Why so many swimming world records?
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Vermillion
Banned
Why so many medals for swimming?
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Because there are different events. Duh. Just like asking why so many medals for shooting, archery, weightlifting.
I love the rip swimming gets...
And it has nothing to do with suit technology otherwise everyone would be wearing the new Lazr suit and full body at that. Athletes are just getting stronger and training more. Back in the 80's people just didnt train 6 hrs a day like these people do. Nowadays, they do, everyday (including xmas).
Vermillion
Banned
ah thanks, "events" I was looking for that word.
Morpheus
Professional
There have been 38 world records set since Speedo introduced its LZR Racer suit in February. A study has shown that the suits lowered times by 1.9 to 2.2 percent--the equivalent of about one second in a freestyle 100 meter race, due to the lower drag.
This was before the Olympics. That's a lot of records in a short time. I don't buy the "better training" answer.
formerblakefan
Rookie
A lot of people are saying that the water cube was designed to be the fastest pool in the world. They have 10 lanes instead of 8 to reduce the drag on the swimmers' bodies...
check out the rest...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93478073
check out the rest...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93478073
formerblakefan
Rookie
Great find!
Kobble
Hall of Fame
Sydney Aquatic Center was a fast pool with much of the same advantages, but nobody went this fast. Something is different, and it seems like guys are focusing on the starts and turns more. I watched a documentary of Alevander Popov, and his coach talked about how swimmers have maxed out the stroke, and maybe the next great advancement is simply a taller swimmer and greater conservation of speed off the walls. I'm guessing that, the pool, the suits, and adding chemicals to the body are the answer. Now, I have heard that salt water produces faster long distance times that non-salt water. Probably due to less energy wasted on the kick. However, I do not know how it affects sprint times where a six beat kick or greater is used.
I oppose the technology. Compete in fin swimming, or use hand paddles if you want to cheat.
I oppose the technology. Compete in fin swimming, or use hand paddles if you want to cheat.
Tennis Musician
New User
I read an article in the Miami newspaper that this pool is going to be the fastest ever, because of the surperior technology in its construction. I follow swimming 2 times every 4 years, the trials then the Olympics, so I'm not an expert.
stormholloway
Legend
I heard they're using slower clocks.
It's the pool, it's the suits, and it's just evolution. Records get broken, it happens in every sport. Phelps is even crushing his own world records, set when he had access to all this technology. I think it's just a covergence of the three things that are making tons of records drop this olympics.
crazytennis
Semi-Pro
Phelps does the kicking of the wall better than anybody in the pool right now.
I've also read reports that the new Speedo thing lowers the time by 2% which is pretty significant considering the times aren't not that much.
LawnChairGeneral
Rookie
they shorten the length of the pool by a few inches every 4 years. keeps the sport more "entertaining".
or shall i be the first to drop the doping accusation?!
or shall i be the first to drop the doping accusation?!
Tennis Musician
New User
I want to know if the same swimmers are still on top from past years or have things changed. You see how Phelps is the best now and back at Athens he was the best, so it's not really the swimmers because it doesn't seem like the ranking of best swimmers are changing, if there are rankings for swimmers. The technology is making everything faster. If the same swimmers continue to win, and the same swimmers continue to finish in the same postion against the same opponents then the technology is the only thing affecting the speed and results.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Congrats then, Speedo loves people like you, buying into technology. Tell me, do you buy the Arena new Powerskins too? They supposedly repel water :rollseyes:
Ive been to Olympics Trials. Some of the fastest swims ive seen were using a mere speedo. I asked why not the new Fastskin II's and such, the reply was they simply didnt like them and they didn't go faster with them. I asked my teammates what they were wearing and most were just going in a speedo. Why? Its just a mental thing. I have a better suit therefore I win.
Morpheus
Professional
^^ Read the other posts. There appear to be a variety of factors, the most significant of which is probably the way the pool was designed.
From the article posted earlier in the thread:
"In fact, new technology lately has focused on high-tech swimming suits that decrease resistance. Those suits and a fast pool and the intensely competitive atmosphere of the Olympics mean more records are likely to fall in Beijing."
The records are just falling, they are getting creamed. In some cases, two or three swimmers are beating the world record.
From the article posted earlier in the thread:
"In fact, new technology lately has focused on high-tech swimming suits that decrease resistance. Those suits and a fast pool and the intensely competitive atmosphere of the Olympics mean more records are likely to fall in Beijing."
The records are just falling, they are getting creamed. In some cases, two or three swimmers are beating the world record.
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Nuke
Hall of Fame
In one of the relays, five teams in the finals beat the world record. Imagine being on the 4th or 5th place team -- you beat the WR and are left off the podium.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Unlike other sports like Track and Field, swimmers qualify for the next round based on timing, not position in heats. And the heats are divided based on timing too so the fastest go into one heat.
This _could_ also promote personal bests, ORs, WRs. etc. Pls note that records have often fallen before the finals too.
Just a thought that occured to me
- a possible contributory factor.
Or maybe, they've done some Fengshui hocus pocus on the pool to make it fast. ;-)
This _could_ also promote personal bests, ORs, WRs. etc. Pls note that records have often fallen before the finals too.
Just a thought that occured to me
- a possible contributory factor.
Or maybe, they've done some Fengshui hocus pocus on the pool to make it fast. ;-)
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
You stated that the suits somehow dropped seconds off...which is impossible. However, I do agree with the laneline technology and the pool technology, miliseconds are possible.
crazytennis
Semi-Pro
The suit reduces drag. Less drag, swimmer moves faster.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the info. Im an Olympic trials swimmer so I know what I'm talking about. The suits help MENTALLY. Its all mental. A person who has not trained and puts on a suit will not magically drop time.
Morpheus
Professional
A study was apparently completed (although I have not seen it) that demonstrated a statistically significant improvement of 1.9% to 2.2%, which translates to about a 1 second improvement over 100 meters (freestyle). That's a big number and, if true, would result in a lot of new world records.
To your last point about a "magical" drop in time, consider that the Australian Eamon Sullivan, who was fifth in the 50-meter freestyle at last year's global meet, broke the world record three times in less than six weeks in a Speedo. Alain Bernard, who didn't make the 100-meter freestyle final, broke that record twice in two days. Seems like even average swimmers are improving.
anchorsteamer
Rookie
The suit makes a big difference both mentally and in regards to resistance. This in conjunction with the pool is making for some great times (not to mention Phelps is certainly raising the bar and the people around him). It seems like Swimming was simply waiting for a technological breakthrough...it came (the new suit) and its making all the difference.
SempreSami
Hall of Fame
And then you went home and played Nintendo I suppose :roll:
chess9
Hall of Fame
1. Speedo suits;
2. Pool design, including better non-turbulent lane lines, deeper and quieter water, higher pool edges, quiet lanes at sides of pool;
3. Constantly improving understanding of swimming dynamics;
4. Improving training on form;
5. Improved training methods;
6. Better nutrition, including supplements, which have made the swimmers taller and stronger; a long hull is faster than a short hull;
7. Improved competition because of the above.
We are probably closing in the limits of improvement in the water. And, remember, before this Olympics, Janet Evans still held 2 Olympic records.
-Robert
2. Pool design, including better non-turbulent lane lines, deeper and quieter water, higher pool edges, quiet lanes at sides of pool;
3. Constantly improving understanding of swimming dynamics;
4. Improving training on form;
5. Improved training methods;
6. Better nutrition, including supplements, which have made the swimmers taller and stronger; a long hull is faster than a short hull;
7. Improved competition because of the above.
We are probably closing in the limits of improvement in the water. And, remember, before this Olympics, Janet Evans still held 2 Olympic records.
-Robert
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Kobble
Hall of Fame
I want the details of the study. If the suit material cuts surface friction by 2% over skin, that is one thing, but if it cuts 2% of total drag on a swimmer...That has to make a difference.
I still woudln't rule out hGH. I never knew that stuff could make your hands and feet bigger after 30 years of age. That is just what a swimmer ordered.
Morpheus
Professional
There are many references to a study. You are correct. 2% is a huge difference--about as much as doping from what I understand.
Here is one (plus some interesting facts that suggest the rapid pace of records has more to do with fitness or one fast pool:
From Sports Illustrated On-Line:
...In the first six months of 2004, the last Summer Olympic year, one long-course world record was broken. Twenty such marks have fallen this year, 19 of them to swimmers wearing LZR Racers. The most eye-popping times have come in the men's 50 free. The record of 21.64 seconds set by Russia's Alexander Popov in 2000 now seems like a leisurely paddle: Last winter the standard was broken four times in six weeks by LZR-clad swimmers; Australia's Eamon Sullivan finally lopped it down to 21.28 in March. "Those times are otherworldly," says Phil Whitten, executive director of the College Swimming Coaches Association of America. "You wouldn't expect that kind of improvement for another 30 or 40 years."
Whitten and writer Craig Lord of The Times of London have analyzed the results of athletes swimming with and without the LZR. "We calculate that [the suit] makes a difference of about 1.9 percent to 2.2 percent, with greater effect in shorter races," says Whitten. "That's a lot."
S
SOUTHPAWZ
Guest
The pool was specially built to make the water easier to swim in.
fluffy Beaver
Professional
So you watch Olympic trials, then you participate in them? Get your story straight or stop bsing to help your argument.
Nvm go back to playing Nintendo.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
There is great maturity shown on this forum. I participated in Olympic Trials. The 50m freestyle. Unlike most of you dolts and couch potatoes on this board, I chose to do something with my time other than schoolwork. True I barely made the cut and there was no chance I would ever see Beijing, but being around athletes of that caliber who put in that much work was amazing and something most of you keyboard commandos will never experience.
So before you attack me and go tell me to "go play my Nintendo", kindly get your facts straight. But oh well, whats the point? This is just an internet forum...
And btw fluffy, I said I went, and the next post I said I participated. Did you pass 3rd grade reading comprehension? I WENT and I PARTICIPATED. Jeez....the intelligence level here nowadays.
So before you attack me and go tell me to "go play my Nintendo", kindly get your facts straight. But oh well, whats the point? This is just an internet forum...
And btw fluffy, I said I went, and the next post I said I participated. Did you pass 3rd grade reading comprehension? I WENT and I PARTICIPATED. Jeez....the intelligence level here nowadays.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
Morpheus, I appreciate you researching those numbers however those are the same numbers they pull everyyear. I remember when I was swimming the Fastskin I came out and claimed the same thing, then the Fastskin II. Some of the fastest guys I knew broke records in the Fastskin I brief...
HOWEVER, I do agree that suit technology makes a difference. Its among many other variable factors. That being said, a guy who hasn't trained cant put on a suit and magically drop time.
tacotanium
Professional
you guys think the chinese shorten their pools by a foot or two???
fluffy Beaver
Professional
You previously said it was mental now you say it does make a difference.
I believe I am right that you are confused that you watched rather than participated in this "Olympic trial".
Go back and play your track and field nintendo.
fluffy Beaver
Professional
WHICH IS IT Dasha????
D
Deleted member 25923
Guest
The new suits were said to be the greatest innovation in sports in the last thousand years. This was said by a guy on NBC before one of the swimming events
It reduces drag for one and allows you to go faster. That is one of the reasons that the world records are falling nearly every time.
A little unfair IMO, because unlike tennis, where say a record for fastest serve isn't as important, a record in swimming seems like a lot more significant because it's basically shows how good you are at the sport.
It reduces drag for one and allows you to go faster. That is one of the reasons that the world records are falling nearly every time.
A little unfair IMO, because unlike tennis, where say a record for fastest serve isn't as important, a record in swimming seems like a lot more significant because it's basically shows how good you are at the sport.
CyBorg
Legend
I bet Spitz is pissed with NBC's coverage. They're already calling Phelps the greatest swimmer ever - even the greatest olympic athlete.
Spitz, of course, would be the first to point out that he swam in all seven events in 1972 and that we would have swam in the eighth one had it existed. After that he retired and the only other time he swam at the Olympics (save the comeback in Barcelona in 1992) he was 18.
So one could dispute that Phelps is better.
Spitz, of course, would be the first to point out that he swam in all seven events in 1972 and that we would have swam in the eighth one had it existed. After that he retired and the only other time he swam at the Olympics (save the comeback in Barcelona in 1992) he was 18.
So one could dispute that Phelps is better.
anchorsteamer
Rookie
There is no dispute...Phelps is better...the guy is a beast. As for the records, what we're seeing is the stars aligning: A perfect pool combined with a radical technological improvement (in a sport that hadn't seen much technological change) and several transcendent stars that are raising the bar and bringing everyone with them...
Kobble
Hall of Fame
Comapring Spits to Phelps is apples to oranges. Spitz was a better swimmer overall in the fly and freestyle for his time, Phelps is just a middle distance guy in everything but the 100m fly (which he doesn't hold the WR in). Phelps has a groove at around 200m, and anything that contains the fly. I don't think he can maintain 10m walls at 400m, and he doesn't have the speed in anything shorter.
chess9
Hall of Fame
I don't think the swimsuits are that big a component of the records. They are a small part of the answer.
Why do I think that? Well, I've read some of the studies on aerodynamics on the bike, and hydrodynamics in the water. For instance, on the bike a skinsuit makes a very small difference, compared to, say, whether you lift or lower your head or hands a centimeter, or have a water bottle on your bike! Notice Coughlin's one wall in the freestyle last night where she was on her side with her arms pulled tightly over her head. That one wall, executed perfectly, could have dropped her time by .5 seconds compared to a lousy turn. Swimming is like playing the violin. Technique is extremely important. Yet, when you watch swimmers under water, you see a lot of mistakes being made by the fastest swimmers. This leaves room for more records in the future, but we are closing in on the limits, IMHO.
The importance of technique was first appreciated by swim coaches about 70 years ago, but research into swimming dynamics is only about 20 years old. Today, every top swim coach reads literally hundreds of articles and studies on swimming each year. Coaching clinics are loaded with technical form issues on things like front quadrant swimming, angular velocity of ankles in the breaststroke, etc. Coaches are getting better!
http://swimmingresearchnews.com/
http://swimmingtechnology.com/
http://web.mac.com/htoussaint/SwimSite/Welcome.html
The other big change is SIZE. The difference between Phelps and Spitz is about 5 or 6 inches. Length alone will make you faster, holding everything else constant. Notice how tall the 100 free sprinters are.
And then there is power, which is part of the new training methods. If you look at the builds of swimmers in the 1970's and earlier, you see smaller builds than you see now. Today's swimmers are very powerful-a result of the impact of hard lifting regimes and modern supplements like creatine, beta alanine, stand alone amino acids, etc. Also, modern interval training builds power. These kids are very very strong.
Are illegal drugs being used in swimming? I don't think many swimmers are using them because of the culture in swimming and the lack of positive drug tests among 99% of the Olympic swimmers.
This is an interesting topic, for sure, and these are simply my observations and opinions.
-Robert
Morpheus
Professional
I understand that Spitz is a bit miffed that he wasn't invited to come to the Olympics to see his record broken, even though he is considered one of the top Olympians in history and most other top Olympians were invited. I wonder what the back story is here...
Morpheus
Professional
Spitz is 6'1" and Phelps is 6'4". I don't know how significant height is compared to technique etc. More significantly, I think, is that Phelps' wingspan is 6'7" -- longer than expected given his height. I don't know about Spitz on this metric.