Wimbledon 2019 final... The best match in history, claimed by...

[Bender]

As a Federer and Djokovic fan-- originally just a Federer fan but then I learnt to appreciate what Djokovic has done over time-- I think Wimbledon 2019 is the greatest match of all time.

As a Federer and Nadal Djokovic fan, I think the 2008 2019 final was the greatest match of all time.

As a Federer and Nadal Djokovic fan--originally just a Federer Nadal fan but then I learnt to realise Federer Nadal was about to lose the slem race--I think Wimbledon 2019 is the greatest match of all time.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Having a wee giggle there.

 

[thrust]

He played at a higher level.

Novak won 3 sets, Federer won 2, therefore, it would seem to me that Novak was the better player that glorious day.

 

[Steve0904]

Lol greatest choke ever. Full match? Naw.

I agree in part, because it was definitely a bad choke, no denying that, but even then it doesn't come close to the greatest choke ever. Only in magnitude and potential impact on the slam race. Historical things like that. But all things equal I think there have been worse chokes. In fact, I'm certain of it, starting with Coria at RG 2004.

I would even say Federer's at USO 2011 was worse because he didn't even make it to the TB, and played badly to lose his serve at 5-6 as well.

At least at Wimbledon, Federer kept playing good tennis until the TB, even had another BP at 10-10 IIRC.

 

[MichaelNadal]

At least at Wimbledon, Federer kept playing good tennis until the TB, even had another BP at 10-10 IIRC.

Hmm ill have to see, I don't remember that

 

[Breakpointerer]

Hmm ill have to see, I don't remember that

He had 2 at 11-11
On the first one he hit a slice that barely drifted wide

 

[MichaelNadal]

He had 2 at 11-11
On the first one he hit a slice that barely drifted wide

Lol everyone barely does something wrong that usually goes right when the match is on the line aganist Novak. Monfils and Thiem this year alone

 

[DeathStrike]

I thought Rafter / Ivanesovic was immense at Wimbledon

 

[DeathStrike]

I'd bet both my left nuts that if Fed had won then Mats would've changed his tune to include some under-cooked-rusty-peak-injured-misunderstood-and-wronged Novak muppetry.

I noticed once Mats was all over Novak in a commentary he loves that guy

 

[Born_to_slice]

Novak was terrible in both sets he lost and not too good apart from being clutch in the breakers in other 3 sets. Ironically, it's exactly his subpar level that allowed for the drama.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Novak was terrible in both sets he lost and not too good apart from being clutch in the breakers in other 3 sets. Ironically, it's exactly his subpar level that allowed for the drama.

Yep, it was drama created by an unfocused Djoker. When he knew it could cost him he came up big. This match was drama filled but not great tennis throughout.

You can't have a whole set essentially thrown by a player and it be the greatest match. Imagine if Djoker was playing his top level?

 

[Zebrev]

Novak won 3 sets, Federer won 2, therefore, it would seem to me that Novak was the better player that glorious day.

Roger contributed more.

 

[GabeT]

Roger deserved to win.

No

 

[weakera]

If the 2018 Wimbledon SF was a final, it would in my mind be a clear choice for GOAT match. It's up there regardless.

 

[vex]

Fed so old that he beat 5 years younger Nadal with relative ease, while in 2007-08 he couldn't.

Are you seriously trying to compare 2019 Nadal to 2008 Nadal on grass? lol

 

[Lew II]

Are you seriously trying to compare 2019 Nadal to 2008 Nadal on grass? lol

Yes. He lost only to Djokovic and Federer in the last two editions. His offensive game since 2017 is his best ever, just check his serve stats and his win percentage outside clay.

Old Federer owned Nadal on hardcourt too btw (5-0).

 

[Lew II]

@vex

Nadal's highest win percentage outside clay:

1) 2019 - 90.0%
2) 2013 - 87.8%
3) 2018 - 86.4%

Nadal's most service games won:

1) 2019 - 92.8%
2) 2017 - 90.1%

 

[Lew II]

Average win percentage of Big3 off clay:

2020 - 87.09
2019 - 86.00
2017 - 85.23
2018 - 84.94
2011 - 84.66
2012 - 84.46
2015 - 84.04
2013 - 83.97
2014 - 83.92
2010 - 82.26
2008 - 81.02
2009 - 80.45
2007 - 80.34
2006 - 79.15
2016 - 76.68
2005 - 76.41

Big3 are playing their best offensive game ever.

Slams won off clay in Big3's highest win percentage years 2011-15 and 2017-20:

Djokovic 14
Federer 4
Nadal 3

 

[vex]

Average win percentage of Big3 off clay:

2020 - 87.09
2019 - 86.00
2017 - 85.23
2018 - 84.94
2011 - 84.66
2012 - 84.46
2015 - 84.04
2013 - 83.97
2014 - 83.92
2010 - 82.26
2008 - 81.02
2009 - 80.45
2007 - 80.34
2006 - 79.15
2016 - 76.68
2005 - 76.41

Big3 are playing their best offensive game ever.

Slams won off clay in Big3's highest win percentage years 2011-15 and 2017-20:

Djokovic 14
Federer 4
Nadal 3

All that says is they are beating the competition which has declined. Where previously there were players who could upset them usually outside slams (Stan, Murray, Ninja, Cilic, Berd) now those guys are gone or effectively gone and replaced by kids who can’t beat them. The eye test says there has been an obvious decline in the level of the big 3.

 

[Lew II]

All that says is they are beating the competition which has declined. Where previously there were players who could upset them usually outside slams (Stan, Murray, Ninja, Cilic, Berd) now those guys are gone or effectively gone and replaced by kids who can’t beat them. The eye test says there has been an obvious decline in the level of the big 3.

Vex's eye test will soon replace the stats.

 

[vex]

Vex's eye test will soon replace the stats.

You can deny it all you want but it is what it is. Unless you’re trying to tell me that 2019/2020 Djokovic was better than 2011/2012/2014/2015 Djokovic?

 

[Lew II]

You can deny it all you want but it is what it is. Unless you’re trying to tell me that 2019/2020 Djokovic was better than 2011/2012/2014/2015 Djokovic?

That's not what we were talking about.

I think Big3 have a better offensive game now and they may have higher peak of play.

Here's another interesting thing, 9 of their 13 most dominant matches against top10 were in the last 7 years:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/big3s-top-matches-against-a-top10.669745/

 

[Lleytonstation]

If the 2018 Wimbledon SF was a final, it would in my mind be a clear choice for GOAT match. It's up there regardless.

The fact it had to be broke up bothers me though.

 

[RF-18]

@vex

Nadal's highest win percentage outside clay:

1) 2019 - 90.0%
2) 2013 - 87.8%
3) 2018 - 86.4%

Nadal's most service games won:

1) 2019 - 92.8%
2) 2017 - 90.1%

Nadals was the best player he could be in 2006, 08, TTW

 

[Lleytonstation]

Average win percentage of Big3 off clay:

2020 - 87.09
2019 - 86.00
2017 - 85.23
2018 - 84.94
2011 - 84.66
2012 - 84.46
2015 - 84.04
2013 - 83.97
2014 - 83.92
2010 - 82.26
2008 - 81.02
2009 - 80.45
2007 - 80.34
2006 - 79.15
2016 - 76.68
2005 - 76.41

Big3 are playing their best offensive game ever.

Slams won off clay in Big3's highest win percentage years 2011-15 and 2017-20:

Djokovic 14
Federer 4
Nadal 3

According to those stats it says more about their clay competition then theirselves.

 

[vex]

A

That's not what we were talking about.

I think Big3 have a better offensive game now and they may have higher peak of play.

Here's another interesting thing, 9 of their 13 most dominant matches against top10 were in the last 7 years:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/big3s-top-matches-against-a-top10.669745/

Again, you’re making my point for me. The top 10 is weaker now than it was when Murray and Stan were relevant. That’s all your numbers show. You boxed yourself into a corner. On one hand you KNOW that you CAN’T claim Djoker is playing better in 2019/20 than he was in 2011-15. On the other hand you’re trying to say Rafa and Fed are better than ever based on the same stats. I explained why the stats weren’t reflective of thier level. You can’t accept it because it doesn’t fit your narrative so you’re going to turn yourself into a pretzel defending a lost point

 

[Lew II]

A

Again, you’re making my point for me. The top 10 is weaker now than it was when Murray and Stan were relevant. That’s all your numbers show. You boxed yourself into a corner. On one hand you know halt hat you CAN’T claim Djoker is playing better in 2019/20 than he was in 2011-15. On the other hand you’re trying to say Rafa and Fed are better than ever based on the same stats. I explained why the stats weren’t reflective of thier level.

Thanks for your opinion but I don't trust your eye test very much.

 

[vex]

Thanks for your opinion but I don't trust your eye test very much.

Murray and Stan out of the top 10 has nothing to do with the eye test and everything to do with your stats.

Again, stand by your own point: tell us Djoker is better in 19/20 than he was in 2011 and 2015. If you can’t do that you got nothing, you’ve refuted your own point.

 

[weakera]

The fact it had to be broke up bothers me though.

Maybe it loses half a point for that, but in terms of drama and consistently high level of play, I don't know that it has an equal.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Maybe it loses half a point for that, but in terms of drama and consistently high level of play, I don't know that it has an equal.

I just remember feeling Rafa had it, and then it slowly slipped away. I need to rewatch it as I really only remember the first day of it.

 

[weakera]

I just remember feeling Rafa had it, and then it slowly slipped away. I need to rewatch it as I really only remember the first day of it.

I've watched the highlights and skimmed through the full match many times. I'm not sure why, but I enjoy the highlights even though Rafa lost, whereas some other notable losses like 2012 AO Final I have no appetite for. Funny that both players went 73:42 w:ue.

To me, Nadal definitely "had it," and was ultimately outgunning Djokovic with superior all court game, but he was also walking more of a tight rope in the 5th as Nole was serving more soundly. Ultimately the 3rd set TB was where Rafa truly lost - imo he wins in 4 if he converts the set point on his own serve.

I don't think we've seen Nadal fire from the baseline and have full command of his dtl fh and crosscourt bh simultaneously since that match. The Del Potro QF really put him into a zone, but all credit to Nole for withstanding the blows and coming out victorious.

 

[Legend of Borg]

controversial take:

Wimby 2018 semi felt like a parallel match with the 2019 finals

Nole seemingly out of it, outgunned and playing less than stellar, somehow gets the win

I dont think about Wimbledon 2018 too much nowadays but Im still shaking my head at the thought that a resurgent Djoker on the comeback trail after elbow surgery, losing to Marco frickin Ceccinato in 4 sets a month before Wimby, somehow manages to survive the barrage from Rafa, survives that heart stopper of a tiebreak in the 3rd set and eeks out a win deep in the 5th

big time 2019 finals vibe from that match