Do you take tennis lessons?

pabletion · Mar 6, 2017

I do. I try to once a week, although not possible to every week. Luckily for me, I can get relatively "cheap" lessons in my country ($10 an hour) for tennis lessons just for me. I pay for eight lessons in advance, and I can pick them up whenever, but try to schedule one lesson per week.

My coach started basically as a club ball boy, learned to play and has been working as a tennis hitting partner, progressed as tennis coach assistant and now knows enough to be able to teach, although I dont think he's got more than a basic level diploma (I've encouraged him to keep getting ITF courses and certifications etc...). Its very common in these 3rd world country areas, he knows enough, lets say, to teach someone else. He plays maybe at a 5.0 level, so I love to hit with him and play practice sets. Practice sessions are great, I love drilling and working out with baskets, etc. I come up with new drills or one day I'd want to work on certain areas etc, somedays I'm open to his drill suggestions etc (Im a good student, I like to let him teach too).

I believe its VERY IMPORTANT to get lessons/practice time in order to improve and not get stuck, I found this the hard way, before I sarted with him, it had been years of basically only playing. I quit tennis for two whole years and when I got back it was lessons/practice sessions that brought me back relatively quick, even though, maybe fitness and quickness arent what they used to.

I specially have lessons to thank for getting my 2hbh back. When I re took the game, it was a mess and had no conficende, it only came back after a lot of work and drills and baskets. There are no shortcuts to get better, only hard work and putting up the hours. I HIGHLY recomend anyone who wants to take it to the next level to TAKE LESSONS, at least once a week, I know its much more expensive than this in the US or Europe maybe, but its the only way to work on your weaknesses and make them strong.

So do you take lessons????

LeeD · Mar 6, 2017

No. Lots of tennis coach's have watched my pathetic game, like to talk to me about other player's games, but never directly have asked me to teach them anything.
I'm a surfer. I learn on my own. I learned motocross, road racing, water skiing, snowboarding, skiing, windsurfing, kiteboarding, all without ever taking a lesson from anyone.
How's my game, you ask? Well, I suck basically, but I"m also 68 now, and play with all the former A/Open level player's who turned my age. I"m about even.
Why did I never get better than B, or 4.5? Because the year after I made B, I started racing motocross and kept up with my surfing. There wasn't time to do both and still keep a full time job to support myself, so I quit tennis the year after I became a B player, or 4.5, 3 and a half year's after starting tennis.

SinjinCooper · Mar 6, 2017

No. I give them.

Deleted member 23235 · Mar 6, 2017

give and take.
i take private 1-1 lessons maybe 1-2x/year, and only if they had ATP points or significant creds (so they lessons around me are like 150-250/hr)
i take hit & giggle clinics (ie. ball feeder, and giver-of-attaboys) once a month or once every other month (during winter) when I'm in the mood, can't find a partner, and fiending to play.

recently i joined a new club, so joined some clinics just to make some contacts... but at least this clinic is taught by former touring pro (though, come to think of it, i still don't get any tips)

LeeD · Mar 6, 2017

Interesting.....
Couple local coach's, Shroud (Doug) knows them, had ATP points in the 1,100 and 250 range, and hit with each other in weekly practice.
They might be the worse coach's FOR ME, possible. Whatever the student asks them to show, they seem to veer away and go back to basic basics, like BASIC old school form.
I don't want to hear about turning shoulder's, feet aligned, weight balanced, prep position, I ask SPECIFICALLY about grip and supination for a topspin 1hbh, and they never give a straight simple answer. They won't even allow variance for ball height, making the same lesson for balls knee high and chin high. I don't believe you should hit the same ball from knee and chin heights, so I don't take lessons.

jm1980 · Mar 6, 2017

nytennisaddict said:
i take hit & giggle clinics (ie. ball feeder, and giver-of-attaboys) once a month or once every other month (during winter) when I'm in the mood, can't find a partner, and fiending to play.

Hit and giggle... Hahaha I like this term

user92626 · Mar 6, 2017

I like your post, OP. Shows dedication.

I take lessons the hard way. Pay (better) players to beat me.

Nadalgaenger · Mar 6, 2017

I just finished a lesson.

It ain't cheap ($70/hr) but trying to build a more solid game.

A better question is what to work on in such a short time. The one hour goes by very fast.

Chingoo1255 · Mar 6, 2017

I tried for one lesson a week. Coach gave up after second week when his assistant quit. Can't get him to commit again. Maybe he felt he wasn't charging me enough at 50 an hour.

user92626 · Mar 6, 2017

It's incredible to me that you guys could pay 50, 75usd/hr for lessons. Are the sessions jam packed with instructions? The repetitive actions can be learned in your own time, no?

Deleted member 23235 · Mar 6, 2017

user92626 said:
It's incredible to me that you guys could pay 50, 75usd/hr for lessons. Are the sessions jam packed with instructions? The repetitive actions can be learned in your own time, no?

in ny
50 is the min (on public courts)
in clubs expect 100 min
if you have a reputation/atp points/etc,... expect 200+

Deleted member 23235 · Mar 6, 2017

LeeD said:
Interesting.....
Couple local coach's, Shroud (Doug) knows them, had ATP points in the 1,100 and 250 range, and hit with each other in weekly practice.
They might be the worse coach's FOR ME, possible. Whatever the student asks them to show, they seem to veer away and go back to basic basics, like BASIC old school form.
I don't want to hear about turning shoulder's, feet aligned, weight balanced, prep position, I ask SPECIFICALLY about grip and supination for a topspin 1hbh, and they never give a straight simple answer. They won't even allow variance for ball height, making the same lesson for balls knee high and chin high. I don't believe you should hit the same ball from knee and chin heights, so I don't take lessons.

very unfortunate... sounds unlucky or these guys weren't really into teaching. the guys i took lessons from run junior academies and dedicated their lives to teaching...

lol, maybe they didn't know what "supinate" and "pronate" means? i had to look it up before i came on ttw,... but i could still demonstrate the inward and outward roll of the forearm (where applicable)....

that said, i still don't focus on it because i find if the prep leading up to and including at contact is correct, the supination/pronation happens naturally (ie bodies way of dissipating energy)... not to mention if i started talking about supination/probation... i get wristy strokes (where they attempt to manipulate the racquet head with their forearm)

or maybe they were showing you a different approach to the stroke?

Chingoo1255 · Mar 6, 2017

Good luck finding lower cost coaching here. You can always split costs with others but that's like adding water to your coffee

user92626 · Mar 6, 2017

nytennisaddict said:
in ny
50 is the min (on public courts)
in clubs expect 100 min
if you have a reputation/atp points/etc,... expect 200+

Obviously prices tie to the quality of the coaching but I just cannot imagine what kind of instructions, revelation that you can get in an hour at that cost.

With that said, if a student can become a low powered version of Nadal after a couple thousand dollar spent, I suppose it's very worth the cost.

RogueFLIP · Mar 6, 2017

I usually take lessons in bunches in between my seasons. So after my men's season May-July, Aug-Nov I took a lesson once a week or every other week depending on my schedule.

I've learned to never take lessons during the season bc it just screwed everything up come match time.

I've got pretty specific goals for each lesson and the overall "lesson season"; IE last year was spent mostly on fixing my serve. Changed a lot of things and went through a glorious honeymoon period with my new serve during the beginning of the mixed season Dec/Jan which ended in Feb and now in March I am now in the need of more lessons to figure out where my serve went and to develop a more safe & reliable serve.

So March-April will be again spending as much time as I can trying to fix my biggest liabilities and other issues in time for the May men's season start.

What I've done in the past is to take lessons with the pro from the club and then ask them discreetly how much they'd charge outside the club if I liked their style.
Pro's in my club run $120-130 per lesson, but cheaper when bought in a package.
Paid outside the club $50-60 a lesson.

My current "coach", former D1 player isn't able to do outside lessons so for now I have to pay full price

And she moves in May so I'll have to find another "coach".

All have been valuable in my tennis journey and I thank all of them for trying to help me sniff sniff...LOL.

rockbox · Mar 6, 2017

I take lessons once in a while. It's good to have somebody else looking objectively at your strokes and movement. It also allows me to have a "selfish" hitting session.

kiteboard · Mar 6, 2017

Not one. All self taught.

Dragy · Mar 7, 2017

Don't do. Would be better if did with a good coach, but:
1. I'm cheap to pay 4x for court time: full rent fee and ~same or more for the coach job. What I really need is practice time and polishing, my best consistent tennis exposure was 3,5-4 hours per week and another 1,5-2 hours of serve practice.
2. I don't trust the rec coaches crowd. I'm sure there're some very good ones, but so many don't teach or even don't understand best mechanics for athletic and amitious amateurs. It's same for alpine skiing, for example - even nationally certified instructors follow limited programms and give students lots of habits to be unlearnt and rebuilt further on. Sportish coaches are mostly good, however, for skiing.

movdqa · Mar 7, 2017

You didn't have a category for No. Don't have the time or schedule for it. I may take lessons in the future from a guy that teaches at my club but at a time when my schedule is not as busy as it is right now.

pabletion · Mar 7, 2017

movdqa said:
You didn't have a category for No. Don't have the time or schedule for it. I may take lessons in the future from a guy that teaches at my club but at a time when my schedule is not as busy as it is right now.

That "I dont have time" excuse is invalid here!

Make time, man! You CAN'T sneak an HOUR at least once a week for tennis practice? Well, I dunno what your situation is (maybe college, work, family...), but at least for me, its feasable to scratch at least one hour a week for a good practise session: You get a great workout and after an hour of drilling with a basket, youre DEAD (if you make the effort and get the most out of that one hour).

I try to practice early morning (6 am) or at noon.

movdqa · Mar 7, 2017

pabletion said:
That "I dont have time" excuse is invalid here!

Make time, man! You CAN'T sneak an HOUR at least once a week for tennis practice? Well, I dunno what your situation is (maybe college, work, family...), but at least for me, its feasable to scratch at least one hour a week for a good practise session: You get a great workout and after an hour of drilling with a basket, youre DEAD (if you make the effort and get the most out of that one hour).

I try to practice early morning (6 am) or at noon.

I run five+ miles a day and am trying to work up to six. I'm trying to add more weight-training time to that as well. And tennis.

user92626 · Mar 7, 2017

Recreational tennis coaching is always a peculiar thing to me. The biggest major thing that it has going against it is the question of necessity.

Unless you are very rich, how do you justify paying big bucks for a skill that ...takes you nowhere?

It seems to me that the sweet spot of recreational tennis is between 3.0 and 4.0. Outside of that range there's no utility for the skill. Just my opinion.

movdqa · Mar 7, 2017

user92626 said:
Recreational tennis coaching is always a peculiar thing to me. The biggest major thing that it has going against it is the question of necessity.

Unless you are very rich, how do you justify paying big bucks for a skill that ...takes you nowhere?

It seems to me that the sweet spot of recreational tennis is between 3.0 and 4.0. Outside of that range there's no utility for the skill. Just my opinion.

There's always intellectual curiosity.

Sometimes that stuff leads to practical applications.

pabletion · Mar 7, 2017

user92626 said:
Recreational tennis coaching is always a peculiar thing to me. The biggest major thing that it has going against it is the question of necessity.

Unless you are very rich, how do you justify paying big bucks for a skill that ...takes you nowhere?

It seems to me that the sweet spot of recreational tennis is between 3.0 and 4.0. Outside of that range there's no utility for the skill. Just my opinion.

Good point. Of course I would like to have the resources to be able to train EVERYDAY and see how good I can become. Anyways, why do I think its justifiable for me to spend money on coached tennis practice? It focuses my week, and brings me mental ease. We ALL need a break and a hobby, I could argue the same way on why would you spend money on any tennis period?

I like to train because I like to improve, I love competing and still enter natl. ranking tournaments, and wanna take full advantage of my body while I still consider I can play at a high competitive level. Training like Im doing is a GREAT workout, beats just hitting or even playing, and I can compare because I DO hit/play with others. When I take my lessons, I end up BEAT UP, a full hour is almost enough (almos, NEVER enough), whilst when I hit/play against someone else I can go for two hours or more.

Paying for and taking lessons makes me organize my day and makes me be efficient with my other stuff I've got going. When you pay for something (gym, swimming, whatever) you feel more obliged not to skip, so I go even when I dont really feel like it, and I make the effort.

The most important thing is that I know I improve my game the most with lessons, because you work on specific things (say, when youre hitting, youre gonna look for your preffered stroke, the forehand, for example). If Im struggling with my return of serve I'll ask the coach to work on that, or mid-court balls, for example.

It is a GREAT investment, because your investing in yourself. Healthy mind, healthy body means better worker, so yeah, I do believe "developing those useless skills" is worth it.

Hell! It even makes me work harder so I can have MORE MONEY for tennis!

heninfan99 · Mar 7, 2017

pabletion said:
Healthy mind, healthy body means better worker, so yeah, I do believe "developing those useless skills" is worth it.

That's cool but you can also get these benefits playing for free in the US.

user92626 · Mar 7, 2017

pabletion, I do understand what you are saying.

It sounds like you are getting a lot of value out of your expense which is not considered as costly to you. I do not see those values for myself so I think it comes down to personality traits. Eg I organize my day just fine without coaching, I have many hours of good workout when I play singles or rally.

About improving my game I suppose I'm pragmatic and realistic that I know how high I can go and the uselessness of such skill if I ever reach it. Or maybe I can't think, don't know of a better way, like a youngster planning to get so good that he will be able to make money off of it.

But your mindset on this is very interesting and in a way inspiring to me. Keep it up.

Bender · Mar 7, 2017

user92626 said:
Recreational tennis coaching is always a peculiar thing to me. The biggest major thing that it has going against it is the question of necessity.

Unless you are very rich, how do you justify paying big bucks for a skill that ...takes you nowhere?

It seems to me that the sweet spot of recreational tennis is between 3.0 and 4.0. Outside of that range there's no utility for the skill. Just my opinion.

You can say that about the sport as a whole though. Investing in a sport at all (buying clothes, equipment, court time, transport) is a waste of money unless you want to become pro, and if you're in a position to actually spend money on yourself you're always too late to become pro anyway.

But that isn't a good argument to be making because it's inconsistent with our spending patterns, and we need to invest in things that serve no utility from time to time. Why pick up anything at all if it has no utility? A gym membership is a waste of money considering that I can do bodyweight exercises at home, and unless I want to be a professional runner, why invest in good shoes beyond a pair that doesn't kill my feet? Neither a tub of ice cream nor a bottle of wine have any real nutritional value--in fact they are positively detrimental to our health--so why does anyone waste money eating / drinking those? Why waste money living in a nice house when you can do just fine with a concrete box with running water and protection from the elements? Why drive when you can take the bus or walk?

That's the funny thing about recreational sport--everyone wants to be good, but no one wants to put in the necessary resources to get better at it. People cite utility and all that, but that argument doesn't hold water when we all 'waste' money on things we don't need all the time; sometimes on things that are in fact bad for us. At least tennis coaching can develop your athleticism, coordination, and good health. Each time I go to the cinema, there's a 75% chance that I have to endure yet another two hours of a rehashed hack job of a story, all the while I sit on my backside drinking 60 g of high fructose corn syrup and 600+ kcal in popcorn in one sitting. I could stream a porno for the story, eat granulated sugar, and give myself cancer for less. And yet the other day I shelled out another $15 to watch Logan, which was worth every cent--but it doesn't change the fact that watching it served no real utility. So I'd say that if it's valuable enough for you to throw a lot of your time at it, it's valuable enough for you to spend money on it. Money ought to be spent wisely, yes, but ultimately it is supposed to be invested in your happiness. It could be that the idea of seeing tangible improvements via a coach may not bring you much joy, since not everyone sees value in the same things--I like watches and you might like cars more--but I don't think the question of necessity ought to be given much weight considering that we all need to indulge in the amenities from time to time to be happy. Necessities are for survival, amenities are for living.

Besides, health benefits aside, you can always use sports skills to join a company team if you work in a big city firm.

sureshs · Mar 7, 2017

None of the adults I have seen has ever gotten better by taking lessons. I have overtaken them, one by one, as I improve with the tips on this forum and watching tennis on TV.

user92626 · Mar 7, 2017

Bender,

Your comparisons are way off. The clothes, equipment, gas money invested in recreational tennis are nowhere near the coaching rates indicated above. In short they are minuscule. Also, those investments aren't purely for tennis. People going to the court is a good excuse to socialize. If you want to exercise you'd need polyester shirts and shorts and shoes anyway.

You compare driving one's own car with taking the bus? Living in a nice house with living in a simple concrete box? The difference in benefits is clear and immense; there's nothing to debate.

Ok your point is getting coached and potentially becoming a very advanced rec player is one of the amenities, but that's exactly the thing I've been curious about. What comfort, luxurious features that you get from being a very advanced rec player that a 3.5 player wouldn't be able to get? In contrast I would think that it'd be miserable and alienating for advanced players to find games and compatible players of their levels.

user92626 · Mar 7, 2017

sureshs said:
None of the adults I have seen has ever gotten better by taking lessons. I have overtaken them, one by one, as I improve with the tips on this forum and watching tennis on TV.

Interesting. How do you know if you implemented the tips from here correctly?

Tips and instructions are a dime a dozen. It's correct implementation that's always the challenge.

mad dog1 · Mar 7, 2017

user92626 said:
Interesting. How do you know if you implemented the tips from here correctly?

Tips and instructions are a dime a dozen. It's correct implementation that's always the challenge.

The proof is in the videos! Sureshs hits his backhand just like Federer! It's just a beautiful almost ballet like shot. His high bouncing forehand is so reminiscent of Nadal's brutally punishing forehand that leaps up and forward. The forehand that has won him so many French open titles.

mad dog1 · Mar 7, 2017

user92626 said:
Recreational tennis coaching is always a peculiar thing to me. The biggest major thing that it has going against it is the question of necessity.

Unless you are very rich, how do you justify paying big bucks for a skill that ...takes you nowhere?

It seems to me that the sweet spot of recreational tennis is between 3.0 and 4.0. Outside of that range there's no utility for the skill. Just my opinion.

Why does anyone pay for violin or guitar lessons when very few people truly have the talent to become professional musicians? And unless you make it really big, being a musician playing in some small clubs won't allow you to make a comfortable living.

Same would apply to golf.

Some people just have a passion for learning things and a thirst for knowledge.

heninfan99 · Mar 8, 2017

Guess it comes down to the perception of value for money and if you like learning on your own. I learned guitar independently. Learned the scales from a book and etc.

A good hitting partner has value, a ball machine has value, a good racquet on sale with free string has value to me --a lesson not so much but I can see how someone would really like having someone there to show them things, maybe the guy feeds really well or has interesting drills, someone to talk to and treat it like a therapy session. It's all about perceived value.

sureshs · Mar 8, 2017

user92626 said:
Interesting. How do you know if you implemented the tips from here correctly?

Tips and instructions are a dime a dozen. It's correct implementation that's always the challenge.

Because people praise my tennis

pabletion · Mar 8, 2017

heninfan99 said:
Guess it comes down to the perception of value for money and if you like learning on your own. I learned guitar independently. Learned the scales from a book and etc.

A good hitting partner has value, a ball machine has value, a good racquet on sale with free string has value to me --a lesson not so much but I can see how someone would really like having someone there to show them things, maybe the guy feeds really well or has interesting drills, someone to talk to and treat it like a therapy session. It's all about perceived value.

Perceived value, YES! Dont try convincing anyone of anything. It might not have value to some, it does to others. This is life.

Exactly what you describe adds value to me: having someone to talk to about tennis, technique, drills etc... Even though I feel I know more about tennis than my coach, what I value the most is his eyes, I mean, whenever Im not hitting all tht well or missing certain shots, is being able to ask "what am I doing wrong? What do you see?"

No matter how much you know or think you know you cant really "see" what youre doing (or not doing), and Ive gotten a LOT of AHA moments like this.

To me its just a lot of fun to correct things and get better. I feel being good and motivated with tennis just adds up, and helps me overall.

heninfan99 · Mar 8, 2017

pabletion said:
Perceived value, YES! Dont try convincing anyone of anything. It might not have value to some, it does to others. This is life.

Exactly what you describe adds value to me: having someone to talk to about tennis, technique, drills etc... Even though I feel I know more about tennis than my coach, what I value the most is his eyes, I mean, whenever Im not hitting all tht well or missing certain shots, is being able to ask "what am I doing wrong? What do you see?"

No matter how much you know or think you know you cant really "see" what youre doing (or not doing), and Ive gotten a LOT of AHA moments like this.

To me its just a lot of fun to correct things and get better. I feel being good and motivated with tennis just adds up, and helps me overall.

Agree. People can also correct things by using video but it's all down to the individual, some prefer feedback from a person.

movdqa · Mar 8, 2017

pabletion said:
Perceived value, YES! Dont try convincing anyone of anything. It might not have value to some, it does to others. This is life.

Exactly what you describe adds value to me: having someone to talk to about tennis, technique, drills etc... Even though I feel I know more about tennis than my coach, what I value the most is his eyes, I mean, whenever Im not hitting all tht well or missing certain shots, is being able to ask "what am I doing wrong? What do you see?"

No matter how much you know or think you know you cant really "see" what youre doing (or not doing), and Ive gotten a LOT of AHA moments like this.

To me its just a lot of fun to correct things and get better. I feel being good and motivated with tennis just adds up, and helps me overall.

The big change is video if you can cobble it together.

You can see what you're doing with video.

Now can you "see" what you're doing from the perspective of interpretation? Video combined with a bunch of people looking what you're doing may provide you with good analysis. Or you might be able to compare video of yourself to known benchmarks.

GuyClinch · Mar 8, 2017

Tennis lessons are fun. That's all the reasons they need to be worthy of money. The fact that it can improve your game, help your fitness, give purpose to your training, provide coaching advice or tactical advice, allow you to meet new people - it's icing on the cake..

But as well all know cake tastes good - and that's why we eat it. Same thing with lessons - fun - and that is enough.

OTOH if you are taking lessons because you want to be a pro - for most people reading this - they should likely stop now.

If you are expecting huge improvements in your game - again - stop now. Guys who make huge improvements do in fact take lessons but they also get addicted to tennis - play a ton. They become obsessed and seek out better hitting partners. Plenty of people take one lesson a week - private and their game goes nowhere. Unless you get the bug - its not enough.

Tennis mastery like most masteries in life requires you to go all in.

And no getting addicted to this board won't make you great at tennis either. Sad to say. You have to be addicted to playing. The good news is the better you get - the easier it is to play more. The bad news is that when you get really good there is no one to play with.

pabletion · Mar 8, 2017

heninfan99 said:
Agree. People can also correct things by using video but it's all down to the individual, some prefer feedback from a person.

im a very visual person, and have always been a good observer, in the sense that I learn a lot by watching "how its done". It comes easy to me to emulate others, so when I first picked up tennis at 16 I copied Agassi mostly (thank God there was NO Nadal to copy then!).

Even being very confident about knowing enough about technique and being able to compare it to what I do, another pair of eyes, Ive found, is ALWAYS a plus, specially if its a coach that makes a living teaching. There are always details that you might've failed to catch, even if you can see yourself in video. I very rarely videotape myself, and you cant "feel" what youre doing as much as youre able to WATCH.

So one thing is being able to record yourself regularly, and another thing is to be able to recognize what you do or dont do when youre watching yourself in a video. You have to know enough about technique but also have an eye for detail. Its not easy, I think.

user92626 · Mar 8, 2017

heninfan99 said:
Guess it comes down to the perception of value for money and if you like learning on your own. I learned guitar independently. Learned the scales from a book and etc.

A good hitting partner has value, a ball machine has value, a good racquet on sale with free string has value to me --a lesson not so much but I can see how someone would really like having someone there to show them things, maybe the guy feeds really well or has interesting drills, someone to talk to and treat it like a therapy session. It's all about perceived value.

Definitely the perception of value for money, and a little more than that it is also one's ability to process the value.

For example you and I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars for recreational coaching. It's not just the cost but also because of our ability to get similar benefits elsewhere. The OP gets "having someone to talk to about tennis, technique, drills" from paid coaching. I also get those same things more or less from payment-free groups, playing, rallying, etc.

So, my whole point in this is.. I'm trying to find that extra value, the difference that warrants paying thousands. I'm not criticizing, judging anyone's choice.

Friedman Whip · Mar 8, 2017

LeeD said:
No. Lots of tennis coach's have watched my pathetic game, like to talk to me about other player's games, but never directly have asked me to teach them anything.
I'm a surfer. I learn on my own. I learned motocross, road racing, water skiing, snowboarding, skiing, windsurfing, kiteboarding, all without ever taking a lesson from anyone.
How's my game, you ask? Well, I suck basically, but I"m also 68 now, and play with all the former A/Open level player's who turned my age. I"m about even.
Why did I never get better than B, or 4.5? Because the year after I made B, I started racing motocross and kept up with my surfing. There wasn't time to do both and still keep a full time job to support myself, so I quit tennis the year after I became a B player, or 4.5, 3 and a half year's after starting tennis.

I gotta take issue with this. I also go back to the old A B C division days, and in my neck of the woods when NTRP ratings came in it became pretty obvious that C basically equaled to 3.5, B was 4.0 and A was 4.5 and above. Now around here there is 3.5, 4.0, 4.5 and Open. Very few 5.0 players around so never see a 5.0 division in a tournament. Some of the 4.5 guys will often play Open and sometimes win a match, against another guy who like themselves really isn't an Open level player. But when they come up against a real Open player, say, a current Division I college player, they get blown out. Point is, your equating B division to 4.5? Not around here.

Bender · Mar 8, 2017

user92626 said:
Bender,

Your comparisons are way off. The clothes, equipment, gas money invested in recreational tennis are nowhere near the coaching rates indicated above. In short they are minuscule. Also, those investments aren't purely for tennis. People going to the court is a good excuse to socialize. If you want to exercise you'd need polyester shirts and shorts and shoes anyway.

You compare driving one's own car with taking the bus? Living in a nice house with living in a simple concrete box? The difference in benefits is clear and immense; there's nothing to debate.

Ok your point is getting coached and potentially becoming a very advanced rec player is one of the amenities, but that's exactly the thing I've been curious about. What comfort, luxurious features that you get from being a very advanced rec player that a 3.5 player wouldn't be able to get? In contrast I would think that it'd be miserable and alienating for advanced players to find games and compatible players of their levels.

Your view on tennis was strictly on the basis of utility.

Living in a nice house or driving a car as opposed to taking the bus or tube is no different, even if the benefits are plainly obvious. Having a place to live in is a necessity. That the place needs to be nice is not, ie a luxury. From what I understand of your post, if tennis is a luxury, then it's a waste of money. In this post you're saying a nice house or a nice car is not the same as tennis because you can see the difference. Poor argument--you can see the difference between a kid that's been coached and a Tips / Instructions hack from a mile away. A fancy house or driving a car when living in a plain house or taking public transport will do are both expensive luxuries all the same. The only difference is that to you, a three storey mansion and a Ferrari is more worth it than tennis lessons. That's fine, but that's a matter of your own value v cost / price, not really a matter of practicality as you argue.

Also, group lessons are fairly inexpensive, depending on where you live. Alcohol is expensive and serves no benefits whatsoever. It also costs a lot. So does TV / cable depending on where you live. Cars are particularly expensive when public transport is an option. None of these are necessary for life, unless you live in a place with no public transport and you live very far away--in which case for utility purposes you should buy the cheapest car that would get the job done, else that too would be a waste of money.

Ie you can't call tennis coaching an impractical expensive luxury then spend that money on wine, BMWs, and a jacuzzi.

user92626 · Mar 8, 2017

Bender said:
Your view on tennis was strictly on the basis of utility.

Ie you can't call tennis coaching an impractical expensive luxury then spend that money on wine, BMWs, and a jacuzzi.

Utility, purpose, reason. It has to be there and substantial enough to justify that money which is a substantial amount for many.

I don't know where you got the idea that alcohol serves no benefits. How do you get (fun) drunk without alcohol? And there's very affordable, cheap alcohol out there.

I wasn't talking about kids getting coach and potentially moving up. The topic refers to rec adults paying 100, 200 a lesson.

Bender · Mar 8, 2017

user92626 said:
Utility, purpose, reason. It has to be there and substantial enough to justify that money which is a substantial amount for many.

I don't know where you got the idea that alcohol serves no benefits. How do you get (fun) drunk without alcohol? And there's very affordable, cheap alcohol out there.

I wasn't talking about kids getting coach and potentially moving up. The topic refers to rec adults paying 100, 200 a lesson.

I didn't mean alcohol has zero benefits whatsoever--it's that those benefits have no practical use as you say. At least, no more than tennis as a whole does. Alcohol is bad for your health, and 'having fun' is not necessary for survival if we go along the lines of utility. Exposing yourself to the risks of dependence / addiction and the associated loss of health puts it exactly the opposite of having benefits once you recognise the buzz as being anything but essential.

Utility, purpose, reason--this discussion really comes down to how you frame your POV. You came strictly from a utility POV in the post I first quoted--that's fine, but it's clear that you do not apply that argument consistently. Rather, it appears to you as more of a value argument, not one of utility strictly speaking. You fail to see the value in paying through the nose for coaching and I can recognise that. What I don't agree with is the way you're arguing that it has no utility all the while defending alcohol ('feeling good') or driving ('saving time')--and yet both of these can be found via coaching. You feel good from the adrenaline rush of hitting awesome shots, and you save time by not faffing around on these boards trying to fix a FH that could've been fixed by a coach fairly quickly. Plus, the learning skills and athletic skills translate to other sports, the same way football and basketball players get a head start in tennis.

Re: prices, I don't know about how it is in the States, but surely not every coach charges $100-200 a lesson. Even the coaches back in London had affordable prices depending on where, when, and with whom. I can get that being prohibitively expensive though. Right now, I've found myself a good deal--I join group sessions of four for only $40 over two hours, but then again I live in Asia--the same coach charges x2 for private.

Dolgopolov85 · Mar 9, 2017

Getting drunk is worth more than taking a tennis lesson? I have heard everything now.

atp2015 · Mar 9, 2017

Why do people eat good food or drink nice beverages? They cost money, can get by just raw vegetables and water. Why live in a nice house? Humanity survived in caves for millions of years. Car, tv and the list is endless.

heninfan99 · Mar 9, 2017

atp2015 said:
Why do people eat good food or drink nice beverages? They cost money, can get by just raw vegetables and water. Why live in a nice house? Humanity survived in caves for millions of years. Car, tv and the list is endless.

I live below my means, trying to stack up that paper but with an internet connection voila there's Macci teaching via YouTube all kinds of things. My tube TV is used, $75 bought 9 years ago. My amazing car cost $1,800 dollars. There's a lot of frugal people out there, not just me.

I want to move into Sureshs' neighborhood some day and buy a home for cash. This is more important than some glorified 4.5 feeding me from a basket.

But to each his/her own.

Alien · Mar 9, 2017

I have some time off work this week and enrolled in a kind of high level training, joining a kid almost a third my age who wants to get a D1 scholarship. I am there everyday at least two hours. Not sure what it is going to cost me lol. They are killing my legs, basket me fron one corner to the other until I simply can't breathe anymore. Rest some and the we change it a bit (like hitting offensive close to the net the next defensive well at the back). Still can't breathe, after one hour my legs are shaking.

It is great, I love it. If didn't have to work and could do this every day for a couple of months my level would certainly be up by a notch at least and I could compete at Seniors ITF with good chances.

Unfortunately I am not rich so need to go back to the office soon.

atp2015 · Mar 9, 2017

heninfan99 said:
This is more important than some glorified 4.5 feeding me from a basket.
But to each his/her own.

I agree, it would not pay more than minimum wage for someone to just feed balls.
Real coaches do more than that. My initial motivation was to avoid getting injured and spend money on already rich health care pros. I have seen too many that hit 1000s of balls with bad technique and carry pain/injury for months/years.

time_fly · Mar 9, 2017

movdqa said:
I run five+ miles a day and am trying to work up to six. I'm trying to add more weight-training time to that as well. And tennis.

As a former competitive distance runner and tennis player, I think it's great that you are running 5+ miles per day. But especially as I've aged I've decided that distance running isn't a great way to train for tennis. It beats up your body over time, and you get more value out of strength training (especially core- and balance-oriented stuff) and intense intervals than you do out of pounding out miles. Now I use non-impact stuff like the stairmaster, bike, cross-trainer, or pool to build up a cardio base and save the running for shorter, faster intervals. My legs feel better and I play better that way. You can also do some intense whole body cardio intervals with things like up-down planks and ropes instead of doing all leg-oriented cardio.

Do you take tennis lessons?

Take tennis lessons?

No. Dont like to.

No. Too expensive.

Yes. Once a week. $

Yes. 2-3 times a week. $$$

Yes 4-5 times a week. $$$$$

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