"People don't like Djokovic because he beats their favourite player all the time" - Mardy Fish
- Thread starter Oceans II
- Start date
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Come on Hiti! At least Nadal in the wrong time. Novak was in the right place and at the right time
Basically ATP and Nike built up this perfect Fedal party to keep bringing in the cash...then the wrong guy came and at the wrong time for them and ruined everything.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
lol I think all the threads on it got deleted
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Wow. Do you not remember the jubilant throngs in every American main street when he won the epic Olympic silver medal in 2004?
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Why is it so hard for Djokovic fans to accept that most people don’t like him because he is a smug, phony clown? They have this associative compulsion to convince everybody that the only possible reason not to like him is because of anything else then the fact that he is a complete bozo.
Omega_7000
Legend
His father is a jerk as well. Idiot with zero class.
O
OhYes
Guest
I always liked Mardy
O
OhYes
Guest
Because we see who is telling that bs
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Lol. They had it all lined up perfectly and he ruined everything.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
The wrong guy entered the scene in 2011 when Fed was almost 30. He didn't ruin any party the bitter reality of TIME that ended it.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic usually hits more winners than Nadal when they play against each other...
Adv. Edberg
Legend
Sunny014
Legend
This is because Federer did not retire when he should have (conventionally) and was still good enough to reach the last stages of the tourneys to face younger Novak.
The Fedfather
Legend
You're right. Djokovic broke onto the scene as a big star when tennis fans had been engrossed with either Federer or Nadal, or them together for years already. It's true that a major reason he doesn't get crowd support is playing/beating/breaking records of the two crowd favorites. But when talking about dislike toward him, Novak's brash attitude is also to blame. Outside of fanatics who think Djokovic is Judas for almost anything he does, a lot of regular fans don't find the kind of attitude he has on court appealing.How many of you have seen the iconic movie Die Hard?
Novak Djokovic is basically like John McClaine, the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time, but becomes an absolute pain in the @$$ for Hans Gruber and his perfectly designed plan.
Novak Djokovic, just like John McClaine wasn't meant to ruin the party, but when he showed up, the real fireworks began.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yep.
He DID ruin it, because no one else was up to the challenge, even against an almost 30 year old Federer.
2017 is the perfect illustration of what would have continued to happen, if Earth's Mightiest didn't step in, in 2011.
Sunny014
Legend
True
I feel Courts were also slowed down to actually favor Nadal because Fed was winning a lot in early-mid 00s so ATP promoted more of it seeing young Nadal rise.
Sadly Nadal could not capitalize that in 2010s decade as Novak arrived and reaped the benefits of that.
Bhagi Katbamna
Legend
When that trailer came out, I was in a theater waiting to watch another movie(maybe Lethal Weapon) and when they saw Bruce Willis, the audience burst out laughing because all he had done until that point was a romantic/comedy TV show.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Why should he have retired? Djokovic is the same age now that Federer was in 2015. He's having a phenomenal year. Djokovic and Federer played each other in 5 Slam finals and in 10 Slam SFs, and only 2 happened when Federer was older than Djokovic is now. Without Djokovic around, Federer would have made a mockery of the sport. That doesn't sound like someone who should have retired.
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jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Is Mardy Fish a Djokovic fan now?
WildRevolver
Hall of Fame
Uhh..no. EPO is more rampant than ever. Combat sports has just started to get ahead of it with its testing procedures and has been catching people left and right, including (now disgraced) champions. It allows you to have infinite stamina and recovery. Sound familiar?
WildRevolver
Hall of Fame
If everybody was on EPO then how does he, at 34 years old, grind everyone else down and never get tired? EPO has become the go-to PED for stamina.
Sunny014
Legend
Year 2015 - Fed is 34, below him are peak ATG aged 28 and another beast aged 29
Year 2021 - Novak is 34, below him are 6 foot 5 inches tall clowns who are mentally weak pansies.
That is the difference, why will anyone retire when you have no rivals ahead?
If Fed was in Novak's place in 2021 then he might have not retired until Felix/Sinner turned 30, LOL
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Djokovic stopped Federer from winning more Slams more than Nadal did. Same for Djokovic versus Nadal. Throw in Murray also. Based on this, you're incorrect. He had 3 main rivals.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Nadal was not a problem for Federer in 2015. Only Djokovic was. With that said, Djokovic doesn't have a dominant ATG so 2021 is easier for him, but I'm not talking about that. I'm asking why should he have retired? He was only stopped by one man having the greatest season of his career.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
"I don't like Eminem".
"Lol, wtf is wrong with you, you imbecile?"
"I just don't like his thing"
"Haha, typically closeted Eminem fan!"
"No, I'm a Jethro Tull fan"
"Lol, so insecure because Eminem wins more Grammys than Jethro Tull. Poor snowflake!"
- - - - -
I understand why some don't like Nadal and Federer, they both have annoying traits. With Novak, the bad behaviour is both trivialised (it wasn't intended, he yelled at his box, no one got killed! (that's my favourite)) and rationalised (western corrupted media only likes Fedal, Novak is anti-establishment, the world hates Serbia etc.
Very few fans can admit that Novak doesn't behave well. And if they do, he is still "just being himself" or "super alpha".
That said, I really like a lot of Djokovic fans and think they have top contributions too TT. And when Novak lifts the trophy on sunday, he is GOAT, there is absolutely no doubt about that. But please, just allow people to like what they like and don't force them to like what they don't
"Lol, wtf is wrong with you, you imbecile?"
"I just don't like his thing"
"Haha, typically closeted Eminem fan!"
"No, I'm a Jethro Tull fan"
"Lol, so insecure because Eminem wins more Grammys than Jethro Tull. Poor snowflake!"
- - - - -
I understand why some don't like Nadal and Federer, they both have annoying traits. With Novak, the bad behaviour is both trivialised (it wasn't intended, he yelled at his box, no one got killed! (that's my favourite)) and rationalised (western corrupted media only likes Fedal, Novak is anti-establishment, the world hates Serbia etc.
Very few fans can admit that Novak doesn't behave well. And if they do, he is still "just being himself" or "super alpha".
That said, I really like a lot of Djokovic fans and think they have top contributions too TT. And when Novak lifts the trophy on sunday, he is GOAT, there is absolutely no doubt about that. But please, just allow people to like what they like and don't force them to like what they don't
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Can only speak for myself. Of course posters should like whoever they prefer. I don’t think that’s the issue for most Novak fans. I think the issue is that too many Fedal fans are now using popularity contests to replace actual tennis records. Hence the eternal debates here"I don't like Eminem".
"Lol, wtf is wrong with you, you imbecile?"
"I just don't like his thing"
"Haha, typically closeted Eminem fan!"
"No, I'm a Jethro Tull fan"
"Lol, so insecure because Eminem wins more Grammys than Jethro Tull. Poor snowflake!"
- - - - -
I understand why some don't like Nadal and Federer, they both have annoying traits. With Novak, the bad behaviour is both trivialised (it wasn't intended, he yelled at his box, no one got killed! (that's my favourite)) and rationalised (western corrupted media only likes Fedal, Novak is anti-establishment, the world hates Serbia etc.
Very few fans can admit that Novak doesn't behave well. And if they do, he is still "just being himself" or "super alpha".
That said, I really like a lot of Djokovic fans and think they have top contributions too TT. And when Novak lifts the trophy on sunday, he is GOAT, there is absolutely no doubt about that. But please, just allow people to like what they like and don't force them to like what they don't
Sunny014
Legend
What you and 99% of the crowd here don't realize is that Federer played Tennis under the toughest of circumstances which would have otherwise led him to retire by 2013 if he was weak willed like Borg or Sampras who ran away without facing youngsters.
Federer was first of all behind his generation until 2003 which is not a pleasant feeling for anyone if in his place, but he fought them and reduced all to dust by 2004 with the only exception of Safin and Roddick who tried until 06, then a young teenager arrived to beat him on clay and courts were so slow that this fellow even starting being a pain in the buttocks on Grass well, then he became on HCs too.
After his 2008 was ruined by Mono when he was back to his best by end of season he found out that the rest of the field had become physically stronger, running faster too, these youngsters.
2010-2013 were so very tough years when he had to compete with multiple guys younger to him who were hitting super hard and running superfast too, among them Novak was hitting the hardest and then his old nemesis Nadal was also there
Federer worked hard and subdued Nadal, reversing a decade old mindblock or whatever that had developed slowly and slowy due to courts allowed Nadal to exploit that backhand....... Have u heard of anyone reversing a mindblock vs someone 5 years younger??? It never happens ever..... this was the first time
Federer subdued the whole field but Novak because Novak was at his absolute best, still did have some wins vs Novak even in 2015 when he was the guy who beat Novak the most that year.
Then he had knee issues, he returned strong from that and dominated 2017-early 2018 period by winning 3 out of 5 slams (could have even made it 4 out of 5 but then luck ran out at USO).
Then he got older even more, still he put up a great performance in 2019W and came within inches of winning
Then more knee problems and even today his reflexes are excellent, he wants to fight but his body is not favoring him, he even took a bagel at the hands of some moron without retiring in that match, weak willed guys would have given a walkover to avoid the clean record being spoiled.... but not Roger
So you see, Novak has no idea on what it means to have 2 ATGs of next gen chase him when his own body is getting weaker while rest of the field is getting stronger and faster, had he experienced something like this he would have retired with an Agassi type career......
Nadal_Django
Legend
Because we want everything...EVERYTHING...
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair comment, as always. GOAThood and "impact on the game" are totally different discussions.
Sunny014
Legend
GOAT is not an objective stats piling contest mentioned in any textbook/on any ATP website, had that been the case then ATP would have made GOAT Race an official term like ATP Rankings race.
So yes, GOAT has always been a popularity contest.
Media coined Fed the GOAT because his streaks in 00s and all round dominance was something which Sampras or anyone before him did not have, plus Fed's brandvalue also made the media declare him the GOAT
So to beat an established popular guy you need popularity and iconic status too, this is not a stats piling race, because race begins at the same time between 2 same aged players, you cannot come some years later and cross under different circumstances of slam winning age and then pretend that it is all about stats, you wanna beat Federer then you gotta play by his rules and beat him
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Exactly. He dominated in 2017. Had he retired that never would have happened and he'd have 3 Slams less. And yes, you can say Djokovic doesn't know that it's like to have two younger ATGs chasing him but you also must say Federer doesn't know what it's like having two dominant, established ATGs in the beginning of his career blocking him as well.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Lol, no
Wurm
Professional
I wish people would stop trying to simplify why, some, people don't like Novak down to whatever pithy strawman makes them feel smart.
Not that many players who've been at world #1 in my lifetime were universally loved - Borg, Edberg, Federer and maybe Rafa and that's about it. Kuerten maybe? I'm not sure how much public perception shifted with Agassi by the end of his career.
Not that many players who've been at world #1 in my lifetime were universally loved - Borg, Edberg, Federer and maybe Rafa and that's about it. Kuerten maybe? I'm not sure how much public perception shifted with Agassi by the end of his career.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Why is it that in 2015 Federer was also at 34 and outlasting much younger opponents (and would have had a 2 Slam season if it weren't for Djokovic), we had none of this PED talk? Instead, we were told endurance and stamina peak in the mid 30s.
And Fed didn't even have Djokovic's body plan that's built for endurance: lean and carrying minimal extra weight
Sunny014
Legend
Only Nadal was the dominant ATG blocking Novak, not Federer. Fed's peak ended in 09 and in 2010-2011 period he was a guy losing to Berdych, Soderling, Tsonga types, he was not that dangerous (at least not for a zoning young ATG, for less mortals yess Fed at 30 would also be a big threat)
Nadal was yes a big threat in 2011 and Novak did well to subdue him that year, agreed.
However from 2012 onwards we have seen Nadal dip a bit in movement every year, so that factor is also there. Despite that Novak lost to him, stan, murray, jeez how did these inferiors win? Shocking...
Anyway, Fed too had Hewit, Safin, Nalby, ATG Agassi, Tiger Tim standing in his path before 04, while you might say they were not ATGs they were all at least former rank 1s (except tim), I would say guys aged same ahead of you is also an unpleasant thing as you have to reverse your H2H against them all ..... it is horrible .... Novak too faced the same thing in Nadal, the guy was established before
However 1 advantage the younger guy who has over the established guy is that the established guy has suffered a lot of wear and tear on his body while younger guy is fresh
Fed was fresher in 04 than Hewitt was, Novak was fresher in 2011 than Nadal was, hell even Agassi had a lot of success after 98 he practically did nothing for 10 years, a guy who underperformed for 10-11 years (88-98) can win slams from 99 more than someone like Pete who was already gassed out from his wear and tear from 90-98
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Unreal we are still talking about this.
Seems a tad deranged at this point
As the actual pros and themselves have stated over and over...These 3 have pushed each other to improve.
Fedal threw the kitchen sink and refrigerator at Djokovic.
With some success some failure
Time to move on.
This entire scene is kinda like a stale fart trapped in a blanket at this point.
Sunny014
Legend
Fedal in 2000s had better quality kitchen sinks which would have hurt Novak.
In 2010s their sinks were not of good quality due to body ageing.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Then they should have hung up the rackets in 2010.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL, not only is this a gross oversimplification of his game at best (but really, it's more of a bad misrepresentation), but if it were so easy and risk free, why don't other players do it?
It's also hilarious that you claim Nadal plays a high risk game when he has by far the safest game, with the highest net clearance possible. Not to mention how timid Nadal is in approaching the net
There's a reason why Nadal's body has been ground to dust while Federer and Djokovic have stayed relatively injury free into their 30s, and it's not because he goes for winners "at every opportunity"
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6august
Hall of Fame
You're going to have winners at some point? Sounds like he unintentionally hits winners )))
If you can't tell what is Djokovic's weapon, it means everything he has is his weapon )))
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Agreed. All 3 were big thorns in the side for each other at some point in their careers. All this age, peak this or peak that, or ATG this or that is useless. Federer had Djokovic in that 2019 W final. He had him. Outplayed him and the title was on his racket at almost 38 years old. Age didn't matter one bit.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Only Nadal was the dominant ATG blocking Novak, not Federer. Fed's peak ended in 09 and in 2010-2011 period he was a guy losing to Berdych, Soderling, Tsonga types, he was not that dangerous (at least not for a zoning young ATG, for less mortals yess Fed at 30 would also be a big threat)
Nadal was yes a big threat in 2011 and Novak did well to subdue him that year, agreed.
However from 2012 onwards we have seen Nadal dip a bit in movement every year, so that factor is also there. Despite that Novak lost to him, stan, murray, jeez how did these inferiors win? Shocking...
Anyway, Fed too had Hewit, Safin, Nalby, ATG Agassi, Tiger Tim standing in his path before 04, while you might say they were not ATGs they were all at least former rank 1s (except tim), I would say guys aged same ahead of you is also an unpleasant thing as you have to reverse your H2H against them all ..... it is horrible .... Novak too faced the same thing in Nadal, the guy was established before
However 1 advantage the younger guy who has over the established guy is that the established guy has suffered a lot of wear and tear on his body while younger guy is fresh
Ok.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Nadal WAS indeed. Heck even Andy Murray had a better season prior to ATP Finals.
Now the question is the person who ended Federer's dominance actually ruined the party, alguin called Rafael Nadal
Edit : And 2013 is another perfect illustration of what would have happened, if Rafa didn't step in. That would be another 2011ish season for Novak
Sunny014
Legend
Nice post.
This brand of worthless tennis is what will result in low viewership and possibly a big decline in revenue as well.
I would blame the ATP for this, Novak winning slams is the tightest of slaps that can be dealt on the face of ATP administration that slowed down all courts, this was the result, the champion that immediately won slams during the slowdown was a person from the 90s who had a good game (Fed), his successors are the ones playing this brand of tennis, it is the only consequence that could have happened.
Tennis deserves to be so boring now because of the conditions which resulted in crap tennis, with more powerful racquet heads they anyway killed tennis.
Sunny014
Legend
Age always matters.
At a minute level but it does.
10 years younger Federer would not have been so shoddy in tiebreakers, but this 2019 version was a loser and he lost because of that, even destiny told him " hey man, your returns lack the power, you are old, you ain't winning"
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Age was not the reason he lost that match. He had two match points on his serve so his return was a non-factor at that point in the match.
AntonZweck
Rookie
Say Nadal and Federer retired now, Djokovic would all of a sudden lose the motivation to carry on and might as well call it quits, that's the best case scenario. Or, he could choose to soldier on for the next 4 or 5 years and realized that people still hate him.
