"You Don't Always Have to Hit a Winner"

[dcgator]

I was recently upgraded to 4.0 but was really wanting to play last night so I joined in on a 3.0-3.5 clinic.

I guess a little background is in order...I had stopped playing tennis for over 15 years. picked it back up over a year ago and went with this strategy....hit the ball hard whenever possible. Keep your eye on it but really drive through it as much as possible. During the beginning of my comeback I was predictably erratic. I was losing sets to inferior players due to my constant practice of trying to hit the ball hard and deep. However, over the last few months those shots I was really missing were turning into barely misses and very recently my game has become allot more consistent. And I am still trying to hit the ball hard.

Anyway, last night during a drill two players were at the net and two at the baseline (where I was.) The feed would come and I was courteous, not slamming the ball back because again, it was off the feed. However, when the ball came back I would aggressively hit the ball and either pass the net players or induce the error.

Finally after about 10 of these shots the instructor tells me that not every shot I hit has to be a winner.

I don't really understand this. Was he saying, you are better than most out here so just play nice? Or was he criticizing my game and trying to improve it, even though I missed maybe one shot out of the 10. If I did stop trying to hit a hard, clean, deep shot, aren't I hurting myself by prolonging any chance of improvement? Does it matter what level you are compared to the other players if its a clinic and you are simply looking for repetition to improve? I am going to talk to the instructor tonight but wanted some of your thoughts as well.

PS. sorry for the long post!!

 

[Sublime]

My guess is that the instructor has done a lot of 3.0 level clinics. If someone at that level (who he/she has never met before) is hitting the ball in and hard they are likely just lucky that day.

If you are not hitting out of your comfort zone (50%-80% of the racket speed you could produced, if accuracy was of no concern) and the result was 1 unforced error, 4+ winners, and the rest un-attackable I wouldn't change anything.

 

[MNPlayer]

My 2 cents:
In this situation you can either treat it as a simulated competition or as a way to work on something. One thing you can work on without blasting away at inferior players is shot tolerance. If you given them the opportunity to continue volleying back to you, you get the benefit of practicing short backswing half-volley shots and recovery. When I practice with someone at the net, I don't try to pass them everytime, I try to hit it a shot that is moderately difficult so we both get good practice.

The other reason he might have told you not to go for winners every time is that you might have been missing alot

 

[raiden031]

Probably should find out what the instructor meant.

I would guess he meant that you should only go for a winner when the opportunity is present. There is a big difference between going for a winner on every shot, and trying to pressure your opponents. All the pushers on this board think that pressuring an opponent is a stupid strategy and equivalent to attempting a winner on every shot.

The way I see it, you have to learn to pressure your opponents with power and also try to get them running off the court and learn to end the point on your terms. Its what you need to do to prepare yourself for higher levels of play. Just because you can beat player A at your level by keeping the ball in play and hitting all high-percentage shots, doesn't mean thats what you should always do. When you have a clear opportunity to end a point with a winner, you should take it because some day you will rely on these opportunities to win points against tough opponents who can do the same against you.

 

[LeeD]

You're in a clinic a full level below your ratings?
He's saying,...." keep the ball in play, use your rally groundies, not your winners", that's all.
What practice is it for you to hit winners and induce losers? You want to get deep returns so you can practice your passes. If you hit hard to 3.0's, when you play your level, you won't be handle 4.0 volleys at all. FEED THEM soft high balls, allow them to step into their volleys to you, THEN try to slam a few right at their forehand volleys.
Practice is a two way street. So you feed you big ego with winners against "3-3.5's"? Who cares? Better to use them to get YOUR game up to snuff, and believe me, at 4.0, all those volleys come back one bounce and within 4' of your baseline, low and skidded.

 

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

At that level consistency will win you more points than trying to hit winners on every shot. Work on moving your opponent around while hitting high percantage shots. Try to come in to the net if your opponent is in a defensive postion. Good luck.

 

[dcgator]

Probably should find out what the instructor meant.

I would guess he meant that you should only go for a winner when the opportunity is present. There is a big difference between going for a winner on every shot, and trying to pressure your opponents. All the pushers on this board think that pressuring an opponent is a stupid strategy and equivalent to attempting a winner on every shot.

The way I see it, you have to learn to pressure your opponents with power and also try to get them running off the court and learn to end the point on your terms. Its what you need to do to prepare yourself for higher levels of play. Just because you can beat player A at your level by keeping the ball in play and hitting all low-percentage shots, doesn't mean thats what you should always do. When you have a clear opportunity to end a point with a winner, you should take it because some day you will rely on these opportunities to win points against tough opponents who can do the same against you.

I felt I was really putting pressure on the net players. Most of the "winners" I hit were up the middle of the court. I wasn't going for the lines much (or really trying to hit winners to be honest), I just trying to hit a heavy ball, low, that fell deep in the court. I think the instructor mistook my swing for trying to hit a winner as opposed to my typical shot I have been working on for almost a year now.

 

[dcgator]

You're in a clinic a full level below your ratings?
He's saying,...." keep the ball in play, use your rally groundies, not your winners", that's all.
What practice is it for you to hit winners and induce losers? You want to get deep returns so you can practice your passes. If you hit hard to 3.0's, when you play your level, you won't be handle 4.0 volleys at all. FEED THEM soft high balls, allow them to step into their volleys to you, THEN try to slam a few right at their forehand volleys.
Practice is a two way street. So you feed you big ego with winners against "3-3.5's"? Who cares? Better to use them to get YOUR game up to snuff, and believe me, at 4.0, all those volleys come back one bounce and within 4' of your baseline, low and skidded.

It wasn't about ego or thinking I was better. I'm simply trying to consistently hit a hard ball and keep it in the court. When i first started this tactic I missed ALLLLOT and people would say, quit trying to hit so hard. Now that I am able to constantly do it, they want me as a doubles partner.

But I do see your point. I could have practised my slice (which is really non existent) instead of my top spin. Thanks for the alternative thought, it really didn't occur to me.

 

[LeeD]

You mentioned middle of the court against two practice lower level players.
WHY HIT UP THE MIDDLE? Those guys are a full level lower than you. You should be practicing hitting right to their forehand volleys, then increasing pace and spin after a few rally balls.
Are THEY trying to volley hard and deep to you? Probably not, they're just trying to extend the rally, feeding you soft balls.
And if you INADVERTANTLY hit up the middle, it's YOUR MISTAKE! Coach is saying you made a MISTAKE groundie. You're drilling here, 2 vs 1. NOT practicing winners.

 

[dcgator]

You mentioned middle of the court against two practice lower level players.
WHY HIT UP THE MIDDLE? Those guys are a full level lower than you. You should be practicing hitting right to their forehand volleys, then increasing pace and spin after a few rally balls.
Are THEY trying to volley hard and deep to you? Probably not, they're just trying to extend the rally, feeding you soft balls.
And if you INADVERTANTLY hit up the middle, it's YOUR MISTAKE! Coach is saying you made a MISTAKE groundie. You're drilling here, 2 vs 1. NOT practicing winners.

2 vs 2. I was trying to hit the ball cross court.

The net players were instructed to put it away when they could, and points were kept (first side to win 10 points "won" the drill)

 

[bhupaes]

I have a wide range of practice partners.

Against 3.0/3.5, and sometimes 4.0 players, my goal is to be 100% consistent - good, well placed topspin shots, defensive, and well within my capabilities. Apart from the fact that this is almost always enough to win, I also get a good workout because the ball will come back more often. I also tone down my serve and do more second (kick) serves, unless I am losing.

Against 4.5 players, it is much more even. The overall goal is consistency, of course, but the pace is much heavier, and I have to put in like a 90% effort on the average. I make more mistakes, but since "nothing" balls may get punished severely, I don't have a choice - I have to go for winners if I see an opening.

Against 5.0 players, I go for broke - 100%. I have to overuse my weapons - serve and forehand - and I still get only a couple of games at best per set... At this level, unless every shot is high quality, you will be put on the defense immediately, and unless you get lucky, the point is a foregone conclusion. I can usually make a shot if I am in position, but I don't have the fitness, movement, and anticipation to make it an even match against 5.0 players (I am working on it).

I think this is a good way to accommodate a wide range of players and still have fun!

 

[raiden031]

I felt I was really putting pressure on the net players. Most of the "winners" I hit were up the middle of the court. I wasn't going for the lines much (or really trying to hit winners to be honest), I just trying to hit a heavy ball, low, that fell deep in the court. I think the instructor mistook my swing for trying to hit a winner as opposed to my typical shot I have been working on for almost a year now.

Maybe because your opponents were inferior, that it was unecessary to hit big shots against them when you could still beat them hitting conservative shots. I think what you should've done really depends on the context of the drill.

 

[LeeD]

And in doubles, going up the middle IS GOING FOR A WINNER!!!!:shock:

 

[dcgator]

And in doubles, going up the middle IS GOING FOR A WINNER!!!!:shock:

So it shouldn't matter what I am working on. Which shots I wish to practice? Again, I understand I could have decided on a different shot to work on, and that was certainly where I erred. But overall, a clinic should be used to work on everyone elses shots? The pro knew my game and invited me to join in. Perhaps I should just decline the invite next time.

Also, I have been a 4.0 for a month. Had this been December, each participant would all be rated at around the same level.

 

[LeeD]

YOU might be working on first shot pass.
But the instructor and the two volleyers want to start out hitting some shots BEFORE you guys start increasing depth and pace.
You started out with pace and up the middle, without starting out the first couple of practice shots.
You know, when you hit with a buddy, you don't hit the first ball for a winner DTL or extreme CC, you basically feed the first ball up the middle and one bounce to your buddy. He then hit's a little harder, a few feet to your side, THEN you start to probe, repost, and strike.

 

[Zachol82]

No, no, you should go for winners all the time, not just "whenever possible."

 

[dcgator]

YOU might be working on first shot pass.
But the instructor and the two volleyers want to start out hitting some shots BEFORE you guys start increasing depth and pace.
You started out with pace and up the middle, without starting out the first couple of practice shots.
You know, when you hit with a buddy, you don't hit the first ball for a winner DTL or extreme CC, you basically feed the first ball up the middle and one bounce to your buddy. He then hit's a little harder, a few feet to your side, THEN you start to probe, repost, and strike.

I'll try that next tuesday. But I think I will pass on the 3.0/3.5 Thursday class and join the 4.5s in their drop-in league. That way I can't pass anyone!:twisted:

 

[LeeD]

You might want to rethink your strategy for practice.
I've got a little experience practicing with much better players in my life. Includes hitting with A-Open mens while I was C player, and also A-Open Women's then too.
Bad karma, trying to hit first and every shot hard.
Bad karma, trying to "win" practice points, especially off the first couple balls, in ANY league or level.
Worse karma, trying to hit your best shots all the time.
Good players KNOW they can hit good, and usually start rallies with 3-5 balls back and forth, then SLOWLY increase pace, spin, and placement AFTER the initial rally balls.
NOBODY is going to want to hit with you, if you try to hit hard right off the bat without some rally balls.
And most good players, don't rally as if it was a real point. They rally to get into shape, to hit extended rallies, and also to hit multiple balls, NOT to run for your best winners or hardest shots.
You're free to use any hitting tactic you want, but if you want better players (than you) to hit with, you'd better rethink your hitting strategy.

 

[tennis_balla]

Anyway, last night during a drill two players were at the net and two at the baseline (where I was.) The feed would come and I was courteous, not slamming the ball back because again, it was off the feed. However, when the ball came back I would aggressively hit the ball and either pass the net players or induce the error.

Finally after about 10 of these shots the instructor tells me that not every shot I hit has to be a winner.

I don't really understand this. Was he saying, you are better than most out here so just play nice? Or was he criticizing my game and trying to improve it, even though I missed maybe one shot out of the 10. If I did stop trying to hit a hard, clean, deep shot, aren't I hurting myself by prolonging any chance of improvement? Does it matter what level you are compared to the other players if its a clinic and you are simply looking for repetition to improve? I am going to talk to the instructor tonight but wanted some of your thoughts as well.

PS. sorry for the long post!!

You stated when you hit the ball it would either result in a winner or a miss from your side. Well look at it like this, whats the point in that? Lets say I'm coaching your session and I feed you the ball and you either crush it for a winner or miss it or the other player doesn't really get it back. I feed you another one and the same thing happens, I feed another and same result. What are you really working on? Nothing! What are the 2 people at the net working on? Nothing! There are no rallies, theres no movement, its a 2 shot sequence and you and your practice partners are getting nothing out of this. You're not working on footwork, you're not working on consistency, you're only really hitting balls that are fed to you which is pointless....now do you understand the point the coach was trying to make?
If you want an example, go on youtube and watch how some pro players practice, especially drills such as one player at the net and so on. They're going at about 75%, working on their timing, their rhythm, movement, consistency and so on. Theres none of that and no point in even being out there if you're killing balls off the feed and theres no benefit in you doing that also.

 

[GeorgeLucas]

just stop hitting winners it's not that hard man

 

[Cindysphinx]

OP,

I take a lot of clinics, so here is what I think.

Your instructor meant to say, "This is practice. In practice, each player has a responsibility to make sure every other player gets an opportunity to practice. If a player doesn't get to practice and you are the one hitting the ball to them, you have failed them. The two net players are practicing volleys. Please hit a medium-paced, well-placed shot to the net players so they can volley the ball back to them. In this way, we can have a drill. The screamers you are hitting are not allowing the net players to groove their technique, like how if I hit a screamer of a feed to you then you couldn't practice your technique either."

My pro is big on cooperation in clinic and doesn't like it when people try to "win" the drill.

 

[Solat]

to further Cindy's post...from the instructors perspective

Class Type : Intermediate Drills
Class Goals :
- hit a zillion balls
- stroke consistency
- stroke control
- tactical applications
- fitness / movement / workout

so I need to set up drills by where players are constantly active, get the opportunity to hit a lot of balls, allow players to groove techniques and learn / practice tactics and positioning.

whilst most drills are scored that is more to maintain intensity and encourage confident play under "pressure". Scoring should not override the goal of the exercise.

It is frustrating as a coach when our drill participants start to play an abundance of lobs against volleyers when the exercise is set up for the volleyers. If the drills is win however you like but you must start in these set positions then thats fine but if its set up to be groundstroke vs volley then it doesn't help out either party.

Its just the same old story that you should live your life by, treat others as you would like to be treated. What if you were the lower end player in a strong drills group and they kept pounding balls past you. For a while it would be fun and a challenge then by the end you wont have achieved much because you haven't practiced something applicable to your standard.

Its the best thing in the world to play with better players so long as they hit harder, spinnier, more consitant, better controlled then you, its not much use if they practice hitting winners against you.

Often in my own training sessions I don't serve at 100% as I have no real interest in hitting unreturnable serves, I want to practice playing points out, testing out tactics and shot selection etc. Without a doubt there are times when you need to practice everything at 100% but be selective about when you do it.

 

[ttbrowne]

Every once in a while one of our pros will fill in on drills for 3.5-4.0. They measure what you can handle and hit accordingly. I started doing the same thing to 3.0's. It's no good to slam it at them. Afterall, It's just a drill.

 

[robby c]

Next clinic hit two feeder goundstrokes before you go for a winner. You should count how many rallys you extend. Try not to miss the first ball the entire clinic.
Robby C

 

[Tennisman912]

Dcgator,

He was wanting you to understand and make the connection that you should have learned yourself. In the previous few months, trying to hit everything hard and deep, i.e. over hitting=losing badly and to inferior players. Now, in the clinic, you realized that when you don’t hit every shot as hard as you can, (ding, ding, ding) you hit the ball more solidly, consistently and effectively. You also realize in this clinic situation, you can’t hit it harder than the players present can handle or you are wasting everyone’s time by hitting great shots against inferior players that doesn’t work when your peers return them and then you over hit. No not rocket science but surprisingly common. This is all he was trying to convey.

The fact that the players were much weaker also may give a bit of a false sense of security and skill. But as you saw in the clinic, a consistent solid shot beats a hard shot that misses every time, especially at the lower levels. Don’t forget this lesson and go back to your old ways when playing with your peers. Consistency wins at the lower levels. There is a happy medium called controlled aggression (that is what I call it anyway). This is the speed of stroke that gives the most consistency with the most power you can consistently hit. You need to find what that is for your game and you will like the results. But don’t forget this chance to expand your game.

Best of luck

TM

 

[fruitytennis1]

. What if you were the lower end player in a strong drills group and they kept pounding balls past you.

Ahh on wednesday ill get to test what that feels like :shock: Gonna move up 2 the next level. Get ready for my bagels and breadsticks