Why don't players get how to warmup/rally?

zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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mad dog1 said:

Maybe it’s not intentional. Have you considered that maybe you hit the ball with so much spin and pace that the guys you are hitting with can’t handle it and therefore are spraying?

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mad dog1 said:

Maybe it’s not intentional. Have you considered that maybe you hit the ball with so much spin and pace that the guys you are hitting with can’t handle it and therefore are spraying?

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styksnstryngs said:

Or maybe the other way around, maybe op is just really out of shape and the balls his opponent is giving him feel like normal shots for the opponent but to OP, they feel like winners impossible to reach.

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jacob22 said:

There's a big difference between warm-up and practice. In a warm-up, you're getting your strokes and timing ready for the match. In practice, I want to be able to practice shots that I need to hit well in a match, that includes attempted winners. That's not to say I tried to hit a winner off the feed but after a 5-6 balls back and forth, everything is fair game. What's the point of practice if you're only hitting easy balls right back to your opponent? Yes, you practice the stroke, but what about placement and strategy?

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mad dog1 said:

Post title said warmup rallies, not practice rallies.

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jacob22 said:

The original post itself refers to practicing, not warmup for a match

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Dartagnan64 said:

My pet peeve with guy that just want to warm-up/practice is that they seem to want to just hit down the middle. I go stand in a corner because if I'm going to warm up, I want to warm up my CC shots and they look at me like I'm from Mars when I hit their rally ball CC.

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Dartagnan64 said:

My pet peeve with guy that just want to warm-up/practice is that they seem to want to just hit down the middle. I go stand in a corner because if I'm going to warm up, I want to warm up my CC shots and they look at me like I'm from Mars when I hit their rally ball CC.

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jacob22 said:

There's a big difference between warm-up and practice. In a warm-up, you're getting your strokes and timing ready for the match. In practice, I want to be able to practice shots that I need to hit well in a match, that includes attempted winners. That's not to say I tried to hit a winner off the feed but after a 5-6 balls back and forth, everything is fair game. What's the point of practice if you're only hitting easy balls right back to your opponent? Yes, you practice the stroke, but what about placement and strategy?

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zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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nytennisaddict said:

most idiots think that practice is a time to "practice" winners.

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ChaelAZ said:

One of my regular hitting partners just doesn't have it in him not to try to hit winners. I mean, we might have a few minutes of good rally mini tennis to start, with good loops and a slow pace, but he starts hitting lower topspin shots with pace pretty quick. He chronically seems to need to prove he can hit hard. And not with any placement either. Many of his "winners" are simply bailout shots from the rally when he doesn't get in position and just hits it. So I use him for more movement practice for myself, knowing most rallies will only be 4 to 10 shots max.

It's the same guy who in Feburary, we had Dolehide and another player practicing on the next court over for the pro circuit and as we finish and walk by he says to them, "Hey, if you need some good pace to hit with let us know". I immediately started laughing, as did the girls, and I add "that's him, not me". We all kinda chuckled, but as we walked away I was all, "Do you SERIOUSLY think you can hit with them?" His response was, "Well, I don't mean in a match, but I could rally with them." I used my kinda words to mention that our longest rally was 12 balls in the last 2 hours of hitting and there were plenty of onezie, twozie hits, and that "we" would embarrass ourselves with that. He went off on that "we" would hit more serious with them and I am just underestimating my game...yadda...yadda...

Seriously...people kinda get wrapped up in their own mental image of their game instead of the reality of their games. So winning practice...just another way to keep that ego up.

'Tis why I really love video. You get to slap them with reality.

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zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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EddieBrock said:

That annoys me a lot too! I went to a clinic and warmed up with someone who was just crushing the ball right out of the gate.

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nytennisaddict said:

most idiots think that practice is a time to "practice" winners.

most good players know that practice is about grooving strokes, cooperative hitting to maxmize # of balls hit per hour,... if you can't maintain a long rally, you likely can't hit winners either.
the same people that "practice hitting winners" really shank a ball accidently, and say they meant it...
some folks on here have claimed to be able to hit lines intentionally (i challenged them to drop feed from baseline and do that - no takers)

when i come across one shot wonders, if i'm up for a conditioning session, i'll oblige and chase down shanks, wide balls, long balls, etc...
else once they hit 3 "winners" in a row from feeds down the middle, i'll just challenge them to a set (ie. if you're gonna make me run, give me a chance to make you run too)

there's caveats to my "rule" but that's the gist.

side notes:
* some people get initimidated/annoyed if you hit too hard to them... similarly they get annoyed if you hit heavy and deep (eg. illiciting "the matador")

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zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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Say Chi Sin Lo said:

This, and all of that.

Idiots like that LOVE to go for and hit winners in rally/practice drills because they know there's no consequences to missing, as in they won't lose a point. So to them, what's wrong with going for those insane angle, inside-in down the line shots, and absolutely wailing on the ball. ALL of which results in the end of the rally and subsequent retrieval of the ball. It's quite obvious if someone goes for winners off of a feed.

Here's what I do when I encounter someone like that, and trust me, there are a lot of them among the rec players:
1) Don't hit with them ever again
2) Ask them to play a set/match, and they'll quit that sh*t real quick.

Any good player who's gone through proper coaching and played from a young age will understand the importance of cooperative practice. Youtube-inspired or TT-inspired players, not so much. You can pretty tell who they are, they usually have glue underneath their shoes.

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ChaelAZ said:

One of my regular hitting partners just doesn't have it in him not to try to hit winners. I mean, we might have a few minutes of good rally mini tennis to start, with good loops and a slow pace, but he starts hitting lower topspin shots with pace pretty quick. He chronically seems to need to prove he can hit hard. And not with any placement either. Many of his "winners" are simply bailout shots from the rally when he doesn't get in position and just hits it. So I use him for more movement practice for myself, knowing most rallies will only be 4 to 10 shots max.

It's the same guy who in Feburary, we had Dolehide and another player practicing on the next court over for the pro circuit and as we finish and walk by he says to them, "Hey, if you need some good pace to hit with let us know". I immediately started laughing, as did the girls, and I add "that's him, not me". We all kinda chuckled, but as we walked away I was all, "Do you SERIOUSLY think you can hit with them?" His response was, "Well, I don't mean in a match, but I could rally with them." I used my kinda words to mention that our longest rally was 12 balls in the last 2 hours of hitting and there were plenty of onezie, twozie hits, and that "we" would embarrass ourselves with that. He went off on that "we" would hit more serious with them and I am just underestimating my game...yadda...yadda...

Seriously...people kinda get wrapped up in their own mental image of their game instead of the reality of their games. So winning practice...just another way to keep that ego up.

'Tis why I really love video. You get to slap them with reality.

Click to expand...

r2473 said:

Is it not acceptable to hit hard in warmups? If not, what speed is acceptable? Can balls ever be too slow?

Is it OK to hit with spin? Is too much spin inappropriate? How much spin is acceptable?

Are slices OK?

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EddieBrock said:

Yes, of course it's acceptable to hit hard in warmups, but not until you've hit a few balls so your body has a chance to loosen up a bit. A lot of people like to start with mini tennis and I'm starting to think part of the reason is to avoid having people crushing the first few balls. You should try to hit medium pace balls to each other and hit both forehands and backhands. Look at the pros warming up. That's what your trying to do, not crushing balls into the corners or hitting drop shots. Balls can be too slow if you start out just boonballing.

There's no issue with spin as long as you're warming up different shots.

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nytennisaddict said:

the funniest example of this i had, was a decade or so ago, this older guy that saw me serving... (probably the age i am now - but back then he was "old")
so he asked if i wanted to hit...
10m into the rally he starts spraying... at first i wasn't sure if he just couldn't control the shots, or if he was trying to hit winners.
so i merrily chased down shanks outside the dubs alley, and hit swinging volleys from behind the baseline...
then after another 15m of that, i realized every time i coughed up a short ball, he'd put it away.
i challenged him to a set... which he *eagerly* accepted (his buddies were really cheering him on everytime he 'won' a point in the rally)..
i played a dropshot/lob game jerking him back and forth... underhand serve, chip drop shot return, etc... i think he hit himself trying to return my kicker.
at 5-0, he "had to go".

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Say Chi Sin Lo said:

OMG, don't get me starting on shanks and practice. First of all, let me make this clear... If you shank or mishit a ball, I would have no problem with it. We all do it, no need to make a big deal out of it. But you know how most shanks/mishits would send the ball flying OFF the court? So, my partner would shank a ball, and it starts steering itself towards the doubles alley. So I'd sprint and retrieve it back, even though it was an out ball, because:

1) It's good stamina/speed/explosiveness practice
2) I don't want the errand ball interrupt nearby courts
3) I don't want to have to walk further to pick it up if I didn't stop it.

And you know how if you were retrieving a ball from the doubles alleys or beyond, you're way off the court? So I'd hit it back, and you're super compromised at that point so there's not much on that ball, plus you're off the court. And what do these idiots do? "Oh look! An easy floaty ball! Let me go for a winner even though you had to go and retrieve my shank"

--.-- Yeah, we're done here.

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EddieBrock said:

Yes, of course it's acceptable to hit hard in warmups, but not until you've hit a few balls so your body has a chance to loosen up a bit. A lot of people like to start with mini tennis and I'm starting to think part of the reason is to avoid having people crushing the first few balls. You should try to hit medium pace balls to each other and hit both forehands and backhands. Look at the pros warming up. That's what your trying to do, not crushing balls into the corners or hitting drop shots. Balls can be too slow if you start out just boonballing.

There's no issue with spin as long as you're warming up different shots.

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zaph said:

This is one of my pet hates and came up again today. Agreed to hit a few practice rallies with someone who couldn't serve due to injury. So I feed the ball down the middle, what I get in return is balls nailed into the corner, drop shots, winners hit flat onto the baseline, lobs when I come in to get dropshots and awkward balls with funky spins on them.

In some ways this is good practice, running around madly retrieving all this stuff. Eventually I lose patience and wack one of his balls passed him into the corner. At which point he complains that it was just practice and there is no way he could reach this. Really, with all the mad shots I have had to dig out?

He isn't the only person who does this. Our club is full of people who try to win warmups and practice hits. Which is a complete waste of time. So here is the tip. Warmups and practice hits are not about winning points, there are no points.

They are about warming up and practicing shots. If nobody wants to practice/warmup with you, you might well be the guy I described above.

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r2473 said:

Here's a novel idea. You could simply speak to them. Explain to them what your expectations are. They might in turn speak to you. You could come to a mutual understanding on how to cooperate. You might even enjoy hitting with them.

Is that too old fashioned?

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nytennisaddict said:

oh, i do say something... but usually it's along the lines of, "hey what's the score over there.., because you seem to keep wanting to hit winners when i'm feeding balls down the middle" (then they cite the few that i shanked, as me going for a winner).
the same people are also "matadors" to show me my ball was out (when they could have easily stopped it or hit it back... instead the cost of "winning the point" is needing to fetch the ball)
eventually i get to, "how about we just play a set"... every time the answer is "yeah" because that's what they wanted to do in the first place.

bottom line,... with better players, you never have to ask,... it's understood. so best to just avoid the practice-king, unless you're just gonna play sets (or groundstroke games, or whatever)

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r2473 said:

What I find most interesting is our relationship with "standards" in general.

From what I can tell, those that expect others to adhere to "standards" are too rigid. Too full of themselves. Think there is only one right way to do things. Can't see things from others point of view. This view works out fine, until I get annoyed with the way somebody else does something. Then I want to have recourse to standards so I can tell them they are wrong.

So from what I can see, as long as everyone does things just the way I want them done, everything will be just fine. And they also need to bear in mind that the way I want things done can and will change (because I'm not rigidly bound to any standards).

Now, anyone who can't live up to my standards (which aren't standards, because standards are too rigid), I'm going to be annoyed with.

Sheesh, is this too unreasonable for you people? Or are you just too stupid to understand?

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r2473 said:

The way you ask isn't intended to illicit cooperation. "Hey what's the score over there" is certainly not going to be received well (nor would you expect to). It's "snark", pure and simple.

I'm being serious. If you want to have a good hitting session with someone that doesn't understand the "normal etiquette", best way is to stop the hitting session, talk to the guy, and come to an understanding. And to do it in a good natured way. For example, after the guy smashes a winner into the corner (or whatever), just let the ball go and let him know your expectations. There's a good chance he simply doesn't understand.

Sometimes when a lower player hits with a better player, they feel they have to prove themselves by hitting hard and into the corners. To show the better player that they are "good". In my experience, this is often the reason they do it. As the better player, explain to them what the expectations are of a rally.

And you don't need to let them know that you're the alpha dog either (by challenging them to a set). The whole idea of a warm-up or rally of this kind is the absence of competition and mutual cooperation. It's a two way street (if you really want it to work).

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zaph said:

Allas, in my experience, talking doesn't get you anywhere. There are too many people who don't understand the difference between a warmup and match. A hitting session and a match.

To be blunt it shouldn't need explaining, look at how the pros warmup and practice. They don't smack feeds into the corners, unless that is the drill, so why would you?

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r2473 said:

Here's a novel idea. You could simply speak to them. Explain to them what your expectations are. They might in turn speak to you. You could come to a mutual understanding on how to cooperate. You might even enjoy hitting with them.

Is that too old fashioned?

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zaph said:

Allas, in my experience, talking doesn't get you anywhere. There are too many people who don't understand the difference between a warmup and match. A hitting session and a match.

To be blunt it shouldn't need explaining, look at how the pros warmup and practice. They don't smack feeds into the corners, unless that is the drill, so why would you?

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Say Chi Sin Lo said:

I operate on logic and commonsense, as in, this is the same courtesy I would want for myself, and expect of others.

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George Turner said:

If restrictions were put in place on strings/racquet some of today's players would drop off the tour.

There's a lot of not very talented players today benefiting from advances in technology levelling the playing field. Golf has a similar issue with technology allowing any ordinary ball striker to drive it 300+ yards. So the world number 100 can win any event.

This is largely why these days you see the world number 100 pulling off more "upsets" than 15 or 20 years ago in tennis.

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heninfan99 said:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/i-dont-need-to-hit-accurately.614704/

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