Russia Banned From Winter Olympics

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Chadillac

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Bartelby said:
I can't see that any of the great dictators of the twentieth century had such a set of beliefs.
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Great isnt exactly a proper term. Hugo Chavez is close, not positive though. I think he claims catholic but he doesnt act like one.

"During the rule of Chavez, the government took control of Catholic schools and removed religious education from public schools. Both of these events have resulted in a smaller percentage of Catholic followers compared to other Latin American countries."

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-venezuela.html
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Chavez was democratically-elected again and again until death took him off the ballot paper, and we were talking about dictators not democrats.

This means, of course, that you are irrelevant as usual.

Chadillac said:
Great isnt exactly a proper term. Hugo Chavez is close, not positive though. I think he claims catholic but he doesnt act like one.

"During the rule of Chavez, the government took control of Catholic schools and removed religious education from public schools. Both of these events have resulted in a smaller percentage of Catholic followers compared to other Latin American countries."

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-venezuela.html
Click to expand...
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I have been following the progress of this for sometime now and it has been pretty clear that the IOC would ban Russia.

What was amazing was that the IOC refused to ban Russia from the Summer Olympics, but Western blackmail has now prevailed.

insideguy said:
This is pretty amazing news.
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I

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Bartelby said:
I have been following the progress of this for sometime now and it has been pretty clear that the IOC would ban Russia.

What was amazing was that the IOC refused to ban Russia from the Summer Olympics, but Western blackmail has now prevailed.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't care. Its just pretty amazing news.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Given that Russia was partly banned from the Summer Olympics and totally banned from the Paralympics, when added to the numerous stories promoting the ban, the news seems predictable rather than amazing.

insideguy said:
I honestly don't care. Its just pretty amazing news.
Click to expand...
 
Comb Over Champion

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
It's those who ban something who have the burden of proof and WADA cheerfully banned Meldonium while acknowledging they had no studies to show it acted pharmacologically as a PED.
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That is not true. WADA is free to ban anything they want, unless it is unreasonable to do so (obviously, they wouldn't ban water). What harm is there in banning a drug which could be potentially used as a PED? Let me know what harm is there in banning a placebo.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
WADA could indeed ban a ham sandwich ... and it did.

And that's why its decision to ban Meldonium cannot withstand criticism.

Comb Over Champion said:
That is not true. WADA is free to ban anything they want, unless it is unreasonable to do so (obviously, they wouldn't ban water). What harm is there in banning a drug which could be potentially used as a PED? Let me know what harm is there in banning a placebo.
Click to expand...
 
Comb Over Champion

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
WADA could indeed ban a ham sandwich ... and it did.

And that's why its decision to ban Meldonium cannot withstand criticism.
Click to expand...
Meldonium (whether it is clinically useful as a PED is a different story) was used due to its supposed performance enhancing properties by thousands of athletes in Russia. This is a fact, and it is enough reason for WADA to ban it. If, as you say, it was a simple placebo, what is the harm?
 
Comb Over Champion

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
People in the West keep getting more unfree and less prosperous, according to most indicators.
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This is a straw man, and has nothing to do with my question. Communism has never, ever, provided anything good to humanity. As bad as the Russians are now, they are much better off than when they were a Communist regime. Venezuela and North Korea don't particularly seem to be paradises of any kind to me, either. When you have to build a fence to keep people in (vs building a fence to keep people out) you know your system is an absolute failure. I recall there were not many people escaping West Berlin towards the ironically called Democratic German Republic when the Wall was up, do you?
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You asked a rhetorical question so I was not obliged to answer it.

I provided a statement of my own and it is, unfortunately, irrefutable.

Vaste swathes of the population of Western countries have simply been left without work and/ or without a living wage.

While rich and powerful interests take over the political system and use it to award themselves tax cuts.

Comb Over Champion said:
This is a straw man, and has nothing to do with my question. Communism has never, ever, provided anything good to humanity. As bad as the Russians are now, they are much better off than when they were a Communist regime. Venezuela and North Korea don't particularly seem to be paradises of any kind to me, either. When you have to build a fence to keep people in (vs building a fence to keep people out) you know your system is an absolute failure. I recall there were not many people escaping West Berlin towards the ironically called Democratic German Republic when the Wall was up, do you?
Click to expand...
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
WADA does not claim that Meldonium is a PED.

Comb Over Champion said:
Meldonium (whether it is clinically useful as a PED is a different story) was used due to its supposed performance enhancing properties by thousands of athletes in Russia. This is a fact, and it is enough reason for WADA to ban it. If, as you say, it was a simple placebo, what is the harm?
Click to expand...
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
And I guarantee you the Americans do the same thing

All politics and the Olympic belongs back in Ancient Greece
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Funny.. people in here said that for sure "evil" Putin would not let the Russians compete. Now USA might not go.
Should maybe have thought about that before having major military drills and threatening NK 2 months before the Olympics :oops: The Olympics is only 80km from the NK boarder. So smart o_O
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Bartelby said:
People in the West keep getting more unfree and less prosperous, according to most indicators.
Click to expand...
Whatever system countries are having, experience have shown that western meddling in countries we are trying "to save", always goes wrong and we make them worse. Better leave them as they are, and communicate with them as like worthy human beings and have normal trade with them.
Accept there are cultural and political differences. Its good and bad with every system and culture.
 
ojo rojo

ojo rojo

Legend
Comb Over Champion said:
This is a straw man, and has nothing to do with my question. Communism has never, ever, provided anything good to humanity. As bad as the Russians are now, they are much better off than when they were a Communist regime. Venezuela and North Korea don't particularly seem to be paradises of any kind to me, either. When you have to build a fence to keep people in (vs building a fence to keep people out) you know your system is an absolute failure. I recall there were not many people escaping West Berlin towards the ironically called Democratic German Republic when the Wall was up, do you?
Click to expand...

What remains today are five nominally communist nations. In Cuba, the revolution survives mostly as a decrepit museum piece. The communist parties of China, Vietnam and Laos preside over largely autocratic forms of runaway capitalism. In North Korea, communism has become a nuclear-armed cult of personality and police state.
But in Kerala - far from the high-stakes manoeuvres of the Cold War and nearly 2,000 miles from the Indian capital of New Delhi — history has taken the most unexpected of detours.
Instead of ossifying into an autocratic force, Kerala’s communists embraced electoral politics and since 1957 have been routinely voted into power. Instead of being associated with repression or failure, the party of Marx is widely associated with huge investments in education that have produced a 95 percent literacy rate, the highest in India, and a health-care system where citizens earning only a few dollars a day still qualify for free heart surgery.
This modern incarnation of communism also has produced one of the stranger paradoxes of the global economy: millions of healthy, educated workers setting off to the supercharged, capitalist economies of the Persian Gulf dreaming of riches and increasingly finding them.
Unlike communists in China, Latin America or Eastern Europe, party leaders in Kerala never seized factories — the “means of production,” in the words of Marx — or banned private property. Instead, they competed in elections with the centre-left Indian National Congress party, winning some years and losing others.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Kerala communists simply have a strong socialist agenda in a situation where the state needs to play a leading role in nation-building.

When you 'unpack' the usage of the term 'communism' you usually find a multitude of diverse ideas based heavily on local intellectual traditions.

Communism signified, in short, a modernising nation-building movement in an historical environment where imperially-imposed forms of capitalism were experienced as domination.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
ojo rojo said:
Instead of being associated with repression or failure, the party of Marx is widely associated with huge investments in education that have produced a 95 percent literacy rate, the highest in India, and a health-care system where citizens earning only a few dollars a day still qualify for free heart surgery.
This modern incarnation of communism also has produced one of the stranger paradoxes of the global economy: millions of healthy, educated workers setting off to the supercharged, capitalist economies of the Persian Gulf dreaming of riches and increasingly finding them.
Click to expand...

They fled to the Gulf and other parts of India because they could not find a job in Kerala because businesses couldn't deal with the labor there, leading to the joke about the Nair guy serving tea to Neil Armstrong when he landed on the moon.

The high levels of education resulted in students with degrees finding no jobs other than teachers to teach another generation of students who would become teachers.

In terms of IT, finance, cosmopolitanism, cities in other states, like Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Noida, Gurugram, Ahmedabad have all moved much further on than Kochi or Tiruvananthapuram.

But it is a great state for health care and status of women, and greenery.

BTW, communism in some states of India is/was not really communism, but some kind of socialism.
 
Comb Over Champion

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
ojo rojo said:
What remains today are five nominally communist nations. In Cuba, the revolution survives mostly as a decrepit museum piece. The communist parties of China, Vietnam and Laos preside over largely autocratic forms of runaway capitalism. In North Korea, communism has become a nuclear-armed cult of personality and police state.
But in Kerala - far from the high-stakes manoeuvres of the Cold War and nearly 2,000 miles from the Indian capital of New Delhi — history has taken the most unexpected of detours.
Instead of ossifying into an autocratic force, Kerala’s communists embraced electoral politics and since 1957 have been routinely voted into power. Instead of being associated with repression or failure, the party of Marx is widely associated with huge investments in education that have produced a 95 percent literacy rate, the highest in India, and a health-care system where citizens earning only a few dollars a day still qualify for free heart surgery.
This modern incarnation of communism also has produced one of the stranger paradoxes of the global economy: millions of healthy, educated workers setting off to the supercharged, capitalist economies of the Persian Gulf dreaming of riches and increasingly finding them.
Unlike communists in China, Latin America or Eastern Europe, party leaders in Kerala never seized factories — the “means of production,” in the words of Marx — or banned private property. Instead, they competed in elections with the centre-left Indian National Congress party, winning some years and losing others.
Click to expand...
It sounds like Kerala is as much a true Communist regime as Kaitlyn Jenner is a true lady.
 
Comb Over Champion

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
You asked a rhetorical question so I was not obliged to answer it.

I provided a statement of my own and it is, unfortunately, irrefutable.

Vaste swathes of the population of Western countries have simply been left without work and/ or without a living wage.

While rich and powerful interests take over the political system and use it to award themselves tax cuts.
Click to expand...
Again, you are using a straw man. The fact you believe my question is rhetorical means you tacitly accept Communism is a failure.

As for the loss of wealth and freedom in democratic states, it is due to the fact they have become less democratic and more Big Brother-like. For example, widespread State surveillance on its own citizens is something I would have expected from Communist Russia, but not from the United States of Fricking A.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
1. Your question was not a question, but a statement aka rhetorical question.

So I countered it with my own statement, which is not a straw man argument.

My view is that there is really no such thing as 'communism' and that it only exists as a 'monolith' in the minds of fanatical anti-communists.

My view of communism is as is stated in post 289.

2. The American Government is using Russia, in part, to censor the net and Google and Faceboook are happy to go along as 'corporate partners' in surveillance.

As Eisenhower said, the military industrial complex has taken over, with a touch of banking and IT to modernise the form of control.

Comb Over Champion said:
Again, you are using a straw man. The fact you believe my question is rhetorical means you tacitly accept Communism is a failure.

As for the loss of wealth and freedom in democratic states, it is due to the fact they have become less democratic and more Big Brother-like. For example, widespread State surveillance on its own citizens is something I would have expected from Communist Russia, but not from the United States of Fricking A.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
ojo rojo said:
What remains today are five nominally communist nations. In Cuba, the revolution survives mostly as a decrepit museum piece. The communist parties of China, Vietnam and Laos preside over largely autocratic forms of runaway capitalism. In North Korea, communism has become a nuclear-armed cult of personality and police state.
But in Kerala - far from the high-stakes manoeuvres of the Cold War and nearly 2,000 miles from the Indian capital of New Delhi — history has taken the most unexpected of detours.
Instead of ossifying into an autocratic force, Kerala’s communists embraced electoral politics and since 1957 have been routinely voted into power. Instead of being associated with repression or failure, the party of Marx is widely associated with huge investments in education that have produced a 95 percent literacy rate, the highest in India, and a health-care system where citizens earning only a few dollars a day still qualify for free heart surgery.
This modern incarnation of communism also has produced one of the stranger paradoxes of the global economy: millions of healthy, educated workers setting off to the supercharged, capitalist economies of the Persian Gulf dreaming of riches and increasingly finding them.
Unlike communists in China, Latin America or Eastern Europe, party leaders in Kerala never seized factories — the “means of production,” in the words of Marx — or banned private property. Instead, they competed in elections with the centre-left Indian National Congress party, winning some years and losing others.
Click to expand...
Shameful omission on your part not to mention that Kerala produced the legendary athlete Suresh Babu!:p:D

Young :p:D Suresh, growing up in neighboring Tamil Nadu, must have idolized his athletic talents in the broad jump in particular.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Bartelby said:
1. Your question was not a question, but a statement aka rhetorical question.

So I countered it with my own statement, which is not a straw man argument.

My view is that there is really no such thing as 'communism' and that it only exists as a 'monolith' in the minds of fanatical anti-communists.

My view of communism is as is stated in post 289.

2. The American Government is using Russia, in part, to censor the net and Google and Faceboook are happy to go along as 'corporate partners' in surveillance.

As Eisenhower said, the military industrial complex has taken over, with a touch of banking and IT to modernise the form of control.
Click to expand...
Whats the point of discussing communism w Americans? They are brainwashed w thinking communism is the devil. Besides, its socialism in different grades its more of these days anyway, and people are free.
Most of the people fleeing NK choses to go back to NK, except if they flee to SK as they will not let them go back.
 
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