They should rename the Wimbledon's mens singles trophy the 'Sampras Cup'

But it just so happens to be called the Venus rosewater dish :)

venus-williams-shor_681325c.jpg

Yes while Sampras, Federer, and Navratilova fans in this thread call for a big tournament to be named in their honor, Venus is the only one who truly has that distinction. Long live queen Vee and the Venus trophy at Wimbledon for the Champion. :)
 
What was Sampras doing at 33-34?

And LOL at baby inexperienced Nadal. I guess the new experienced Nadal from 2012+ was a world beater on grass.

Given Nadal's performances on grass for years now (long since he started becoming a crap player on clay and all non grass surfaces) this talk of baby Nadal being in Wimbledon finals in his first years there is now truly comical. Maybe in 2011 and 2012 that line could work, but now it just seems daft.
 

RF20Lennon

Legend
How about they not name if after anyone? That cup has existed before Sampras and will exist after him. The Wimbledon Gentleman's Trophy is bigger than any player.
 

RF20Lennon

Legend
Sheesh, some people live in la la land. Federer was having heart attacks against baby non grass experienced Nadal for 2 years in a row before being beaten by him. Then goes and gets beat by Djok two years in a row. Sampras, his last ever pro match presented him with a USIO trophy, you're only as good as your last match. He could and would have gone on to win more Sampras Cups at the All Wimby Club but he was content, unlike Fed who looks like a tortured soul these days.

Sampras haters gonna hate. And you call yourself Americans.

Tennis is not a nationalistic sport. Stop making it one.

And baby Nadal? Because grown up Nadal is a monster on grass isn't he? ;)
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
- Becker wasn't at his best when Sampras was at his.
- Ivanisevic while being an extremely good player, sadly isn't an ATG.
- Agassi was here and there in the 90's. He was contending more in the early 2000s.

I had to disagree with this. Sure, Ivanisevic was not an all-time great, but they were playing at grass. AT GRASS. Where it doesn't matter if you're an all-time great or not. What matters are your grass court game. Look at Nadal. He's an all-time great. But he gets beaten in the first week year after year after year by who? Yes, mediocre players who will never reach the finals of any slam. And they're not even the Beckers or Ivanisevics of Wimbledon. And mind you, the grass where Nadal is playing and lost is never as fast as the grass of the 90s.

Regarding Becker, he was still very good when Sampras beat him.
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
Sheesh, some people live in la la land. Federer was having heart attacks against baby non grass experienced Nadal for 2 years in a row before being beaten by him. Then goes and gets beat by Djok two years in a row. Sampras, his last ever pro match presented him with a USIO trophy, you're only as good as your last match. He could and would have gone on to win more Sampras Cups at the All Wimby Club but he was content, unlike Fed who looks like a tortured soul these days.

Sampras haters gonna hate. And you call yourself Americans.

If Sampras played Nadal and Djokovic in that embarassment of a court you call Wimbledon green clay, then it would have been over in 4 sets with Nadal and Novak holding the trophy. What happened to Nadal the last 4 years when the grass is still fresh and slick at the first week of Wimbledon?
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
I had to disagree with this. Sure, Ivanisevic was not an all-time great, but they were playing at grass. AT GRASS. Where it doesn't matter if you're an all-time great or not. What matters are your grass court game. Look at Nadal. He's an all-time great. But he gets beaten in the first week year after year after year by who? Yes, mediocre players who will never reach the finals of any slam. And they're not even the Beckers or Ivanisevics of Wimbledon. And mind you, the grass where Nadal is playing and lost is never as fast as the grass of the 90s.

Regarding Becker, he was still very good when Sampras beat him.
Ivanisevic's mentality let him down a lot though. He had the tools (never denied that) but he didn't have the mindset any other year besides 2001.

Nadal is also not as good as he was when he was making Wimbledon finals. You can't really use him as an example; otherwise I could point to Goran getting totaled by Agassi on grass as proof of him not being great -- and like I said, although he had the tools to succeed, his mentality was not up to par.

Becker played some horrendous tennis during their '95 final. Wouldn't say he was 'very good' during that time period..
 

Fiero425

Legend
If Sampras played Nadal and Djokovic in that embarassment of a court you call Wimbledon green clay, then it would have been over in 4 sets with Nadal and Novak holding the trophy. What happened to Nadal the last 4 years when the grass is still fresh and slick at the first week of Wimbledon?

So now that the grass is more homogenized, why is Nadal falling by the wayside so soon the last several years! People are making their career highlights by abusing him in early rounds at Wimbledon! Soderling's set for life only because he eliminated Rafa on his home turf of clay in Paris back in '09! That one win is enough! ;-)
 

I am the Greatest!

Professional
So now that the grass is more homogenized, why is Nadal falling by the wayside so soon the last several years! People are making their career highlights by abusing him in early rounds at Wimbledon! Soderling's set for life only because he eliminated Rafa on his home turf of clay in Paris back in '09! That one win is enough! ;-)

Because grass was never really Nadal's surface. He was able to get away with it when he was younger and a much better player, but the grass was never really like the grass of the 90s. In the first week it is still slick, the reason why Nadal struggled in the first week even before, but it was still not as fast and slick as the 90s.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
This thread is just invitation for a Federer-Sampras debate with the ubers relentlessly attacking the other, and the others favorite player. Which is fine I guess, as atleast that is a step up from the 1000th Djokovic-Federer debate of the last 2 weeks.
I love Fedovic debates...I hate Federer and Sampras debates because those are two of my 3 most favorite players
 

timnz

Legend
So Federer made an additional 3 finals. Excellent. How did he do in those?

A lot better than Sampras. Sampras' 8th, 9th and 10th best finishes at Wimbledon were a semi-final, a quarter final and a fourth round placings vs 3 runner-ups for Federer.

No way is a semi, quarter and fourth round is superior than 3 runner-ups
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
A lot better than Sampras. Sampras' 8th, 9th and 10th best finishes at Wimbledon were a semi-final, a quarter final and a fourth round placings vs 3 runner-ups for Federer.

No way is a semi, quarter and fourth round is superior than 3 runner-ups

And thereby maintaining a 100% record in the final. Something you cannot say about Roger. Oh well
 

PeterHo

Hall of Fame
Technically yeah they should.

Fed isnt qualified to get the trophy in his name... he needs to retire first. Trophies are named after retired players like paintings sell after the artist dies.

Lol.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Or the "Ivan Lendl Trophy".
OK, he actually never won it, but he made his statement by skipping Roland Garros to focus on Wimbledon.
("Who cares about the French Slam crap, I want the English silver!")

The Queen should have knighted him.

She can only knight Brits! :cool:
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I think:

The AO Cup should be renamed: The Emerson Cup (Roy Emerson was the first to win it 6 times).

The RG Cup should be renamed: Le Coupe Nadal.

The Wimbledon Cup should be renamed: The Renshaw Cup ( Willie Renshaw was the first one to win it 7 times)

The USO Cup should be renamed: The Sears Cup (Richard Sears was the first one to win it 7 times).

So that settles it! :)
 
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She can only knight Brits! :cool:
As far as I know she can knight overseas individuals, only they will not be styled as "Sir/Lady" (e.g. Norman Schwartzkopf, Bob Geldof).

That is a fortune, in the end, since "Sir Ivan Lendl" would sound rather ankward...
(not to mention his distressed clothing while coaching Murray at Wimbledon)
 

timnz

Legend
And thereby maintaining a 100% record in the final. Something you cannot say about Roger. Oh well
Sorry that doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that in 2008, 2014 and 2015 that if Federer had lost rounds earlier that would have been a superior performance than him making the final? (Then he would have preserved his 100% final record). You must have been sarcastic - because finishing in the 4th round is not superior to making the final - or is it? You will have to explain that to me.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Sorry that doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that in 2008, 2014 and 2015 that if Federer had lost rounds earlier that would have been a superior performance than him making the final? (Then he would have preserved his 100% final record). You must have been sarcastic - because finishing in the 4th round is not superior to making the final - or is it? You will have to explain that to me.

If you're going to make the final, you have to win, otherwise you're just the first in line to the losing bunch.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
And thereby maintaining a 100% record in the final. Something you cannot say about Roger. Oh well
Fed's still undefeated in Wimbledon semifinals. Something you cannot say about Sampras. Oh well.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Fed's still undefeated in Wimbledon semifinals. Something you cannot say about Sampras. Oh well.

It is better to lose in the semi-final than the final. One game less to worry about, one game less to damage your confidence as a choker :)
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
It is better to lose in the semi-final than the final. One game less to worry about, one game less to damage your confidence as a choker :)
I just gave you an example of how arbitrary these statistics can be.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
I just gave you an example of how arbitrary these statistics can be.

I'm only playing Sabratha. 100% doesn't mean anything of course - is Cilic, the 100% US Open winning finalist better than all those that have won multiple and failed? I find it amusing though how people like to use these statistics to make such claims.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
I think:

The AO Cup should be renamed: The Djokovic Cup.

The RG Cup should be renamed: Le Coupe Nadal.

The Wimbledon Cup should be renamed: The Renshaw Cup ( Willie Renshaw was the first one to win it 7 times)

The USO Cup should be renamed: The Sears Cup (Richard Sears was the first one to win it 7 times).

So that settles it! :)

Using this logic, the AO Cup should be renamed the Emerson Cup, as he was the first to win it six times.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Since Sampras won 5 of his 7 Wimbledon finals without getting broken, does anyone know what the next best is in terms of Wimbledon finals won without being broken.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Sampras made the final 7 times for 7 wins. Never lost the final,

Let's look at the times they did NOT win the final...

Code:
|-----------+-----------+--------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
|  tdate    | event     | winner       | age | loser   | age | score                     | round  |
|-----------+-----------+--------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
|  19890626 | Wimbledon | Woodbridge   | 18  | Sampras | 17  | 7-5 7-6 5-7 6-3           | R128   |
|  19900625 | Wimbledon | Van Rensburg | 27  | Sampras | 18  | 7-6 7-5 7-6               | R128   |
|  19910624 | Wimbledon | Rostagno     | 25  | Sampras | 19  | 6-4 3-6 7-6(3) 6-4        | R64    |
|  19920622 | Wimbledon | Ivanisevic   | 20  | Sampras | 20  | 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-4 6-2     | SF     |
|  19960624 | Wimbledon | Krajicek     | 24  | Sampras | 24  | 7-5 7-6(3) 6-4            | QF     |
|  20010625 | Wimbledon | Federer      | 19  | Sampras | 29  | 7-6(7) 5-7 6-4 6-7(2) 7-5 | R16    |
|  20020624 | Wimbledon | Bastl        | 27  | Sampras | 30  | 6-3 6-2 4-6 3-6 6-4       | R64    |
|-----------+-----------+--------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
Results: 7
One SF and one QF. By the time he was 29/30 he was getting out much earlier.
Code:
|-----------+-----------+------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
|  tdate    | event     | winner     | age | loser   | age | score                     | round  |
|-----------+-----------+------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
|  19990621 | Wimbledon | Novak      | 24  | Federer | 17  | 6-3 3-6 4-6 6-3 6-4       | R128   |
|  20000626 | Wimbledon | Kafelnikov | 26  | Federer | 18  | 7-5 7-5 7-6(6)            | R128   |
|  20010625 | Wimbledon | Henman     | 26  | Federer | 19  | 7-5 7-6(6) 2-6 7-6(6)     | QF     |
|  20020624 | Wimbledon | Ancic      | 18  | Federer | 20  | 6-3 7-6(2) 6-3            | R128   |
|  20080623 | Wimbledon | Nadal      | 22  | Federer | 26  | 6-4 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(8) 9-7 | F      |
|  20100621 | Wimbledon | Berdych    | 24  | Federer | 28  | 6-4 3-6 6-1 6-4           | QF     |
|  20110620 | Wimbledon | Tsonga     | 26  | Federer | 29  | 3-6 6-7(3) 6-4 6-4 6-4    | QF     |
|  20130624 | Wimbledon | Stakhovsky | 27  | Federer | 31  | 6-7(5) 7-6(5) 7-5 7-6(5)  | R64    |
|  20140623 | Wimbledon | Djokovic   | 27  | Federer | 32  | 6-7(7) 6-4 7-6(4) 5-7 6-4 | F      |
|  20150629 | Wimbledon | Djokovic   | 28  | Federer | 33  | 7-6(1) 6-7(10) 6-4 6-3    | F      |
|-----------+-----------+------------+-----+---------+-----+---------------------------+--------|
Results: 10
Three finals and a couple of QF's. Even in his 30's reaching finals.

I can scarcely see how the performance of Federer is worse, unless you hide most of the data !
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
He had to compete against strong grass heavyweights in Pioline and Washington. I'm sure Federer would be shaking in his boots if he was in Sampras' situation.

Washington played the 96 final against Krajicek, who beat Sampras. Here's a run through of Sampras's so called weak competition. Opponent in each final:

93: Courier, 94: Ivanisevic, 95: Becker, 97: Pioline, 98: Ivanisevic, 99: Agassi, 00: Rafter

I think Pioline in 97 compares favourably with Scud in 2003, except that Fed was still a bit tentative and finding his range then whereas Sampras in 97 was unstoppable at Wimbledon. 95 compares with 2015 for Djokovic. Fed hasn't really faced an ageing grass great to win a Wimbledon final so it's hard to find something comparable. Ivanisevic was just as tough and probably a bit tougher than Roddick for Fed. Agassi and Rafter are great grass players. Overall, there's nothing to suggest Sampras lucked out in Wimbledon, of all places. He wasn't the king for nothing. Didn't have an opponent of 2007 Nadal level but on an overall basis it isn't significantly easier, if that, than Fed. Fed's toughest finals have been in the years he lost...2008, 2014, 2015. So it doesn't prove much either way. Yes, Fed faced tougher competition in these finals than Sampras ever did but he didn't win either of them. Again, props for 2007 but that's just one final and it's not better than beating Courier/Agassi/Rafter put together. I say there's nothing much to choose between the two overall in terms of quality of competition at Wimbledon. Let's look at another player who won big in Wimbledon in the Open Era: Borg. Beat Nastase, Connors (twice), Tanner and McEnroe. THAT's tough; without Borg, Connors would be sitting on four Wimbledons so he kind cut him down to the level of an Edberg (as far as Wimbledon greats go) rather than above Mac. Of course Borg got disheartened after 1981 and ran away, which is a pity. But Borg's ability to be machine like in that era with those tiny racquets is quite incredible.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Washington played the 96 final against Krajicek, who beat Sampras. Here's a run through of Sampras's so called weak competition. Opponent in each final:

93: Courier, 94: Ivanisevic, 95: Becker, 97: Pioline, 98: Ivanisevic, 99: Agassi, 00: Rafter

I think Pioline in 97 compares favourably with Scud in 2003, except that Fed was still a bit tentative and finding his range then whereas Sampras in 97 was unstoppable at Wimbledon. 95 compares with 2015 for Djokovic. Fed hasn't really faced an ageing grass great to win a Wimbledon final so it's hard to find something comparable. Ivanisevic was just as tough and probably a bit tougher than Roddick for Fed. Agassi and Rafter are great grass players. Overall, there's nothing to suggest Sampras lucked out in Wimbledon, of all places. He wasn't the king for nothing. Didn't have an opponent of 2007 Nadal level but on an overall basis it isn't significantly easier, if that, than Fed. Fed's toughest finals have been in the years he lost...2008, 2014, 2015. So it doesn't prove much either way. Yes, Fed faced tougher competition in these finals than Sampras ever did but he didn't win either of them. Again, props for 2007 but that's just one final and it's not better than beating Courier/Agassi/Rafter put together. I say there's nothing much to choose between the two overall in terms of quality of competition at Wimbledon. Let's look at another player who won big in Wimbledon in the Open Era: Borg. Beat Nastase, Connors (twice), Tanner and McEnroe. THAT's tough; without Borg, Connors would be sitting on four Wimbledons so he kind cut him down to the level of an Edberg (as far as Wimbledon greats go) rather than above Mac. Of course Borg got disheartened after 1981 and ran away, which is a pity. But Borg's ability to be machine like in that era with those tiny racquets is quite incredible.
Roddick 2009?
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Roddick 2009 vis a vis Ivanisevic 98. Both tough finals, Roddick the tougher match but not by much seeing as both went to five. There is a lack of a third Ivanisevic final to make the parallel perfect but maybe we can sub the Courier match in its place.

As for your point, here I am inferring tough from quality of competition. Roddick brought a lot of fight to that 2009 final, needless to say, as did Ivanisevic in 98, but neither are all time greats. In terms of ATG quality opponent, it's only Nadal 2007. If Murray wins a few more slams, then maybe we can add 2012 but that would still be retro. Circa 2012 W, he hadn't yet won any slams.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Roddick 2009 vis a vis Ivanisevic 98. Both tough finals, Roddick the tougher match but not by much seeing as both went to five. There is a lack of a third Ivanisevic final to make the parallel perfect but maybe we can sub the Courier match in its place.

As for your point, here I am inferring tough from quality of competition. Roddick brought a lot of fight to that 2009 final, needless to say, as did Ivanisevic in 98, but neither are all time greats. In terms of ATG quality opponent, it's only Nadal 2007. If Murray wins a few more slams, then maybe we can add 2012 but that would still be retro. Circa 2012 W, he hadn't yet won any slams.
Sampras did not really have a tough final vs an all time great either.

And I disagree about 2009 and 1998 being equally tough just because they both went 5 sets. The 2009 final went 16-14 in the decider as opposed to the 1998 final. That's like saying Federer's match against Falla in 2010 was as tough as the Isner-Mahut match because both went to 5 sets despite the Isner-Mahut match going 70-68 in the decider.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I didn't say they are equally tough, though. So pl read carefully. I said Roddick was tougher but not by much. Ivanisevic in 98 was also a tougher opponent. More 'unpredictable'. If Fed hadn't struggled to read Rod's serve all evening that day, it probably wouldn't have gone the distance. It was probably his only 'ugly win' in a Wimbledon final. He didn't play great but hung on to win. Sure, Sampras didn't have a tough final against an ATG though he did play two of them - Agassi/Becker - and beat them both convincingly. I think that gets marks over Fed as against which Fed beat a Tier 1 great - Nadal - the final. Which is why I said there isn't much to choose between Sampras and Fed's competition in Wimbledon finals, unless we consider the ones Fed lost. I know it sounds as if I argued for Sampras having the tougher competition but that's only because I was representing to Sabratha writing off his competition as just Pioline and Washington.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I didn't say they are equally tough, though. So pl read carefully. I said Roddick was tougher but not by much. Ivanisevic in 98 was also a tougher opponent. More 'unpredictable'. If Fed hadn't struggled to read Rod's serve all evening that day, it probably wouldn't have gone the distance. It was probably his only 'ugly win' in a Wimbledon final. He didn't play great but hung on to win. Sure, Sampras didn't have a tough final against an ATG though he did play two of them - Agassi/Becker - and beat them both convincingly. I think that gets marks over Fed as against which Fed beat a Tier 1 great - Nadal - the final. Which is why I said there isn't much to choose between Sampras and Fed's competition in Wimbledon finals, unless we consider the ones Fed lost. I know it sounds as if I argued for Sampras having the tougher competition but that's only because I was representing to Sabratha writing off his competition as just Pioline and Washington.

Becker hit 15 DF's in that 1995 final. Roddick of 04 and 09 was clearly better.

There's more to a draw than a final anyway. I think the competition is comparable overall.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Wasn't comparing Becker anyway. There is no comparable there. Fed has never beaten a past champion of Wimbledon in a final. On that note, all told, Sampras was more clutch. Fed holds off his opponents until they start to believe they can beat him (provided they have the game and it's not delusional). Once they have the self belief, the tables seem to turn rather quickly. It is what it is, maybe it would have been different if he had not been crowned king in a transitional era. Sampras was Djoko-like in that he struggled for a while after his breakthrough and when he finally got it together, he was unstoppable. And by and by as the years rolled, his competitors faded, paving the way for continued domination even as he too was on the wane.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
As far as I know she can knight overseas individuals, only they will not be styled as "Sir/Lady" (e.g. Norman Schwartzkopf, Bob Geldof).

That is a fortune, in the end, since "Sir Ivan Lendl" would sound rather ankward...
(not to mention his distressed clothing while coaching Murray at Wimbledon)

Well, I suspect "Sir Ivan" should have actually won it to be considered for an overseas knighthood but "Sir Roger" and 'Sir Pete" admittedly do have a more authentic ring!;)
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Wasn't comparing Becker anyway. There is no comparable there. Fed has never beaten a past champion of Wimbledon in a final. On that note, all told, Sampras was more clutch. Fed holds off his opponents until they start to believe they can beat him (provided they have the game and it's not delusional). Once they have the self belief, the tables seem to turn rather quickly. It is what it is, maybe it would have been different if he had not been crowned king in a transitional era. Sampras was Djoko-like in that he struggled for a while after his breakthrough and when he finally got it together, he was unstoppable. And by and by as the years rolled, his competitors faded, paving the way for continued domination even as he too was on the wane.

You've descended into nonsense now unfortunately :D

Did Sampras have a rival like Nadal or Djokovic? Agassi was a 3 time winner until 99 and didn't meet Sampras for years in a major, hell he spent as much time outside the top 10 as he did at #2. He never had a younger ATG chasing him and improving. The generation after him was Henman and Moya. Between Sampras and Federer there was only Ivanisevic and Hewitt at Wimbledon. However Roger did knock out defending champion Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001 and beat Hewitt twice at Wimbledon in 04 and 05.

Mentioning a transitional era is rich as well, Federer had a bunch of younger slam winners in his generation. Players who had been beating the older generations for years. Federer simply rose above them and set up his own monopoly.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I didn't say they are equally tough, though. So pl read carefully. I said Roddick was tougher but not by much. Ivanisevic in 98 was also a tougher opponent. More 'unpredictable'. If Fed hadn't struggled to read Rod's serve all evening that day, it probably wouldn't have gone the distance. It was probably his only 'ugly win' in a Wimbledon final. He didn't play great but hung on to win. Sure, Sampras didn't have a tough final against an ATG though he did play two of them - Agassi/Becker - and beat them both convincingly. I think that gets marks over Fed as against which Fed beat a Tier 1 great - Nadal - the final. Which is why I said there isn't much to choose between Sampras and Fed's competition in Wimbledon finals, unless we consider the ones Fed lost. I know it sounds as if I argued for Sampras having the tougher competition but that's only because I was representing to Sabratha writing off his competition as just Pioline and Washington.
Djokovic? I know it was not a final, but he did beat Djokovic on his way to winning Wimb 2012 with Nole being the defending champion at that time.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
You've descended into nonsense now unfortunately :D

Did Sampras have a rival like Nadal or Djokovic? Agassi was a 3 time winner until 99 and didn't meet Sampras for years in a major, hell he spent as much time outside the top 10 as he did at #2. He never had a younger ATG chasing him and improving. The generation after him was Henman and Moya. Between Sampras and Federer there was only Ivanisevic and Hewitt at Wimbledon. However Roger did knock out defending champion Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001 and beat Hewitt twice at Wimbledon in 04 and 05.

But Sampras went through Lendl and Mac for his first USO final. THAT's tough. Again, Becker at Wimbledon in 93. Sampras had a tougher initiation, which is forgotten today because people have a way of focusing on HIS age contemporaries and not of those past champions in their mid-late twenties. Maybe they would have won a few more without him becoming a winning machine? Lendl was probably if not definitely past it but Edberg was the 92 USO champion. Becker was still young in 93, only 26. Good enough to win AO 3 years later. This initiation imo toughed up Sampras when he preyed on the wasteland that was 97-99. Yeah, Fed beat Sampras in W in 2001 so it's not his fault that he didn't get that kind of opposition in subsequent years. But does it have something to do with how his rivalries with Nadal and Djokovic have panned out? Quite possibly. Yes, Sampras didn't have opponents like them but Fed has a losing H2H against them anyway. Hasn't beaten Nole in a slam final in a long time and hasn't beaten Nadal in a slam MATCH in a long time. Yes, he's old now but he wasn't old circa AO 2009. We have to be honest here and acknowledge that Fed doesn't enjoy the tennis equivalent of bloody boxing bouts too much. He wants to lord it over his opponents and gets grumpy when they don't roll over.

Mentioning a transitional era is rich as well, Federer had a bunch of younger slam winners in his generation. Players who had been beating the older generations for years. Federer simply rose above them and set up his own monopoly.

But that seems at least to my point of view to be a bit simpler than overcoming an experienced multiple slam winner still not too far from his prime. Nadal has done that, Djoko has done that. It will be a mark on Fed's resume. Not his fault and he forced Nadal and Djokovic to elevate to his level to beat him. But the lack of comeback wins over the years suggests a pattern. Against Nole, he has the old age asterisk but against Nadal, nada, nothing. So, for example, mike danny has just pointed out the 2012 W win over Nole. But Nole hadn't beaten Fed at Wimbledon yet. Fed takes the 2014 final to the fifth. Nole looks kind of tired in the fifth. Fed has chances but doesn't convert and eventually loses. If Fed had won the 2014 final, I say he plays much better in their 2015 slam final encounters too. Once he takes a knock in a big match, it seems to dent his confidence.

P.S: Just remembered one more thing. Fed lost to Henman the very next round after beating Sampras. He had opportunities to win almost all the sets he lost IIRC. Had he won that match, who knows what kind of script would have played out. Yes, he was young and inexperienced then but only as young and inexperienced as Sampras himself was at 1990 USO.
 
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Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic? I know it was not a final, but he did beat Djokovic on his way to winning Wimb 2012 with Nole being the defending champion at that time.

But Sampras has beaten Becker outside of slam finals too. Also Lendl (albeit not at Wimbledon which he never won anyway). It is flawed to compare only finals but without focusing on only one parameter, it also gets too chaotic to even make an observation.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
But Sampras went through Lendl and Mac for his first USO final. THAT's tough. Again, Becker at Wimbledon in 93. Sampras had a tougher initiation, which is forgotten today because people have a way of focusing on HIS age contemporaries and not of those past champions in their mid-late twenties. Maybe they would have won a few more without him becoming a winning machine? Lendl was probably if not definitely past it but Edberg was the 92 USO champion. Becker was still young in 93, only 26. Good enough to win AO 3 years later. This initiation imo toughed up Sampras when he prayed on the wasteland that was 97-99. Yeah, Fed beat Sampras in W in 2001 so it's not his fault that he didn't get that kind of opposition in subsequent years. But does it have something to do with how his rivalries with Nadal and Djokovic have panned out? Quite possibly. Yes, Sampras didn't have opponents like them but Fed has a losing H2H against them anyway. Hasn't beaten Nole in a slam final in a long time and hasn't beaten Nadal in a slam MATCH in a long time. Yes, he's old now but he wasn't old circa AO 2009. We have to be honest here and acknowledge that Fed doesn't enjoy the tennis equivalent of bloody boxing bouts too much. He wants to lord it over his opponents and gets grumpy when they don't roll over.

His run to the USO in 1990 was incredible I agree. Though Mac especially was far from his best. Again it's a weakness of Sampras' later era that Federer didn't have those greats standing in his way during the early part of his reign. He did at least best Agassi multiple times in slams and big finals. As far as beating Becker in 1993, Boris ended the year ranked #11. It's a case of big names with little substance, Becker was dropping sets all over the place on the way to the SF. In the match itself Becker didn't perform well, he was tired and served poorly for his standards.

Its usual for older ATG's to trail younger ones. Not to mention Federer has played Djokovic more times in his 30's than before them. The lead Novak has is only slender anyway. Federer has actually dealt with Djokovic rather well on the whole. He beat Djokovic twice in majors in 11-12. Federer has his weaknesses but his overall competition has been tougher than Sampras' who was never tested by younger foes.

But that seems at least to my point of view to be a bit simpler than overcoming an experienced multiple slam winner still not too far from his prime. Nadal has done that, Djoko has done that. It will be a mark on Fed's resume. Not his fault and he forced Nadal and Djokovic to elevate to his level to beat him. But the lack of comeback wins over the years suggests a pattern. Against Nole, he has the old age asterisk but against Nadal, nada, nothing. So, for example, mike danny has just pointed out the 2012 W win over Nole. But Nole hadn't beaten Fed at Wimbledon yet. Fed takes the 2014 final to the fifth. Nole looks kind of tired in the fifth. Fed has chances but doesn't convert and eventually loses. If Fed had won the 2014 final, I say he plays much better in their 2015 slam final encounters too. Once he takes a knock in a big match, it seems to dent his confidence.

Federer has beaten Nadal in 2007, Djokovic in 2012 both times they were multiple slam winners (3 and 5 slams each). Federer's record against Nadal is a mark, not against Djokovic. And again Nadal is a Sampras calibre player with a match up edge and is younger to boot.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I know Becker wasn't playing too well in 1993, my dad used to joke about it at the time in the manner of a resigned-Becker fan. Seemed to have a thing about wearing a cap when he wasn't playing well during that phase? ;) Just that the younger player still needs to believe he can beat the older guy, ignoring his reputation. In 93, Sampras had been slamless for a while with not too stellar a Wimbledon record so props for that. I do like the 2007 Nadal win but in that instance too Fed was still frontrunning, still believed he was king of Wimbledon. After the 2008 loss, his attitude to Nadal matches changed. Against Nole, his arrogant lack of respect for him up to 2012 helped him in a way because he seemed to believe he was still the better player. Once he started respecting him too much, it seems he has conceded the edge to Nole. Yes, there is the age disadvantage but 2014 W was winnable from the position he got into in the fifth. Nole wasn't playing great in large patches of 2015 USO either, Fed just let him off the hook. Yes, overall there's no doubt Fed has had tougher competition but more so in his later career and the early part of his prime didn't help him in handling the onslaught of tougher competition. Sampras had it tough in the beginning and much easier in the latter half.
 
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