chris-swede
Hall of Fame
Torpegaard is seeded 6th in ncaas invidiuals..what a joke as he is the best Player...
Ohio State Tennis
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Gracelhink
Rookie
Losing #2 singles Hugo DiFeo of Canada born April 1995 left a hole at the top of Bucks lineup. He played 2 years 2016-17 but NCAA declared him ineligible for 2018. Hugo’s loss really pushed young Bucks, Wolf and McNally up in the lineup.
Hard to understand the eligibility decisions when Wake has 2 of 6 In the singles lineup born spring summer 1995 and a third born in March, 1994 but is listed as a Freshman and won 123 matches on the ITF pro tour.
Hard to understand the eligibility decisions when Wake has 2 of 6 In the singles lineup born spring summer 1995 and a third born in March, 1994 but is listed as a Freshman and won 123 matches on the ITF pro tour.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
I guess Tucker needs to stop recruiting American, or Ohio-American players and just get an entire roster of ex-ITF Futures International guys....Maybe then they have a chance
CincyIllinifan
Rookie
Have you considered how difficult it is for a northern, midwestern team to win the NCAA’s? Tough to compete/recruit against coastal/warm weather schools. Just to get to the finals, or the quarters (Illinois) is a decent accomplishment.
I’m sure neither coach Tucker or coach Dancer are satisfied, but to say they need to re-evaluate is a bit much.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Really a bummer, they had a great season....And if they pull off the doubles point they win it. That was a tough task last night, they should be proud regardless
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Well my point was that in recent years, Ty had as good of talent as any other team in NCAA, or close to it. But he just can't find a way to bring the championship to OSU. OSU can recruit, it has the BEST fascility and athletic programs in the country. OSU pretty much has Professional level athletic support for all their athletes. and if you are a motivated student, they have a great academic program as well. so they have all the tools to recruit great players. So coaching staff has no excuse.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Actually, he has had a mix of 2/3 International guys and local talent. Its pretty impressive he has gotten them as far as he has and convinced guys that could go the academy/pro route to stick around and play at OSU (Buchanan, Kobelt, Wolf, McNally). He has also gotten some teams with lessor talent then West Coast/Southeast schools in the mix at the end, so the good as any other I would not agree with.
Have you been to OSU's tennis facilities? Not even the best in the conference. They didn't have an indoor facility till 7/8 years ago, and the one they do have is an old indoor soccer facility that was donated by a Michigan alum, and they converted until they can actually have the money to build a new one. School just won't commit yet to doing it. Their outdoor facility is nothing great, and is located far away from the indoor. Its super inconvenient. Nebraska (Their's is awesome), Illinois, Penn State, Michigan, Minnesota, and Indiana all have much better facilities. Even Iowa just put in a state of the art facility, its pretty nice! OSU puts all its money into the revenue sports, and the other sports get peanuts. They just spent 45 million re-sodding the football practice fields and improving locker rooms for sports other then tennis (https://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/04/ohio_state_has_recently_invest.html). Football team is god at OSU; tennis team? Barely any support. I have seen the athletic director at matches recently so maybe Ty is getting him in there to put some more effort in tennis, but without Ty they would be playing tennis on the schools recreation courts like they did prior to 2000. They are lucky to even have play sight at the Indoor facility, still trying to raise money to add it outdoors.
Nope, they got lots of money, but it all goes to Football, Basketball and other potential revenue sports. Unlike schools that get lots of donations for new facilities like the ATP facility Wake had built. The tennis team at OSU is begging for some money....Stanford's tennis facilities compared to OSU's is like a Mansion next to a Mobile home.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
I hate to do this, because I have always despised the tOSU tennis program, but there is no denying that Ty Tucker is a great coach (definitely top-5 in the country) and Ohio State would probably be a middle-of-the-conference and nationally irrelevant team without him.
You would be hard-pressed to find a college tennis coach who gets more out of his players than Tucker.
You would be hard-pressed to find a college tennis coach who gets more out of his players than Tucker.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
I know its hard, and you probably threw up writing that. But I think Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, and Minnesota had a great run and representation in the NCAA's this year, and all should be pumped about the state of BIG10 tennis. They are all doing a great job being competitive and fielding solid rosters across the board, in places that aren't exactly tennis strong holds. And also doing it with a fluttering of local talent.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
Ohio State has done a better job than Illinois of keeping their best local talent home.
Illinois did get the Hiltziks and Dennis Nevolo before them, but think about how much better Illinois would have been if they had successfully recruited Evan King, Michael and Martin Redlicki, Tom Fawcett, Gianni Ross, Martin Joyce, and Vincent Lin.
Of course, Illinois was able to get Gui Gomes (who was injured this year), Caleb Chakravarthi and Keenan Mayo (2018) from California and Aleks Kovacevic from New York, so that helped. But most of Illinois' top US recruits recently have been from the other Midwestern states and the Plains states (Kansas, Oklahoma).
Illinois did get the Hiltziks and Dennis Nevolo before them, but think about how much better Illinois would have been if they had successfully recruited Evan King, Michael and Martin Redlicki, Tom Fawcett, Gianni Ross, Martin Joyce, and Vincent Lin.
Of course, Illinois was able to get Gui Gomes (who was injured this year), Caleb Chakravarthi and Keenan Mayo (2018) from California and Aleks Kovacevic from New York, so that helped. But most of Illinois' top US recruits recently have been from the other Midwestern states and the Plains states (Kansas, Oklahoma).
Nacho
Hall of Fame
I agree with you....I was impressed with their talent level when I saw them play OSU in April. The match was sort of a dude because of playing in the wind and then rain delayed, but they looked good and had a solid tournament.
I am sort of amazed that the tennis talent in the area (Illinois) goes elsewhere. The have a pretty awesome facility and I think Dancer is a great coach. Sort of perplexing that he hasn't just established a constant stream of good local players from the Chicago/M!Dw3st area, similar to what Georgia has done with Atlanta. In his defense he does compete with Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Univ. Of Chicago, (up until this year UIE), and other smaller schools; so the tennis options and competition are deeper in that part of the M!Dw3st then around Ohio or Michigan, and may impact how he recruits. Plus you always have to deal with the premier tennis schools always poaching the best guys from across the country.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
The problem is that most of the top tennis talent in Illinois comes from the Chicago suburbs (primarily the North Shore area) and a lot of those parents graduated from other universities (Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Ivy League schools, etc) and don't have the loyalty to the flagship state school that you find in Ohio, Michigan and other Midwestern states. Evan King's father is a Michigan alumnus, for instance, so it was going to be tough to change his mind.
Also, the top Illinois recruits come from elite schools where there is a strong pull to attend elite private universities like Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc.
Illinois has been fortunate over the years to get some great players from warm-weather states like California, Texas and Florida. It's funny, but sometimes it's actually easier to sell those kids on the University of Illinois than the locals.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Interesting, makes sense. There seems to be a unified loyalty to some schools like Ohio State and Michigan, probably because of the revenue sports. Maybe Illinois will be in the same place with good tennis kids having more ties to the school in the future. I've enjoyed watching Illinois over the years, the early teams of the 2000's were awesome to watch
Clemson_tennis
Legend
So was this year's team the best Ohio State men's team ever? Better than the 2009 national runner up team? Better than the Rola/Kobelt teams?
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Not sure if you are picking on me or baiting me here...or neither
But, IMO the 2012, 2013, 2014, teams were more talented then either 2009 or 2018. Had great seasons but always fell short in the NCAA tournament although 14' they won the indoors and looked like they might go all the way. I also thought 2017 would be the year, but Virginia was just too strong.
Between 09' and 18' thats a tough one to call. I think 18' was a stronger lineup in terms of depth with Seelig and McNally (Novak and Buchanan in 09), but the 09' lineup may have just been more experienced with Koniecko, Kronauge, and Moneke (Torp, Wolf, and McNally 18'). Buchanan was a good player out of HS, but Wolf and McNally have been much stronger earlier on. The top lineup this year is more talented and will go further after college, but Wolf and McNally are still learning; they will be awesome Jr's and Sr's. Both teams seemed to be short one key player in the middle lineup, Seibert will be good but seemed a little overwhelmed at times throughout the season. Even in 09' there was a lot of playing around in that 4,5,6 spot, those are the spots that always hurt Buckeye, and other, teams.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
I dont know if it is every year, but Illinois has hosted the national level 1 boys 18 team tournament the week before Kzoo. So 6-7 top boys from each of the 17 sections come into Illinois, have a fun time playing on their courts, getting a great warmup for Kzoo, and there is even a shuttle from Champaign to Kzoo. In addition there are futures in Edwardsville, Decatur, and Champaign in July before Nat Team. I think a few hardy boys played Champaign Future, then Nat Team, than Kzoo. Anyway could make recruiting easier when you have top kids from all over the country coming to your courts in the summer.
It probably helps OSU and Illinois with both domestic and international recruiting to have Futures and Challengers-think they are the only MW schools with those. OSU has two-Challenger in Sept, Future in November-not sure if they will have 2 every year, and Ty used his WC to get all players-even the sub 12 guy who probably never played a match- in either the MD or Quali of the Future. WC to a Challenger is a really big deal-think Kentucky had a challenger too-that has to be attractive to internationals to have opportunity to play a challenger Quali or MD on home courts.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
@Nacho @illinoisportsfan I have heard from several people about the great facilities at Iowa and Nebraska. Iowa has had some success recruiting Brits. Do you think Nebraska with the right new coach stands a chance of bringing in good recruits and moving out of the basement of the big 10? Nebraska has one of the lowest ITA rankings for power schools-#113 when Western Michigan is #68, and Marquette/Depaul are around #90. Cant see why any power school with good facilities isnt top 75 unless coach has limited or no scholarships like Mich state (limited to in state i think) and or none like Boston College. Nebraska was the home of Roddick and Sock-seems like there must be some talent base of tennis there. Who do you think are good candidates for the Nebraska job?
Wolf played 2 all last season...so????
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Replace Ty with Coach Whitlinger and he will bring OSU the championship in no time.
Gracelhink
Rookie
Good catch on Wolf at #2. He did play #2 more than DiFeo -- 16 matches at #2 for Wolf vs. 9 for DiFeo.
I probably would have more argument for my "what if, and if only rant" if I would have pointed to ITA rankings.
RS Jr DiFeo ranking reached as high as #3, but never dropped below #9 during the season.
Early enrollee JJ Wolf started unranked and peaked at #41 on April 28.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Nebraska's facilities are nice enough to hold major events, $20 million cost to build and mostly coming from benefactors ( http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=208873064&DB_OEM_ID=100 ). Seems like they wouldn't do something like this unless they felt they could elevate the program, so I have no idea what the issue is. Their mens coach had been there for over 30 years, but just had his contract cut so maybe this is the move to get a more aggressive coach in there. The Nebraska AD is a football guy who is a prolific fundraiser, and has elevated many of the schools athletic programs he has been at (Oregon, Wash. St.). So, unlike other football AD's, he seems to care about making all sports good and not just the revenue one. If Oklahoma can have a lasting program I don't see why Nebraska can't, with the facilities they have. Iowa I have no idea I don't know much about that program, but they are looking like they are making the effort to field competitive teams. Their facility, although nice, is not immediately on campus so I am not sure if this has any impact.
BC's facilities are terrible, basically rec courts, and Michigan State is just a lack of interest on the part of the AD and school. Its going to be even worse now that they are paying out a big lawsuit. Its to bad because their facility, while outdated, is still decent and they have a decent coach who is tenured, just no support.
In other words, it was the typical suspicious Ty Tucker lineup.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
In other words, it was the typical suspicious Ty Tucker lineup.
Speaking of that, I like how Tucker admitted that he stacked for the national championship match. He said he was basically conceding that Seibert was probably going to lose his match "especially after not playing in first three matches in Winston-Salem," but "By putting Seibert in the lineup, Tucker could put Kyle Seelig at No. 5 and Martin Joyce at No. 6, where they won handily as Tucker hoped."
http://www.dispatch.com/sports/2018...-state-falls-to-wake-forest-in-national-final
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
I am very surprised that Nebraska does not have a better tennis team. Without knowing anything about the coach, I think that bringing in someone new could give the program a boost into at least the top half of the B1G and top-50 nationally.
I had heard that Jack Sock might have gone to Nebraska if he had attended college, so that he could play with is brother. That probably would have helped them
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Nacho
Hall of Fame
I realize you guys hate Tucker, and OSU, (and I am sure I annoy you) which is fine....But stacking may be a little to extreme to say. Siebert did play most of his matches at 4 this year and even some at 3; Kyle split between 4 and 5. It was a strategic decision that didn't work. Not sure it would have ended differently with other people there. And it isn't much different then Brown playing 2 and Hiltzik 3 against OSU, and I didn't think that was stacking
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
You don't annoy me at all.
There is a big difference between what Dancer did and what Tucker did. Hiltzik had been losing a lot, and often without putting up much of a fight. If you notice, he wasn't even ranked anymore. In contrast, Brown had been getting better and better and had a big winning streak. If Dancer was going to "stack," he would have just left Hiltzik at 2 and kept Brown at #3 where he had been winning most of his matches. And if you noticed in the match with Wake Forest, Brown was in a tight 3-set match with Chrysochos at #2 while Hiltzik lost 6-4, 6-3 at #3.
On the other hand, Tucker played a guy who for some reason hadn't played at all since May 12th (was he injured?), and admitted he would be rusty and probably lose, but would help the team by pushing Seelig and Joyce back in the lineup.
Now, that is not technically a "stack," since he played mostly #4 during the season, but it is certainly in the spirit of stacking. If Seibert gave tOSU their best chance to win at #4, why didn't he play in the previous matches?
And we all know Tucker's history at tOSU is usually having one guy play mysteriously high in the lineup.
Now that I've criticized Tucker's lineups, I will say another nice thing about him. I love the fact that Tucker is a native Ohioan (I actually remember when he was in the juniors), played at Ohio State, and is coaching at his Alma mater. He's done a lot through the years to promote tennis in his home state. With all of his success, I'm sure he could have left for a more-traditional tennis power in a warm-weather state, but he hasn't. I respect that.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Ha, now your getting down in dirty. Love it. Again, I don't think switching guys one spot is stacking...but your right, I can't deny his comment in the dispatch that he is playing a guy (who didn't play all tournament) with the hopes that 5/6 have an easy go of it, so it certainly implies tanking a match..aka stacking... even though the guy did play 4 all season.
Word I got on Siebert was he was injured for a short time, and so Tubert and Mendez played a bit more. Not sure what the injury was, clearly nothing severe, probably ego since he was struggling...Its all strategy in these things, I'm not sure other coaches would have done it much different.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
There is only a .35 UTR difference between Joyce and Seibert and even less between Seelig and Seibert. There are teams that have players moving from 5 to 2 over the course of a season, so keeping Seibert at 4 was reasonable in light of typical coaching strategies. I thought Seibert played well for a freshmen considering how 2 and 3 played. He will be fun to watch next year. If he had played a little less risky or had a little more experience, he probably would have won the 2nd set. Still would have been tough in the 3rd. After getting passed once by Botzer, he should not have tried the same play two points in a row. Bottom line, once OSU dubs lost dubs, Tucker probably figured he only had a 25% chance of a win with the hope McNally would beat Skander. #2-4 are young for OSU-even though it is Wolf's 2nd year, he started early. Those Wake guys just have more experience between age, Davis Cup, Futures, etc. I dont think it is an international vs domestic issue as much as an experience issue but the point can be made that it may be easier for internationals to get that experience because there simply are more opportunities in Europe/Greece/Eqypt/ Turkey, etc to play Futures and/or high level club/prize $.
CHtennis
Rookie
I am an OSU fan and really appreciate Ty Tucker, but I totally agree with you about the lineups. This used to annoy me but it is done by a lot of D1 coaches and I justify it by him doing it just to keep up... I even anticipated him putting back in Siebert to get better matchups in a comment in College tennis today but I do get your point. I also really respect Coach Dancer and the job he has been able to do at Illinois and have enjoyed the rivalry.
He played #4 all season because Tucker stacks all season, almost every year. He knows better than to wait until May and suddenly switch the lineup. How did Seibert look all year compared to Seelig?
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Man @ClarkC , you are on my @zz today, not giving me an inch on anything....No problem, I love it....
Ok, Seibert started in January, played #3 (going 3-0), #4 (7-4), and #5 (1-0). Seelig played #2 once (1-0), I think against Dayton or something, #4 (9-2) #5(9-4) and #6 (3-0). They are both virtually even on UTR...So its sort of a wash...
I actually like Seelig a ton, he's a solid player, the kind of guy you want on any team. Finds ways to win and had a great tournament (and an American player); tough not to root for him. To your point on how Seibert looked, what's not in the stats is that Seibert had a lot of unfinished matches, some he was struggling in (Iowa) or some he might lose (Texas). So, even though they look like they could be close on paper, Seelig performed better and maybe should have had more shots higher up. Is it stacking? Well, you apparently don't care for Ty or OSU so yes....I am closer to them so I am a little more open to it, but I can get there with your conclusion. I would see stacking as putting Wolf at 4 or something...not moving around 4 and 5. Based on my view of the two players, Seelig is more consistent, and Seibert is closer to Joyce as a player.
One thing I will say about Ty Tucker: He has a record of developing talent. No other high level program has consistently brought in five star recruits, redshirted them for a year (uncommon in tennis), and developed them so that they are really good lineup players in their fourth and fifth years.
Someone mentioned Peter Kobelt earlier as an example of an elite player, but he was never ranked higher than #53 at TRN. He redshirted, still looked like a skinny kid who was a bit overwhelmed for most of the next year, and then took off.
Tucker has also signed some northern/MW indoor tennis net players who might not make the highest level in singles, but who have made big contributions to the doubles lineup. Over the years, there have been some good doubles-only players at OSU who were also just five star recruits and not too close to the blue chip boundary. I wish we saw more of that at some other programs around the country.
Someone mentioned Peter Kobelt earlier as an example of an elite player, but he was never ranked higher than #53 at TRN. He redshirted, still looked like a skinny kid who was a bit overwhelmed for most of the next year, and then took off.
Tucker has also signed some northern/MW indoor tennis net players who might not make the highest level in singles, but who have made big contributions to the doubles lineup. Over the years, there have been some good doubles-only players at OSU who were also just five star recruits and not too close to the blue chip boundary. I wish we saw more of that at some other programs around the country.
CincyIllinifan
Rookie
Yeah, I really like the new Nebraska facilities - no reason why they shouldn’t start attracting better talent.
I like the Illini’s facility, but after they spent all this money on a nice facility, it’s almost as if they ran out of money at the end. The outdoor courts were originally supposed to have elevated seating, but they ended up with ground level (have to look through the fence) seating.
CincyIllinifan
Rookie
I don’t know - OSU seems to get quite a few blue chippers, at least lately. McNally, Wolf, Joyce, and Seelig are all blue chip recruits. Then you add in the foreign players, Torpegaard and Seibert, and you have a pretty potent lineup - especially when you have Seelig and Joyce playing at 5 and 6.
jerryjones1960
Rookie
no he is not, but if he wins the tournament then I will agree
jerryjones1960
Rookie
Seibert at 4 is a huge stack, Ty does it every year. Seibert is a good player, but the big 10 is bad and Ty manages it so well. He plays him against bad teams and builds his record up and only uses him for a sure loss like against WFU if he thinks it helps him at 5/6. Give credit to Ty for working the system and stacking this guy well.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
They are a part of it. I'm pretty sure the tennis players will have access to the sports medicine and athletic performance centers, as well as the nutrition center and dining facility and academic support services.
The Big10 is bad? Seriously? Big 10 had 4 teams go to the sweet 16 this year. Only 1 other section had 5 teams go....so I'd retract that statement. #uninformed
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
The Big 10 is not bad, but it is probably weaker at the bottom than the other major conferences at this time. That means there are more easy matches where you can mess with your lineup without being in danger of losing.
Every team has discrepancies - Wake having Petros at 2 is a great example. As has been said several times throughout all these blogs - everyone knows Petros at 2 is a huge stack. This is done throughout all conferences....and several coaches "place" players based in match ups and injuries etc. All conferences and coaches do this...so call a spade a spade. And the statement was - the Big 10 is bad. That's is factually wrong.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
How can you call it a "huge" stack, when the guy at #1 is ranked 7th in the nation and is now in the quarterfinals of the national tournament?
Gojo would be a legitimate #1 for almost every team in the country.
If you got a high impression of Chrysochos last year, and have paid no attention this year and know nothing about Gojo, you could think it is a stack.
Deacon Drive
Rookie
How is that "huge stack" looking now, with Gojo beating Blumberg to get to the final 4?
Home courts. Home fans. Everything perfect for Wake team and Wake individuals. It's crazy that it's not at a neutral site.
illinoisportsfan
Rookie
petros is a stronger player than gojo. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this. gojo's results are helped by the fact that any ball that hits the line against him is called out.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Nebraska's facilities are amazing, but I think there's a facilities "quality threshold" that once crossed, it doesn't really matter to recruits how much MORE nice any school's facilities are over another. So, even if Nebraska's were the very best, the fact is there's a bunch of other schools that have very nice facilities, even if not as good as Nebraska. Recruits aren't making their decision between schools that are over the threshold based on facilities. While it's a great first step, Nebraska, with little men's tennis success history, is going to have to do a LOT more.
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Nacho
Hall of Fame
I agree with your comment. I believe for tennis ultimately a recruit wants to "play for someone". They want to develop, learn, and of course hopefully play for something. Probably depends on how utilitarian the players is as far as how much they care about the facilities; lets face it we're all different. Also depends on the kind of players a coach is looking for. Its similar to recruiting people for a job, you want to build a team, and certain character traits will work better for your team. Some will accept any working environment situation if its good for the team. But, having nice facilities can be a selling point advantage over another school. Clearly doesn't work for Nebraska, looks like they are trying to change that.
Problem with tennis is it's an individual sport, so drives a lot of egos and kids who care about what they get, and they haven't had experience playing on a team. I was speaking with a guy I hit with who was an All-American in the early 90's, and he said he chose one school over another because one was sponsored by Nike and the other by Pony
...One last thing, the facilities improvements has become an "arms race" between schools, for all sports. Especially in the BCS conferences. It is costing so much money it has an impact on non-revenue sports (like tennis) as lower tier schools try so hard make their football and basketball facilities better they have to clean out the budget for sports like tennis....Really bugs me. Ridiculous some of the amenities schools spend on their mediocre football teams, that basically break even and have poor attendance. Additionally, the ITA/USTA/NCAA sets a bunch of standards for courts, number of courts, lighting, facilities nearby etc...So some schools opt not to bother as it is too costly to upgrade.
