How is the total weight and SW higher on your VCP97 than the vcore95 if they should both be 310g stock and you have 3g lead on your vcore95? *confused*
Official Swingweight, Twistweight, Static Weight, Balance measurements of your frames - Data thread
- Thread starter Power Player
- Start date
How is the total weight and SW higher on your VCP97 than the vcore95 if they should both be 310g stock and you have 3g lead on your vcore95? *confused*
tim-ay
Legend
And for some reason I can’t explain, it’s kind of fun.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Because they aren't 310. Assuming the frame is exactly it's listed weight is always a mistake.
The Vc95 is 308 grams stock and the VC97 Pro is 313
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Like a kid with a new toy at Christmas.And for some reason I can’t explain, it’s kind of fun.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Its amazing. No more concern on a new frame showing up and me having no idea how its swinging.
I was swinging a 365SW yonex at one point because i thought it was 345 and couldnt figure out why my serve was not kicking enough.
Thankfully those days are now over.
I was swinging a 365SW yonex at one point because i thought it was 345 and couldnt figure out why my serve was not kicking enough.
Thankfully those days are now over.
SonRK
Semi-Pro
Strung up four racquets today and I have the following specs for now (no HL/HH as I have no balance board, will edit them in by next week since I am getting one).
Babolat Pure Drive 2021 strung with Ashaway Crossfire ZX (17g) - 320.5g / 313SW
Wilson Blade V8 US Open strung with Hyper G Soft (18g) with Tier One Ghostwire (18g) - 325.5g / 327 SW
Wilson Blade V8 Chameleon strung with Luxilon ALU Power (18g) - 322.8g / 315 SW
Wilson Pro Staff 6.1 100 v13 strung with Hyper G Soft (18g) with Tier One Ghostwire (18g) - 325.3g / 318SW
Babolat Pure Drive 2021 strung with Ashaway Crossfire ZX (17g) - 320.5g / 313SW
Wilson Blade V8 US Open strung with Hyper G Soft (18g) with Tier One Ghostwire (18g) - 325.5g / 327 SW
Wilson Blade V8 Chameleon strung with Luxilon ALU Power (18g) - 322.8g / 315 SW
Wilson Pro Staff 6.1 100 v13 strung with Hyper G Soft (18g) with Tier One Ghostwire (18g) - 325.3g / 318SW
Power Player
Bionic Poster
can you list the specs when you get a chance? Thats my idea for the thread - a repository for the data.
JOSHL
Hall of Fame
Got my SW1 all dialed in so here’s some measurements of my 2 Extreme Tours-
Head Extreme Tour 4 1/4 (with Volkl V Dry, built up butt with onewhole used overgrip wrapped around the end, strung with 1.25 Poly tour Rev purple) | Static Weight - 11.60oz , Swingweight - 319.52, Balance - 7HL
Head Extreme Tour NITE edition 4 1/4 (with Volkl V Dry, built up butt with onewhole used overgrip wrapped around the end, strung with 1.25 Poly tour Rev white) | Static Weight - 11.68oz , Swingweight - 314.26, Balance - 8HL
Head Extreme Tour 4 1/4 (with Volkl V Dry, built up butt with onewhole used overgrip wrapped around the end, strung with 1.25 Poly tour Rev purple) | Static Weight - 11.60oz , Swingweight - 319.52, Balance - 7HL
Head Extreme Tour NITE edition 4 1/4 (with Volkl V Dry, built up butt with onewhole used overgrip wrapped around the end, strung with 1.25 Poly tour Rev white) | Static Weight - 11.68oz , Swingweight - 314.26, Balance - 8HL
Brando
Professional
Hey, @Irvin. Have you found that approximate one point increase in recoil weight from measuring frames strung vs. unstrung to be pretty consistent? Or are there significant variances? And if so, do they occur by string type or any other significant variable?
(Pardon the many questions, but if I know you, you've played with that SW1 toy of yours a lot; and if any patterns have emerged, you've caught 'em.)
(Pardon the many questions, but if I know you, you've played with that SW1 toy of yours a lot; and if any patterns have emerged, you've caught 'em.)
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Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I think adding weight in the handle (especially top of handle), from what I've read and understand, also helps with the Recoil Weight... and adds to the "stability" feeling when hitting (especially against hard hitters - that's why Djokovic, for example, has that large piece of metal (shaped as not to interfere with his hand holding the top of the grip) at the top of his racquet grips).
Not sure if that's what @Irvin was already saying... but just thought I'd add that (in case he wasn't).
Brando
Professional
I learned from masters that the easiest way to customize for recoil weight is to remember that the farther you can place mass from the balance point (COM), the more recoil you'll add. So putty under the butt cap adds the most recoil (at least on that end of the stick). It also drops balance the most. So adding mass at 7" is about adding recoil while somewhat preserving balance, which, as you say, @Classic-TXP-IG MID, still adds a feeling of stability.
Brando
Professional
I don't mean to fact-check you with your own data, but I'm a bit confused. As part of my ongoing research, I just found your post #29 here...
Your ideal Twistweight? POLL
Twistweight is one of the most import factors in weight distributions with rackets. I am pretty curious what people see as the ideal twistweight for themselves. A brief explanation: Twistweight basically determines how much weight is added at the 3 and 9 position. So higher twistweights make a...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
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Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Thanks for that. Recently I decided to experiment with adding silicone to the handle of my G360+ Extreme Tour (as there was enough margin in the static weight to my regular racquet which are all around 350-360g strung). My already modified G360+ ETs were at (strung) 343g static, 317mm balance, and an increased SW (as I don't have access to a machine or Briffidi - but I've added about 6g around the head), before the addition of the silicone. Now they are (strung): 362g static, 305mm balance, and increased SW (no additional weight in the head).
The stability of the racquets is through the roof, they can withstand all in-coming balls, they absorb pace like nothing else I have, and they are more manoeuvrable than before. They are just a joy to play with now. This goes along with what you outlined above. The added bonus with the silicone is the shock absorption.
Brando
Professional
Ain't it nice when you've dialed it in to what finally feels right? Sweet, @Classic-TXP-IG MID.
Since you're mainly handle weighting, you rightly don't care much about the ending swingweight. But if that 6g hoop weight is a strip at the tip, it'll add 20 SW points while even as much as 30g of silicone in the handle won't add any at all (strange, huh?). So, assuming you started with the spec 318 SW, it may now be around 338.
Since you're mainly handle weighting, you rightly don't care much about the ending swingweight. But if that 6g hoop weight is a strip at the tip, it'll add 20 SW points while even as much as 30g of silicone in the handle won't add any at all (strange, huh?). So, assuming you started with the spec 318 SW, it may now be around 338.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
On my G360+ ETs I have 2g at 12 o'clock, 0.75g at 2 and 10 respectively (so 1.5g total), 2 or 3g total at 3&9 (can't remember now), and 0.5g total at 4 & 8 o'clock (so that's 6-7g total in the head of the racquet).
The rest is in the handle. This includes cotton wool, silicone, two over-grips, additional 5.6g at the top of the handle in the form of two 5 cent Australian coins (on the base grip), and a No. 64 Rubber-band dampener (woven worm-style).
I have no idea what the SW was in stock form, so I'm not sure what it would be now. I may look into getting a SW1 machine in the near future. Then I will be able to measure all things correctly... and see whether my "feeling" of SW is correct or very wrong (and also be able to see if there is a consistent "range" that all my racquets are at).
The most important thing is how I play with the racquets. If I measure them, and they are at an unexpected SW number (whether high or low), I will not change things to meet some pre-conceived notion of what I "should" be playing at.
I have had my BP v7 16x19 No.1 racquet measured on a Babolat RDC machine... and it was 343g, 305mm balance, and 324SW (Unstrung) after my mods. Strung it is: 364g, 315mm balance, and 354 SW. Those specs are pretty hefty, and I don't expect my other racquets to be as high, but I can still play very well with it for several hours. Therefore, the others should be lower and more manageable.
Still, with the SW1 machine, I will be able to have exact figures.
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Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
What makes you think we haven't. You make some very strong assumptions.
What level would you say you are at?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
sure buddy. Let’s see you hitting so we can see how it’s done.
And who’s paying $275 a racquet? Aren’t you the guy who bought a blade pro and then whined that it was too head heavy? Lol.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Adding mass (anywhere) increases inertia, and RW is the inertia at the center of mass. The farther from the center of mass you add mass the greater the RW increase. As far as ‘helping RW’ (whatever that means) adding mass at the butt gives you the greatest increase in RW. Adding mass in the handle increases RW more than it increases SW, especially if the mass is added at the 10 cm SW pivot. Added mass in the handle anywhere other than 10 cm increases SW slightly.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
You are probably right. I’ll check the TW increase the next time just to double check. Not sure what I thought 1 kgcm^2.
Brando
Professional
@Irvin, I have learned sooo much from your posts, and you share so much good intel with us here. There's bound to be one or two moments where you can't help but misspeak about something or other, or you wouldn't be human. All to say, thanks for taking a look at that and for your openminded response.
4.0 baseline/all-courter, eastern 1HBH, semi-western FH.
Current Frame: Head Auxetic Prestige MP-L (TGK334.5 -- 300g, 99", 16x19, 21.5mm, 31.5cm, 283 unstrung SW)
Strung specs (via calibrated Briffidi SW1): 338-340g, 31.5cm (9pts HL), 328 swing weight, 14.2 twist weight
Customization: 2 Gamma Supreme over grips, 3-4g lead total at 10 & 2
Strings: 1.30-gauge poly, typically ~55 lbs
Current Frame: Head Auxetic Prestige MP-L (TGK334.5 -- 300g, 99", 16x19, 21.5mm, 31.5cm, 283 unstrung SW)
Strung specs (via calibrated Briffidi SW1): 338-340g, 31.5cm (9pts HL), 328 swing weight, 14.2 twist weight
Customization: 2 Gamma Supreme over grips, 3-4g lead total at 10 & 2
Strings: 1.30-gauge poly, typically ~55 lbs
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
The post you quoted was from 2016 long before I had a Briffidi SW1 and a TW adapter. I was probably getting the readings using SwingTool and subtracting SW from spin weight a less accurate method.I don't mean to fact-check you with your own data, but I'm a bit confused. As part of my ongoing research, I just found your post #29 here...
...which seems to indicate two racquets picking up around 2 kg×cm² from stringing, not 1. Or am I missing something? (It wouldn't be the first time.)Your ideal Twistweight? POLL
Twistweight is one of the most import factors in weight distributions with rackets. I am pretty curious what people see as the ideal twistweight for themselves. A brief explanation: Twistweight basically determines how much weight is added at the 3 and 9 position. So higher twistweights make a...
I just strung a Wilson ULTRA 100 with Black Code 16 / MultiFeel 16 @ 53 / 55.
unstrung - 303.52 g, 280.74 kgcm^2, and 13.62 kgcm^2
strung - 320.91 g, 314.05 kgcm^2, and 14.37 kgcm^2
weight +17.39 g, SW +33.31 kgcm^2, and TW +0.75 kgcm^2
@Brando - Indeed it is. The MP-L is a special frame. Regarding Head's "embargo" on officially bringing them to the USA, absolutely silly. I've been look at ways to get more, either by sourcing from certain e-tailers who will still ship them here, or by shipping to a drop-ship forwarding service in the UK or Germany (who then forwards the package on to the States). Ridiculous that we have to go to these lengths, but I will, because the frame is just that good!
SwissServe
Rookie
Got some data of two Head Gravity Tour (2023) with a friends sw1 tool:
(1)
Unstrung: Weight: 305.4g / Balance Point: 31.8cm / SW: 289 / TW: 13
Strung (Head Hawk Power 1.25): Weight: 323.3 / Balance Point: 32.9cm / SW: 322 / TW: 13
(2)
Unstrung: Weight: 305.4g / Balance Point: 32.0cm / SW: 288 / TW: 13
Strung (Luxilon ALU Power Soft 1.25): Weight: 322.6 / Balance Point: 33.1cm / SW: 319 / TW: 13
Unstrung: Measured without overgrip, no lead/customization
Strung: 2-pieces, measured without overgrip, no lead/customization
Seems the Luxilon ALU Power (same gauge) weights a little less, a balance point shift looks within measuring tolerance (strung frames 2mm) and generally leads to slightly smaller swingweight. Next time I will string the racket (1) with the "heavier" string to achieve even more equal specs (as the unstrung balance point of racket (1) is slightly further than in racket (2)). But seems that the matching service from TW Europe succeeded (I was ordering two matching rackets, not customized, but as close to Head specs).
Although, one thing was a little confusing: TW Europe specifies a swingweight of 314 and (strung) a balance point of 33.5cm. I am not sure if this is possible or achievable, even with the thinnest string available...
(1)
Unstrung: Weight: 305.4g / Balance Point: 31.8cm / SW: 289 / TW: 13
Strung (Head Hawk Power 1.25): Weight: 323.3 / Balance Point: 32.9cm / SW: 322 / TW: 13
(2)
Unstrung: Weight: 305.4g / Balance Point: 32.0cm / SW: 288 / TW: 13
Strung (Luxilon ALU Power Soft 1.25): Weight: 322.6 / Balance Point: 33.1cm / SW: 319 / TW: 13
Unstrung: Measured without overgrip, no lead/customization
Strung: 2-pieces, measured without overgrip, no lead/customization
Seems the Luxilon ALU Power (same gauge) weights a little less, a balance point shift looks within measuring tolerance (strung frames 2mm) and generally leads to slightly smaller swingweight. Next time I will string the racket (1) with the "heavier" string to achieve even more equal specs (as the unstrung balance point of racket (1) is slightly further than in racket (2)). But seems that the matching service from TW Europe succeeded (I was ordering two matching rackets, not customized, but as close to Head specs).
Although, one thing was a little confusing: TW Europe specifies a swingweight of 314 and (strung) a balance point of 33.5cm. I am not sure if this is possible or achievable, even with the thinnest string available...
Spezifikationen
| Schlagfläche: | 100 in² / 645 cm² |
| Länge: | 68,5 cm |
| Gewicht: | 320 g |
| Gewicht (unbesaitet): | 305 g |
| Balance: | 33,5 cm |
| Balance (unbesaitet): | 32 cm |
| Schwunggewicht: | 314 |
| Rahmenhärte: | 63 |
| Rahmenstärke: | 22 mm / 22 mm / 22 mm |
| Material: | Graphene 360+ / Graphite |
| Schlägerfarbe: | Schwarz |
| Griffband: | Head Hydrosorb Pro |
| Saitenmuster: | 18 Längs- / 20 Quersaiten Überspringen: 8T, 10T, 8H, 10H |
| Besaitungshärte: | 21-25 kg |
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@SwissServe - I would presume the unstrung balance point on Gravity Tour #1 is a typo: it must be 31.8, not 32.8 (given the unstrung balance of GT #2 and the strung balance points of both).
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah he runs his mouth a lot and then turtles up. lol.
SwissServe
Rookie
Thanks for pointing this out, must be 31.8 (typo)
How can you have the same TW strung and unstrung?
I assume 13 is unstrung.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Appreciate this. I have the exact same frame coming at some point (its been in customs forever). I'm hoping to get the SW to 295 and balance to 6pts HL strung while keeping the weight round 310-315.
We shall see what specs I get. Ill post when I measure.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Calibrated my briffidi and my unstrung specs on the gravity tour are - 302 grams 286 sw 319 balance.
SwissServe
Rookie
I have rounded the figures, but the difference is rather small. Means unstrung 12ish something and strung 13ish - but next time I will string the frame, will take another measurement.
SwissServe
Rookie
Would be very interesting if you are able to match the (strung) SW between 310-315 and which string do you use.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
So the update is this - I was able to match the Tour to my Pro. My Pro is underweight and only 310 grams. I always do unstrung matching so strings don't factor in.
Was able to get the Tour matched under 1 gram/SW pt and balanace millimeter:
Gravity Pro- 310 Grams, 296.2 SW,, 317 Balance
Gravity Tour - 310 Grams, 296.7 SW, 318 Balance
They swing the exact same, it is great. I currently have Silver 7 Tour in both, but it lowers the SW under 325 and so far I prefer the gravities right around 330. So unless that opinion changes i will probably put max power rough 1.25 in next.
Brando
Professional
That brings you a noice 160-162rw, @Power Player. I know you're not following my RW Table, but your biomechanics seem drawn to the digits, nevertheless!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah I definitely checked that table out, and I do always seem to gravitate to that 160 range, which is pretty ideal for my height. But most importantly the spec is really balanced and works as well from the baseline as it does at net, which is what I need. Plus more HL balance seems to sync up with my serve timing as well. So I am pretty good to go with this spec range.
Brando
Professional
I know you get it, @Power Player, but some don't understand that my table is merely a starting point, a way to narrow the mass of frames out there down to those few that will come through naturally for you, especially if you have a loose, modern swing (which makes the racquet's weight distribution all the more key). After that, if one's key spec preferences aren't met, whether they be beam width or balance, then the frame might as well be an over-sized paperweight. Anyway, I gotta say, I marvel at how you managed to get a Gravity pro and a Gravity Tour to (essentially) exactly the same Big-3 specs!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
It was a lot of luck with getting a slightly underspec Tour shipped to the US combined with a really cool local tennis shop that weighed out a bunch of Pros for me and sold me one that weighed 310 stock. So I had my fingers crossed while that Tour sat in customs. Once it showed up and I specced it out with the briffidi, I was quite happy because the mod was very easy - 3 grams across tip and 4 in the buttcap nailed it.
Brando
Professional
I was looking at TW's stated specs for these frames and trying to figure how you did it, you know, as an intellectual exercise. Answer: planning, luck, and a good pro shop. Well played. So now you have an essentially matched pair of racquets. But the Pro has a 20mm box beam and the Tour a 22mm. Tell me, how differently do they play? And did something unexpected emerge from this beyond a difference in power?
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Power Player
Bionic Poster
Not a huge difference so far to me besides feel. Oddly enough now I feel like the Pro has a bit more power, but maybe that impression will change over time. Nothing unexpected, they play very similar to me, but the Pro is super connected to the ball, which I believe helps my accuracy.
The Tour feels more like an old Classic head. Very soft and plush. You can feel it bend a little more, really quality layup. It's like choosing between a Yonex Percept and a Head Prestige, except the Gravity Tour has the Head DNA feel to it, while the Percept is more classic Yonex. But I think the Tour weighted up like this is very comparable to the 310 Vcore Pro/Percept. I prefer the Head feel and Head gripshape more so I prefer thr Tour in this case.
Between the 2 I would say the Pro is still my #1 for now on match day, but I would have no problem switching to the Tour if a string breaks.
Brando
Professional
I'd say that classifies as an unexpected result, a 20mm beam being more powerful than a virtually identical 22. Could it be that you feel you can 'hit away' a bit more freely with the Pro? [And, yes, I too love that Head racquet feel...]
