3 Potential Career Milestones...
- Thread starter CYGS
- Start date
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
Getting defaulted in more than half the slams in a single year? This one would be huge and pretty hard to top, too. 
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
yes Fed paid that USO linesman to use her Star Wars force to draw the Djokovic ball up towards her throat
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
it's more important that he takes the ye # 1 record and the weeks record. the two + slams record are the 3 most important. and if he wins RG (then he would have all the important tournaments at least 2 times) then he is well on his way to doing all this. if he has ye # 1 record, weeks record and all tournaments twice, along with positive h2h over fed and rafa, then he is already GOAT without a doubt (despite 2 less slams than fed).
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
That will have to wait until 2021, I'm afraid. With less than half the tournaments played in 2020, there won't be a year-end #1 this year.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
It won't really count though if Rafa is out of form, or if the weather and new balls make a big difference.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Wow you're already making excuses before the tournament even starts.
Anyway you don't reach slam finals when you're out of form.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Actually Nadal has won Roland Garros while out of form on more than one occasion.
I'm not making excuses. We all know that Nadal at his highest level on clay ends with 0 sets dropped in the tournament, so it's obvious that Djokovic will need Nadal's level to drop if he wants a small chance of beating him. Unless you want to pretend that Djokovic came somehow surpass Nadal in clay form NOW
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Nadal never lost in 12 finals, so beating him would be awesome, regardless of Nadal's form.Actually Nadal has won Roland Garros while out of form on more than one occasion.
I'm not making excuses. We all know that Nadal at his highest level on clay ends with 0 sets dropped in the tournament, so it's obvious that Djokovic will need Nadal's level to drop if he wants a small chance of beating him. Unless you want to pretend that Djokovic came somehow surpass Nadal in clay form NOW
Tennis_Freak99
Legend
Barring an injury, not being able to bring your 'best form' is the players fault, it can happen when you play an opponent of great calibre.
Weather situation is equal for both players, and no tournament change their balls in the middle of the run. So a victory in such case is well deserved.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
True, it would be a great achievement. But, let's say Djokovic defeats Nadal this season, which is obviously pretty unlikely. Do you think people would ever claim that Djokovic beat Nadal at his clay peak? The obvious answer is no. So, the point I'm making is, Djokovic's chance to ever hold a top "I beat Nadal at Roland Garros" card probably expired in 2017. It's unlikely we will ever see a true peak Nadal on clay again. I hope we do, because it's an awesome sight, but we'll probably have to settle for an 8.5/10 Nadal winning the title instead, because players generally don't get better with age.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
What I'm hearing is "Nadal in form can't lose to Djokovic at RG, so by definition Djokovic can never beat in-form Nadal at RG."Actually Nadal has won Roland Garros while out of form on more than one occasion.
I'm not making excuses. We all know that Nadal at his highest level on clay ends with 0 sets dropped in the tournament, so it's obvious that Djokovic will need Nadal's level to drop if he wants a small chance of beating him. Unless you want to pretend that Djokovic came somehow surpass Nadal in clay form NOW
It's the classic excuse of "X would have never found themselves in that situation if Y" a la 2019 AO. If Nadal had steamrolled Djokovic in that final, people would have claimed Nadal was at his best. But since the opposite happened, Nadal was apparently injured or something despite crushing everyone leading up to the final even more than Djokovic did.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Ask yourself, why do you think 95% of the public wouldn't vote on Djokovic vs. 2005/2006 Federer at Wimbledon? He has the 3-1 record against him in finals, right?
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Excuses. Nadal won last 3 RGs dropping a total of 4 sets.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
I agree that Nadal isn't at his best on clay right now. That isn't because he's not playing as great as he could be, it's because he's 34. Obviously even if Djokovic managed to beat Nadal at RG this year, it wouldn't mean he could take him in 2018, let alone 2008.
The idea though, is you can't define a player's form by how well they perform in a match against the player that you're claiming form against. That's not right. If Rafa wins all his sets at RG this year 6-0 until the final where Novak beats him in triple bagels, it doesn't mean Djokovic could have beaten 08 Rafa, but it still means he beat an in-form Rafa.
Nadal can be in form and still lose on clay. Is it likely? Hell no, but the other player can somehow pull out a victory. Will it be the same as beating the best version of Nadal? Obviously not. Will it still be a good achievement? Of course. 3-0 in Wimby finals against Federer is still 3-0 against the grass GOAT.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair enough.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Well we will see what happens and what kind of form both players are in. I kind of envy Djokovic fans going into this tournament, as Djokovic has nothing to lose. 1-6 vs. 1-7 for Djokovic vs. Nadal at Roland Garros, really doesn't make much difference, even if Nadal moves to 20 slams, that is already a bar Djokovic has to clear anyway. However, a victory for Djokovic, would probably be the best win of his career.
then why do you keep counting and making a difference between finals won vs Big 3 and finals won vs someone else?
and actually blaming the winner if the Big 3 collapsed before the final?
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
You're so bad at logic, and good at stalking
and I thought that with more years of training and match experience they get better.
I just couldn't understand why they retire...
also @Lew II has a bunch of threads where he or she argues about Big 3 being at their peak, including Fed at 37 / 38 years old.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
oh really?
I told you many times that by definition the player who reached SF or Final, winning 5 or 6 matches for that, can't be considered a weak opponent.
and what do you answer?
oh, my favorite player defeated an old man, so this win counts as legit, while Roger defeating someone not called Djokodal means 2003 - 2007 was weak era
are you sure that I am bad at logic?
if so, why do you use the argument I've been throwing at you countless times?
it will be
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Battle For London
| Rank | Player | Points |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Novak Djokovic Seeks 6th London title, 6th year-end No. 1 | 10,860 |
| 2 | Rafael Nadal Chasing 6th year-end No. 1 finish | 9,850 |
and for the sake of truth 4 out of 5 biggest tournaments and more than half tournaments will be played.
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merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
LOL! So they're officially counting the points won in 2019 to decide who is going to be be year-end #1 for 2020? Way to let everyone know that this is just a charade so they can push their 'record-chasing' narrative.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Form can change from match to match. Also, there is a big difference between winning and playing well. Nadal didn't play well by any means in RG 2014, even though he won it.
The conditions are the same for everyone, so IF Novak was to win the FO and beat Nadal as well, his win would be legitimate.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe different players prefer different conditions? Otherwise why would Federer and Djokovic fans complain so much about RG being played on clay? After all, conditions are the same for everyone, no? Nadal also plays it on clay.
you do understand how utterly stupid is to complain that a certain tournament is played on clay?
especially that in case of French Open the first edition of the tournament was played in 1891 and since 1928 it is being played on stadium Roland Garros, clay courts.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree that the normal time the FO is played, the conditions are the same for everyone and there are no excuses for players incapable of beating Nadal there. Fact is, Nadal is the greatest clay court player of the last 20 years, probably of all time.
LOL! So they're officially counting the points won in 2019 to decide who is going to be be year-end #1 for 2020? Way to let everyone know that this is just a charade so they can push their 'record-chasing' narrative.
and this benefits most rafa not nole!
1 Novak Djokovic 10,860
2 Rafael Nadal 9,8503
but 2020 points are:
1 nole 4,165
.
.
.
.
rafa 1,260
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
This is completely crazy, tbh. I think they'll change this in the next couple of months. Imagine Nadal losing early in Rome and RG, he would almost end up 2020 #1 while doing absolutely nothing all year.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
He can only equal the WTF record this year. Still, I think this is probably his best shot out of these three, in 2020.
CYGS
Legend
Rome and Paris, so 2?
This is completely crazy, tbh. I think they'll change this in the next couple of months. Imagine Nadal losing early in Rome and RG, he would almost end up 2020 #1 while doing absolutely nothing all year.
I agree to some extent. probably they should only count points from this year or points from this year + the tournaments from the previous year that are not played this year. to count better results of tournaments played both years does not actually feel correct. but it is done to help rafa (who was last year no 1) and fed (who will not play at all but still keep the ranking and points) who would fall down sharply on the list. nole already had the perfect start before the corona break and great lead in the race. and along with the freezing of the rankings they have hurt him the most. otherwise he would in 2 weeks go for the feds week record, if the points dropped and they continued to count as usual.
Feather
Legend
Not just Rafa, I don't think he will beat Dominic Thiem too! If he barely won against Dominic at his favorite slam this year, then it's highly unlikely that he will beat him at RG
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
Yes and no. This is also a huge help to Djokovic, it would be disingenuous to even suggest the opposite. This allows him to keep a ton of points from last year (ie more than 6,000--only Nadal benefits more than him) and basically guaranteed he would keep the #1 spot from when the Tour stopped in March to the AO 2021 at least (the only way this doesn't happen is basically if Thiem goes on an absolute tear until the end of the year, and even that may not be enough with Novak having all this padding from last year).
Also, this year is so weak in points with so few tournaments played that the #1 spot may get decided at aroung 5,000-6,000 pts. Should that be the case, the ATP Cup, a team competition, will be awfully inflated compared to what it should have been point-wise. At the moment, this counts for 15% of all points scored by Djokovic for the year, which is just insane. Imagine Davis Cup awarding 1,500 to 2,000 points to the winners in years past, lol.
CYGS
Legend
While conveniently ignoring that Djokovic got robbed many weeks of #1 that belong to him anyway and he would more likely than not win more points than the rest of the field during that period.
Yugram
Legend
3 sets
it's not true. it has hurt nole most of all players! first they removed 22 weeks which he would in all probability already have had. then nole's perfect start of this year and his 3165p will be counted in just half a year that he can benefit from it. at the same time, for example, rafas USO is counted for a year and a half even though he did not even play USO this year. and rafa and no one else is the biggest threat to nole.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
When you're one of the Big 3 who wins 17+ Slams, it's possible. We have RG 2008, W 2013, and AO 2019 as proof.Wow you're already making excuses before the tournament even starts.
Anyway you don't reach slam finals when you're out of form.
What is the rationale to count points from 19 to determine the YE#1 of 2020?
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
You're totally right that he lost quite a few weeks as #1, I was thinking more mid-term (ie end of the year/beginning of 2021). So, yes, this part was clearly to his detriment. However, he also benefits from Wimbledon on, and big time, too.
(And actually, I think that Nadal may not be the biggest threat to him now. Let's wait and see, but from 2021 on, the biggest threat might very well be Thiem...)
as I have already said. best would be to count only points from this year. but in this way the fed would have fallen to about 80th place by the end of the year with a high risk of going below the top 100 after AO 2021. and rafa would be out of the competition for no1. I can see some logic in counting points for tournaments that are not played this year. but as they have done is only to help fed and rafa.
