Non-hardcourt slams total

S

Sirius Black

Guest
nadalfan2013 said:
Tsonga? You mean the guy who beat Federer at Wimbledon in 2011 and another time at the French Open? :rolleyes: And the guy who also beat Djokovic at the 2010 Australian Open? :rolleyes: And Murray? He's beaten Djokovic and Federer in slams and also Olympics. :rolleyes: Youzny, you're now going all the way back to 2006 as if Rafa was already a force on all surfaces then? :rolleyes: And Hewitt, now we need a time machine to go back to 2004/5? Rafa at that time was a clay specialist, but then he eventually worked hard, improved and a few years later ruled all surfaces including vs Federer. :rolleyes: Get a grip.
Click to expand...


Whoa whoa whoa. Whoa. Slow down there, Doc.

We need a time machine to go back to 2005, but not one to go back to 2006, 2010, and 2011?

Quick, get in the Delorean!
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
Druss said:
I won't argue with Nos 1&2, even Gonzales, but I don't get 3&5....Explain why them two ahead of Nadal? I don't care that you don't like Nadal, I don't either, but let's be objective here.
Click to expand...

Don't you understand? Extra weeks at no.1 & WTF for Sampras is more important than 17 additional masters 1000 and winning all 4 slams and being an all-surface champion. :rolleyes: And extra weeks at no.1 & WTF for Nole is more important than 2 additional slams & Olympics Gold :rolleyes: See how blind they are? Lol
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Nadal is definitely top 5 and most definitely above Djokovic.

Most of Djokovic's success came once Fedal declined. That's why most of his slam finals are vs his personal pigeon Murray, Wawrinka, Washed up Nadal, Grandad Federer etc.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
KINGROGER said:
Nadal is definitely top 5 and most definitely above Djokovic.

Most of Djokovic's success came once Fedal declined. That's why most of his slam finals are vs his personal pigeon Murray, Wawrinka, Washed up Nadal, Grandad Federer etc.
Click to expand...

Djokovic has been a dominant player for longer than Nadal, won the NCYGS, has won 5 YECs vs Nadal's 0, holds the record of Masters series titles, and has a winning H2H vs Nadal. This is enough to offset the 2 slams that Nadal has over him.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
nadalfan2013 said:
Chadillac said:
The records speak for themself, nadal is a t2, fed is a t1.
Click to expand...
You mean, Rafa is a strong era GOAT and managed to beat peak Federer and peak Djoko for most of his slam wins, while Fed is a weak era GOAT managing to beat mostly the Roddicks, Hewitts, Gonazales, etc. of tennis and a few times baby Djoko, baby Rafa and grandpa Agassi.
Click to expand...

Base on achievement, not only Nadal is not a goat but he's arguably 1 tier below Federer. You can't argue against fact.

17 slams > 14
302 weeks #1 >141
5 YE#1 > 3
6 WTF > 0
88 titles > 69
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
Phoenix1983 said:
Djokovic has been a dominant player for longer than Nadal, won the NCYGS, has won 5 YECs vs Nadal's 0, holds the record of Masters series titles, and has a winning H2H vs Nadal. This is enough to offset the 2 slams that Nadal has over him.
Click to expand...

You'll find some of them here:

14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
nadalfan2013 said:
You'll find some of them here:

14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles >
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Click to expand...

Most of the things you've mentioned pale in significance to what Djokovic has over Nadal.

Wilander won at least 2 slams on each surface, for heaven's sake! Doesn't make him a GOAT contender.

No sir, not at all...
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
nadalfan2013 said:
You'll find some of them here:

14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
nadalfan2013 said:
You'll find some of them here:

14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Click to expand...

I've highlighted the meaningless 'stats' in bold.

I've also underlined 'minor' stats too, seeing as H2H is biased and Davis Cup / Olympics don't carry much prestige in tennis accomplishment terms, and are more of a patriotic thing.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
KINGROGER said:
Sorry no this is false. Roger also faced Djokovic at 08/09 USO. He faced Murray at 2010 AO. He faced a better version of Del Potro at 2009 USO.

Safin at 05 AO is better than any of them. Hewitt, Roddick, old Agassi are the same level at least to Murray, Wawrinka and Ferrer. Gonzalez at AO07 was class. It's just Federer made them look worse because he's the best.

Fed maybe had a easy draw once at 06 AO. But Bagdhatis was playing well but Fed being the GOAT made him look ordinary.

Disagree with Rafa not being in his HC peak. If he's able to beat peak Federer on slow HC he has no excuses for crashing out to mugs such as washed up Hewitt, Murray, Youzny LMAO or tsonga. Rafa was a beast from a very early age you forget, just not as good as Roger overall. H2H as stated before is very biased towards clay and slow courts, which enhance the match up advantage for Rafa.

Heck, Grandad Fed would straight set the mugs Rafa lost to as a 19-22 year old on HCs.
Click to expand...

So you say that Rafa was on his prime HC level in 2005 (although he won 2 HC Masters, but the field wasn't that strong and he was amazing, dissapointing USO). You are joking right. Makes you no better than those Nadalfan.... Accounts, bending information so it comes to good use.

I said that how can you say that 2004 Fed was not prime clay level (which is right) but Rafa pre 08/09 can be criticized for not being in his HC prime. I was just calling out your biased double standard.

How the **** did Federer face a better Del Potro at the US, it was the same Del Potro. If anything the SF performance of Del Potro is considered his best ever.
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
nadalfan2008 said:
Why should we take away player's best Grand Slam? It's meaningless. Anyway, Federer has only 2 Slams on slow surfaces (clay and AO since 2008).
Click to expand...

Why should we take away hard court slams? To skew the data in our favor
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Rafa the King said:
The whole point of natural surface is ridiculous. Clay and grass are the 'oldest' surfaces of our sport, but no point in adding more value to them because of it.
Click to expand...

So, you wanted to specifically create a thread about the GOAT on clay, but somehow got confused and wrote something else?

And grass would be the oldest surface from the more modern iterations, so you will have to say good-bye to clay , if you are going to go that route.

:cool:
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Rafa the King said:
So you say that Rafa was on his prime HC level in 2005 (although he won 2 HC Masters, but the field wasn't that strong and he was amazing, dissapointing USO). You are joking right. Makes you no better than those Nadalfan.... Accounts, bending information so it comes to good use.

I said that how can you say that 2004 Fed was not prime clay level (which is right) but Rafa pre 08/09 can be criticized for not being in his HC prime. I was just calling out your biased double standard.

How the **** did Federer face a better Del Potro at the US, it was the same Del Potro. If anything the SF performance of Del Potro is considered his best ever.
Click to expand...

If Rafa pre 08 is beating Peak Federer at HC masters then I don't accept the 'baby' Rafa excuse for losing to Youzny, Tsonga, Blake, Murray, Ferrer, Hewitt, Gonzalez etc lmao the kind of opponents Federer was swatting away like flies. Fact is Rafa isn't and wasn't as good as Fed on hard courts, or grass. Only one time did he reach that top level - 09 AO.

My mistake about Del Potro. I meant yeah the 09 version was the strongest ever over any other time.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
Djokovic has been a dominant player for longer than Nadal, won the NCYGS, has won 5 YECs vs Nadal's 0, holds the record of Masters series titles, and has a winning H2H vs Nadal. This is enough to offset the 2 slams that Nadal has over him.
Click to expand...
True Novak is the superior hard court player (apart from 09 AO Nadal which is highest level ever on plexicushion imo)

Nadal is better on clay and grass easily. He pushed peak Fed to 5 sets, and overcame prime Fed in 5 at 08. I don't rate Djokovic's 14/15 titles very highly to be honest. He beat a Grandad in the Final. Peak Nadal would've beaten Gramperer in straight sets.

Nadal is clearly the superior player. Djokovic has captalised very well on Fedal declining, which is when most of his slams came.
 
Last edited:
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
KINGROGER said:
If Rafa pre 08 is beating Peak Federer at HC masters then I don't accept the 'baby' Rafa excuse for losing to Youzny, Tsonga, Blake, Murray, Ferrer, Hewitt, Gonzalez etc lmao the kind of opponents Federer was swatting away like flies. Fact is Rafa isn't and wasn't as good as Fed on hard courts, or grass. Only one time did he reach that top level - 09 AO.

My mistake about Del Potro. I meant yeah the 09 version was the strongest ever over any other time.
Click to expand...

Rafa pre 2011 had only beaten Roger at a hc masters once and that was in 2004 so please get your facts straight. This makes us go back to my list on which the Murray 10 AO is the only relatively bad loss.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
Tennis_Hands said:
So, you wanted to specifically create a thread about the GOAT on clay, but somehow got confused and wrote something else?

And grass would be the oldest surface from the more modern iterations, so you will have to say good-bye to clay , if you are going to go that route.

:cool:
Click to expand...

I just agreed with what the others were saying in that post, I didn't create this thread
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Rafa the King said:
Rafa pre 2011 had only beaten Roger at a hc masters once and that was in 2004 so please get your facts straight. This makes us go back to my list on which the Murray 10 AO is the only relatively bad loss.
Click to expand...

At Masters might mean in one Masters and then there is Dubai.

Really, unless you are using constantly the injury excuse, Nadal has underperformed on HC MASSIVELY.

That is not to say that he would ever have been better than Federer on HC.

It is to say that he wasn't up to his potential to reach Federer in the first place.

Other than that, Nadal had many bad losses on HC with the US Open 2008 being especially bad.

:cool:
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Rafa the King said:
So you say that Rafa was on his prime HC level in 2005 (although he won 2 HC Masters, but the field wasn't that strong and he was amazing, dissapointing USO). You are joking right. Makes you no better than those Nadalfan.... Accounts, bending information so it comes to good use.
Click to expand...

Not sure you're qualified to talk about the strength of the field ;)
 
hipolymer

hipolymer

Hall of Fame
Hardcourt is the most neutral of the three surfaces, and the most players excel at it so that also makes it most competitive and the toughest to dominate.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Rafa the King said:
Rafa pre 2011 had only beaten Roger at a hc masters once and that was in 2004 so please get your facts straight. This makes us go back to my list on which the Murray 10 AO is the only relatively bad loss.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of Dubai too, should've just said hard court full stop.

Losing to Gonzalez, Murray 08, Youzny, Tsonga (LOL) are all really bad losses. These type of players even Grandad Federer would easily beat.
 
cockneyDjoker

cockneyDjoker

Hall of Fame
I will never consider Nadal a GOAT contender because he only dominated on 1 surface. His resume off clay is almost comparable to Murray's career. Infact Murray and possibly even Wawrinka will both end up with a better non-clay career than Nadal. :p:p:p:D:D:D

Djokovic however is dominant on EVERY surface and will end up winning the double career slam. Heck I would even put money on his winning the treble career slam. He's a great champion on EVERY surface, not just clay :cool::cool::cool::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lets face facts shall we. Nadal has lost his last 2 matches against Dimitrov and Troicki. He'll be out of the top 10 in about 6 months time, he's completely DONE. It wouldn't even surprise me if he retires after next years French open. :(:(:(:(

Djokovic however has another 2-3 multi-slam winning years ahead of him :):):):):)

DreddyTennis45 said:
Come on, @cockneyDjoker, do your thang
Click to expand...

It's nice to know you've been missing the c**k that much that you feel the need to mention him :p:p:p

I've been resting just like Nole. But now I'm back and ready to dominate once again, just like Novak will :):):)

Someone needs to educate these new Nadal fans on here about tennis and the c**k is the perfect man for the job :D:D:D
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
cockneyDjoker said:
I will never consider Nadal a GOAT contender because he only dominated on 1 surface. His resume off clay is almost comparable to Murray's career. Infact Murray and possibly even Wawrinka will both end up with a better non-clay career than Nadal. :p:p:p:D:D:D

Djokovic however is dominant on EVERY surface and will end up winning the double career slam. Heck I would even put money on his winning the treble career slam. He's a great champion on EVERY surface, not just clay :cool::cool::cool::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lets face facts shall we. Nadal has lost his last 2 matches against Dimitrov and Troicki. He'll be out of the top 10 in about 6 months time, he's completely DONE. It wouldn't even surprise me if he retires after next years French open. :(:(:(:(

Djokovic however has another 2-3 multi-slam winning years ahead of him :):):):):)



It's nice to know you've been missing the c**k that much that you feel the need to mention him :p:p:p

I've been resting just like Nole. But now I'm back and ready to dominate once again, just like Novak will :):):)

Someone needs to educate these new Nadal fans on here about tennis and the c**k is the perfect man for the job :D:D:D
Click to expand...

Lol

Djokovic has 1 clay slam
Federer has 1 clay slam

Nadal has 2 grass slams
Nadal has 3 hardcourt slams

The weak links are Fed and Nole. Go have a seat.
 
cockneyDjoker

cockneyDjoker

Hall of Fame
nadalfan2013 said:
Lol

Djokovic has 1 clay slam
Federer has 1 clay slam

Nadal has 2 grass slams
Nadal has 3 hardcourt slams

The weak links are Fed and Nole. Go have a seat.
Click to expand...
Djokovic is greater than Nadal on 2/3 surfaces and has a better record at 3/4 slams :D:D:D:D

Murray will end up with a better non-clay career than Nadal which will just expose him as a 1 surface great even more :cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
cockneyDjoker

cockneyDjoker

Hall of Fame
nadalfan2013 said:
14 > 12
Gold > Bronze
9 > 4

Have sweet dreams tonight!
Click to expand...
5>>>>>>>>0 :):):)
26>>>>>>>>>23 :D:D:D

Anyway Thank you for your concern. :):) I sleep very well tonight in the knowledge that Nole still has 2-3 multi-slam winning years ahead of him.

The c**k wishes you sweet dreams tonight also, though I have a feeling that the last 2 back-to-back defeats to Dimitrov and Troicki will be giving you nightmares. :p:p:p
 
Druss

Druss

Hall of Fame
These nadalfans20__ are hilarious. According to them, a weak era is when Nadal wasn't winning MORE than one slam a year. So if it's not 2008, '10 or '13, it must be part of the weak era lol. TTW is good value (for a laugh:))


Edit: First part of '09 is also not part of the weak era!
 
6august

6august

Hall of Fame
nadalfan2013 said:
Nadal has over 14.7 million fans on Facebook more than any other tennis player and some people here think that if a few of his fans praise him then they must be the same person. Absolutely laughable and it proves how Rafa haters have no logic.
Click to expand...

nadalfan2013 said:
You'll find some of them here:

14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Click to expand...

You'll also find some of them here:

Djoker ;) Bull :confused:
4 Slams in a row None
Countless WTF None
3x MS1000 2x MS1000
20x weeks at No.1 10x weeks at No. 1
Countless Year End No. 1 A Couple of Year End No. 1
Greater @ Hard :eek:
Greater @ Grass :(
Greater @ Indoor :oops:
AO GOAT :confused:
1-0 vs Dustin Brown 0-2 vs Dustin Brown
3-0 vs Steve Darcis 1-1 vs Steve Darcis
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
7-0 peak-to-peak 0-7 peak-to-peak
....
 
nadalfan2016

nadalfan2016

New User
cockneyDjoker said:
Djokovic is greater than Nadal on 2/3 surfaces and has a better record at 3/4 slams :D:D:D:D

Murray will end up with a better non-clay career than Nadal which will just expose him as a 1 surface great even more :cool::cool::cool::cool:
Click to expand...
RAFA is better on his worst surface than Federer/Djokovic on their's
2 on grass compared to 1 each on clay

RAFA is also better on his best surface than Federer/Djokovic on their's
9 on clay compared to 8 on HCs and 7 on grass
 
D

Deleted member 748597

Guest
Djokovic is now better than Nadal. He has NCYGS, more WTFs, more Masters 1000s, more weeks at No1, more year end No1. He can even complete the Career Masters 1000 if he finally wins Cincinnati. I know Nadal has two more Slams than Djokovic, but still Djokovic is ahead in many other achievements.
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Etc.

Oh and Nole is hardcourt-skewed ;)
 
D

Deleted member 748597

Guest
nadalfan2013 said:
14 slams > 12
Olympic Gold > Bronze
4 davis cup > 1
69 titles > 66
10 consecutive years with a slam title
At least 2 slams on each surface
Most titles at any one slam
Clear GOAT on a surface
Won a grandslam on clay, grass and hardcourt in same year
hard sweep, grass sweep, clay sweep
9-2 vs Federer & 9-4 vs Djokovic in slam meetings
Etc.

Oh and Nole is hardcourt-skewed ;)
Click to expand...
Damn. You're too biased. Okay, let me show you an example why Nadal can't be considered GOAT. Let's see the most important records in tennis.
Most Grand Slams - 17 Federer
Most WTFs - 6 Federer
Most Masters 1000s - 30 Djokovic
Most weeks at No1 - 302 Federer
Most year end No1 - 6 Sampras
Most Olympic Singles Gold medals - 2 Murray (I don't even consider Olympics a huge achievement, but I wanted to let you know that even there Nadal doesn't have a record)
Let's also add the fact that Laver has 2 CYGS and Djokovic has 1 NCYGS.
Nadal has a great record with 9 Roland Garros titles, but that simply shows that he's just a Clay Boy.
 
T

Tiki-Taka

Guest
I don't think eliminating any surface makes sense, especially not hard courts today, the ones that dominate the tour. Players won what they won, all of them will prefer a certain surface over the other and their results will show that.
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
Nole Slam said:
Damn. You're too biased. Okay, let me show you an example why Nadal can't be considered GOAT. Let's see the most important records in tennis.
Most Grand Slams - 17 Federer
Most Masters 1000s - 30 Djokovic
Click to expand...

So basically, Federer is "grandslam skewed" and Djokovic is "masters 100 skewed" :rolleyes:

You punish Rafa for having the perfect blend? :rolleyes:

Federer 17 and 24 (high slams, low masters 1000)
Djokovic 12 and 30 (low slams, high masters 1000)
Nadal 14 and 28 (perfect blend of both)

Again, Rafa wins. He is Blendal :) , while they are Skewdokovic :rolleyes: and Skewderer :rolleyes: . Have a seat, you can't compete.

Read my signature again, Rafa is the GOAT.
 
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