What does it say about today's talent that Federer was forced to play 'til 40?
- Thread starter ffw2
- Start date
Mediterranean Might
Professional
His hand was forced because he had the other 2 greatest players of all time breathing down his neck for most of his career
Mediterranean Might
Professional
This too!
Even by his standards the awful 2021 season featured a geriatric Federer making it to the second week of the two most drastically different slams. If this was a non ATG/GOAT candidate who did that at 40 we’d be praising them to the heaven and back
ffw2
Hall of Fame
His hand was forced because the also-rans had no legitimate younger competition.
That's the point...
Mediterranean Might
Professional
Silly point because they had each other plus the other greatest player of all time (even if older) to compete with for their whole careers…
Edit: Also young Nadal was beating and had a strong H2H against peak Federer during his absolute best years and before Nadal hit his own peak
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
And we are still needing him back. How will WC even be competitive?
ffw2
Hall of Fame
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Zverev's rap sheet continues to grow. Maybe a full time life of crime is in order after another top 10 defeat.
ffw2
Hall of Fame
I mean, outwardly, it may appear that way.
But that's pretty superficial, and removes all context.
Connors was playing like podunk 100-level tourneys to grab some cake late-career dubyas.
Rosewall played a different game, in a different time. Slightly lower stakes as well.
Small differences.
beard
Legend
I will inform you that Federer is half retired, and that is if you wanna be optimistic... If he play ever again he will be ranked under 200...Seriously, how sad is it that he had to lace 'em up and get out there to keep the game respectable—until he was closer to 50 than 30.
Because the rest of the field was so putrid.
There are weak eras...
And then there are Weak Eras.
I mean he could "play" this way for a decade more... Will you make similar thread when he's 50 and still "play"?
ffw2
Hall of Fame
Use 39, if you want. Or even 38.
That's how old Federer was when he last trashed Djokovic, right?
But in seriousness, the main thing is that Federer kept going way past his expiration date. Wouldn't have done so if there had been a new generation of ATGs.
But we just never got them. Federer spawned Nadal and Djokovic. What did they spawn?
Pheasant
Legend
Federer's, Rosewall's, Connors', Laver's, and Agassi's records vs top players after turning 35 years of age, per Tennis Abstract(sorted by most wins)
records vs top 5
Federer: 9-7, .563
Connors: 3-16, .158
Laver: 2-5, .286
Rosewall: 2-6, .250
Agassi: 0-3, .000
records vs top 10
Federer: 25-16, .610
Rosewall, 7-12, .368
Connors: 6-21, .222
Laver: 3-10, .231
Agassi: 2-4, .333
Note: This isn't fair to Rosewall, since the computer rankings didn't even come out until he was 38 years old.
Let's look at Rosewall's and Federer's records vs top players after turning 38:
records vs top 5
Rosewall: 2-6, .250
Federer: 2-7, .222
records vs top 10
Federer: 9-12, .429
Rosewall: 7-12, .368
records vs top 5
Federer: 9-7, .563
Connors: 3-16, .158
Laver: 2-5, .286
Rosewall: 2-6, .250
Agassi: 0-3, .000
records vs top 10
Federer: 25-16, .610
Rosewall, 7-12, .368
Connors: 6-21, .222
Laver: 3-10, .231
Agassi: 2-4, .333
Note: This isn't fair to Rosewall, since the computer rankings didn't even come out until he was 38 years old.
Let's look at Rosewall's and Federer's records vs top players after turning 38:
records vs top 5
Rosewall: 2-6, .250
Federer: 2-7, .222
records vs top 10
Federer: 9-12, .429
Rosewall: 7-12, .368
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Doing Agassi dirty there. Those 3 losses were to Federer in a Slam Final, a 3 set Final loss to Nadal and year end indoor loss to Davydenko after which he pulled out of the remaining matches. Absolutely nothing to gain from that 0-3. If you extend to his record at 30+ it is much more reasonable.
As for ancient Rosewall, half of those losses were in Slam Finals to #1 seed Connors and 17 years younger Tanner. He made four Slam Semis at an age older than Federer's last.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
I honestly don't think he would've lasted this long without Nadal and Djokovic. Imagine him sitting on 16 Slams even at 30/31 and literally noone chasing him. I don't know how you can maintain the same level of motivation.
ffw2
Hall of Fame
Thanks for these.
Should probably be noted tho that today's world #100 would likely straight-set the #1 of the late '60s, conceding maybe two games.
Possibly. But he wouldn't have had to if they had even reasonably respectable younger opposition.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
One of my favourite hypotheticals is if Federer wins the 2008 Wimbledon, 2009 USO and 2011 USO.
In such a scenario, not only would he of had a ludicrous 7 consecutive Wimbledon and 6 straight USO crowns (7 total) but he would have taken a Slam each away from Nadal and Novak while the tally would be as so after his 2012 Wimbledon title:
Federer-20
Nadal-10
Novak-4
Of course had he not retired similair to Pete he probably wins 2014 Wimbledon and maybe another Slam in 2015, then if 2016 goes the same likely doesn't return for 2017. It's not so much the motivation but his narcissism being secured and rehab to come back for 2017. One decent argument for the 17-18 period is he in a way made up for his 3 mentioned lost Slams however it was done without costing his rivals as much (Nadal an AO yes) and when the writing was already on the wall. I don't think it's a coincidence Novak's resurgence in 18-19 mentally shot Roger losing to Millman and Tsitsipas (USO/AO).
What makes you think Cecchinato or Cuevas would handily obliterate Rod Laver playing wooden racquets?
There was not just one missing generation of new great players, but now we are into a third missing generation. Maybe this is it, no more greats on the horizon.Use 39, if you want. Or even 38.
That's how old Federer was when he last trashed Djokovic, right?
But in seriousness, the main thing is that Federer kept going way past his expiration date. Wouldn't have done so if there had been a new generation of ATGs.
But we just never got them. Federer spawned Nadal and Djokovic. What did they spawn?
beard
Legend
Federer trashed Novak? Novak doesn't care to push against Fed baring slams...Use 39, if you want. Or even 38.
That's how old Federer was when he last trashed Djokovic, right?
But in seriousness, the main thing is that Federer kept going way past his expiration date. Wouldn't have done so if there had been a new generation of ATGs.
But we just never got them. Federer spawned Nadal and Djokovic. What did they spawn?
Bold: And Nadal didn't? And Novak didn't? Sorry to tell you mate, Fed isn't special on this "age" thing, there are even better than him...
ffw2
Hall of Fame
Interesting.
That may be the case. Just a tectonic generational shift in terms of desire.
"Good enough" may be the new ethereal.
