Put Sir Andrew Barron Murray in the 2003-2009 era instead of Federer, how does he do?

How does Muzz fare in this era?

  • He wouldn't win any noteworthy titles

    Votes: 6 6.3%

  • Probably could vulture a Masters or a Slam every now and then

    Votes: 26 27.1%

  • He wins a good share of Big Titles but not quite as many as Federer did

    Votes: 34 35.4%

  • He'd

    Votes: 10 10.4%

  • He'd do even BETTER than Fed

    Votes: 11 11.5%

  • Undisputed GOAT

    Votes: 9 9.4%
  • Total voters
    96
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
The Guru said:
That's a matchup I'd love to see. With both guys returning at a super high level it'd be a rally fest between two of the best. It'd really come down to Murray using court craft to widen the court and grinding out Agassi's legs vs Agassi punishing Murray's 2nd and controlling the center with aggressive shotmaking. I think Murray does about as good a job as is possible on HCs of remaining unattackable (or at least making it unfavorable for the opponent to attack obviously anyone can attack anytime they want) and that leads me to believe he could use his stamina edge on an older Agassi. Obviously it depends on the level both guys bring but Murray is not in nearly as bad of a position vs Agassi as he is with Novak. With Novak there's no real game plan for him to win. It's just hope I play amazing and he doesn't bring his A game. With Agassi there's more in his game that he can use to exploit.
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It would depend on the year for Murray imo. He's had stretches in each of his big AO matches where he's been dominated from the back. One of the problems for Murray has been that when he gets aggressive he doesn't have the racket head speed of the Big 3, so he doesn't the same margin for error particularly off the forehand and he's also got the weakest rally ball. I think that's partly why he's struggled to string more than two good sets together down under. He can't keep up the intensity of his hitting against elite opposition.

Now I guess you could say as Agassi doesn't move as well this won't be as much of a problem because Murray won't have to hit three great shots to win a point? But Agassi had great anticipation and had a knack for being in the right place despite his movement. Agassi also has a bigger advantage off the forehand side on Murray than Djokovic does so Murray is going to have to take some risks with placement to avoid being given the run around.

For me the fact that a year later in worse forms he was able to contend with a Safin/Fed in BO5 bodes quite well for him handling Murray. I think Murray's best chance would be his 2013 form without the blisters. He served super well there and I think the quality of his ballstriking was very good as well. Would depend on what draw he ends up with as he's never really shown the efficiency to dominant his draws so if he draws a couple of tough opponents it could sink his chances. The AO often ended up with lopsided draws so might depend on luck.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Slicehand said:
i wasnt talking about the slams really, more like earlier rounds of minor tournaments, i dont know, take halle for example, it was his peak and he had some very difficult matches, even against rochus, or cincinnati, that match against murray is one of the worst ive seen from him, but then again, i think its normal due to all the matches he played, he made a lot of finals and played a lot of tennis, and its true that after wimbledon in 2017, his level dropped, he just seemed more passive to me in 2006 compared to 2017, where he was playing agressive all the time, in 2006 it seemed that he knew he was so superior that he went into the matches much slower, like just trying to groove his strokes and more passive in general
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So do you think 2006 Fed was taking it less seriously as was worse than 2015/2017 Federer? Slams are the most important so I picked them and asked if you thought 2017 Fed was better at any slam?

So was 2017 Federer the best Federer?
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
The Guru said:
Cuz he's much better at AO then USO. Maybe that would've changed but he doesn't have many deep runs at the UO. By clean up I meant win the easy ones you were referring to. Clean up as in clean up the trash (tournaments). So 06-07 plus maybe one more (prolly 03 or 04)
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2004 wasn't bad.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
RF-18 said:
You are so quick to call bad competition on djokovic and others how that makes them look better than they are and then when it suits your agenda you pump Agassis level in wich his draw was the worst in mankind? Worse than anything this so called weak era you call has ever produced. I'm just exposing your hypocrisy
The only muppet here is you ahahaha
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Agassi's draw was very easy AND he played at a high level, you absolute dunderhead. Better than Murray at any AO.
I didn't pump up **** unlike your fraud self.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
RS said:
So do you think 2006 Fed was taking it less seriously as was worse than 2015/2017 Federer? Slams are the most important so I picked them and asked if you thought 2017 Fed was better at any slam?

So was 2017 Federer the best Federer?
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No, im not saying that, 2006 was better because he won more, im just saying that his game, technically and mentally seemed better to me with the new racquet, its logical because he had 10 years more practice, obviously he cant have better results because he doesnt recover as good between matches and he isnt as quick on his feet
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Slicehand said:
No, im not saying that, 2006 was better because he won more, im just saying that his game, technically and mentally seemed better to me with the new racquet, its logical because he had 10 years more practice, obviously he cant have better results because he doesnt recover as good between matches and he isnt as quick on his feet
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You did say 2006 Federer played bad in quite a few matches which is still depending on level but fair enough if you think 2017 Federer had a better FH and BH and a shot arsenal.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
RS said:
Agassi AO 03 final vs Djokovic AO 15 final?
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That Djokovic featured some of the most epic possum-ing I’ve ever seen from a professional player in any match, let alone a Slam final lol.

Djokovic basically let Murray have the match on his racket but I feel like you cannot approach an Agassi match that way, it’d lead to a lost first set and force Djoko out of his complacency early. I always felt like ‘15 was Muzzah’s chance though, Djoko was better from 11-13, 16, and 19.

Personally I think Djokovic Agassi is maybe the most enticing of these ATG peak to peak matchups because of their similarities as players and genuinely insane ball striking talent. obviously there are no real matches to draw from like Fedal have with ol’ Andre. I have a sneaking suspicion Agassi would go up 2-0 with Djokovic executing the exact same playstyle and intensity as the ‘15 final, but given the level Djokovic showed to pull away at the end it would certainly be close.

I slightly lean Agassi winning though it would come down to BP conversion %. Both players would have 15+ BPs especially on that molasses slow ‘15 surface. Djokovic has burnt me so many times when I bet against him in the past, I never want to say he’ll lose a hypothetical at the AO.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
RS said:
You did say 2006 Federer played bad in quite a few matches which is still depending on level but fair enough if you think 2017 Federer had a better FH and BH and a shot arsenal.
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Better backhand and better serve definetly, better forehand no, better slice no, better drop shots yeah
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Kralingen said:
That Djokovic featured some of the most epic possum-ing I’ve ever seen from a professional player in any match, let alone a Slam final lol.

Djokovic basically let Murray have the match on his racket but I feel like you cannot approach an Agassi match that way, it’d lead to a lost first set and force Djoko out of his complacency early. I always felt like ‘15 was Muzzah’s chance though, Djoko was better from 11-13, 16, and 19.

Personally I think Djokovic Agassi is maybe the most enticing of these ATG peak to peak matchups because of their similarities as players and genuinely insane ball striking talent. obviously there are no real matches to draw from like Fedal have with ol’ Andre. I have a sneaking suspicion Agassi would go up 2-0 with Djokovic executing the exact same playstyle and intensity as the ‘15 final, but given the level Djokovic showed to pull away at the end it would certainly be close.

I slightly lean Agassi winning though it would come down to BP conversion %. Both players would have 15+ BPs especially on that molasses slow ‘15 surface. Djokovic has burnt me so many times when I bet against him in the past, I never want to say he’ll lose a hypothetical at the AO.
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I thought the AO 15 final was really high quality until Murray gassed in the end . I never saw it as Djokovic giving Murray a chance to win or leaving it open but I guess everybody had a chance to win in any match.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
RS said:
I thought the AO 15 final was really high quality until Murray gassed in the end . I never saw it as Djokovic giving Murray a chance to win or leaving it open but I guess everybody had a chance to win in any match.
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I need to give Murray more credit bc he was genuinely giving it his all after a poor 2014. Haven’t watched that match since I saw it live iirc, maybe glanced over highlights a couple times so I could be wrong. I do feel that Murray had many chances he let slip (i.e. a short ball, a floated return) that Agassi would have been more ruthless on, though. Agassi isn’t Wawrinka in terms of RPMs and weight of shot but I could see that blueprint being somewhat successful.

good point about Muzz getting gassed. Novak just has this preternatural tendency to extend matches past his opponent’s fitness zone. Not sure about Agassi’s ability to hang with Djoko fitness wise, he was in good shape sure but energy pyramids Djokovic is a different breed.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
RF-18 said:
Djoko would expose Agassi movement. That's the part with Agassi in those years where I have a tough time seeing him beat a prime Djokovic.
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He pushed Fed to 5. He wasn't as bad as you're portraying him.

Djoko nearly went 5 with old man Lopez LOL.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
mike danny said:
I'm not sure the BH was better than in 2006. He went toe to toe with Nadal in BO5 on clay.
[/QUOTEi think that was mostly footwork
mike danny said:
I'm not sure the BH was better than in 2006. He went toe to toe with Nadal in BO5 on clay.
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I think that was mostly footwork and that he learnt in previous years how to handle nadal spin a bit better, but power wise and winers? I think that was his trademark in 2017, the neo backhand, about the serve i think there shouldnt even be an argument about it
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RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Kralingen said:
I need to give Murray more credit bc he was genuinely giving it his all after a poor 2014. Haven’t watched that match since I saw it live iirc, maybe glanced over highlights a couple times so I could be wrong. I do feel that Murray had many chances he let slip (i.e. a short ball, a floated return) that Agassi would have been more ruthless on, though. Agassi isn’t Wawrinka in terms of RPMs and weight of shot but I could see that blueprint being somewhat successful.

good point about Muzz getting gassed. Novak just has this preternatural tendency to extend matches past his opponent’s fitness zone. Not sure about Agassi’s ability to hang with Djoko fitness wise, he was in good shape sure but energy pyramids Djokovic is a different breed.
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Maybe because Djokovic didn’t hit as hard in 2015 as other years. Djokovic was more about controlled aggression that year.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
timnz said:
Peak Murray was 2016, 7 years later.
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Peak workhorse Murray, yeah. In terms of level of play (especially in slams), it's very debatable.

He did lose to Glassikori at USO that year when the field was wide open for him to grab another slam (given that Novak was in pretty poor shape). Probably one of the worse losses of his career.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
zagor said:
Peak workhorse Murray, yeah. In terms of level of play (especially in slams), it's very debatable.

He did lose to Glassikori at USO that year when the field was wide open for him to grab another slam (given that Novak was in pretty poor shape). Probably one of the worse losses of his career.
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That too after leading 2-1 in set but the sound of gong.
That was really a bad miss, could have taken the fourth slam there
 
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