Is AZverev the best player in Open era without a Slam title?

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S

Sampras-Bruguera 1993

Legend
One of these younger guys may step up next year so its no guaranteed. The field is kind of open to everyone right now. The Big 3 are essentially done (Nole withstanding, but he won't dominate week in week out again) that leaves a big hole there
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
NAS said:
I remember him taking down Coric in qf and PCB in semi when they both played very good.
Specially Coric in qf.
This year he easily defeated Sinner and Harris back to back when they were in form
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Borna f-ing Coric was an impressive Slam win? lmao

Come on man you are a better poster than that.
serious-no.gif
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
I expect at least 10 more of these "lets go nuts about the player who has just won the last tournament played" kind of threads in the next couple of days.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Corretja another one I remembered.
So now my list is Corretja, Soderling and Tsonga
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
It was last year yes. And he played well but come on.

did you see Tsonga routine ‘08 Nadal at the AO or come back from 2 sets down vs ‘11 Federer at Wimbledon?
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Did you read my post? I already said Tsonga and Soderling and after your post have added Corretja also
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
NAS said:
Did you read my post? I already said Tsonga and Soderling and after your post have added Corretja also
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yeah that's a fair opinion. I'm just saying that Zverev has basically flattered to deceive in every single important Grand Slam match vs. opposition who is close to his talent level. Guys like Coric, Harris, PCB, and an inexperienced/choking Sinner this year are guys he should be beating, but as soon as he faces a top 10 player he loses.

End of the day the Slams decide this sport and he has to bring it in BO5 to gain respect. He has a lot of time to do so and I expect he will. But as of right now his Slam results are what keep him behind other players.
 
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NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
yeah that's a fair opinion. I'm just saying that Zverev has basically flattered to deceive in every single important Grand Slam match vs. opposition who is close to his talent level. Guys like Coric, Harris, PCB, and an inexperienced/choking Sinner this year are guys he should be beating, but as soon as he faces a top 10 player he loses.

End of the day the Slams decide this sport and he has to bring it in BO5 to gain respect. He has a lot of time to do so and I expect he will. But as of right now his Slam results are what keep him behind other players.
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Actually I am ok with real name but dropping Davy name or Nalbandian name is such an insult to Zverev.
Bring real name like Soderling or Corretja and I will agree with you
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
I am not adding Mecir name as I am not seen him live, same way I have heard Kriek was very good talent and Curren also
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Gonzo_style said:
I never saw Nalbandian winning some big title on clay, I give you that
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No thanks, I have plenty - I never saw Nalbandian win many titles he could have won with his game. That's why he is one of the best players without a slam, if not the best.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
skaj said:
What does Kriek have to do with the thread?
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I have heard from former pro players talk that Kriek was very good and talented and he could have won outside those weak AO wins.
Just didn't think those AO as real slam but yeah he did won slam
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
skaj said:
No thanks, I have plenty - I never saw Nalbandian win many titles he could have won with his game. That's why he is one of the best players without a slam, if not the best.
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The thing with Nalbandian is that his biggest weakness (bad to pathetic serve) is Zverev's biggest strength (huge 140mph howitzer of a serve) - so the points Nalby wins are certainly impressive but his inability to win free points really capped his ceiling in a way. I know people say he underachieved and he certainly did, but with that bad serve he was never going to be an ATG at least IMO.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
safinmafia said:
No, he wants the call with you.
I don't doubt he is greater than Zverev in this category. You do.
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Well I am out of burger right now at this time so Nalbandian calling me will be wasting his own time like he wasted his talent
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
The thing with Nalbandian is that his biggest weakness (bad to pathetic serve) is Zverev's biggest strength (huge 140mph howitzer of a serve) - so the points Nalby wins are certainly impressive but his inability to win free points really capped his ceiling in a way. I know people say he underachieved and he certainly did, but with that bad serve he was never going to be an ATG at least IMO.
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Nalbandian was a going to be slam winner if he finished Roddick or Baggy in three set, his two real chance.
Others chance are hypothetical
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
safinmafia said:
You gonna feed him burgers through video call? Geez. You are the one with the talent!
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See that how hypothetical talent work, unknown assumption, a person who was failing to make hc slam semi in most occasion barring two was going to be best person to not win slam
 
norcal

norcal

Legend
Slicehand said:
The most boring by far
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Really? I don't like his personality or mental toughness but his game is very aesthetically pleasing to me, especially when he is volleying how he is at the moment.

He's still mid-career and will win a couple slams so this question is irrelevant anyways.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Kralingen said:
The thing with Nalbandian is that his biggest weakness (bad to pathetic serve) is Zverev's biggest strength (huge 140mph howitzer of a serve) - so the points Nalby wins are certainly impressive but his inability to win free points really capped his ceiling in a way. I know people say he underachieved and he certainly did, but with that bad serve he was never going to be an ATG at least IMO.
Click to expand...

He didn't need free points to beat the big 3 in a row at a master event.
The thing with Nalbandian is that other than his mediocre serve, everything else in his game was world class. Accept for his mindset, of course, which is what prevented him from winning more.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
skaj said:
He didn't need free points to beat the big 3 in a row at a master event.
The thing with Nalbandian is that other than his mediocre serve, everything else in his game was world class. Accept for his mindset, of course, which is what prevented him from winning more.
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Yeah I shudder to think how guys like Medvedev and Tsitsipas would handle a baseliner like Nalbandian in his prime. He was unbelievable ..

But not consistent (partly due to injury) but again I think it's just so much harder to win consistently without a serve.

I can’t ignore the importance of it. Think about this: he is an inferior server to literally every single HC Slam winner in the entire open era. Maybe some clay winners like Chang, Bruguera & Costa are comparable. And in two of the biggest matches of his career he choked a 2-0 set lead. You could say that's due to fitness, but maybe it was a feature of his playstyle: because he couldn't get free points in those first 2 sets and just didn't have enough left in the tank.. There has to be some sort of trend to follow there.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
norcal said:
Really? I don't like his personality or mental toughness but his game is very aesthetically pleasing to me, especially when he is volleying how he is at the moment.

He's still mid-career and will win a couple slams so this question is irrelevant anyways.
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How many times he goes to the net in a match? I dont know each one has an opinion but a match between him and medvedev is so boring to me, just groundstrokes left and right with little variety until one misses, that for two hours, i dont like so tall players, it seems like there is less intensity
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Kralingen said:
Yeah I shudder to think how guys like Medvedev and Tsitsipas would handle a baseliner like Nalbandian in his prime. He was unbelievable ..

But not consistent (partly due to injury) but again I think it's just so much harder to win consistently without a serve.

I can’t ignore the importance of it. Think about this: he is an inferior server to literally every single HC Slam winner in the entire open era. Maybe some clay winners like Chang, Bruguera & Costa are comparable. There has to be some sort of trend to follow there.
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Nadal did it. He did work hard, that's for sure.

Let's not go nuts with the inferiority. "Maybe" Chang? Of course his serve wasn't inferior to Chang's, it's Nalbandian not early Dementieva. And there are other players, Hewitt for example, Agassi, Wilander... All mediocre servers, multiple slam winners. Not to mention if we go further back to the past. Remember, the 70s were the Open Era too.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
skaj said:
Nadal did it. He did work hard, that's for sure.

Let's not go nuts with the inferiority. "Maybe" Chang? Of course his serve wasn't inferior to Chang's, it's Nalbandian not early Dementieva. And there are other players, Hewitt for example, Agassi, Wilander... All mediocre servers, multiple slam winners. Not to mention if we go further back to the past. Remember, the 70s were the Open Era too.
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Nadal Agassi and Hewitt were definitely better servers than Nalbandian from what I've seen+stats. Wilander is a good one but I remember reading that he had a higher unreturned serve% than his opponent in all of his Slam wins... Nalbandian on the other hand has one of the lowest unreturned serve % from any 'top player' in tennis history.

Anyway I know you love the guy, and I think his best matches are full of pure and utter magic. But when a player like him or Mecir who seemed to be poetry in motion never won a Slam... You have to ask the question about what held them back. That's why I've looked into it in depth and come up with the argument that his serve was the fatal flaw.
 
Milehigh5280

Milehigh5280

Professional
Him or Rios. I'd give Rios the edge because he was #1. Actual accomplishments are more important than talent/peak level
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Kralingen said:
Nadal Agassi and Hewitt were definitely better servers than Nalbandian from what I've seen+stats. Wilander is a good one but I remember reading that he had a higher unreturned serve% than his opponent in all of his Slam wins... Nalbandian on the other hand has one of the lowest unreturned serve % from any 'top player' in tennis history.

Anyway I know you love the guy, and I think his best matches are full of pure and utter magic. But when a player like him or Mecir who seemed to be poetry in motion never won a Slam... You have to ask the question about what held them back. That's why I've looked into it in depth and come up with the argument that his serve was the fatal flaw.
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Stats are consistency, it goes for most shots. I don't see how are Agassi and Hewitt "definitely better", it's the same league of mediocre servers, if someone is better it's a matter of nuance, not something that would make a difference in winning slams. Mentality is.


You don't have to ask the question what held Nalbandian back, we know the answer and I have named it here already. Same reason some other great players who do have big serves never won a slam.

Who do I love by the way? Please inform me, it seems that I am not in touch with my feelings while you are, because I don't feel love for any of the players we are talking about at the moment, unless you are talking about the Christian kind of love. :)
 
Dominic & Andrey

Dominic & Andrey

Legend
Zverev showed great level at slams, the first two sets against Thiem during the US Open final, he had great moments too against Djokovic in the US Open SF this year. Problem for him is he will always mentally crumble on his serve when it matters really.

With his high peak and his choking he reminds me of Cilic, Cilic having the particularity to choke even more than Zverev.
Peak for peak I have no idea who would win between Zverev and Berdych/Tsonga, it would be close IMO, and that's a compliment for Zverev because Tsonga especially could reach an amazing level, better than peak Tsitsipas and peak Medvedev IMO
 
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Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Not sure of all the players but he is better then Davydenko or Nalbandian, when everything is clicking not to mention when you can serve 80% 1st and move and defend as well as he does
And those 2 were never close to win a slam to begin with.
 
M

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Kralingen said:
The thing with Nalbandian is that his biggest weakness (bad to pathetic serve) is Zverev's biggest strength (huge 140mph howitzer of a serve) - so the points Nalby wins are certainly impressive but his inability to win free points really capped his ceiling in a way. I know people say he underachieved and he certainly did, but with that bad serve he was never going to be an ATG at least IMO.
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Nalby was never going to be a slam winner with that serve
ATG is in an another galaxy stretch for him. The guy had that lucky draw in Wimbledon 2002 that took him to the final where he got destroyed by Hewitt and never had a real shot after for a slam title let alone to win 5-6.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
I wouldnt have tought that he had the makings of a varsity athlete
 
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