albino smurf
Professional
That didn't take long. Monday, September 1, 2008 is going to go down as a doozy for the RNC. Fizzling convention, hurricane and now Juno goes to Washington. What a great holiday.
Palins 17 y.o. daughter pregnant
- Thread starter albino smurf
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superstition
Hall of Fame
A little premarital sex and out of wedlock teenage pregnancy never stopped someone from claiming the moral high ground before, eh? After all, Palin is supposed to be a delightful choice for Christian conservatives.
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
And castigating people for being "judgmental" never stopped many democrats from being misogynistic and sexist when it comes to Sarah Palin and her family either.
It's ironic that those that criticize others for hypocritically taking the higher moral ground have abandoned their own moral authority by judgmentally calling Palin a bad parent and unfit mother, purely for their own selfish gain.
It's ironic that those that criticize others for hypocritically taking the higher moral ground have abandoned their own moral authority by judgmentally calling Palin a bad parent and unfit mother, purely for their own selfish gain.
albino smurf
Professional
That is funny. LOL.
power_play21
Semi-Pro
wow. might as well elect britney spears mom to vice presidency too.
Talk about putting the ol' blinders on. This is ridiculous.
Dude, stop arguing about the argument and just start looking at the facts. This isn't about Democrat vs. Republican. This is about the social direction (or misdirection) that the VP candidate has apparently given to her own daughter. If she can't do better than that with her own family, what makes you think that the American people would want her handling serious global political issues for the entire country?
You know damn well that if she were the Democratic VP candidate, you'd be all over this issue like white on rice. And you would NEVER hear the end of it from Rush Limbloat, "female impersonator" Ann Coulter, and the other Republikkkan righties.
superstition
Hall of Fame
I'm sure she opposes marriage, gay marriage that is, so everything will be A-OK.
Fee
Legend
Never hire anyone after just a phone interview.
In the small picture, as it pertains to Sarah Palin, this is irrelevant, except for the humor of it. In the big picture, it's time for the Republicans/Conservatives to please stop acting like the Democrats/Liberals are the only people in this country who have sex or want to have sex, married or not. It's just such a joke.
This is one teenage pregnancy and until the Palin family says more about it, it needs to be left alone. Perhaps this was a perfectly educated couple whose method failed despite taking all necessary precautions, it happens. So what? Get over it and move on.
In the small picture, as it pertains to Sarah Palin, this is irrelevant, except for the humor of it. In the big picture, it's time for the Republicans/Conservatives to please stop acting like the Democrats/Liberals are the only people in this country who have sex or want to have sex, married or not. It's just such a joke.
This is one teenage pregnancy and until the Palin family says more about it, it needs to be left alone. Perhaps this was a perfectly educated couple whose method failed despite taking all necessary precautions, it happens. So what? Get over it and move on.
superstition
Hall of Fame
Um, no. She and people like her make careers out of condemning marriages/family for/of gay people. They make careers out of claiming the moral high ground. But, when their daughters have premarital sex and out of wedlock pregnancy, suddenly it's a "blessing" and a "private matter".
Sorry, Fee. I rarely disagree with you, but you're throwing the baby out with the bath water here. We're talking about high politics in America and matters of grave importance. Every one of these people who serve as an expose for the hypocrisy should do so to the fullest extent. Something is always an "amoral sin" as long as it's someone else's family.
Your objection isn't much different from Lynn Cheney calling Kerry a "bad man" for discussing Mary Cheney's lesbianism. The Cheneys want to have their cake and eat it to. They want to condemn homosexual Americans and hurt families with gay kids and yet they want their "privacy respected" so they can "have a good relationship with their daughter".
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Fee
Legend
Gay marriage and teen pregnancy are NOT related. Speeding tickets and gay marriage are not related either. Only stupid people buy the high moral ground shtick from the Republicans these days. Okay, there are a lot of stupid people out there, that's why Jerry Falwell and his ilk are rich, but this is yet another distraction from the REAL issues of this election.
I see you edited your post as I was writing my reply. I'll leave mine as is.
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superstition
Hall of Fame
Oh, they're definitely related. Premarital sex (fornication) is lumped in as part of the "sexual debauchery/decadence" that liberalism (with its gay civil equality) is supposed to promote and conservatism is supposed to stand against.
The two are inextricably linked in American politics, right down to the way sodomy has referred not only to gay sex but to non-procreative sex acts between heterosexuals. According to Christian conservatism, there is one appropriate form of sex act - missionary position between husband and wife.
The two are inextricably linked in American politics, right down to the way sodomy has referred not only to gay sex but to non-procreative sex acts between heterosexuals. According to Christian conservatism, there is one appropriate form of sex act - missionary position between husband and wife.
I totally agree with Superstition. The Republican party over the past few years have made it a habit to appeal to the Conservative Christians by taking the moral high ground (or claiming they do). This, obviously is what a Christian would dread, a teenage pregnancy. If the Republicans are still trying to take the high ground, the voters should atleast get to know that the Party is straightface lying to them.
Watch the daughter get an abortion, I'd almost **** myself with laughter if that happened and the Republicans still tried to appeal to the Conservative Christians.
Watch the daughter get an abortion, I'd almost **** myself with laughter if that happened and the Republicans still tried to appeal to the Conservative Christians.
superstition
Hall of Fame
That would never happen. Instead, what's happening is the incident is being referred to as a blessing (changing the topic from premarital fornication to the infant), the announcement was made that the daughter is keeping the baby (an anti-abortion reference), the announcement was made that the girl is getting married ("pro marriage"), and requests are being made for privacy (no debate).
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You are right. The right would have a field day with pregnant teenage duaghters and a mother of a handicapped infant taking on a full time gig criss-crossing the nation, and EC might have joined in. But since she's a Republican, suddenly she gets all sorts of benefits of the doubt and excuses made for her.
Seems to happen a lot in that family.
Fee
Legend
What specifically do you mean by this comment?
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
Dude! This is about the level of sophisticated thinking I expected to encounter when going into the morally confused underbelly of liberal thinking. But it's still depressing to see so much dull thinking out there.
Is every parent in America responsible for the bad choices their children make or is it just the ones you don't like? How about you? Ever been in trouble? (everyone has)
I guess your parents did a real Effed Up job then, right?
I suppose that also makes Al Gore a terrible father because his son has a pot bust, drunk driving arrest and reckless driving citation (for doing 94 mph in N. Carolina).
So much for your even handedness.
Hey, those righties do it. So any asinine stupid comment I make is justified,right?
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Fee
Legend
I see. Well, I can't say. I know very devout Christian families with 8 or more children, they don't use any form of birth control at all and just let nature take it's course. The Palins could be one of those families, we just don't know.
superstition
Hall of Fame
You asked for sophisticated thought and yet post such simpleminded things.
It's about the danger of claiming the moral high ground in American politics. You, know, the Emperor's New Clothes and all that? Again and again we've seen these morality crusaders (like David Vitter, the leading senator for the Senate's anti-gay politics) exposed for things like banging DC hookers. Yet, people continue to make excuses for the hypocrisy.
Instead of promoting discrimination against gay families, under the guise of Christian conservatism (who simultaneously condemns the "blessing" of premarital fornication), people like Palin should take a look in the mirror. This is like the deal with the Cheneys all over again.
superstition
Hall of Fame
Which, given the serious problem of global overpopulation (and the fact that Americans per capita consume and waste more resources) is an amoral position. People shouldn't be having 8 children. They should start adopting after one or two.
This is just another example of how backward beliefs can carry their own price tag of hypocritical amorality—why people need to start looking at the big picture instead of just looking at fragments of the past.
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Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
What?? Ad hominem? From you?
Let me point out that trying to be better morally doesn't guarantee perfection. It's something you strive for but never attain. That's one thing you should keep in mind.
You should also bear in mind, while you are doing your little Snoopy dance of glee, that the left is also abandoning it's moral authority by bashing the character of an independent minded woman because (A) she had a child (oh, the shame,oh what a crime) and (B) now we learn her teen aged daughter is pregnant. What's next? The Scarlet Letter? The stocks?
You'd better look real hard in the mirror before you begin criticizing her daughter for her mistake. Maybe you've made one or two in your life. And I already know you'll say, yeah but I don't preach morality, blah blah blah. But you do. It's just a different sort. One that says we have no right to judge the lives of others when this whole Palin witch hunt is just exactly that.
We can have a discussion about gay marriage, again, and how it isn't discrimination since marriage is inerently a male/female deal. Would you like that?
I don't see how the Palins have anything to answer for. There are a lot of judgmental hypocrites out there.
superstition
Hall of Fame
Oh, so sophisticated.
Especially when trying to be "better".
Actually, that would be a discussion about faulty logic.
Fee
Legend
Good luck trying to convince America that Mr and Mrs Palin are bad people becuase they are a married couple that doesn't use birth control. That rule only applies to low income couples.
That's not even close to what I said, nor what might be inferred from my post. That's just ranting.
My point is that the right-wingers of this nation latch onto anything that the Democrats do that's even the slightest bit of an issue and treat it as though it's the worst thing in the world. Anything. Hell, I've listened to Rush Limbloat spend almost an entire HOUR on what Nancy Pelosi LOOKS LIKE. I've seen entire political newspaper articles talk about what Hillary Clinton was WEARING at a speech and whether or not it was "appropriate."
So for you, clearly espousing the self-proclaimed right-wing agenda of prudence and highly-moral principles, to deny that there might be ANY issue with this 17-year old pregnancy is absolutely ludicrous.
Or maybe I'm just too dumb to understand. You seem to be the authority of the high-brow debate club around here, so maybe you can all teach us a lesson on how this is a "non-issue?"
superstition
Hall of Fame
I'm not interested in convincing anyone they're "bad". I'm interested in people learning about morality so they stop preying on gay people and their families/friends/society and stop overpopulating the planet. I'm interested in people learning so things like only less than 1% of the global HIV prevention budget targets gay/bi men don't happen. I'm interested in people learning so they don't ban gay men from donating sperm due to the unscientific prejudicial notion that somehow allowing them to be fathers would increase the number of gay people.
It's a fact that Americans waste and consume more resources than anyone else, by a large margin. Bringing eight more Americans into the world per family is not moral. Plus, we have a global overpopulation problem and a lot of hungry kids who need rich American families to adopt them, or to use the money they would be spending on all those kids to buy food and compensate people for their work (instead of privatization of all resources by global corporations so they have to dig holes by the side of roads for drinking water).
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
And accurate too, I might add.
Who doesn't want to be better?
If you mean on my part you've yet to come anywhere near to making that case.
And you've tried and given up and failed many times.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Tell that to all the AA women having all those kids out of wedlock.
superstition
Hall of Fame
Out of wedlock pregnancy, eh? Sounds familiar.
superstition
Hall of Fame
Whaat, whaat?? You're breaking up. .... snoopy..... .... faulty ..... eh?
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
That's true but I've yet to ever read one word about Ann Coulter on these boards without the words
"horseface" or "enormous Adam's Apple" thrown in. Please stop and think how hypocritical it is to argue about how democrats are treated.
it isn't an exclusively republican trait. If you think it is, you'd better stop and consider a woman who has been mercilessly pilloried
all for the "crime" of having a handicapped child. See if you can beat that!
I didn't realize anyone was for 17 year olds getting pregnant. Because you preach a value doesn't mean you'll end up being morally infallible. We are all human, after all. I think it's even more hypocritical to scream at others to quit being so judgmental and then to be just that!
It is an issue, if you want to make it one. I hope you were just as hard on Al Gore when his drunk(been arrested), fat pot smoking(been arrested again) son was arrested, yet again, for doing 94mph on a N. Carolina interstate.
Because if now parents are liable for their kid's misbehavior, unless Al Gore approves of Al jr.'s antics, then I want to hear Al get his too.
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Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
This is why you aren't a credible thinker.
Not remotely. And an ad hominem invoking hypocrite too.
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stormholloway
Legend
Exactamundo.
This wouldn't be an issue at all IF the Republicans weren't guilty of condemning such acts themselves. They want it both ways. This is an absolute Godsend for the Dems.
Bottom line is that the Republikkkans do everything they can to cast aspersions at the Democrats for every issue, no matter how major or minor, but when the tables are turned against them, their only defense is, "Oh, look at those lousy Democrats turning every personal situation into a political issue. Shame on them for resorting to such 'dirty' politics."
It's actually quite amusing. And depressing.
By the way, Mr. Enlightened, you mentioned Al Gore's son. Do you REALLY want to get into a t!t-for-tat with the children of our past (or current) Presidents (or would-be Presidents)????
Really??? I suggest you look no further than the current First Family. There are enough skeletons in that closet to fill a cemetery.
It's actually quite amusing. And depressing.
By the way, Mr. Enlightened, you mentioned Al Gore's son. Do you REALLY want to get into a t!t-for-tat with the children of our past (or current) Presidents (or would-be Presidents)????
Really??? I suggest you look no further than the current First Family. There are enough skeletons in that closet to fill a cemetery.
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
Gee, maybe you're right.
You'd never see the democrats arguing both sides of an issue. ("experience is overrated, doesn't matter at all...no wait, Palin has no experience, she can't be trusted"):roll:
Both parties take sides depending on if it behooves them or not. The question is, is a teenage pregnancy a legitimate campaign issue? We'll see if the democrats are rewarded for not only throwing the first stone here, but the first boulders.
I realize there are some low life types here that have no qualms about exploiting anything for political gain. But how is ganging up on a mother for having a handicapped child and then going after her teen-aged daughter going to play across America?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this tactic back fires, big time.
You'd never see the democrats arguing both sides of an issue. ("experience is overrated, doesn't matter at all...no wait, Palin has no experience, she can't be trusted"):roll:
Both parties take sides depending on if it behooves them or not. The question is, is a teenage pregnancy a legitimate campaign issue? We'll see if the democrats are rewarded for not only throwing the first stone here, but the first boulders.
I realize there are some low life types here that have no qualms about exploiting anything for political gain. But how is ganging up on a mother for having a handicapped child and then going after her teen-aged daughter going to play across America?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this tactic back fires, big time.
Fee
Legend
Al Gore's son is an adult, living on his own. He is responsible for his own actions. The Gores did what they could to raise their children, send them to college and send them out into the world. They have a pretty good batting average as far as families go.
Sarah Palin's daughter is still a minor, still in the home, still under the influence of her parents. As I said before, we don't know what happened. Perhaps her parents sat at the kitchen table with her, talking about biology and putting condoms on zucchini. Perhaps she was already on the pill and it failed because of some other medication or whatever. We don't know and its silly to make assumptions. Also, I have no idea how Sarah Palin feels about sex before marriage. Has she been quoted on this subject in the past or is everyone just assuming she has a stance because she is a Republican?
Sarah Palin's daughter is still a minor, still in the home, still under the influence of her parents. As I said before, we don't know what happened. Perhaps her parents sat at the kitchen table with her, talking about biology and putting condoms on zucchini. Perhaps she was already on the pill and it failed because of some other medication or whatever. We don't know and its silly to make assumptions. Also, I have no idea how Sarah Palin feels about sex before marriage. Has she been quoted on this subject in the past or is everyone just assuming she has a stance because she is a Republican?
Ignorant Genius
Banned
Fee
Legend
Do you mean Andre Agassi fans, or are you really going to make the mistake that the only women in this country having children outside of marriage are from one group?
Ignorant Genius
Banned
TonyB;2667024 Really??? I suggest you look no further than the current First Family. There are enough skeletons in that closet to fill a cemetery.[/QUOTE said:
Fee
Legend
No, I was responding to Superstition. I never said that they don't, I said PERHAPS they believe in letting nature take its course. I don't care either way, they are married, they can do what they want.
As for the 'spouting off' takes one to know one.
Ignorant Genius
Banned
So basically, it's all about you. Nice selfish attitude you've got there.
Ignorant Genius
Banned
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
Oh no Brer Fox! Don't go after the Bush children!!! Anything but that.
This is funny and goes under the title heading, Unfamiliar With the Concept.
It goes like this. You go after Sarah Palin for having a pregnant teen aged daughter (as if that were a crime). Then I say, are you sure you want to hold parents responsible for their kid's behavior, citing Gore.
And then you threaten to start a flame war by using the Bush kids.
What do you expect out of a clever guy that uses republikkkans as a catch word? I could never make a dent in your thick skull with reason. I just want others to know how your B.S. smells when you spread it around and then complain about others.
Ignorant Genius
Banned
She's going to be Secretary of State.
Fee
Legend
(pretend there's a post from superstition right here saying that everyone should use birth control because of global overpopulation)
Which post? Did you read my posts? Did you understand them in the context of the conversation that they took place in? Do you need help with this?
Damn, I missed a post from superstition. gahhhhhh
Enlightened Coelacanth
Rookie
His was first arrested when he was under aged. First for drunk driving and then for doing 97 in a 55 mph zone.
The point is was his father responsible for the actions of this often arrested screwed up kid?
If people want to be intellectually consistent then they would have to say yes, if they want to flay Palin for her daughter's actions.
Why is it silly to make assumptions when given a set of facts? Based on the information we know about this woman and her stances on various issues, I'd bet anything that the Palins didn't break out the zucchini for a biology lesson or the Palin youngster's birth control pills "failed". I'd also bet anything that Sarah Palin is against pre-marital sex for teenage girls, including her own.
Ignorant Genius
Banned
Nice reasoning, Fee.
Ignorant Genius
Banned
You know the old quote about assumptions...
And you discuss a "set of facts" when the only "facts" you have are what you've read on the internet.
Yep, you're credible.
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