Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Didn't you get the memo?
I did, and it was dated 2013. lol
Federer can win 21 at W
- Thread starter Beckerserve
- Start date
I did, and it was dated 2013. lol
Hitman
Bionic Poster
LOL - You could fit the Vietnam war in between that time and now.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Apparently it is still in effect.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
That is what i've been reading in every other thread these days.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Right on.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
I see.
Yes, the narrative persists--Nadal is untouchable, on hard courts, especially by Fed, his eternal pigeon.
To give some perspective, we are closer to the ten-year anniversary of the end of Fed's pigeonhood, than we are to the actual end of his pigeonhood.
Beckerserve
Legend
He is mentally tougher than Djokovic. He did not choke in 2019. He was tired after Nadal match and a step slow. Djokovic in FO2020 proved when pressure is on for history he crumbles. Federer has nothing to prove. Djokovic does. That changesnthings for me
Hitman
Bionic Poster
What?
Beckerserve
Legend
Yes i am. Always bet on big sporting events. Makes it more interesting dont u think?
Biotic
Hall of Fame
This time around it is about Djokovic and 1-2 USO h2h, and 4 USOs that makes Nadal the HC GOAT.
It's surprising tho that they dropped grass superiority narrative.
Omega_7000
Legend
No chance in hell....Hes getting fit enough for a farewell tour around the world
Beckerserve
Legend
20-18. Check the win loss ratio of Major finals won and lost. Dont think Federer has a losing record outside Paris.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Djokovic beat Federer at W 2019 because he was mentally tougher, that was a massive choke from Federer.
Beckerserve
Legend
No. Federer was tired. And anyway one match does not mean someone is a choker. Look at the respective careers. Federer conversion rate in Major finals is better.
I have seen the nickname Chokervic labelled on Djokovic a number of times. Federer at 38 took prime Djokovic to the brink in 2019. That enhances the Federer legend.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
No tired player can play at the level he played taking it to 12-12 fifth set tie break. He choked that match, every tie break he tightened up, while Djokovic knuckled down and refused to miss. Also, Djokovic was fighting a very pro-Federer crowd who were willing him to lose.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Definitely yeah, I’ve found tennis can be very profitable if you find value.
to give you an example, I think Thiem was 3/1 to defeat Nadal in 2019 AO. Personally I had them about 50/50, very close to call. Bet 100 to win 400 there.
Obviously bookies win, but sometimes they get odds wrong.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Sorry but fed is easily the weakest mentally out the big 3. In the pressure situations he choked it’s simple. Just like he did many times to Nadal in the past.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I agree, Djokovic played amazing tennis in the 4 consecutive points he won to break Federer.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sweeping 2012-2014 for Novak under the rug, I see.
Beckerserve
Legend
Im not sure we can say that in his peak. 5 USOs in a row is a bit special
Beckerserve
Legend
It was not a hostile crowd at all. Wimbledon crowds are the epitome of genteel and polite. He was tired. He did not choke.
Choking is being unable to play at a normal level. Djokovic has done this loads of times in Major finals. Federer and Nadal i can remember one time each.
Ask the players how they define a choke.
Beckerserve
Legend
That thiem bet was a good bet and great odds as i had Thiem winning that match.
Ill tell you a real outside bet worth maybe a 100 on. Sinner at FO.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
True. I agree in his peak he didn’t. He was mentally tough there. However, out of the 3 he’s lost the most 5 set matches. I guess some of that can be attributed to his lack of stamina compared to big 2 as well as mental strength in key moments. Federer seemed to win his matches more in straight sets or 4 though. He struggled more in 5 set battles but did win a crucial one against nadal in AO 2017 final.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah true. They were years where Novak did choke a lot I agree. I just think in the very close matches and in the big points situation Fed has got the most nervous out of the big 3.
Beckerserve
Legend
What are the Major finals won/lost of the three and Sampras and Borg?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
They all had periods when they underperformed.
And it really depends on the angle in which you look at things: where Fed underperformed under pressure in 2008-2009 against Rafa, Nadal instead lost comfortably in 2011 against Novak. Is the latter really better than the former?
slipgrip93
Professional
I really want Fed to edge out 21 at Wimbledon, even the dream of going further. But I'm worried about the reality. He seems to have his own bad luck with screwups like the 40-15
and "unknown" injuries, like in USO 2019 that he doesn't bother to detail the injuries ending his run, to the public during or after a tournament.
and "unknown" injuries, like in USO 2019 that he doesn't bother to detail the injuries ending his run, to the public during or after a tournament.
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Hitman
Bionic Poster
It was trashy crowd and they got what they deserved at the end, hold nothing against Fed on that though.
Ah no, choking cannot be quantified in just one way, choking can also be playing freely and within yourself for most of the match, and then tightening up to such a level that you impair your own ability to keep the ball in play in simple rally stroke during very key points in the match, such as BPs, SPs and tie breaks. Federer tightened up in each of the three tie breaks, that looks like a choke to me.
And yes, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic have all done it in slam finals.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Not sure off the top of my head. It’s true they have all had their choking moments though. I agree us open has been the slam where Novak has choked the most for sure. Rafa worst tournament is Australia for choking. Federer started pretty perfect at australia, Wimbledon and us open winning many in a row. Until djokodal arrived and he lost a few big matches on the 3 different slams. It’s true they all had their moments though.
The same for Borg and Sampras although sampras was pretty clutch in finals for sure.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Sampras is 14 - 4 and Borg is 11 - 5
Pete's losses include 3 at USO, 92 to Edberg, 00 to Safin, 01 to Hewitt, and AO 95 to Agassi
Borg has 4 loses at USO, two to Connor and two to McEnroe, he also lost W 81 to Mac too. Mac was 3-1 in slam finals against Borg.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think he will now. I just don't trust Beckerserve's predictions lol
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I agree. As federer actually put up a better fight in the them matches and lost. That’s seen as better. I think what I’m trying to say like out of the big 3 if one is serving for match in a close 5 setter it’s most likely Fed who would choke it away out of the 3 of them. He’s had probably the most painful losses out of the big 3 and especially 3 of them to Novak with double match point 3 times not converted.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Thanks for the information. Very impressive numbers especially from Pete!
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Just added to the post so you can see what the loses were.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sampras's slam final record is definitely inflated.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
You reckon he’s jinxed him? Haha
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Because he lost early in slams more often?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
While Wimb 2019 was unacceptable, this loss came when he was 38. Had he retired way before that, it would have never happened.
USO 2011 was bad too, but this one and Wimb 2019 all happened in his 30's.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Because he never reached a FO final and didn't play past 31.
If Fed was as good as Sampras on clay and had his longevity, his GS final tally would have been 16-2. Best tally ever.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Interesting that the us open seems to be a popular slam for choking in finals from the legends off the game. Sampras and Borg suffered similar to djoko here. Fed has had his choking moments too at us open. Nadal has certainly been the most clutch at us open in terms of taking his opportunities when they came.
Mark-Touch
Legend
It's in the bag.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
With Sampras there is more to it. In 1992 Pete actually wasn't the super mental warrior that he would go onto become, back at W 92 Pete collapsed mentally completely against Ivanisevic in the semi final. The commentators basically said that Pete's mental focus and desire to fight has vanished as Goran rained down aces to which Pete had no answer. Pete went onto lose the 1992 final to Edberg who was defending his title from the year before, he lost in five sets, but Pete often says that loss was the best and most important thing that happened in his career....it basically made him evaluate if he wanted to go onto become not only great but greatest or was he going to let his mental demons and tendency to stop fighting in key moments define him. He shook his head and said to himself that he would never lose another slam final again.
1993 W comes around and Pete is a new man. From W 1993 all the way to W 2000 where Sampras broke the record, he lost only ONE slam final along the way. And that was the 95 AO to Agassi. He just refused to lose in finals and was hell bent on getting the slam record and becoming the greatest and it all started with that loss to Edberg. The USO 2000 and 2001 losses came after that, Safin played Godly in the first, in the second, Pete was mentally exhausted having had to go through the 97/98 champion Rafter in R4, the 94/99 champion Agassi in the quarters and the defending 00 champion Safin in the semis, mentally he was jaded by the final and the younger hungier Hewitt who was chomping on the bit was in the form of his life at that point, took him out.
Borg had issues playing in NYC, always hated it, he wasn't a fan of even the lights. He even once asked for the lights to be turned off during the night because it bothered him so much, and after every loss, he couldn't wait to get to the airport and take the flight back home the very day of the final. He simply didn't gel with the event, despite making four slam finals there and losing a few very competitive ones, such as the 1980 final to McEnroe which went the distance and was the rematch from the W 1980 classic.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
The truths are there - Federer is a superior grass court player and always has been. However, 2019 was Djokovic playing at his B game and Federer pulling off what was realistically as good as can be expected from him these days. Sure, Federer has his chances to beat Djokovic, but no way will it be a straight set beatdown, and it heavily relies on what condition Djokovic comes into the match in.
Realistically speaking, a Federer-Djokovic match at Wimbledon if both are playing decently should probably be a 4-set encounter for Novak at this stage in both their careers.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
yea, we just need to wait (it's good we still have some time for that) until threads about players who have at least a bery small chance of winning the tournament will be created, and then.. in this case an alien who has flowed to us from space will surely win the tournament obviously, it's only a pity that he will be so coolly disguised that even no one will have a hint of suspicion that something here is not entirely clean, coz the technologies of that civilization are so advanced in relation to what we have here, so this will be a deception of a universal scaleYou reckon he’s jinxed him? Haha
Jaitock1991
Hall of Fame
Even as a huge fan. That would be a SHOCK unlike anything seen in tennis. Ever. Impossible to know what to expect from him at this point. He may not even be close to the top 20 after more than a year off at 39.
Personally I'm just super keen to be able to watch him play again. Was thinking it wouldn't happen.
Personally I'm just super keen to be able to watch him play again. Was thinking it wouldn't happen.
AlexM
Rookie
N
NOPE. not gonna happen. I swear on my mother's life in Federer wins 2021 Wimbledon I will... post a thread about it
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
40/1, that would be £4000 return. Not sure I’m that big a gambler haha. Maybe worth a £10 or a couple of free bet.
He certainly had Nadal troubled for a couple of sets, would have been an interesting match if he managed to take that first set.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah that’s true. I agree that age went against him here a bit too.
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