Starting knot tied to crosses

ba4x · Jul 9, 2018

Does anybody anchor their starting knot on a cross instead of a main?

I have always anchored to a main, as the stringing instructions for each racket I've strung indicate this. I have yet to notice a racket strung differently.

Today I was watching a Wimbledon highlights video and caught a glimpse of Federer's racket in slow mo - it shows the crosses tied off on the 2nd cross string (instead of the 5th main, for example).

The shot lasts only a second or two, starts at 00:14

Just curious if anyone has seen this or understands the logic. I'm guessing it's to avoid damage to the main string.

NDStrings · Jul 9, 2018

P1 ties poly to poly and gut to gut. Poly tied to gut is stress point and could cause the gut to fail. Of course to do this you need to use a starting clamp for your crosses and not use a starting knot.

FedLex123 · Jul 10, 2018

Yeah I noticed this as well. Kind of curious to know as to how you tie cross to cross since there doesn't appear to have a shared hole on the top half of Wilson rackets?

kkm · Jul 10, 2018

FedLex123 said:
Yeah I noticed this as well. Kind of curious to know as to how you tie cross to cross since there doesn't appear to have a shared hole on the top half of Wilson rackets?

You'll need to use an awl to enlarge the second cross grommet hole (9H) before you start stringing if you want to tie off there.

krisdrum · Jul 10, 2018

The knot is white/grey in color. The crosses are black. That looks like a main tied to a cross to me.

gmatheis · Jul 10, 2018

krisdrum said:
The knot is white/grey in color. The crosses are black. That looks like a main tied to a cross to me.

might just be a trick of the light.

krisdrum · Jul 10, 2018

gmatheis said:
might just be a trick of the light.

That would really surprise me based on what I've looked at several times on the video. But I guess it could be.

ba4x · Jul 10, 2018

The crosses are grey (ALU Power Rough). The mains are white (Natural Gut). The crosses are anchored on the 2nd cross. If the main was anchored to a cross it would be even more unconventional (ie stringing crosses before mains).

Thanks all for the insights.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Booger · Jul 10, 2018

I've always tied gut to poly when the pattern calls for it and never had a problem. Is it really an issue?

Rabbit · Jul 10, 2018

I wonder if @RJYU will have time to answer....looks like his boy(s) are still cutting grass!

Traffic · Jul 10, 2018

ba4x said:
Does anybody anchor their starting knot on a cross instead of a main?

I have always anchored to a main, as the stringing instructions for each racket I've strung indicate this. I have yet to notice a racket strung differently.

Today I was watching a Wimbledon highlights video and caught a glimpse of Federer's racket in slow mo - it shows the crosses tied off on the 2nd cross string (instead of the 5th main, for example).

The shot lasts only a second or two, starts at 00:14

Just curious if anyone has seen this or understands the logic. I'm guessing it's to avoid damage to the main string.

I string hybrid. I typically tie my starting knot to a cross for my crosses. It's especially true for stringing with gut hybrid.

AndI · Jul 10, 2018

krisdrum said:
The knot is white/grey in color. The crosses are black. That looks like a main tied to a cross to me.

If you look closer at other crosses, those closer to the top left corner of the video frame, they all appear to change color from black to silver-grey within the last 10-15 mm before they go into the grommet. This indeed must be the tricky lighting conditions in that shot.

krisdrum · Jul 10, 2018

AndI said:
If you look closer at other crosses, those closer to the top left corner of the video frame, they all appear to change color from black to silver-grey within the last 10-15 mm before they go into the grommet. This indeed must be the tricky lighting conditions in that shot.

Yep, that is what I get for not making the video full screen. Tricky for sure.

ba4x · Jul 10, 2018

Here's a better visual of the same concept (this is reportedly Federer's racket from Wimbledon 2007). The crosses are tied off this way on both ends.

struggle · Jul 10, 2018

I tie my hybrid off normally. Haven't had the gut snap there yet, and i use super cheap gut.

I did tie off crosses to themselves when i was fooling with restringing crosses only.

No more. But i can see why people would practice such.

CosmosMpower · Jul 10, 2018

People still use starting knots?

ba4x · Jul 10, 2018

CosmosMpower said:
People still use starting knots?

In this case it would be a finishing knot. I should have avoided the phrase "starting knot" in the post title, as it's not correct here.

Rabbit · Jul 11, 2018

CosmosMpower said:
People still use starting knots?

starting knots, hair beads, old funky clothes pins, Sharpie caps, all manner of 'stuff'.

Big Bagel · Jul 17, 2018

ba4x said:
Does anybody anchor their starting knot on a cross instead of a main?

I have always anchored to a main, as the stringing instructions for each racket I've strung indicate this. I have yet to notice a racket strung differently.

Today I was watching a Wimbledon highlights video and caught a glimpse of Federer's racket in slow mo - it shows the crosses tied off on the 2nd cross string (instead of the 5th main, for example).

The shot lasts only a second or two, starts at 00:14

Just curious if anyone has seen this or understands the logic. I'm guessing it's to avoid damage to the main string.

In a gut/poly hybrid, any high-quality stringer will avoid tying poly onto a gut anchor string by using a starting clamp rather than a starting knot. P1 isn't the only place where they do this; if you look at the stringing room of the big tournaments, all of the stringers will be using this technique.

Head and Yonex have both realized this and now make a second tie-off hole on the second cross rather than just having the traditional tie-off hole for a starting knot on the mains. That way stringers don't have to use an awl and manually enlarge the hole.

If you tie a good, tight knot with poly strings, it is very easy to damage the gut anchor string. Before I learned how to use a starting clamp, I had to change starting knots to avoid breaking the gut. I see a lot of people tying off finishing knots in very poor fashion, leaving the knots very loose. In these cases, using a finishing knot on the gut probably won't harm the gut, you will just have a very poor knot. The only way to guarantee a quality string job with a gut/poly hybrid is to use a starting clamp and do a quality knot, poly on poly. You might be fine doing it other ways, but you do have that risk of damaging the string.

Irvin · Jul 17, 2018

Big Bagel said:
The only way to guarantee a quality string job with a gut/poly hybrid is to use a starting knot and do a quality knot, poly on poly. You might be fine doing it other ways, but you do have that risk of damaging the string.

You may want to reword that. Tying a cross on a cross with a starting knot?

RJYU said:
Yes, we tie off the crosses on another cross. We do this because we don't like tying off poly on gut mains. A knot is the weakest point of a properly strung racquet, so we try to protect that spot as much as possible. A good stringer can tie a poly cross on a gut main with a good knot, and it won't be a problem. A problem is more likely to arise when an inexperienced or poor stringer applies too much pressure when cinching up the knot. Its possible to pinch the gut anchor if too much pressure is applied. We take this totally out of the equation by not tying off on the gut main at all. I've got no problem with stringers tying off on gut mains if they know what they are doing though.

EDIT: One way or another if you’re stringing the mains with gut you will more than likely tie of on gut strings, and tugging to tighten a finishing knot can cause more damage than a starting knot. If you use a good starting knot you will not damage the gut anchor string.

Big Bagel · Jul 17, 2018

Irvin said:
You may want to reword that. Tying a cross on a cross with a starting knot?

EDIT: One way or another if you’re stringing the mains with gut you will more than likely tie of on gut strings, and tugging to tighten a finishing knot can cause more damage than a starting knot. If you use a good starting knot you will not damage the gut anchor string.

Yes, I have reworded it, thank you. I meant starting clamp, not starting knot.

And it depends how you tie the knots. I've seen starting knots that put a lot of pressure on the anchor strings, such as the original starting knot I was taught. There are other starting knots where it is not an issue. Regardless, as RJYU said, it's better to not tie off on gut unless you have to. If you know what you're doing you should be fine, but you're still better off not doing it at all if you can avoid it.

TennisCJC · Jul 17, 2018

Wow, I have tied poly crosses to gut mains dozens of times and tied poly crosses to nylon mains hundreds of times without a single string breaking at the knot. I use a starting clamp and either a parnel or pro knot.

Ronaldo · Jul 17, 2018

Tying off a cross to a second cross must make it easier for Fed to just re-string the crosses. Save a nickel

Irvin · Jul 17, 2018

Big Bagel said:
And it depends how you tie the knots. I've seen starting knots that put a lot of pressure on the anchor strings, such as the original starting knot I was taught.

I use a starting knot based on the VS Starting knot, but instead of having the tail sticking out I run the tail up through the loops parallel to the anchor string. It’s similar to the normal starting but inverted that’s why I named it an iKnot. It looks very much like a Parnell after it tied but bigger and easier to tie.

Rabbit · Jul 18, 2018

^^^^^^^^
the 'i' is for Irvin. (don't tell anyone)

MAX PLY · Jul 18, 2018

Rabbit said:
^^^^^^^^
the 'i' is for Irvin. (don't tell anyone)

I not tell anybody!

Starting knot tied to crosses

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