New one-handed backhand [video]. Looking for feedback.

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

4.0 player, recently switching to one handed backhand. I'm about two weeks in. Trying this change because 2h was causing hip pain and despite improvements 2h has never felt natural or comfortable. Also I'm very right-hand dominant, so maybe the 1h will be a better fit in the end.

What's going right here and what's going wrong?

This shot in particular felt pretty good. Lower and higher balls are a different story...

ChaelAZ · Oct 16, 2018

All looks good to me really. What isn't working?

If I wanted to be picky you are losing a bit of power not having your arm extended fully, but that isn't a deal breaker really.

Edit to add: Mind you, I often hit with a bent elbow and still smack the crap out of the ball, so as mentioned that is kinda splitting hairs a bit.

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
What's going right here and what's going wrong?

I think you could have a very good 1HBH with some practice and coaching, your stroke looks great for 2 weeks in!

Couple of things I noticed:

Keep your left hand back more through/after the shot, you're slightly over-rotating through the shot IMO. Over-rotation can cause inconsistency/inaccuracy. YMMV. Watch slow-motion of Gasquet, Dimitrov, Fed, etc - they keep their left hand much further back than you. Wawrinka is the closest to your follow-through, but even he isn't quite so rotated on most of his shots.

The video is a little blurry so I can't tell for sure, but looks like you may be contacting the ball with your elbow still bent? Watch your video again to see what I mean. Bent elbow on take-back is OK, but it should completely straighten out by contact. Note the straight arm at contact from some of the best 1HBH of all time:

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

First thing I saw was ... looks pretty good. Second thing I saw was looked like bent elbow at contact. Looks like everyone spotted that ... and we don't agree on anything.

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

Both of the things you guys brought up have been on my mind lately:

Elbow slightly bent at contact. Yes my elbow is slightly bent at contact and then straightens fully right after the hit. When I try to straighten before contact (like Thiem) it feels terrible, like I've lost all power and the ability to make micro-adjustments to the ball position. Maybe this is all related to contact point. If I get my contact point slightly farther away then my arm would be straight then yea?
Upper body rotation and keeping the left hand back. I feel like driving upper body rotation off the front foot is helping me a lot with generating power. If I keep my left arm back then I'm no longer turning, so where does the power come from? Obviously this works for many pros so there's something I'm not understanding here.

Things that aren't working include low balls, high balls, and deep balls (where I'm rushed). I don't know if this is related to the above things or if it's just because I'm still new to all this.

ChaelAZ said:
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IowaGuy said:
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ByeByePoly said:
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ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Both of the things you guys brought up have been on my mind lately:

Elbow slightly bent at contact. Yes my elbow is slightly bent at contact and then straightens fully right after the hit. When I try to straighten before contact (like Thiem) it feels terrible, like I've lost all power and the ability to make micro-adjustments to the ball position. Maybe this is all related to contact point. If I get my contact point slightly farther away then my arm would be straight then yea?

Upper body rotation and keeping the left hand back. I feel like driving upper body rotation off the front foot is helping me a lot with generating power. If I keep my left arm back then I'm no longer turning, so where does the power come from? Obviously this works for many pros so there's something I'm not understanding here.

Things that aren't working include low balls, high balls, and deep balls (where I'm rushed). I don't know if this is related to the above things or if it's just because I'm still new to all this.

On the bent arm ... I would watch Fed and Wawrinka BHs. Wawrinka gets to full extension somewhere around back leg, and Fed goes from initially very bent to fully extended by around front leg. I like Fed style better because very relaxed at backswing. That said .. you start from fairly straight arm. Since you are just starting, now is the time to pick your style.

Watch the Fed vertical racquet thing on takeback, and then the flop to horizontal behind back on drop. I hit the 1hbh for 40 years without the vertical racquet, and trying it recently I missed out. It sure seems to provide easy lag release swinging from the slot.

You seem to already have the big things down (how in 2 weeks? nice) ... good turn, closed stance, timed weight transfer and swing off right leg/foot. Contact looks good to me ... what grip?

I looked for what @IowaGuy was talking about ... rotating through contact. I find that harder to quantify with the 1hbh than FHs. The main thing is a powerful handoff to the arm from body rotation before contact. Yours looks pretty good to me. Watch Wawrinka hit his 1hbhs from back view. Typically his shoulder line rotates to about right net post and then arm is powerfully released.

Yeah ... hate to tell you mate

... the 1hbh just ain't as user friendly on high balls. That's why they invented the slice. I am 3 years in with my 2hbh ... and look at chest/shoulder high balls with a smile now ... low balls not so much.

Chas Tennis · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Both of the things you guys brought up have been on my mind lately:

Elbow slightly bent at contact. Yes my elbow is slightly bent at contact and then straightens fully right after the hit. When I try to straighten before contact (like Thiem) it feels terrible, like I've lost all power and the ability to make micro-adjustments to the ball position. Maybe this is all related to contact point. If I get my contact point slightly farther away then my arm would be straight then yea?

Upper body rotation and keeping the left hand back. I feel like driving upper body rotation off the front foot is helping me a lot with generating power. If I keep my left arm back then I'm no longer turning, so where does the power come from? Obviously this works for many pros so there's something I'm not understanding here.

Things that aren't working include low balls, high balls, and deep balls (where I'm rushed). I don't know if this is related to the above things or if it's just because I'm still new to all this.

If you initially accelerate using shoulder muscles and a straight arm it takes more force to accelerate. Your shoulder muscles - positioned with very weak leverage - are not strong enough. Maybe some can do that. Federer. ?

An alternate way to accelerate is to use the stronger torque trunk and leg muscles to turn your uppermost body at the shoulders. That can accelerate the arm with the elbow straight.

Two options for initial acceleration:
1) shoulder muscles initially accelerate - Video shows upper arm separates from the chest and can move independently. F. Lopez drive technique observed in about 2013, now? Federer mostly, maybe not always. ?

2) uppermost body initially accelerates - Video shows the upper arm becomes pressed by the chest or stays pressed on the chest and the stronger trunk and leg muscles initially accelerate the uppermost body, arm and racket together. Video shows also that the uppermost body and the upper arm move together. Straight arm is used for more speed. Gasquet, Wawrinka, Justine Henin drive technique.

Understand where the rotation axis is from videos.

Note - I believe that the maximum torque that the shoulder muscles can produce limits the torque that the uppermost body can apply = don't initially use the shoulder muscles.

Seeing a small space at the armpit requires high quality high speed video. Your video has blur and the contrast of your black shirt makes seeing a space impossible. I also can't tell if your upper arm and uppermost body are moving together. Use bright sunlight, focus carefully, close up view, better contrasts.

This long thread discusses this issue. Minimum read - post #1, then #51. Then look at the remaining videos with discussions.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...and-waht-force-to-start-forward-swing.462997/

Warning. Using the uppermost body to accelerate the arm and racket can increase pace. The ball striking has to be good to avoid stresses that are associated with the one hand backhand and tennis elbow.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

ok - I have the best 1hbh in my zip code, so trust me on this -

- bent arm is no big deal. don't worry about it.
- left arm staying back is no big deal, don't worry about it... actually the new breed of 1hbh Thiem Shapovalov, they are NOT trying to stay side ways with the left side staying back. the power source is parametric acceleration where the right shoulder pulls hard to the RIGHT and BACK... but that is more advanced stuff, don't worry about it for 4.0 4.5
- low ball - the swing is the same, but you need to tilt the spine angle back to have a higher launch angle. or if you have a pure E grip, change to a weak E/ strong C grip, which is what I use... I am about 6' tall.
- high ball - make sure your wrist is relaxed so that after the racket drop, the face is closed and you can just rip from there... try to hold the racket with the top section of the thumb (the section with the thumb nail). this way on high balls you can roll the thumb in to close the face... this is a minor detail but it makes a huge difference to close the face.
- deep balls - you just hit on the rise... if you are rushed, the footwork pattern should be a right foot stab to the left while you swing forward... check all the pros how they return a wide serve to the bh side.. they all use the same footwork pattern.

your swing path is good... but the minor details above should give your bh a full range of strike zone to make it real solid in all situations.

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

Chas Tennis said:
If you initially accelerate using shoulder muscles and a straight arm it take more force to accelerate. Your shoulder muscles - positioned for with very weak leverage - are not strong enough. Maybe some can do that. Federer. ?

Interesting. I'm sure it has to do with strength. In the video I actually have a straight arm when the racquet is back. However when I start to accelerate towards the ball my elbow bends, probably because I'm not strong enough to hold it straight through the rotation. Perhaps this will improve over time.

No wrist or elbow pain thus far, despite playing a lot recently. The only pain I had was at the very beginning when I tried to do it with a continental grip McEnroe style. Fun for low, flat shots but seems like you have to contort your arm to get any topspin.

Now I'm using Eastern and it feels good. Topspin is automatic for well struck balls, no extra manipulation required.

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
ok - I have the best 1hbh in my zip code, so trust me on this -

- bent arm is no big deal. don't worry about it.
- left arm staying back is no big deal, don't worry about it... actually the new breed of 1hbh Thiem Shapovalov, they are NOT trying to stay side ways with the left side staying back. the power source is parametric acceleration where the right shoulder pulls hard to the RIGHT and BACK... but that is more advanced stuff, don't worry about it for 4.0 4.5
- low ball - the swing is the same, but you need to tilt the spine angle back to have a higher launch angle. or if you have a pure E grip, change to a weak E/ strong C grip, which is what I use... I am about 6' tall.
- high ball - make sure your wrist is relaxed so that after the racket drop, the face is closed and you can just rip from there... try to hold the racket with the top section of the thumb (the section with the thumb nail). this way on high balls you can roll the thumb in to close the face... this is a minor detail but it makes a huge difference to close the face.
- deep balls - you just hit on the rise... if you are rushed, the footwork pattern should be a right foot stab to the left while you swing forward... check all the pros how they return a wide serve to the bh side.. they all use the same footwork pattern.

your swing path is good... but the minor details above should give your bh a full range of strike zone to make it real solid in all situations.

Good post

"if you are rushed, the footwork pattern should be a right foot stab to the left while you swing forward... check all the pros how they return a wide serve to the bh side.. they all use the same footwork pattern."

Do you mean really wide serve? I started looking at pro 2hbh ros and the "go to" is open off wide leg (left for right hander). Out of curiosity, I also looked at 1hbh ros and was surprised how often they hit open 1hbh ros.

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
bent arm is no big deal. don't worry about it.

Can you please name a top pro who hits a 1HBH with a bent arm at contact? Thanks in advance.

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
ok - I have the best 1hbh in my zip code, so trust me on this -

You could also have the only 1hbh in your zip code

j/k

What you are saying about low balls makes a lot of sense. It feels really difficult to get under them with my current grip. Many low balls end up spinning into the base of the net. So a slight grip adjustment I'll try along with spine angle. One thing I'm noticing is that adjustments to face angle with 1hbh feels much more limited than with forehand or 2hbh. (i.e. adjusting for low balls on the forehand side is trivial enough to not require explanation)

For high balls I'll try to focus more on where my thumb is and using it to close the face.

These sound like good tips. I look forward to trying them out.

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Interesting. I'm sure it has to do with strength. In the video I actually have a straight arm when the racquet is back. However when I start to accelerate towards the ball my elbow bends, probably because I'm not strong enough to hold it straight through the rotation. Perhaps this will improve over time.

No wrist or elbow pain thus far, despite playing a lot recently. The only pain I had was at the very beginning when I tried to do it with a continental grip McEnroe style. Fun for low, flat shots but seems like you have to contort your arm to get any topspin.

Now I'm using Eastern and it feels good. Topspin is automatic for well struck balls, no extra manipulation required.

"However when I start to accelerate towards the ball my elbow bends, probably because I'm not strong enough to hold it straight through the rotation."

Nah ... that seems backwards. The natural state for the propelled arm should be straight. I go from bent to straight, and not a strength thing. I hit cont, and you are right about bh e being easier for topspin. The pros of cont are flattish drives, low balls, same grip for drives, slice, drop shot, volleys. Guess which dom hand 2hbh grip I picked. Cont ... I love me some bh continental grip.

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Can you please name a top pro who hits a 1HBH with a bent arm at contact? Thanks in advance.

Yep ... that was the one thing in his post I didn't agree with ... 1hbh just ain't right without straight arm at contact.

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
You could also have the only 1hbh in your zip code j/k

What you are saying about low balls makes a lot of sense. It feels really difficult to get under them with my current grip. Many low balls end up spinning into the base of the net. So a slight grip adjustment I'll try along with spine angle. One thing I'm noticing is that adjustments to face angle with 1hbh feels much more limited than with forehand or 2hbh. (i.e. adjusting for low balls on the forehand side is trivial enough to not require explanation)

For high balls I'll try to focus more on where my thumb is and using it to close the face.

These sound like good tips. I look forward to trying them out.

"For high balls I'll try to focus more on where my thumb is and using it to close the face. "

1hbh slice not optional if 100% 1hbh. Will you be able to still hit some 2hbh and keep hip ok. My plan is to keep my flat 1hbh dtl when in the strike zone. I have a much older hip than you ... maybe this 2hbh thing was a bad idea to start at 57.

So far feel no hip stress, but I am starting to hit a lot more open 2hbh.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Can you please name a top pro who hits a 1HBH with a bent arm at contact? Thanks in advance.

RyanRF said:
You could also have the only 1hbh in your zip code j/k

What you are saying about low balls makes a lot of sense. It feels really difficult to get under them with my current grip. Many low balls end up spinning into the base of the net. So a slight grip adjustment I'll try along with spine angle. One thing I'm noticing is that adjustments to face angle with 1hbh feels much more limited than with forehand or 2hbh. (i.e. adjusting for low balls on the forehand side is trivial enough to not require explanation)

For high balls I'll try to focus more on where my thumb is and using it to close the face.

These sound like good tips. I look forward to trying them out.

I will answer these 2 together because they are sort of related.

- if the low ball is hitting the bottom of the net, then you need about 15 degrees of spine tilt backwards to get it over the net, and your swing will not feel rushed to lift the ball... try it... it will work.

- I prefer using the same grip for all balls... so at 6' tall I use weak E/strong C grip to lift low balls comfortably... this means for high balls i need to use a combination of wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to close the face... and this also means that my elbow maybe bent to make this wrist position more comfortable.

- do pros hit this way? maybe in some situations? I don't know and I don't really care... we are talking about recreational tennis 4.0-5.0 type stuff, nobody has footwork precise enough and adjustments like this will allow you to rip bhs from any position while not wasting a lot of energy moving around.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

ByeByePoly said:
Good post

"if you are rushed, the footwork pattern should be a right foot stab to the left while you swing forward... check all the pros how they return a wide serve to the bh side.. they all use the same footwork pattern."

Do you mean really wide serve? I started looking at pro 2hbh ros and the "go to" is open off wide leg (left for right hander). Out of curiosity, I also looked at 1hbh ros and was surprised how often they hit open 1hbh ros.

at 0:08 he made a right foot stab to the left... you can use this pattern if you are on the run for a wide ball.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Interesting. I'm sure it has to do with strength. In the video I actually have a straight arm when the racquet is back. However when I start to accelerate towards the ball my elbow bends, probably because I'm not strong enough to hold it straight through the rotation. Perhaps this will improve over time.

No wrist or elbow pain thus far, despite playing a lot recently. The only pain I had was at the very beginning when I tried to do it with a continental grip McEnroe style. Fun for low, flat shots but seems like you have to contort your arm to get any topspin.

Now I'm using Eastern and it feels good. Topspin is automatic for well struck balls, no extra manipulation required.

don't HOLD it straight! you are gonna hurt yourself with a tennis elbow.

the 1hbh shot should have the hitting arm feel like a heavy wet noodle with complete relaxation from the shoulder to the finger tips... no arm manipulation what so ever... this is why I don't care of the arm is bent or straight... I have never checked if my own arm is bent or straight... I guess if the arm is relaxed the centrifugal force will make it straight.

ChaelAZ · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
You could also have the only 1hbh in your zip code

Well, stats be stats so at least not lying then!

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

ByeByePoly said:
I have a much older hip than you ... maybe this 2hbh thing was a bad idea to start at 57. So far feel no hip stress, but I am starting to hit a lot more open 2hbh.

Yea it's the open-stance 2hbh that caused it, especially when running for a wide ball. Make sure to do a lot of I.T.-band stretches.

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
bent arm is no big deal. don't worry about it.

ByeByePoly said:
Yep ... that was the one thing in his post I didn't agree with ... 1hbh just ain't right without straight arm at contact.

Here are the current top 50 ATP players with a 1HBH. All hit with straight arm at contact. It's not by accident

Fed (#3), Thiem (#7), Dimitrov (#9), Tsit (#16), Cecchinato (#19), Gasquet (#28), Shapo (#30), Kohlschreiber (#35), Lajović (#50).

Grigor+Dimitrov+Miami+Open+Day+8+iPg0X-19Ylul.jpg

2016+French+Open+Day+One+NyVhvQkmz-_l.jpg

Philipp+Kohlschreiber+2012+Australian+Open+y750Wk4tNkrl.jpg

Du+Lajovi+ATP+Argentina+Open+Day+4+4IT_DMZ-oYUl.jpg

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
at 0:08 he made a right foot stab to the left... you can use this pattern if you are on the run for a wide ball.

Oh .. you meant back, I was thinking wide. Got it.

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
don't HOLD it straight! you are gonna hurt yourself with a tennis elbow.

the 1hbh shot should have the hitting arm feel like a heavy wet noodle with complete relaxation from the shoulder to the finger tips... no arm manipulation what so ever... this is why I don't care of the arm is bent or straight... I have never checked if my own arm is bent or straight... I guess if the arm is relaxed the centrifugal force will make it straight.

But if the arm is bent at contact, when he has plenty of time to set up (such as in the video he posted), something is fundamentally wrong with the technical aspects of the shot...

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
don't HOLD it straight! you are gonna hurt yourself with a tennis elbow.

the 1hbh shot should have the hitting arm feel like a heavy wet noodle with complete relaxation from the shoulder to the finger tips... no arm manipulation what so ever... this is why I don't care of the arm is bent or straight... I have never checked if my own arm is bent or straight... I guess if the arm is relaxed the centrifugal force will make it straight.

Yea that makes sense. Dimitrov definitely has the noodle-arm until it's straight at impact.

In comparison, how would you explain a guy like Thiem? Is he just crazy strong?

RyanRF · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
But if the arm is bent at contact, when he has plenty of time to set up (such as in the video he posted), something is fundamentally wrong with the technical aspects of the shot...

My best guess is that contact is still slightly too close to me (since I'm used to the 2h). If I move the contact away an inch or two that should solve it right?

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Yea it's the open-stance 2hbh that caused it, especially when running for a wide ball. Make sure to do a lot of I.T.-band stretches.

No worries ... can't run wide. I mainly started hitting more open 2hbh because finally getting some ros reps. My go to singles 1hbh has always been the slice, so my really stretched bh will be 1hbh slice.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Here are the current top 50 ATP players with a 1HBH. All hit with straight arm at contact. It's not by accident

Fed (#3), Thiem (#7), Dimitrov (#9), Tsit (#16), Cecchinato (#19), Gasquet (#28), Shapo (#30), Kohlschreiber (#35), Lajović (#50).

6 pictures out of thousands of balls they hit each day? Tsit in that picture does not have a perfectly straight arm I guess?

the point is this is not something you need to think about or to force... relax the arm and the centrifugal force will make it straight as possible.. then there are times a bad bounce or a gust jams you and you have no room to straighten..

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Here are the current top 50 ATP players with a 1HBH. All hit with straight arm at contact. It's not by accident

Fed (#3), Thiem (#7), Dimitrov (#9), Tsit (#16), Cecchinato (#19), Gasquet (#28), Shapo (#30), Kohlschreiber (#35), Lajović (#50).

Remind me not to argue with you.

Hey ... that Greek dude had some flex.

Dou · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
But if the arm is bent at contact, when he has plenty of time to set up (such as in the video he posted), something is fundamentally wrong with the technical aspects of the shot...

oh that I agree... yes for your standard-issue shot, the arm should be straight due to centrifugal force.

Dragy · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
You could also have the only 1hbh in your zip code j/k

What you are saying about low balls makes a lot of sense. It feels really difficult to get under them with my current grip. Many low balls end up spinning into the base of the net. So a slight grip adjustment I'll try along with spine angle. One thing I'm noticing is that adjustments to face angle with 1hbh feels much more limited than with forehand or 2hbh. (i.e. adjusting for low balls on the forehand side is trivial enough to not require explanation)

For high balls I'll try to focus more on where my thumb is and using it to close the face.

These sound like good tips. I look forward to trying them out.

Another working option for low balls is combining getting lower on legs with tilting your torso towards the ball (though better not to get over the ball, keep range) and then swing outwards. Think banana shot. This allows to lower the contact point without closing racquet face.
On high balls, stay more upright and swing across, let the racquet head get higher than handle for contact (just a bit, actually). Same effect - higher contact without opening racquet face. Both cases impart some sidespin to the ball, but that’s not a problem once you understand how it works.

ByeByePoly said:
"However when I start to accelerate towards the ball my elbow bends, probably because I'm not strong enough to hold it straight through the rotation."

Nah ... that seems backwards. The natural state for the propelled arm should be straight. I go from bent to straight, and not a strength thing. I hit cont, and you are right about bh e being easier for topspin. The pros of cont are flattish drives, low balls, same grip for drives, slice, drop shot, volleys. Guess which dom hand 2hbh grip I picked. Cont ... I love me some bh continental grip.

That’s a good point about propelled arm. Actually when one swings U-shape and adds torso rotation for parametric acceleration as mentioned by @Dou it works, like for pros. If one tries to do something like “pushing with chest”, the thing @Chas Tennis manages to see in videos, it makes arm bend and needs resistance.

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

Dou said:
oh that I agree... yes for your standard-issue shot, the arm should be straight due to centrifugal force.

OK, now we agree

You had originally dismissed it as "no big deal" which I think sends the wrong message to the OP...

IowaGuy · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
My best guess is that contact is still slightly too close to me (since I'm used to the 2h). If I move the contact away an inch or two that should solve it right?

I can't tell from the video you posted where your contact point is.

Experiment with your contact point to see if that helps straighten your elbow. As others mentioned, the straightening should come naturally from the shot and is not something that you force.

Contact should be well out in front of you for topspin 1HBH. A little more out in front than what you might be used to with your 2HBH...

ByeByePoly · Oct 16, 2018

RyanRF said:
Yea that makes sense. Dimitrov definitely has the noodle-arm until it's straight at impact.

In comparison, how would you explain a guy like Thiem? Is he just crazy strong?

Dimitrov from 00:33 - 00:40 is a good example of the vertical racquet and then drop behind the back. Not required, but I would suggest at least trying it since you are setting your muscle memory.

I would describe the 1hbh different than relaxed noodle arm. I think you pull with your right side (back) and turn with core (no arming) at start of shoulder turn uncoil ... and then actively use your arm into contact (that's when we get the big rhs).

Edit: you already know about active arm rhs boost into contact from your left arm action in your 2hbh. By contact, you were hitting with that left arm.

ChaelAZ · Oct 16, 2018

I'd love to see a series of shots on that backhand wing using variety of balls (high, low, etc). Easier to see the consistent issues then.

Chas Tennis · Oct 16, 2018

IowaGuy said:
Here are the current top 50 ATP players with a 1HBH. All hit with straight arm at contact. It's not by accident

Fed (#3), Thiem (#7), Dimitrov (#9), Tsit (#16), Cecchinato (#19), Gasquet (#28), Shapo (#30), Kohlschreiber (#35), Lajović (#50).

Those all have extended wrists also. Dimitrov sometimes has a flexed wrist. Look up pictures and do your own stats.

Knudson had publications that said the flexed wrist might be associated with Tennis Elbow. A flexed wrist tends to lengthen the muscle tendons that get TE. In his reference book on tennis he elaborated on the added strength of the extended wrist.

More recently Knudson published some positive comments on a publication that said that off-center hits were associated with TE.

I want to copy the backhand technique of Wawrinka, Gasquet and Justine Henin and also to hold an extended wrist. I'm sure my centering is not good. No TE.

Above is a summary of about the best information I have seen on the cause of tennis elbow. I wish that there was more to say.

But stop immediately if injured as stressing torn tendons as they try to heal is likely to lead to defective healing of tendon tissue. And in a very short time. Permanent, defectively healed tendon .... See publications in thread Tendon Injury Nuthouse.

RyanRF · Oct 17, 2018

Hit some balls yesterday. Definitely did better with the high balls by focusing on using my thumb to close the racquet face. Didn't get to practice many low balls.

Against fast body serves, is it normal to hit the backhand as an open stance block, or is there a better way?

ChaelAZ · Oct 17, 2018

RyanRF said:
Against fast body serves, is it normal to hit the backhand as an open stance block, or is there a better way?

Depending on how well I am moving and hitting that day, some days I am able to step back and hit completely open with power and direction. Other days I am more than happy to block back with direction and get into the point. Then some days I end up having to slice most returns cuz timing is crap.

Dou · Oct 17, 2018

RyanRF said:
Hit some balls yesterday. Definitely did better with the high balls by focusing on using my thumb to close the racquet face. Didn't get to practice many low balls.

Against fast body serves, is it normal to hit the backhand as an open stance block, or is there a better way?

actually in that ATP 1hbh video there are some open stance blocks... also check my 1-thumb-15-min 1hbh thread where the focus is really on the hand (or just that thumb)... nothing else really matters, the rest of the body is just the slave to serve the master, that 1 thumb pushing the handle... which means in different situations your body will do whatever necessary so the master can do the push... even in rallys there are plenty of situations where you won't have time to hit the standard step-in shot and you have to do it open stance.

just a side note as you mentioned serve return... that is 1 situation that the shot will look different from the rally shots because the ball comes too fast, and you basically lock the wrist and provide a wall for the ball to bounce off of.

ByeByePoly · Oct 17, 2018

RyanRF said:
Hit some balls yesterday. Definitely did better with the high balls by focusing on using my thumb to close the racquet face. Didn't get to practice many low balls.

Against fast body serves, is it normal to hit the backhand as an open stance block, or is there a better way?

It is for Fed ... google for Fed match play and watch ros ... he hits a lot of 1hbh ros open. The only three players that hit open 1hbh rally balls are @ChaelAZ , @Shroud and Dimitrov.

Shroud · Oct 17, 2018

RyanRF said:
Hit some balls yesterday. Definitely did better with the high balls by focusing on using my thumb to close the racquet face. Didn't get to practice many low balls.

Against fast body serves, is it normal to hit the backhand as an open stance block, or is there a better way?

For me, and no clue what this thumb stuff is as I just use a Sw fh grip, yes openstance block is the way to go

Shroud · Oct 17, 2018

ByeByePoly said:
It is for Fed ... google for Fed match play and watch ros ... he hits a lot of 1hbh ros open. The only three players that hit open 1hbh rally balls are @ChaelAZ , @Shroud and Dimitrov.

Finally in great company.

Fwiw i hit closed stance rally balls but yeah had a whole vid of openstance rally balls. Think there could be a revolution there but not the guy to lead it

ByeByePoly · Oct 17, 2018

Shroud said:
Finally in great company.

Fwiw i hit closed stance rally balls but yeah had a whole vid of openstance rally balls. Think there could be a revolution there but not the guy to lead it

I listed the only three on the planet. Hang with Dimitrov leading it ... he gets the babes.

Dou · Oct 17, 2018

Chas Tennis said:
Those all have extended wrists also. Dimitrov sometimes has a flexed wrist. Look up pictures and do your own stats.

Knudson had publications that said the flexed wrist might be associated with Tennis Elbow. A flexed wrist tends to lengthen the muscle tendons that get TE. In his reference book on tennis he elaborated on the added strength of the extended wrist.

More recently Knudson published some positive comments on a publication that said that off-center hits were associated with TE.

I want to copy the backhand technique of Wawrinka, Gasquet and Justine Henin and also to hold an extended wrist. I'm sure my centering is not good. No TE.

Above is a summary of about the best information I have seen on the cause of tennis elbow. I wish that there was more to say.

But stop immediately if injured as stressing torn tendons as they try to heal is likely to lead to defective healing of tendon tissue. And in a very short time. Permanent, defectively healed tendon .... See publications in thread Tendon Injury Nuthouse.

these pictures are too small of a sample.... on lower balls yes at impact the wrist looks 'extended'... but they are probably just neutral, but look extended because the hand grabbing the racket.

bottomline is the wrist is relaxed, it will do whatever it wants to do... there is no 'forcing' to make it extended or flexed.

ChaelAZ · Oct 17, 2018

Shroud said:
Finally in great company.

Fwiw i hit closed stance rally balls but yeah had a whole vid of openstance rally balls. Think there could be a revolution there but not the guy to lead it

Same.

Chas Tennis · Oct 17, 2018

Dou said:
these pictures are too small of a sample.... on lower balls yes at impact the wrist looks 'extended'... but they are probably just neutral, but look extended because the hand grabbing the racket.

bottomline is the wrist is relaxed, it will do whatever it wants to do... there is no 'forcing' to make it extended or flexed.

Google: backhand impact close up pictures
or similar terms and you will find lots of pictures in a minute.

First Google: wrist extension pictures
Double check that you know what wrist joint extension looks like. Get several pictures as the internet has too much false copy & paste.

Everybody can do stats as I have done. Wrist extended, wrist neutral, wrist flexed. % each. Count 10-20 or as long as you like. You can read Knudson's publications and his book.

Be very skeptical and questioning of the tennis information that you hear presented with confidence but no evidence..........

How do you know that the wrist is "relaxed"? I am certain of the positions in videos but can't see the muscle forces.

Dou · Oct 17, 2018

Chas Tennis said:
Google: backhand impact close up pictures
or similar terms and you will find lots of pictures.

First Google: wrist extension pictures
Double check that you know what wrist joint extension looks like. Get several pictures as the internet has too much false copy & paste.

Everybody can do stats as I have done. Wrist extended, wrist neutral, wrist flexed. % each. Count 10-20 or as long as you like. You can read Knudson's publications and his book.

Be very skeptical and questioning of the tennis information that you hear presented with confidence but no evidence..........

I know what the terminology means.... but - just experiment in your living room - you extend the wrist you open up the face... the shot is dead right there.

bottom line is the wrist is relaxed... you don't try to do anything with it, extend/flex whatever... the whole thing is a moot point.

check my 1-thumb-15min thread.... once you get familiar with this concept, you won't care about the wrist position either.

Chas Tennis · Oct 17, 2018

Dou said:
I know what the terminology means.... but - just experiment in your living room - you extend the wrist you open up the face... the shot is dead right there.
........................................

I see in pictures and high speed videos a high percentage of high level one hand backhands with extended wrists at impact, just like the pictures presented in post #21.

What percentage do you see?

FiReFTW · Oct 17, 2018

my 5 cents

-Not using ur legs and hips to initiate the swing
-Not rotating upper body enough
-Bent arm at contact
-No extension of back arm for counterbalance

Other than that it looks pretty solid to me

Dragy · Oct 17, 2018

Chas Tennis said:
I see in pictures and high speed videos a high percentage of high level one hand backhands with extended wrists at impact, just like the pictures presented in post #21.

What percentage do you see?

Your pictures maybe show “just extended” wrists, in a way that neutral is single strict position. But actually they are all closer to neutral or halfway to fully extended. Fully extended wrist makes ~90deg with the forearm.

leojramirez · Oct 18, 2018

To be honest if you can hit that shot consistently I don't see any problems with it, some minor fixes that have been mentioned but that can be implemented with time. What does it look like on the low and high balls?

New one-handed backhand [video]. Looking for feedback.

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