Federer (Genius)- Nadal (New Tomas Muster)

A

abudhabi tennis

New User
The match highlights the genius of Roger Federer.
The beauty of the serve, the poetry of his forehand, the grace of his backhand and wonderful volleys. His footwork was immaculate. Overall, this was tennis at its best. Tennis to perfection.

There has never and may never will be anyone as graceful as him. It is exactly why he is admired and appereciated.

His style of play is pure genius. Does not require brute strength or muscles because his technique is flawlwess.He does not need oversized kids racquets. He is Super- Federer. When he is on, healthy( no Mono), Mr. Federer is a tennis god, a legend.

When we grow old, and reminise of Tennis greats- Mr. Federer will always be at the top. No one is going to remember Nadal, Murray, Djokovic.

Back to Madrid, the match clearly showed that Nadal is the New Tomas Muster. Players are catching on to his game. Next year the clay court Masters are up for grabs. His dominance on Grass and hardcourts will be seriously challenged this year.
His game needs to improve, his mental strenght may not be enough to win matches anymore.
 
veroniquem

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
I will remember Nadal's matches better than any other player's because of the intensity and drama in a lot of them, because of his unparalleled fighting spirit and his spectacular shots.
Congrats to Muster on his 6 slams on 3 different surfaces and 15 masters. That is a tremendous achievement!
 
cknobman

cknobman

Legend
I have to try and believe the op was trying to be cute and ironical

otherwise the op has some serious issues and needs medical attention immediately.
 
Mick

Mick

Legend
abudhabi tennis said:
When we grow old, and reminise of Tennis greats- Mr. Federer will always be at the top. No one is going to remember Nadal, Murray, Djokovic.
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or we can remember nadal as the player who prevented federer from achieving a career grand slam, that is unless federer manages to win the FO before he retires.
 
D

Dutch-Guy

Legend
Fed wins 1 finals on claay and his fans get carried away.*Sigh*.I'll bump this thread when Fed's brandwagon gets derailed in Paris.
 
A

abudhabi tennis

New User
never said he will win FO, though he has a good chance for Wimbledon and USO.
Just admire the beauty and genius of his overall game. Beauty usually does not win slams, but in his case it does.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
abudhabi tennis said:
The match highlights the genius of Roger Federer.
The beauty of the serve, the poetry of his forehand, the grace of his backhand and wonderful volleys. His footwork was immaculate. Overall, this was tennis at its best. Tennis to perfection.

There has never and may never will be anyone as graceful as him. It is exactly why he is admired and appereciated.

His style of play is pure genius. Does not require brute strength or muscles because his technique is flawlwess.He does not need oversized kids racquets. He is Super- Federer. When he is on, healthy( no Mono), Mr. Federer is a tennis god, a legend.

When we grow old, and reminise of Tennis greats- Mr. Federer will always be at the top. No one is going to remember Nadal, Murray, Djokovic.

Back to Madrid, the match clearly showed that Nadal is the New Tomas Muster. Players are catching on to his game. Next year the clay court Masters are up for grabs. His dominance on Grass and hardcourts will be seriously challenged this year.
His game needs to improve, his mental strenght may not be enough to win matches anymore.
Click to expand...


Fed will be remembered as the guy that Nadal dominated in Slam finals to the tune of 5-2 and don't you forget it.

Fed desperately needs to improve as Nadal, Murray and Joker all own him now. He can't rely on Nadal being tired all the time for token wins.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
stormholloway said:
In what way?
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It's common for people to refer to Nadal as that guy who has "unparalleled fighting spirit". But this is also a way to kind of dismiss him. As in, "he's not really skilled; he's just really hard working and wins on that hard work alone."

In my opinion, Nadal is the greatest thinker in the game. You can't be a "genius" without the thinking part.

Nadal is particularly adept at picking up on his opponent's weaknesses and attacking them. He is also exceptional at making adjustments over the course of the match. He has an exceptional feel for the game, oustanding vision and awareness, and never seems to go on automatic. Most guys do - Federer included. When Nadal's in trouble he slows things down; most players have a tendency to speed things up - Federer included.

The label of 'genius' is often attached to Federer because he's a beautiful mover and shotmaker. But his biggest achilles heel are close matches whereby he is forced to play a sort of "game of chess" with his opponent, outthink him, outwit him. He's scared by these situations and admits himself that he far prefers to just dominate guys on pure skill. Nadal, conversely, constantly wins the mental battles.

Of course, Nadal's wonderful topspin groundies, underrated net play and seamless movement are also indicators of his "genius". If you can call it that.
 
vtmike

vtmike

Banned
babbette said:
it's funny how Fed fans were dissing him not long ago, now suddenly the ass kissing can't seem to stop.
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Honestly its just a couple of posters who are creating these threads...the rest of them are just enjoying his win and expecting Nadal to win the FO again...Maybe this year he might be stretched to five sets but he is the clear favorite to win RG...no question about that!
 
R

rocket

Hall of Fame
CyBorg said:
In my opinion, Nadal is the greatest thinker in the game. You can't be a "genius" without the thinking part.
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I agree with the second part but not the first. Fed is the greatest thinker of them all. He stopped using his head against Nadal, but now he's thinking again.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
rocket said:
I agree with the second part but not the first. Fed is the greatest thinker of them all. He stopped using his head against Nadal, but now he's thinking again.
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Right. The greatest thinker of them all decided to go on vacation.

Federer is incredibly overrated.
 
Blade0324

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
Have to say that Vtmike has a sensable post. I know he is a Fed fan and more power to him. At least he is classy about his comments and not trolling like the OP. I for one don't like Fed's style of play at all and don't see what the hype is about. I honestly won't remember him at all, on the other hand I will remember Nadal, Murray, Nole and even Verdasco much more than Fed. He just isn't what I like to watch but to each his own.
 
R

rocket

Hall of Fame
CyBorg said:
Right. The greatest thinker of them all decided to go on vacation.

Federer is incredibly overrated.
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Fed has a way to make every guy go for a little too much, everyone but Nadal. Against the lefty, he goes blow-for-blow instead of moving him side-to-side. You give Nadal rythm & he'll topspin you to death.
 
stormholloway

stormholloway

Legend
CyBorg said:
In my opinion, Nadal is the greatest thinker in the game. You can't be a "genius" without the thinking part.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty interesting opinion right here.

Nadal is particularly adept at picking up on his opponent's weaknesses and attacking them.
Click to expand...

Because he happens to hit his big forehand crosscourt into Federer's backhand? Nadal is just lucky to play left handed, or else he'd have far more trouble with Federer.

He is also exceptional at making adjustments over the course of the match.
Click to expand...

No he isn't. He simply "finds another gear". He doesn't make adjustments. He just tries harder.

He has an exceptional feel for the game, oustanding vision and awareness, and never seems to go on automatic. Most guys do - Federer included.
Click to expand...

Federer goes on automatic? He's the king of mixing things up. What a ridiculous statement. If anyone is on automatic it's Nadal. Nadal's plan is to hit big topspin shots into his opponent's weaker side until they either make a mistake or put a ball short.

When Nadal's in trouble he slows things down; most players have a tendency to speed things up - Federer included.
Click to expand...

Nadal slows things down from the beginning. He takes 40 takes between serves. That's not really a strategy as much as it is a (bad) habit.

The label of 'genius' is often attached to Federer because he's a beautiful mover and shotmaker. But his biggest achilles heel are close matches whereby he is forced to play a sort of "game of chess" with his opponent, outthink him, outwit him. He's scared by these situations and admits himself that he far prefers to just dominate guys on pure skill. Nadal, conversely, constantly wins the mental battles.
Click to expand...

So Federer is unable to be creative and intelligent on-court, unlike Nadal who is the better strategist? Ridiculous.

Of course, Nadal's wonderful topspin groundies, underrated net play and seamless movement are also indicators of his "genius". If you can call it that.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it that. Heavy topspin is not genius. Igor Andreev is not genius. He just goes "low to high" really well.

Give me a break. Do you really believe this crap?
 
B

BigServer1

Legend
TheNatural said:
Fed will be remembered as the guy that Nadal dominated in Slam finals to the tune of 5-2 and don't you forget it.

Fed desperately needs to improve as Nadal, Murray and Joker all own him now. He can't rely on Nadal being tired all the time for token wins.
Click to expand...

We all get TIRED of you using different sizes and variations on your text to try to prove your point.

Just type normally. Jesus...
 
jelle v

jelle v

Hall of Fame
vtmike said:
Honestly its just a couple of posters who are creating these threads...the rest of them are just enjoying his win and expecting Nadal to win the FO again...Maybe this year he might be stretched to five sets but he is the clear favorite to win RG...no question about that!
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Exactly.. I'm just enjoying Federer winning for once again. FO with a healthy Nadal playing his best game is as close to certainty as you can get I think.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
stormholloway said:
This is a pretty interesting opinion right here.



Because he happens to hit his big forehand crosscourt into Federer's backhand? Nadal is just lucky to play left handed, or else he'd have far more trouble with Federer.



No he isn't. He simply "finds another gear". He doesn't make adjustments. He just tries harder.



Federer goes on automatic? He's the king of mixing things up. What a ridiculous statement. If anyone is on automatic it's Nadal. Nadal's plan is to hit big topspin shots into his opponent's weaker side until they either make a mistake or put a ball short.



Nadal slows things down from the beginning. He takes 40 takes between serves. That's not really a strategy as much as it is a (bad) habit.



So Federer is unable to be creative and intelligent on-court, unlike Nadal who is the better strategist? Ridiculous.



I wouldn't call it that. Heavy topspin is not genius. Igor Andreev is not genius. He just goes "low to high" really well.

Give me a break. Do you really believe this crap?
Click to expand...

Would you like to give this another try and give me a thoughtful response?

Because this post just sucks.
 
OddJack

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
CyBorg said:
Nadal is the 'genius', IMO. Not Federer. If you can call athletes geniuses at all.
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Geniuses, and yes you can call some athletes geniuses, use more brains than brawn. They are creators rather than creatures of bodily power. Look at Nadal and Federer side by side, the arsenal of shots and variety in their games and tell me who has got more of which.

If anyone is a genius in Nadal camp, it's his uncle toni. He does the thinking for him. You just dont get it.
 
Last edited:
Inner Game

Inner Game

Semi-Pro
The Genius in the Nadal camp is his Doctor of Course!!!!

Any Doctor that can prescribe those special vitamins has to be rated #1 on the ATP.....it could also be his trainer.....oh...I forgot, when Nadal gets tired he heads for "Fantasy Island" to recover.....Has anyone actually seen any Nadal work out articles......NADA>>>>>ZERO>>>>>>>and everyone knows the real truth...

For what its worth....
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
OddJack said:
If anyone is a genius in Nadal camp, it's his uncle toni. He does the thinking for him. You just dont get it.
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You can't teach thinking. When you're on the court no one can help you but yourself.

I know it's popular for many folks here to refer to Nadal as a dumb jungle boy Tarzan-type. I see this as a kind of soft racism.
 
Inner Game

Inner Game

Semi-Pro
Your wrong there CyBorg....it has nothing to do with race...it's more like a Manny Ramirez thing....its only a matter of time before the truth comes out......as they say...

"The truth will set you free!"

For what its worth....
 
stormholloway

stormholloway

Legend
CyBorg said:
You're right. I should take my time to address these types of gems:
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Makes perfect sense to me. What adjustments has Nadal ever made? Please give me one example of a match where he was being beaten and then mixed things up to win.

He has an exceptional feel for the game, oustanding vision and awareness, and never seems to go on automatic. Most guys do - Federer included.
Click to expand...

This was a good one from you. Nadal never goes on automatic? The man has one game plan. He executes it very well. Federer goes on automatic? What's automatic about serving and volleying, then staying back, then using the drop shot. The man's decisions in that last match were completely unpredictable, i.e. the opposite of automatic. Did you watch that match in Madrid? It was the same old game plan from Nadal. Federer was the one mixing things up.

You must live in some far-away land where up is down and black is white.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
Inner Game said:
Your wrong there CyBorg....it has nothing to do with race...it's more like a Manny Ramirez thing....its only a matter of time before the truth comes out......as they say...

"The truth will set you free!"

For what its worth....
Click to expand...

It's a combination of factors, ultimately tied in with image. Responsible for this, to a large extent, are the corporate agents. The folks who work on the image. But who are they catering to? The public.

Nadal clearly detests the image now that he's grown up. He gets it. He's hiding the biceps and limiting the on-court theatrics. He doesn't want to be Tarzan.

We're all to blame. We don't respect him. We think he's just a dumb kid who works hard.
 
OddJack

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
CyBorg said:
You can't teach thinking. When you're on the court no one can help you but yourself.

I know it's popular for many folks here to refer to Nadal as a dumb jungle boy Tarzan-type. I see this as a kind of soft racism.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can teach thinking. But that's a conversation for another day, and it was not what I reffered to. Toni gives him plans, player specific, and he does a good job following up step by step.
Nadal will not drink water if Toni does not approve, nor he drives a car that Toni does not see appropriate.
Remember AO when he lost the first set to Verdasco? He received a warning from umpire because he kept talking and looking to his box.
All this does not mean he is dumb, quite opposite, he does adjustments, he thinks, comes up with unbelievable shots and shot makings, but through all this the undeniable physical aspects of his game becomes even more obvious.
Nadal is an actor, a pantomime. From his initial jumping up and down when he first gets on the court, to those long strides, to those roars over each shot, to fist pumps and leg pumps. And I see Toni behind all this. He owns him.
He owned him the day he forced him to be a lefty.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
stormholloway said:
Makes perfect sense to me. What adjustments has Nadal ever made? Please give me one example of a match where he was being beaten and then mixed things up to win.
Click to expand...

A drop shot. A timely volley. And what impresses me in particular is how Nadal varies speeds and spin on his serves.

Another thing that Nadal does really well is conserve energy. He knows when to give it his all and when to temper things a bit. He always has a bit extra left in the tank in case the set goes long.

This was a good one from you. Nadal never goes on automatic? The man has one game plan. He executes it very well. Federer goes on automatic? What's automatic about serving and volleying, then staying back, then using the drop shot. The man's decisions in that last match were completely unpredictable, i.e. the opposite of automatic. Did you watch that match in Madrid? It was the same old game plan from Nadal. Federer was the one mixing things up.
Click to expand...

Not exactly what I mean. Switching from baseliner to s/v tactics in the middle of a set, because the game plan isn't working for you aren't good tactics. It's just desperation.

Nadal knows his gameplan and believes in it. Where he's smart is the recognition of his opponent's weaknesses. He can smell his fear. He knows when to slow things down. Federer when he's nervous speeds up. Abandons the game plan. Begins to run around like a chicken without a head. Nadal is more subtle.

You must live in some far-away land where up is down and black is white.
Click to expand...

You've convinced me. But in my land, Nadal is winning. How about yours?
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
OddJack said:
Yes, you can teach thinking. But that's a conversation for another day, and it was not what I reffered to. Toni gives him plans, player specific, and he does a good job following up step by step.
Nadal will not drink water if Toni does not approve, nor he drives a car that Toni does not see appropriate.
Remember AO when he lost the first set to Verdasco? He received a warning from umpire because he kept talking and looking to his box.
All this does not mean he is dumb, quite opposite, he does adjustments, he thinks, comes up with unbelievable shots and shot makings, but through all this the undeniable physical aspects of his game becomes even more obvious.
Nadal is an actor, a pantomime. From his initial jumping up and down when he first gets on the court, to those long strides, to those roars over each shot, to fist pumps and leg pumps. And I see Toni behind all this. He owns him.
He owned him the day he forced him to be a lefty.
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I disagree with this very strongly. There is little wisdom is isolation. True wisdom comes in group dynamics.

Tony is a smart man, but Nadal's entourage is actually quite large. His game is the byproduct of a lot of great minds. His own not excluded.

If only things were so simple as that - a player receives instructions and simply puts them together. Life is not like that.

A tennis match involves dynamic phenomena. Excelling within these phenomena requires tremendous thinking and instincts.

The best a good coach can do is to prepare his player to the top of his ability. But no coach can master these dynamics. The player is the one who deals with complex, unexpected and quantum shifts in atmosphere.

I think that Roger's biggest problem is that he works almost exclusively alone and trusts almost no one but himself. It's slowing him down.
 
grafselesfan

grafselesfan

Banned
CyBorg said:
I think that Roger's biggest problem is that he works almost exclusively alone and trusts almost no one but himself. It's slowing him down.
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It is amazing he is such a stubborn mule and does not realize how badly he needs a serious coach at this pivotal stage of his career. Someone close to him needs to knock him at the side of the head.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
grafselesfan said:
It is amazing he is such a stubborn mule and does not realize how badly he needs a serious coach at this pivotal stage of his career. Someone close to him needs to knock him at the side of the head.
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Roger should have played Davis Cup. Bonding with his countrymen could change a lot of things for him.

Nadal is very lucky, of course, to have the support of so many people. They're his family and they are always at his side. It is so great to see - I can't think of words to describe just how wonderful this is.

A great example of group dynamics in tennis is those Australian Davis Cup teams that had guys like Laver and Rosewall. The way they challenged one another and learned from each other really says a lot.

Tennis has since become a more individual sport and the Davis Cup is now an afterthought. Nadal's situation illustrates an interesting alternative. A player develops his game and finds his inspiration within a family dynamic. He's so well handled and I would even say protected - not at all like Borg who could only take the tennis lifestyle for so long, working exclusively with the rather cold and stoic Bergelin.

Federer is in a tougher situation. Always within himself. That's enough to drive you nuts. Like a Swiss Hamlet, without the interesting parts, but with a big ego.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
BigServer1 said:
We all get TIRED of you using different sizes and variations on your text to try to prove your point.

Just type normally. Jesus...
Click to expand...
Don't get your panties in a bundle. Have you finished with your tantrum yet?

yawn-1.jpg
 
S

sh@de

Hall of Fame
Nadal is not a genius. Federer is. But Nadal is a fighter, and a real damn good one, actually, he's the best. His fighting spirit and mental toughness has got to be the best on tour. But does that mean he's a genius? No... Get the two things right guys.
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
OTMPut said:
Does this disprove that Federer is a genius?
Click to expand...

I don't really buy the whole 'genius' thing - in general; as a concept one can use for athletes. I just don't think Roger is as good a thinker as Nadal. However he may still be the most physically gifted tennis player of all time.
 
harryz

harryz

Professional
blah blah blah blah blah

These threads are always the same old same old. Essentially: mine's bigger than your's, since my hero is (choose one) better, smarter, fitter, tougher, etc.... Therefore, by extension, I am better than YOU. Or better yet hurray for me and FU.

Am I alone, or is anyone else tired of this nonsense? Will it make you feel better about yourself if your hero wins the French? Will you suffer horribly if your, or his, nemesis wins? Please. This is the same mentality, for millenia, that has lead women to laugh about men and to think of us as little boys. And we keep on feeding it. Testosterone is a nasty little hormone, indeed. And youth is wasted, as they say, on the young.

That being said, I love these threads. They're about as interesting as a typical WTA match. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
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