What's wrong with my serve ?

N

Nosliw

New User
Hi everyone !

This is my first post here, was glad to see such a great community exists and hope to contribute as much as I can in the future.

I just turned 33, played quite a bit as a kid (from 7 to 14) then broke an arm in a car accident and never really got back to playing until few years ago. Trying to become more serious about it but past 2 years have been challenging with work and then COVID etc..

I am currently out of a job and hence will focus extensively on my tennis for the rest of the year. My goal is to be able to play competitions starting next year. I live in Hong Kong and its really hard to find quality coaches here (for a reasonable price) - so I am hoping you guys can help me !

First order of priority : My serve. I know something is wrong, as I don't feel like I am making good contact with the ball, I don't really feel as if I can give it all my power, but can't really figure out what's wrong with it. Any advice would be really appreciated !!

This is my first video, I realize quality is really bad, will need to get a new phone and maybe a tripod for next time.. I hope this is enough to get some of your experts tips.

Link to the video :

Thanks in advance !!

Pierre
 
M

mrmarble

Rookie
Nosliw said:
Hi everyone !

This is my first post here, was glad to see such a great community exists and hope to contribute as much as I can in the future.

I just turned 33, played quite a bit as a kid (from 7 to 14) then broke an arm in a car accident and never really got back to playing until few years ago. Trying to become more serious about it but past 2 years have been challenging with work and then COVID etc..

I am currently out of a job and hence will focus extensively on my tennis for the rest of the year. My goal is to be able to play competitions starting next year. I live in Hong Kong and its really hard to find quality coaches here (for a reasonable price) - so I am hoping you guys can help me !

First order of priority : My serve. I know something is wrong, as I don't feel like I am making good contact with the ball, I don't really feel as if I can give it all my power, but can't really figure out what's wrong with it. Any advice would be really appreciated !!

This is my first video, I realize quality is really bad, will need to get a new phone and maybe a tripod for next time.. I hope this is enough to get some of your experts tips.

Link to the video :

Thanks in advance !!

Pierre
Click to expand...
No offense but nothing wrong except a slow arm
Some people are just like that
Not much you can do about it
 
Mr.Lob

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
mrmarble said:
That’s so wrong. Drops to his butt level. Need to drop to his heels??
Click to expand...

Doesn't drop at all. His service motion is one continuous loop. He gets to the top of his serve, then starts to generate his power from there, which is way too late.
 
zill

zill

Legend
ballmachineguy said:
I see many problems I will list below:

1. Nothing
2. Nothing
3. Nothing
4. Maybe swing harder, bend the knees more
Click to expand...

Points 1, 2, 3 are reasons for point 4.

There is a (many actually) reason why he does not swing harder and also not bend the knees enough.

I believe if you find the right prep for your serve swinging fast should be a very natural thing with very little effort. But without the right prep it’s impossible!
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Nosliw said:
Hi everyone !

This is my first post here, was glad to see such a great community exists and hope to contribute as much as I can in the future.

I just turned 33, played quite a bit as a kid (from 7 to 14) then broke an arm in a car accident and never really got back to playing until few years ago. Trying to become more serious about it but past 2 years have been challenging with work and then COVID etc..

I am currently out of a job and hence will focus extensively on my tennis for the rest of the year. My goal is to be able to play competitions starting next year. I live in Hong Kong and its really hard to find quality coaches here (for a reasonable price) - so I am hoping you guys can help me !

First order of priority : My serve. I know something is wrong, as I don't feel like I am making good contact with the ball, I don't really feel as if I can give it all my power, but can't really figure out what's wrong with it. Any advice would be really appreciated !!

This is my first video, I realize quality is really bad, will need to get a new phone and maybe a tripod for next time.. I hope this is enough to get some of your experts tips.

Link to the video :

Thanks in advance !!

Pierre
Click to expand...
Ayy is that Quarry Bay Park? I play there in the evenings
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Drop is decent evidently:
hYRSJpl_d.webp


Overall motion looks good. I’d start seeking for issues with the rhythm: you possibly make your contact late against your exploding upwards. Try to not focus on jump, maybe even let the ball drop a bit more, but make contact as a completion of your upward swing, if that makes sense. Get rid of “launch, swing-aaaaand-hit”. Try to hit somewhere before upward swing ends… on the way up o_O

Sorry for that odd wording:X3:

PS really try some serves without leaving the ground and see if it feels better. That might clear things up.
 
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Wurm

Wurm

Professional
Step through the video (, and . keys), stop it at the moment of contact and have a look at your left leg in the midst of a ballet move. There's really not a lot wrong with what you're doing but that's the giveaway that something's amiss and your kinetic chain is breaking down before impact.

As to exactly why, I'm not sure yet. Hopefully someone better qualified will pin it down.
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Wurm said:
Step through the video (, and . keys), stop it at the moment of contact and have a look at your left leg in the midst of a ballet move. There's really not a lot wrong with what you're doing but that's the giveaway that something's amiss and your kinetic chain is breaking down before impact.

As to exactly why, I'm not sure yet. Hopefully someone better qualified will pin it down.
Click to expand...
That’s spot-on, and that’s timing again, I believe. @Nosliw is already preparing his landing while making contact. High level servers are rising to contact, and landing preparation starts after contact:
i
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Bienvenue, @Nosliw

Living in HK, huh? Have you considered playing badminton rather than tennis over there? Might be easier to find good or cheaper badm coaching. I did get an opportunity to play some badminton over there (quite a few years back). I also bought about a dozen badminton rackets over there -- mostly in Kowloon


As a lefty tennis server you might consider putting a premium on a lefty (topspin-slice) spin rather than massive power. However, for decent spin you will still need a pretty good amount of racket head speed (RHS).

If you are comfortable with more knee bend and greater leg drive, I would certainly suggest pursuing that. You appear to be jumping forward into the courts a fair amount but are not driving upward all that much. More knee bend at the trophy phase and a faster, more pronounced leg drive during the racket drop should help you tap into a greater RHS (for more spin or power) more readily. You should be able to achieve this improved RHS with less stress to the shoulder than w/o the leg drive.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@Nosliw

You might also consider modifying your serve shape & rhythm. Your left arm utilizes a very full loop to arrive at your trophy phase. Not always easy to employ this action without hitches or timing issues.

However, the greater problem might be the Down Together / Up Together rhythm of your serve. Because of this, you may be rushing to get your racket to the trophy phase. It's difficult to tell in this video, but there might be some "racket leak" in your motion. What I mean by this is that you might be rushing your racket to the point where you overshoot the trophy position & then slow down somewhat behind your head.

You might consider more of an abbreviated take back or a staggered rhythm. With an abbreviated motion, you can still use the low toss that you are using now. You might start with your arm and racket in a (palm down) "salute" position prior to tossing the ball. If you want to explore this, I will pass on a video that shows this "salute" approach.

With the staggered rhythm, you might need a slightly higher toss but it could produce even better results. With this rhythm the racket lags with respect to the tossing motion. The racket will still be in a somewhat down position when you are releasing the ball.

Using one of these altered rhythms, you can move through the trophy phase at a decent speed and continue to accelerate during the drop phase and upward swing. If you do this correctly you will not slow down at the trophy or a bit after the trophy (as you might be doing). Even if you are not actually slowing down with your current motion, you do not seem to be building up RHS at the right time.
 
F

Friedman Whip

Professional
You are taking a small (maybe 3-5 inches) step forward with your right foot during your swing. Although I'm sure that there some very fine players who do this, I believe that the overwhelming conventional wisdom is that the front foot (in your case your right foot) should not move forward like this.
 
Curtennis

Curtennis

Hall of Fame
Id think about following through a little harder. Racquet should finish across your body and try to land more in the court as if you’re gonna go for the S&V
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Your camera frame rate is too slow. The faster parts of the serve take 240 fps to see the details of the racket approaching impact.

Does your smartphone have a high speed video mode?

Compare side camera views at impact. Your head seems to be forward looking up. The head might appear there if kick serve but for flat and slice the body and arm should tilt forward and the racket should appear vertical from the side camera view, it's not vertical. It is OK to look at the ball during impact, some do, but the majority of ATP players break off looking just before impact.

Compare your serve to a high level serve, one above the other, and single frame in this post. To single frame on Youtube use the period & comma keys. Always select the video with the alt key plus the left mouse click, otherwise the video starts playing. Go to impacts and single frame back and forth. Most accurate comparisons involve the same camera angles (easiest to have a model server video and copy the camera angle). A crude way to compare is to assume all your serves are the same, all your positions are the same among your serves and compare many positions. Of course, that takes a lot of time and is subject to errors if the serves are not the 'same'. Record all the differences that you see and the times of those observations for your serve and the pro serve.

434069804_640.jpg

Reference (side camera view) Impact + racket angle + arm tilt + head orientation + body tilt

Note - Raonic often lands farther into the court than most and may have larger tilt. These angles vary among pro servers. Too straight up is a flaw.

Reference for angles. Note - angles vary, see ATP videos.

Tennis Serve - Forearm-Racket Angles for Flat, Slice & Kick Impacts??

Background. For the tennis serve consider the forearm-racket angle when the racket impacts the ball. The forearm-racket angle only at impact is of interest for this thread. The forearm-racket angle will vary a lot as seen from different camera views (see comment & demo at end). The...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com

Difference - See your impact frame at 7 sec. Your head seems forward of the the ball looking up. You are too upright compared to Raonic.

Examine pro serves from the side and for slice or flat serves note the position of impact, arm tilt, racket tilt, head position and whether looking up or head has tilted to look down & forward, body tilt.......... Also, camera from behind looking along the ball's trajectory (not viewing up court center line). Include seeing bounce.
 
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thomas daniels

thomas daniels

Semi-Pro
I'm in Japan,so if you stop through, look me up and as for as the serve goes, try these 2 things first...

Take a more deeper knee bend at the start of your motion and use your hip more with your upward motion, you have to generate more racket head speed before contact too and follow through with your motion, allowing your body to land more into the court.

Work on that for a month and let me know your results.

Since your motion is smooth, those two key point should help you develop a sonic serve in no time at all.
 
Wurm

Wurm

Professional
You should keep your tossing arm pointing up longer you are collapsing too early.
Click to expand...

I don't see anything wrong there.

I'd think about following through a little harder.
Click to expand...

If he could he would - "...don't really feel as if I can give it all my power, but can't really figure out what's wrong with it."

I'd like to see a video that's from behind but I've watched the video provided a few more times to try to get to grips with what's causing the back leg to be flung out so soon and I believe the issue is that the upper body is leading the rotation towards the ball instead of the other way round and the legs are just doing a straight jump up and into the court.

The kinetic chain functions like a whip cracking - the legs don't just provide forward and upwards momentum, they also the start of the sequence of body parts rotating and stopping that adds the whipcrack to the final part of the motion. I used to have a video of someone throwing a baseball where that process is really overt that I'll link to if I can find it again. With serving it's not quite as obvious because the whole motion is more compact but here's a video of Roddick serving where I think you can really see his arm lagging behind the rotation of his body:

 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Wurm said:
The kinetic chain functions like a whip cracking - the legs don't just provide forward and upwards momentum, they also the start of the sequence of body parts rotating and stopping that adds the whipcrack to the final part of the motion. I used to have a video of someone throwing a baseball where that process is really overt that I'll link to if I can find it again. With serving it's not quite as obvious because the whole motion is more compact but here's a video of Roddick serving where I think you can really see his arm lagging behind the rotation
Click to expand...
When you throw a baseball, your feet are on the ground. Mind explaining, how in the air, you use your hips to bring the shoulders around?
 
Wurm

Wurm

Professional
Step through the very first serve in the Roddick video and you can clearly see his hips starting to rotate as the legs push off whilst the racquet is dropping. His hips are basically stopping that rotation as the feet leave the ground and then the shoulders go, then the arm whips through.

From "Serious Tennis" by By Scott Williams, Randy Petersen

As the coiled energy begins to be released, the flexed legs extend and the counter rotated trophy pose starts to uncoil, starting with the hips, the torso then the upper body. It's hard to keep this uncoiling action on a stable axis, so imagine your left arm pulling you up to the point of contact. The racquet stays back, like the end of a whip. Only after the chest muscles release, sending a chain reaction through the arm, does the racquet rip through to meet the ball. As the right arm whips forward, the left arm acts as a decelerator by coming to the side near the hip or across the body and stopping there. It's like a jack-knifed tractor-trailor. The tractor slams on the brakes but slings the trailor forward. Your racquet arm is that trailer.
Click to expand...

That is the kinetic chain.

edit: Also, see http://smart-healthy-living.net/how-to-get-a-faster-tennis-serve/
 
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B

BallChaser

Rookie
Need to see from a different angle to confirm, but your elbow appeared too low before starting the racket drop.
https://imgur.com/5bFsvR0
The need to lift your dropped elbow interrupts a smooth shoulder movement and can break the kinetic chain.
I would practice throwing a football starting at a higher elbow position and transfer the technique over to serving.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Friedman Whip said:
You are taking a small (maybe 3-5 inches) step forward with your right foot during your swing. Although I'm sure that there some very fine players who do this, I believe that the overwhelming conventional wisdom is that the front foot (in your case your right foot) should not move forward like this.
Click to expand...
Good catch. Altho a small step fwd with the front foot is, in itself, not illegal, the OP appears to be footfaulting by stepping on the BL on many, if not most, of his serves.

For a while, Andy Roddick would move his front foot. But, he was actually moving it away from the BL to make his narrow platform even narrower. I believe he eventually switch back to a static front foot -- until he became airborne
 
F

Friedman Whip

Professional
SystemicAnomaly said:
Good catch. Altho a small step fwd with the front foot is, in itself, not illegal, the OP appears to be footfaulting by stepping on the BL on many, if not most, of his serves.

For a while, Andy Roddick would move his front foot. But, he was actually moving it away from the BL to make his narrow platform even narrower. I believe he eventually switch back to a static front foot -- until he became airborne
Click to expand...
I have a tendency to shift the front foot myself but I also know that if I keep it static my serve is much more consistently in.
 
vex

vex

Legend
Bend your knees more, tilt back looking up at the ball more, launch yourself up at the ball with you uncoiling all that knee/tilt load, rip up the ball much harder. Even if you don’t add a ton more plow thru (you can) you have so much more topspin you could be injecting
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@BallChaser @Nosliw
Wurm said:
Looks fine to me. Doesn't look much different than this guy, who has a pretty good serve these days:

nole-servee.jpg
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Do we know what year this is from? His elbow is a bit low in this image. It often got very low prior to 2010/11. He improved his serve mechanics in 2010 (it took 3 coaches to accomplish this I believe). Had a stellar year in 2011 after the correction. His serve stats noticeably improved when he fixed the low elbow (and other trophy issues).

But he's needed to tweak his serve a couple of times since then. Course corrections? It seems that his elbow might have gotten low again in 2018. But I believe it is now more in line with his shoulder tilt again

x1080

maxresdefault.jpg

​
 
N

Nosliw

New User
Wow I really never expected such a high volume AND quality of answers.. Thank you very very much to everyone that took the time to watch the video and make such details comments.. I am amazed and grateful, this is SO helpful !

I have summarized below the key points that you have mentionned, trying to regroup and rank by order of most frequently mentionned, and will start working on those asap and keep you regularly posted on my progress.

I have taken 2 new videos last Friday with different angles, hopefully already incorporating some of your comments (including on quality of the video)


1. More knee bend, tilt back, explosive uncoiling, generate power from lower body, jump up and not just forward
2. Do not rise the back leg too soon, legs should be still grouped at impact
3. Do not step front foot forward (I am indeed realizing i m footfaulting basically all my serves)
4. Do not swing the racket all the way back, and aim to reach trophy position faster (I guess more of a Kyrgios style with racket staying low pretty much all the time @SystemicAnomaly ?)
5. Single motion/don't "wait" for the ball
6. Start looking forward just before impact
7. Racket should not be completely vertical at impact but have a slight tilt
8. More follow through at the end of the movement

-> In the new videos, you may see that i m also changing my feet position to more parallel
-> One thing to consider is that my current racket is only 285grams, so I guess I could consider upgrading for something a bit heavier ? Thoughts on that anyone ?

-

@SystemicAnomaly definitely interested to see the salute video you re mentioning ! And yes I am also playing badminton and mostly squash, but i really want to focus at getting better at tennis !
@Bender yep absolutely this is QB. I live in KT so usually play more VP or CWB ! But maybe we could hit in QB one of these days !

Again thank you very very very much everyone and I hope to report some significant progress in the next couple of weeks/months
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
This video is showing a common problem. The racket head is set an angle and then swung at the left side of the ball (for lefties) to get side spin for a slice serve. Looking at the racket head, there appears to be little ISR before impact. You should search for leftie serves for comparisons. F. Lopez?

Also, your upper arm is tilted down at the shoulder at Trophy Position. See post #35 by @SystemicAnomaly. You get the upper arm angle back up before the main motion, I think, but don't do it. Compare.


You need to study the use of ISR on the serve.
Search: internal shoulder rotation ISR Chas
See more recent threads and base your study on clear high speed videos.

You need high speed video to see this part of the serve. Ideally, you will observe the rapid ISR by the shadows at the elbow.

This is difficult to change. Much of the service motion well before impact is to lengthen and stretch the muscles that do ISR, the lat and pec are the larger muscles. These are then used for ISR in the last 25-30 milliseconds leading to impact. The high level serve is a difficult motion.

Watch the elbow shadows. This is a very high speed video. A smartphone with high speed video mode often has a very fast shutter speed and many would probably show the elbow shadows. A wide angle lens smartphone has to be close, 8 ft back?, on a tripod, to show a clear image of the elbow shadows. Video only in bright sunlight to get a fast shutter speed from the automatic exposure control.

Joint motions are defined by how the bones move. ISR rotationally accelerates so strongly that Monfil's flesh of the upper arm lags and flops around. But near the elbow there are some bone & tendon shadows visible, that move with the bone. High speed video and a very fast shutter speed is needed to see that.

You should study Ellenbecker's recommendation for the upper arm angle/position during the service motion to reduce the risk of impingement.
 
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Wurm

Wurm

Professional
SystemicAnomaly said:
Do we know what year this is from?
Click to expand...

Based on his clothes, 2017.

It seems that his elbow might have gotten low again in 2018
Click to expand...

Well yes, here is him serving in practice at what I believe was the 2018 Fever Tree Championship.


But this was just before he won Wimbledon so it obviously didn't stop him serving to a high level, did it? The point is that I can find pictures of professional players with top class serves with their elbow "low" and I can find pictures of professional players with top class serves with their elbow "high". Whilst there is a theoretical ideal position, for good reason, there's clearly a range of acceptability that won't fundamentally stop someone hitting serves north of 120mph.

Are we saying this elbow position is the problem?

Nosliw.png


I don't think so.
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Nosliw said:
................................................................................
@SystemicAnomaly definitely interested to see the salute video you re mentioning ! And yes I am also playing badminton and mostly squash, but i really want to focus at getting better at tennis !
@Bender yep absolutely this is QB. I live in KT so usually play more VP or CWB ! But maybe we could hit in QB one of these days !
...................................................................
Click to expand...

The badminton smash uses ISR as the serve does. In fact, by the mid 80s badminton researchers had observed that and reported ISR was used for the tennis serve. Years later, in 1995, the issue was finally confirmed for the tennis serve.

Tennis-Badminton Connection-Early Research on Pronation & Internal Shoulder Rotation

FYI I recently got a copy of Badminton, 4th edition, (1996) by James Poole and Jon Poole. Poole's work was referred to in an earlier reply by SystemicAnomaly. Poole referred to work by David Waddell and Barbara Gowitzke using high speed cameras to analyze badminton smashes. [Badminton serves...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
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Wurm

Wurm

Professional
I've reversed the image on impact so we can do a direct comparison with Novak's serve:

Nosliw-reversed.png

Novak.png


There's a notable difference in body shape and centre of gravity at that moment.
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Compare

In my opinion, the upper arm position might be OK early in the service motion. I just looked at these ATP servers, I don't see others using Djokovic's low upper arm angle at that time of the service motion. There are some high angle upper arms that all/mostly are brought back down into alignment before the fastest part of the serve. Which player is most like Djokovic?

FYI
In a very recent thread @yossarian suppled information about impingement earlier in the serve than the rapid ISR toward the ball and that was news to me. That issue involved throwing and tennis also and the upper arm being high (abducted) when external shoulder rotation was occurring, at slower speeds and maybe also for early acceleration for the throw. This is important to understand because it is different than the ISR drive toward the ball, that I have read is the problem part of the motion. We need to know what % of impingement injuries are due to this earlier injury mode and what % are due to later rapid ISR. Needs more consideration.

The OP's arm is low and he brings it up before getting into the faster parts of the serve. Djokovic's upper arm is low and he gets it up also. Maybe that early in the serve, it does not matter. ? We should look at how many other ATP server's have their upper arm low at this time of the serve. That should be the standard, not whether we can find a few other early in the serve that have lower upper arm positions early in the motion. I've seen lots of variety the farther away from impact I look, but the closer to impact we get there is much less variations in technique.

Note- it seems better to go with average techniques as observed by statistics - especially for shoulder injuries. Shoulders have individual structure characteristics or flaws that affect the risks of impingement. Maybe one player has a shoulder that works OK higher up or lower down, but another player may have a different structure in the acromion area.

For example, these acromion structures are well known, and change the risks of impingement.
shoulder-impingement-acromion-shapes-illustration.png


Federer's upper arm is seen higher on serves at impact. Based on his lack of injuries. his angle is probably OK for him with his unknown shoulder structure. Would his upper arm angle be OK for you with your unknown shoulder structure?

Besides, in post #37, I analyzed the new video and it does not appear that the OP is doing the high level serving technique with ISR. I don't believe that Ellenbecker's recommendations on the shoulder applies to other techniques.
 
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SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Wurm said:
Based on his clothes, 2017.

Well yes, here is him serving in practice at what I believe was the 2018 Fever Tree Championship...

But this was just before he won Wimbledon so it obviously didn't stop him serving to a high level, did it? The point is that I can find pictures of professional players with top class serves with their elbow "low" and I can find pictures of professional players with top class serves with their elbow "high". Whilst there is a theoretical ideal position, for good reason, there's clearly a range of acceptability that won't fundamentally stop someone hitting serves north of 120mph.

Are we saying this elbow position is the problem?

Nosliw.png


I don't think so.
Click to expand...
Do not know if that particular position in your last image here is low enough to result in timing issues, rotator issues or any other issues. Is that the OP?

I was not the one who identified a possible elbow issue since I could not clearly see that kind of detail on the small screen of my smartphone.

If the elbow position remains constant, it may or may not be a problem. But quite often, servers will start off with an elbow position that is only slightly off and then, during the course a match or a practice session, will drop even lower.

The elbow image shown in your #28 post might be an issue. But that doesn't look quite as bad as his elbow angle and position that I had identified in threads back around 2007-09.

Note that 2018 was more than just one or two months long. Novak appeared to be having some issues in 2017 and early in 2018. He was losing in earlier rounds, even at the AO, his favorite major, for those two years.

I am currently working with a 5.5 ntrp player (former D2) who periodically has low elbow issues in competition. From the videos he has taken, his elbow position is typically not too bad in the 1st set or more. But often in the 3rd set or sometimes in the second set, he starts dropping his elbow. It starts looking similar to the image of Novak in post #28. And then often gets worse. The elbow yips?
 
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SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Nosliw said:
...
6. Start looking forward just before impact
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This should NOT be a goal.

Some elite servers, like Pete & Roger, usually fix their gaze on the contact point all the way to contact. Other top servers start to pull their eyes (& head) down a skosh earlier -- perhaps just centi-seconds (tens of milliseconds) before contact.

Nearly all top servers will still be looking at their contact points at the Big L position. Inverted L where the arm is nearly fully extended upward but the racket length is still parallel to the ground more or less.

I would say that most are still looking upward for, at least 2/3 or 3/4 if the upward swing. My suggestion is to fix your gaze on the ball/contact point as close to to impact as comfortable.

If you have your eyes still up at contact that is great. If the eyes come down this discourse before, that is also okay. But you really should not be making it a goal to start looking forward that contact.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Nosliw said:
...

4. Do not swing the racket all the way back, and aim to reach trophy position faster (I guess more of a Kyrgios style with racket staying low pretty much all the time @SystemicAnomaly ?)


-> One thing to consider is that my current racket is only 285grams, so I guess I could consider upgrading for something a bit heavier ? Thoughts on that anyone ?



@SystemicAnomaly definitely interested to see the salute video you re mentioning ! And yes I am also playing badminton and mostly squash, but i really want to focus at getting better at tennis !
Click to expand...
Badminton can definitely help with hitting overhead strokes in tennis. Many elite badm players will start their OH preparation similar to the salute position (rather than trophy position) that I suggested. A badm smash & a tennis OH will employ mechanics that are nearly identical. But the racket drop after the trophy, for either of these strokes, is not as deep as your serve drop would be.

Badminton kill shots, volleys & drives can help with tennis volleys. Note that the racket lies diagonally across the palm for tennis but is held somewhat more in the fingers (at an angle) for the much smaller badminton grip.

Squash can help you with your flatter shots & underspin shots in tennis. The so-called "squash shot" that Roger often hits can be a great emergency tool to have in your arsenal (mixed metaphor?).

I would definitely get away from the lighter rackets. Look for something closer to 300g (high 290s or more) strung weight. You might need something that is not quite as head heavy (HH) as your ultralight racket. Maybe a frame that is more evenly balanced or slightly head-light (HL) to offset the higher mass of a 300+g racket. Hitting with a higher mass HH racket might make serves more difficult.

You also take a look at published (measured) swingweights from sellers like TW. (Not to be confused with the unstrung swingweight that some manufacturers print on their frames). Consider a (strung) swingweight in the 320s or so. Tho you might still be ok with a lower SW in the 312-316 range.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Nosliw said:
...



4. Do not swing the racket all the way back, and aim to reach trophy position faster (I guess more of a Kyrgios style with racket staying low pretty much all the time @SystemicAnomaly ?)





-> One thing to consider is that my current racket is only 285grams, so I guess I could consider upgrading for something a bit heavier ? Thoughts on that anyone ?







@SystemicAnomaly definitely interested to see the salute video you re mentioning ! And yes I am also playing badminton and mostly squash, but i really want to focus at getting better at tennis !
Click to expand...
Nick Kyrgios certainly has an excellent serve but you might not necessarily want to copy all aspects of his serve motion. I would suggest a bit more coil of the upper torso than he employs. But, even though he appears to get somewhat less upper body coil than other top servers, he still gets a very decent separation angle -- that is, his upper body is turned more than his hips are.

Nick also extends his arm (nearly straight) prior to reaching his trophy or salute phase. It looks like the internal elbow angle moves from 150° (or more) to 90°. I would advise getting to 90° even sooner than Nick does. More like what we see with the clean, simple motion of Jeff Salzenstein here. (At 1:17 in the 1st vid)





Here is Ryan of High Altitude Tennis going thru a spin serve progression. Here he explains the terms, "salute", "comb the hair" and more after 1:13

 
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