FEDERER’s historic age related H-H disadvantage

Most players wind up having their biggest H-H battles against players within 2 years their age. Obviously, earlier success as a teen and then not being able to stay on tour past 30 will mean fewer matches against younger players, but Federer has played the most matches against two players 5 and 6 years younger than he.

—49 semis, 59 Finals against Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Del Potro, and Murray;
—50 Finals against Rafa, Nole, Murray
—16 slam finals, 17 slam SFs, 9 QFs

He had already played 27 matches vs. Djokovic before at 30 years or younger and 28 vs. Nadal.

The only player who comes close is Connors who played his most H-H matches at even greater age disadvantage than Federer has, but also played them fewer times when older as an actual slam contender.

Given historical precedence, Federer should have won a lot less than he has but has wound up battling against a generation younger of players 5-6 years younger than he.

Roger Federer (born 1981)

Most matches played against:
  • Djokovic, 47, born 1987, opponent 6 years younger
  • Nadal, 38, born 1986, opponent 5 years younger
  • Berdych, 26, born 1985, opponent 4 years younger
  • Hewitt, 26, born 1981, same age
  • Del Potro, 25, born 1988, opponent 7 years years younger
  • Murray, 25, born 1987, opponent 6 years younger
49 semis, 59 Finals against Djokovic, Nadal, Berdych, Del Potro, and Murray;
50 Finals against Rafa, Nole, Murray
16 slam finals, 17 slam SFs, 9 QFs
27 matches vs. Djokovic before at 30 years or younger, 28 vs. Adan.

Rafael Nadal (born 1986)

Most matches played against:
  • Djokovic, 53, born 1987, opponent 1 year younger
  • Federer, 38, born 1981, opponent 5 years older
  • Ferrer, 31, born 1982, opponent 4 years older
  • Berdych, 24, born 1985, opponent 1year younger
  • Murray, 24, born 1987, opponent 1 year younger

Novak Djokovic (born 1987)

Most matches played against:
  • Nadal, 53, born 1986, opponent 1 years older
  • Federer, 47, born 1981, opponent 6years older
  • Murray, 36, opponent same age
  • Berdych, 26, born 1985, opponent 2 years older
  • Wawrinka, 25, born 1985, opponent 2years older

Pete Sampras (born 1971)

Most matches played against:
  • Agassi, 33, born 1970, opponent 1 years older
  • Todd Martin, 22, born 1970, opponent 1 year older
  • Chang, 20, born 1972, opponent 1 year younger
  • Courier, 20, born 1970, opponent 1 years older
  • Becker, 19, born 1967, opponent 4 years older
Bjorn Borg (born 1956)

Most matches played against:
  • Connors, 23, born 1952, opponent 4 years older
  • Vilas, 22, born 1952, opponent 4 years older
  • Gerulitis, 14, born 1954, opponent 2years older
  • Panatta, 16, born 1950, opponent 6 years older
  • Orantes, 16, born 1949, opponent 7 years older
Andre Agassi (born 1970)

Most matches played against:
  • Sampras, 33, born 1971, opponent 1 years younger
  • Chang, 22, born 1972, opponent 2 years younger
  • Todd Martin, 18, born 1970, opponent same age
  • Rafter, 15, born 1972, opponent 2 years younger
  • Jan Michael Gambill, 13, born 1977, opponent 7 years younger
  • Becker, 13, born 1967, opponent 3 years older
Ivan Lendl (born 1960)

Most matches played against:
  • McEnroe, 36, born 1959, opponent 1 years younger
  • Connors, 35, born 1952, opponent 8 years older
  • Edberg, 25, born 1966, opponent 7 years younger
  • Wilander, 22, born 1964, opponent 4 years younger
  • Becker, 20, born 1967, opponent 7 years younger
John McEnroe(born 1959)

Most matches played against:
  • Lendl, 36, born 1960, opponent 1 years younger
  • Connors, 34, born 1952, opponent 7 years older
  • Kriek, 17, born 1958, opponent 1 years older
  • Gerulitis, 14, born 1954, opponent 5 years older
  • Borg, 14, born 1956, opponent 4 years older
Jimmy Connors (born 1952)

Most matches played against:
  • Lendl, 35, born 1960, opponent 8 years younger
  • McEnroe, 34, born 1959, opponent 7 years younger
  • Nastase, 24, born 1946, opponent 6 years older
  • Borg, 23, born 1956, opponent 4 years younger
  • Tanner, 21, born 1951, opponent 1 years older
8 slam Finals, 17 slam SFs

Mats Wilander (born 1964)

Most matches played against:
  • Lendl, 22, born 1960, opponent 4 years older
  • Edberg, 20, born 1966, opponent 2 years older
  • Chang, 21, born 1972, opponent 8 years younger
  • Leconte, 13, born 1963, opponent 1 years older
  • Nystrom, 13, born 1963, opponent 1 years older
  • McEnroe, 13, born 1959, opponent 5 years older

Boris Becker (born 1967)

Most matches played against:
  • Edberg, 35, born 1966, opponent 1 years older
  • Lendl, 20, born 1960, opponent 7 years older
  • Ivanisevic, 19, born 1971, opponent 4 years younger
  • Sampras, 19, born 1971, opponent 4 years younger
  • Agassi, 13, born 1971, opponent 3 years younger
  • Forget, 13, born 1965, opponent 2 years older
Stefan Edberg (born 1966)

Most matches played against:
  • Becker, 35, born 1967, opponent 1 years younger
  • Lendl, 25, born 1960, opponent 6 years older
  • Chang, 21, born 1972, opponent 6 years younger
  • Wilander, 20, born 1964, opponent 2 years older
  • Ivanisevic, 19, born 1971, opponent 5 years younger
  • Gilbert, 19, born 1961, opponent 5 years older



.
 
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alexio

G.O.A.T.
Havent you heard? Age is irrelevant.

For example; remember when Lendl finally peaked and went from 5-12 to 17-0 vs Connors. Age had absolutely nothing to do with that, just the evolution of the game.
a bad dancer is impeded even by his own balls
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
What happened to the players from Federer's own generation?

Injuries. Hewitt, Safin, Nalbandian, Blake, Davydenko... (though Nalbo and Blake had already slid down to around #15 pre-injury, inconsistent beasties) Only Roddick could just get worn down gradually.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Mats Wilander (born 1964)
Most matches played against:
  • Lendl, 22, born 1960, opponent 4 years older
  • Edberg, 20, born 1966, opponent 2 years older
  • Chang, 21, born 1972, opponent 6 years younger :unsure:
  • Leconte, 13, born 1963, opponent 1 years older
  • Nystrom, 13, born 1963, opponent 1 years older
  • McEnroe, 13, born 1959, opponent 5 years older
but... great post/idea ;)
 
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lud

Hall of Fame
Novak Djokovic (born 1987)

Most matches played against:
  • Nadal, 53, born 1986, opponent 1 years older
  • Federer, 47, born 1981, opponent 6years older
  • Murray, 25, opponent same age
  • Berdych, 23, born 1985, opponent 2 years older
  • Wawrinka, 20, born 1985, opponent 2years older


.
ALL wrong.
Murray - 36
Berdych - 31
Wawrinka - 26
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
A 26-year old who is 5 times defending champion playing a 22-year old at Wimbledon on the 26-years old's best surface, is not a disadavantage for the 26-year old.
08 was a top win for Nadal vs a good Federer.

However he was at a disadvantage in those 2011-2016 slam matches vs them.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Age is just an excuse for Fed Fans. Fed reached back to back finals losing no sets in 2015. He himself said he is playing some of his best tennis ever. Djokovic and Nadal made him a better player. That showed clearly when Fed won 3 of 5 slams at age 36.

And i know I will get thanks for this post from ABCD, LEW, ND-16.
 
Age is just an excuse for Fed Fans. Fed reached back to back finals losing no sets in 2015. He himself said he is playing some of his best tennis ever. Djokovic and Nadal made him a better player. That showed clearly when Fed won 3 of 5 slams at age 36.

And i know I will get thanks for this post from ABCD, LEW, ND-16.

There are also around 10 "new user"s and "Rookie"s who would also like to thank you, along with the Nadal-Jangos and Spenser Bores of this world.

;)
 

Rogfan

Professional
Wow so Berdych is pretty much the man behind the big4 who plays the big3 most. I know he has lost a lot but you gotta be really good to come to them in the first place. Bravo Birdman! Born in the wrong time unfortunately
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Nobody is forcing Fed to stick around and play

When you are one of the oldest active players, it stands to reason that your match count against younger foes will steadily increase.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
But do the people that write BS about him realise that?

:(
I don't know if they do. His fans will argue that everything he's doing at his age is only adding to his legacy. His detractors will say he's damaging his legacy whenever he loses to his rivals. The "correct" answer will depend on which camp you belong to.

Regardless, with each passing year, I'm growing more and more tired of seeing Fed still on tour. Why won't he retire? Is his greed so insatiable that he wants to milk every last bit of possible playing time he has?
 
I don't know if they do. His fans will argue that everything he's doing at his age is only adding to his legacy. His detractors will say he's damaging his legacy whenever he loses to his rivals. The "correct" answer will depend on which camp you belong to.

Regardless, with each passing year, I'm growing more and more tired of seeing Fed still on tour. Why won't he retire?

His detractors have no concept of what he is doing at this advanced age.

As for your question: he won a Major last year. Is it really so hard to imagine why he won't retire?

:cool:
 
I don't know if they do. His fans will argue that everything he's doing at his age is only adding to his legacy. His detractors will say he's damaging his legacy whenever he loses to his rivals. The "correct" answer will depend on which camp you belong to.

Regardless, with each passing year, I'm growing more and more tired of seeing Fed still on tour. Why won't he retire? Is his greed so insatiable that he wants to milk every last bit of possible playing time he has?
Federer is one of the best players in the world and he loves playing so why would he retire? Certainly not to appease those who grew tired of him playing.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer is one of the best players in the world and he loves playing so why would he retire? Certainly not to appease those who grew tired of him playing.
Does he love playing or does he love the money he gets (directly and indirectly) from still hanging around the tour?
 
Does he love playing or does he love the money he gets (directly and indirectly) from still hanging around the tour?
Probably both which is absolutely normal. If you're suggesting he's in it still only for money then you didn't watch many of Federer's recent matches (won't be a big surprise). His passion and desire to win can be easily read through his emotions on court.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Probably both which is absolutely normal. If you're suggesting he's in it still only for money then you didn't watch many of Federer's recent matches (won't be a big surprise). His passion and desire to win can be easily read through his emotions on court.
He obviously has a huge ego too and naturally hates losing.

Another factor is he loves being in the spotlight and basking in the adulation from his legion of worshipers
 
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KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I don't know if they do. His fans will argue that everything he's doing at his age is only adding to his legacy. His detractors will say he's damaging his legacy whenever he loses to his rivals. The "correct" answer will depend on which camp you belong to.

Regardless, with each passing year, I'm growing more and more tired of seeing Fed still on tour. Why won't he retire? Is his greed so insatiable that he wants to milk every last bit of possible playing time he has?
He doesn’t have to retire for anyone is he still enjoys the game. Millions and millions of fans love him so a minority of bitter haters aren’t relevant to him.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, tennis tournament directors and tennis marketers would surely agree with you.
You mean the entities responsible for this mess in the first place? They also only see dollar signs and of course Fed sells, so they do everything they can to help Fed
 
He obviously has a huge ego too and naturally hates losing.

Another factor is he loves being in the spotlight and basking in the adulation from legion of worshipers
Hating losing is not a bad thing when you are a competitive sportsman. And you can interpret a lot of players' emotional reactions as them just not wanting to lose, but something tells me it's only with Federer you're being so strict in your judgement.

Most extroverts like attention. Djokovic is actually a stark example of someone who enjoys being in the spotlight a lot. Do you think of him less because of that?
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Hating losing is not a bad thing when you are a competitive sportsman. And you can interpret a lot of players' emotional reactions as them just not wanting to lose, but something tells me it's only with Federer you're being so strict in your judgement.
I agree; hating to lose is not a bad thing in an of itself. But in Fed it's obviously due to his huge, overinflated ego

Most extroverts like attention. Djokovic is actually a stark example of someone who enjoys being in the spotlight a lot. Do you think of him less because of that?
I wouldn't consider Fed an extrovert at all. And yes, I think less of Djokovic when he actively seeks the spotlight or the attention of the crowds.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Last 10 slam winners had an average age of 32 years and 8 months. Youngsters were totally destroyed.

Federer had he retired in 2013 at a much younger age, would not only have 3 less slams, but would also have a worse h2h against Big4: 35-48 (42.2%) instead of 51-59 (46.4%).
 
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jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Why?

What would improve as a result of that?

:cool:
Aren't you guys tired of the same old, same old? The guy has been on tour for 20+ years now. He's way past his expiration date. It's stale and boring to see him take the court

What's worse is we have short-sighted tournament directors and the powers that be keep milking the golden goose Fed in detriment of nurturing the next generation of stars
 
You have to be a complete imbecile to think his h2h against players a full generation younger that he has met a hundred times is important

If anything its rather notable he has a 5 match win streak over a supposed great 5 years his junior at his age
 
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