WTA vs ATP: Not a chance in hell (according to my country's DC captain)

pabletion

Hall of Fame
Ever since I joined this forum I've wondered about this, since, it seems it is always a hot topic, specially in the world of tennis (why not basketball? other sports????). One of my first posts was precisely asking about Serena (yes, her) and how she would match up against a lower ranked ATP player (500-ish).

How original was I, huh? Anyways.... trying not to make this OP a lenghty read, I was talking to the Cap yesterday (he's a great guy, he has been buying tons of strigs from me) and I thought Im gonna be bold and ask him if he thinks our number 1 player (career high 326 in 2011, now 637) could beat Serena Williams. I have to admit I was expecting a lenghty thought out answer in the lines of "well, maybe if he has a great day, 1st serves.... but it could get really competitive.... maybe they'd split sets.......... maybe Serena can beat him.....". But I was surprised somewhat of his abrupt "Of course, theres no chance, very different games".

Then we went on talking about all of the McEnroe "controversy" (yes, with quotations, 'cause it shouldnt be one) and how he said she'd rank in the 700's (wow! male fascists, mysoginists!!!). He mentioned, without even being aware of what McEnroe said, that he thought she wouldnt beat a top 1000 player. Why? Physical ability, biology. What we have all, who ever wondered about this, known for a very long time: men are stronger/faster than women. Serenas power is no match for a top 1000 player (or very good junior). Serenas speed is no match for a top 1000 (or junior) speed.

He told me a bunch of stories after that, of his own experiences, like how he practiced with a top 30 WTA player in Spain some years ago and how HE, very easily handled her pace (he's a chubby, short guy, about 5' 5"!), and how our No. 2 player (now ranked in the 900's) smacked Monica Puig with ease as well, and that, in the end, there are just things that, as a general rule, men are capable of physically that women, on account of BIOLOGY, arent, and that, the reason that mens and womens tennis are so different (variation, spins, etc) lies on this differences.

Of course, the only reason, in my mind, behind denying the reality and be "offended" by these type of comments, coming from an unknown Davis Cup captain (who no one cares about what he says) or a hall of famer like John McEnroe (who EVERYONE is offended by) is.............................. $$$.

Women players (of all sports apparently) want to make the SAME as men, without accepting the logic behind it which is SALES AND REVENUE. It has nothing to do with gender equality but how much their sports are generating (jeeeeeeeezzz, here we go spinning to THAT conversation again!).

I think I'm satisfied with our talk now, and the debate, is somewhat settled (well, its NOT gonna be completely settled until I see Serena playing the top 700 player in the world, which is NEVER gonna happen).

Thoughts? What do YOUR top coaches, former pros, have to say about it????
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You go from a biological argument to a commercial one without even realising that you haven't joined the dots.

Men are unsurprisingly better than women, yes, but there are no facts here about sales and revenue,

The two tours do not pay the same money, only the slams do, and before they introduced equality the gap was only 15% or so from memory.

In short, the difference was easily absorbable as a cost and it brought with it considerable marketing and other social benefits for growing the game as a whole.

The Slams are, mostly, run by national associations that use the revenue in part for the public benefit of financing and promoting tennis as a sport to young people.
 
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pabletion

Hall of Fame
You go from a biological argument to a commercial one without even realising that you haven't joined the dots.

Men are unsurprisingly better than women, yes, but there are no facts here about sales and revenue,

The two tours do not pay the same money, only the slams do, and before they introduced equality the gap was only 15% or so from memory.

In short, the difference was easily absorbable as a cost and it brought with it considerable marketing and other social benefits for growing the game as a whole.

The Slams are, mostly, run by national associations that use the revenue in part for the public benefit of financing and promoting tennis as a sport to young people.

Yeah, you're right.... they are two topics, but somewhat related, because in my view, the interested parties bring it to the conversation (i.e., women are as good as men, to say Serena would be ranked 700 is to diminish her career, an attack to women.....).

Someone made me aware that prize money is subsidized, in part, and that tournaments are free to do what they want, for example grand slams, are completely free to give the same prize money for both sexes. And its ok with me, but if the WTA doesnt rise, from a commercial point of view, how long can it be subsidized? And what will happen when the ATP is on a slump? No more subsidizing, and rest asure the girls wont be happy about this.

I digress yet again! I bring it up because there ARE pro tennis coaches (mainly, the ones on TV and the ones who COACH WTA players) who disagree with the statement regarding Serena.
There are even MORE tv broadcasters and personalities who COMPLETELY disagree with said statement, I even had a discussion with a local tv and radio sports guy here, who is on the side that our countries number 1 player WOULD NOT beat Serena.....

So its very clear to me, as of now: people who KNOW tennis are clear on this: not a chance.

People who know squat about tennis: delusional and/or want to be on the "battle of the sexes- batte for equality" boat.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
You go from a biological argument to a commercial one without even realising that you haven't joined the dots.

Men are unsurprisingly better than women, yes, but there are no facts here about sales and revenue,

The two tours do not pay the same money, only the slams do, and before they introduced equality the gap was only 15% or so from memory.

In short, the difference was easily absorbable as a cost and it brought with it considerable marketing and other social benefits for growing the game as a whole.

The Slams are, mostly, run by national associations that use the revenue in part for the public benefit of financing and promoting tennis as a sport to young people.
wow actually a good post.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, you're right.... they are two topics, but somewhat related, because in my view, the interested parties bring it to the conversation (i.e., women are as good as men, to say Serena would be ranked 700 is to diminish her career, an attack to women.....).

Someone made me aware that prize money is subsidized, in part, and that tournaments are free to do what they want, for example grand slams, are completely free to give the same prize money for both sexes. And its ok with me, but if the WTA doesnt rise, from a commercial point of view, how long can it be subsidized? And what will happen when the ATP is on a slump? No more subsidizing, and rest asure the girls wont be happy about this.

I digress yet again! I bring it up because there ARE pro tennis coaches (mainly, the ones on TV and the ones who COACH WTA players) who disagree with the statement regarding Serena.
There are even MORE tv broadcasters and personalities who COMPLETELY disagree with said statement, I even had a discussion with a local tv and radio sports guy here, who is on the side that our countries number 1 player WOULD NOT beat Serena.....

So its very clear to me, as of now: people who KNOW tennis are clear on this: not a chance.

People who know squat about tennis: delusional and/or want to be on the "battle of the sexes- batte for equality" boat.
If they pay prize money at slams based on revenue and pay women less, they will lose a lot more than the men will gain because not everyone thinks purely economically and might stay away from the tournament especially in today's social climate. No way to know for sure though.

It would be nice if the ATP stopped subsidizing as then lower ranked players would get more, but even now that problem is easily solvable without touching the WTA by just lowering the purse for the finalist/winner by a few hundred K.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
If they pay prize money at slams based on revenue and pay women less, they will lose a lot more than the men will gain because not everyone thinks purely economically and might stay away from the tournament especially in today's social climate. No way to know for sure though.

It would be nice if the ATP stopped subsidizing as then lower ranked players would get more, but even now that problem is easily solvable without touching the WTA by just lowering the purse for the finalist/winner by a few hundred K.

What? ATP subsidizes WTA events??? I though it was just the Grand Slam organizers that did!
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The two tours sell franchises to put on matches and a lot of the organisations they sell to want a joint tournament.

This does not mean equal prize money, but it does mean almost equal billing.

In a lot of countries tennis is state subsidised and women are taxpayers as well.

States or cities subsidise sport both for its tourism benefits and to promote sport to the young.

Either motive means that sports that have strong female competitions are now fashionable.

It's called 'growing the game'.

I don't think men 'subsidise' women, but the men's game does drag the women's one forward.

But tennis has always been an inclusive sport and everyone used to be paid equally in the amateur era; that is, they were all paid nothing.
 
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tacou

G.O.A.T.
What? ATP subsidizes WTA events??? I though it was just the Grand Slam organizers that did!
People say this but I have never seen anything written about it. Also not sure what that would imply..WTA is in the red and ATP is so profitable it pays for another pro sports league?
 

Tennisanity

Legend
Really begs the question could Serena beat LeeD? Course I'm not talking about 98 year old LeeD, but rather the peak version.
 
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