because he beat fed in r16/ qf or something would he win the slam? Fed did start getting bullied on his 1 hander before switching to bigger racket by 2014. Erdych is power hitter. He didn't reach the final.

 

[johnmccabe]

He is 28 years old while Novak in 36 and Carlos in 20. If Meddy was a generational talent he would be dominating tennis against post-prime Djoker and pre-prime Alcaraz/Sinner

Anyone staying top 5 for a few years are generational talent to me. I don't engage in this kind of debates.

 

[Phenomenal]

Berdych won against AO 2015 Nadal who was at least able to run and serve over 170 kmh (wasn't the case a year before vs Stan)

Yeah he should know Nadal was fully injured in that mach. Only some people here or Nadal haters don't believe. He might still lost to Wawrinka but Nadal was good enough to win the tournament in 2014 before final.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Agree just think AO 2012 Nadal's third best HC slam after 09AO and 2010 USO.

Just because @nolefam_2024 prefers some players more than other that shouldn't mean they are worse lol. I'm not sure if people overrate berdych i don't anyway. Also maybe he thinks only players can be good if they perform well against Djokovic lol.

As much as i don't like Murray much since he wasn't even close most of the time in slam finals against Djokovic, Federer Murray probably much much better player than Medvedev. Just much better version.

And just because rafans rate his 4 set win vs erdych doesn't make him some unassailable force. If he had faced Nole he would be sent packing in probably 3 sets like 2011
1 6 1

Rafa has habit of making players look better than they are. Based on his return and rallying positions and ceding court to let them attack. Remember Khachanov USOpen 2018?

 

[TsitsiBH]

So just because he beat fed in r16/ qf or something would he win the slam? Fed did start getting bullied on his 1 hander before switching to bigger racket by 2014. Erdych is power hitter. He didn't reach the final.

Berdych actually targetted Roger's forehand a lot in their USO 2012 match

He didn't reach the final because he faced Murray in semis. Not everyone can have Slam semis against Zverev Stef or Felix haha

 

[nolefam_2024]

Yeah he should know Nadal was fully injured in that mach. Only some people here or Nadal haters don't believe. Nadal was good enough to win the tournament in 2014 before final.

Was Nadal injured in set 1 of the final? He lost it 6-3

 

[Phenomenal]

So just because he beat fed in r16/ qf or something would he win the slam? Fed did start getting bullied on his 1 hander before switching to bigger racket by 2014. Erdych is power hitter. He didn't reach the final.

So was Federer better player after 2014 than he is in 2000's. He also won in Wimbledon. You are just so biased not talking about berdych in general.

Not switching to bigger racket shouldn't be a problem i meant.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Anyone staying top 5 for a few years are generational talent to me. I don't engage in this kind of debates.

Easier so stay in the top 5 when you don't compete with the Big 4 in their best years. If Medvedev was truly generational he would have figured out all surfaces by now

 

[nolefam_2024]

So was Federer better player after 2014 than he is in 2000's. He also won in Wimbledon. You are just so biased not talking about berdych in general.

No. What big 2000s win does erdych have over Federer.

 

[TsitsiBH]

No. What big 2000s win does erdych have over Federer.

Olympics 2004 + Also took him to 5 sets in an epic AO 2009 battle

 

[nolefam_2024]

Olympics 2004 + Also took him to 5 sets in an epic AO 2009 battle

Fed has been taken to five in AO by tisparevic.

 

[Neptune]

Berdych actually targetted Roger's forehand a lot in their USO 2012 match

He didn't reach the final because he faced Murray in semis. Not everyone can have Slam semis against Zverev Stef or Felix haha

Thus far, anyone facing Zverev in a Slam semifinal has failed to secure the title (except when Zverev retired).

 

[TsitsiBH]

Thus far, anyone facing Zverev in a Slam semifinal has failed to secure the title (except when Zverev retired).

Anyone facing Zverev in a Slam semifinal has managed to reach the final (except Carreno who only got there because of a Novak DQ)