Nadal and Barcelona

There is a lot of chit chat about this, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents

I put this in another thread, but I'll compile it together again here. A lot of people mention that Nadal is overplaying again. Not learning from past mistakes etc. So I went back and gathered some statistics, regarding just how much he played as of this day in the past 3 years, thought it would be interesting to look at.

2009
He had played,
Doha (3 matches, 6 sets)
AO (7 matches, 25sets, we all remember the last 2 matches)
Rotterdam (5 matches, 14 sets)
Davis Cup (2 matches, 6 sets)
IW (6 matches, 13 sets)
Miami (4 matches, 9 sets)
MC (5 matches, 11 sets)
Total:
32 matches
84 sets
16 top 20 opponents (4 outside top 100)
Time on court: 3671 mins or 61.2 hours (not including the DC matches)
Race points: 4525

2010

Doha (5 matches, 11 sets)
AO (5 matches, 17)
Davis Cup (skipped)
IW (5 matches, 12 sets)
Miami (5 matches, 12 sets)
MC (5 matches, 10 sets)
Total:
25 matches
62 sets
9 top 20 opponents (3 outside top 100)
Time on court: 2708 min or 45 hours
Race points: 2230


2011
Doha (4 matches, 9 sets)
AO(5 matches, 14sets)
DC(2 matches, 5 sets)
IW (6 matches, 14 sets)
Miami (6 matches, 14 sets)
MC (5 matches, 11 sets)
Total:
28 matches
67 sets played
9 top 20 players. (9 outside top 100)
Time on court: 2877 mins or 47.95 hours (not including the 2 DC matches)
Race points: 2650

So yes, clearly 2010 WAS better, but not by a whole lot. In early 2010 he was still undergoing treatment for his knees and of course he was in an entirely different place mentally than he is today. His treatment is what determined what tournaments he played.

That does not mean that 2011 compares to 2009. It really doesn't. 2009 was overkill, there is no denying that. He overplayed, but most importantly he played through injury. As of today, I have no reason to believe he isn't healthy.

The odd body language, unexplained 2nd set lapses to me are purely a result of the mental pressure and disappointment he has felt.
In terms of fatigue i don't think it's entirely bizzare. Yesterday, Ferrer was also exhausted in the second set. Is he not supposed to be the energizer bunny of the ATP? In the Murray match, by the end of the 2nd Murray looked like he had been hit by a truck. I'm sorry but elbow injury does not justify total physical fatigue.

As for Djokovic, well that guy's on a real high. He looked tired at both IW and Miami, but less so than Rafa but I think it was because he did not have the kind of pressure that was on Rafa. Even after Novak beat him in the IW final, people considered Nadal the favorite that day in Miami. Point is, Novak has faced less pressure than Rafa this year. No one expected him to win the AO or win 4 slams in a row or sweep the american HC season. Playing with less pressure is a real asset.

In light of this, skipping Barca is a horrible idea, because right now, he needs to feed his confidence. If he feels healthy why not play? He also needs time to get used to this surface. I'll be honest, no one so far has looked very natural on it. This is when people like Fed and esp Murray had a few extra days to get used to the surface. I'm sure if you had stuck Novak in MC it would have taken him time to adapt as well. Nadal now plays a game that is helping him get results on HCs so obviously switching to clay will be harder than it has before. I think Barca will be a lot more laid back than a masters event, which will allow him to compete with less pressure. It can only be a good thing for him. I am not putting down concerned fans, but from his presser it seems that he is doing exactly what he needs to to "fix" his "ailment". The only way to rebuild stamina, mental endurance and is to play matches. That's exactly what he's doing.

Okay that was not quite 2 cents but that's that. :neutral:

2011 will be very similar to 2009. Nadal goes to the end of 4 clay tournaments before RG spells trouble. 2009 was the only year he did it. We know what happened. Djokovic is only playing 3 tournaments and Serbia is quite easy compared to the other preparation tournaments.

This whole idea that Nadal playing in Barcelona is a bad idea drives me nuts.
Nadal is a professional tennis player. He trains and conditions each and every day to do what? Play in tennis tournaments. What else does he have to do?
Surely he is experienced enough now to know how many tournaments a year both his body and mind can handle. As the OP has stated there really is not a huge difference between the past few years. Also, he likes to play in Barcelona. He has mentioned this in interviews a few times. Why are people trying to suggest that playing one more tournament such as Barcelona will be detrimental for Nadal. We are not his babysitters. If playing one more tournament is so dangerous for Nadal, I suggest he look into other professions.

Good post, and I agree, Nadal needs to keep his confidence up, he's been playing really well.

It's simple - if he cares about #1 he should play. If not, he shouldn't. And really, if Djokovic were to take #1 for a few months, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Given his track record of consistency, I don't see him holding it for an extended period. But if you want the #1, then yes, you should amass as many clay points as you can.

cc0509 said:

This whole idea that Nadal playing in Barcelona is a bad idea drives me nuts.
Nadal is a professional tennis player. He trains and conditions each and every day to do what? Play in tennis tournaments. What else does he have to do?
Surely he is experienced enough now to know how many tournaments a year both his body and mind can handle. As the OP has stated there really is not a huge difference between the past few years. Also, he likes to play in Barcelona. He has mentioned this in interviews a few times. Why are people trying to suggest that playing one more tournament such as Barcelona will be detrimental for Nadal. We are not his babysitters. If playing one more tournament is so dangerous for Nadal, I suggest he look into other professions.

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And yet he had his best year in 2010 when he didn't play Barcelona.

His problem right now appears to be motivation related... or perhaps slight burnout. Perhaps, he just needs a mental vacation.

Bud said:

His problem right now appears to be motivation related... or perhaps slight burnout. Perhaps, he just needs a mental vacation.

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Maybe. But from my POV winning is what he lives for, so nothing is more rewarding to him, than winning and coming out on top. Like that's his drug or antidote. I think so anyway. I think he is in dire need of some confidence. Plus, it seems like this is something he wants to do, and feels ready to do. He knows himself better than anyone else, and if playing is gratifying for him then why not? It just seems silly to me to pull out as a precaution.

Not to mention, he'll be playing what 5 matches? The first two are against, well, not the best players. Then he meets some tough opponents. That too, really depends how they are playing. Soda and Monfils haven't played on clay yet, have they? Most likely will be a tough final if he makes it. But then he gets more that a week to recharge. After that see how it goes.

cc0509 said:

This whole idea that Nadal playing in Barcelona is a bad idea drives me nuts.
Nadal is a professional tennis player. He trains and conditions each and every day to do what? Play in tennis tournaments. What else does he have to do?
Surely he is experienced enough now to know how many tournaments a year both his body and mind can handle. As the OP has stated there really is not a huge difference between the past few years. Also, he likes to play in Barcelona. He has mentioned this in interviews a few times. Why are people trying to suggest that playing one more tournament such as Barcelona will be detrimental for Nadal. We are not his babysitters. If playing one more tournament is so dangerous for Nadal, I suggest he look into other professions.

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yuppp. Totally agree.

Murrayfan31 said:

And yet he had his best year in 2010 when he didn't play Barcelona.

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How do we know there is a correlation between his best playing year in 2010 and his dropping Barcelona. It "may" be the reason he played his best but it may not be. There are too many other variables. I can't see how playing in one smaller tournament is the difference between playing well or not.

The schedule this year is also better than in 2009. In 2009, MC, Barcelona, and Rome were three weeks in a row I believe. That really killed him. This year you have MC and Barcelona--break--then Madrid and Rome--break. Two tourneys in two weeks shouldn't do Nadal in.

sounds like some *******s are afraid he'll get beaten at FO again this year.

Calm down, just because he plays 1 low level tournament doesn't mean he's going to get injured, these people play tennis everyday anyways so a little extra heat wont hurt them.

We'll see if playing Barcelona is going to prejudice his season or not. The Nadal equation is a really hard one. He needs to play many matches to get in the groove and build confidence, but at the same time he can overplay and suffer from burnout. Achieving the perfect balance of matches to get enough confidence, and prevent injuries or the constant wear and tear is probably one of the big priorities on the Nadal camp.

But there is much more to it than just smart scheduling and not overplaying. Nadal and his managers certainly have an agreement with the Barcelona tournament and its directors. He skipped Barca last year and he himself seemed very disappointed in that, so it must mean something to him as his home tournament.
Skipping it again would be very disrespectful to the tournament heads, sponsors and the many fans that come to watch him play there, I'm sure Nadal himself knows that very well and doesn't want to skip it again. Sometimes decisions are more about responsibilities and sentimental values than anything.

Fate Archer said:

We'll see if playing Barcelona is going to prejudice his season or not. The Nadal equation is a really hard one. He needs to play many matches to get in the groove and build confidence, but at the same time he can overplay and suffer from burnout. Achieving the perfect balance of matches to get enough confidence, and prevent injuries or the constant wear and tear is probably one of the big priorities on the Nadal camp.

But there is much more to it than just smart scheduling and not overplaying. Nadal and his managers certainly have an agreement with the Barcelona tournament and its directors. He skipped Barca last year and he himself seemed very disappointed in that, so it must mean something to him as his home tournament.
Skipping it again would be very disrespectful to the tournament heads, sponsors and the many fans that come to watch him play there, I'm sure Nadal himself knows that very well and doesn't want to skip it again. Sometimes decisions are more about responsibilities and sentimental values than anything.

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Very well said. I completely agree with everything said. Nadal likely feels obligated to play in Barcelona, as it is the longest running event in his home country. Madrid may have Masters status, but it has only been in existence as a premier French Open tuneup in May for a few years. The Barcelona tournament has far more history and it means a lot to Spanish players. The schedule is better than it was back when Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome were played three weeks in a row. To me, that's the key. Dependening on how he feels physically, Monte Carlo and Barcelona followed by an off week and then Madrid and Rome back to back followed by another off week before the French Open should be okay. For almost everyone else, that schedule doesn't seem that daunting. Obviously for Nadal, if he wins everything he will have played quite a few matches in a short time span.

Fate Archer said:

We'll see if playing Barcelona is going to prejudice his season or not. The Nadal equation is a really hard one. He needs to play many matches to get in the groove and build confidence, but at the same time he can overplay and suffer from burnout. Achieving the perfect balance of matches to get enough confidence, and prevent injuries or the constant wear and tear is probably one of the big priorities on the Nadal camp.

But there is much more to it than just smart scheduling and not overplaying. Nadal and his managers certainly have an agreement with the Barcelona tournament and its directors. He skipped Barca last year and he himself seemed very disappointed in that, so it must mean something to him as his home tournament.
Skipping it again would be very disrespectful to the tournament heads, sponsors and the many fans that come to watch him play there, I'm sure Nadal himself knows that very well and doesn't want to skip it again. Sometimes decisions are more about responsibilities and sentimental values than anything.

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Very nice!

Why Not?

Djok has Belgrade for a little home-cooking edge. For Rafa, Barcelona is as close to home-cooking as possible. On a really, really clear day, you can almost see Mallorca. I see a little R&R on the Ramblas, tapas and tangoing, no? Seriously, he's stupid to skip it for two reasons: practice and points. OK, I quit coz I ran out of alliterations.

nadalbestclass said:

There is a lot of chit chat about this, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents
...
....
....

In light of this, skipping Barca is a horrible idea, because right now, he needs to feed his confidence. If he feels healthy why not play? He also needs time to get used to this surface. I'll be honest, no one so far has looked very natural on it. This is when people like Fed and esp Murray had a few extra days to get used to the surface. I'm sure if you had stuck Novak in MC it would have taken him time to adapt as well. Nadal now plays a game that is helping him get results on HCs so obviously switching to clay will be harder than it has before. I think Barca will be a lot more laid back than a masters event, which will allow him to compete with less pressure. It can only be a good thing for him. I am not putting down concerned fans, but from his presser it seems that he is doing exactly what he needs to to "fix" his "ailment". The only way to rebuild stamina, mental endurance and is to play matches. That's exactly what he's doing.

Okay that was not quite 2 cents but that's that. :neutral:

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Nadalbestclass - Good job with the statistics, but I'm afraid you're missing the forest among the trees here.

Let's look at the past. From memory, Nadal has played Barcelona 5 times, and EVERY time he's not been 100% all through the clay season because of it.

2007 he lost Hamburg after overplaying in Barcelona. In 2008, playing Barcelona led to blisters and an early exit at Rome.

In 2005, 2006 I think Nadal withdrew from Hamburg, again because of playing Barcelona.

And then of course 2009, the most disastrous, eventually cost Nadal the F.O, the #1, #2 ranking (effectively a year worth of slams and made it quite likely that Nadal won't reach the top tier in terms of greatest players).

On the flip side, we all know what happened when Nadal skipped Barcelona last year: he won RG and all the Masters for a perfect clay season!


So if history is any guide, playing Barcelona NEVER did Nadal any
good.

The thing is, Nadal just isn't playing well this year. He got beat by a sub-par Djoker twice on hardcourts. His clay performance should have been great (given his improvements as an all round player), but it has been SHOCKINGLY bad.

Nadal made 30+ UFEs in the Ferrer match, and hit 2 forehand winners in 3.25 sets (2 hrs 15 minutes of tennis) against Murray. I've never EVER seen such kind of stats from Nadal. Think of that, and compare it to say Wimb 2010, where Nadal had 2 UFEs (yes two) in a set and a half against Murray and Soderling.

The MC SF and final, are without doubt among the worst clay winning matches in Nadal's career. Furthermore, 2011 MC is most likely the worst Monte Carlo he's played among the last 6 he's won.

Now Nadal is playing Barcelona to win additional pts and try to hold on to his #1 somehow. This is an ill-advised strategy, and smacks more of desperation than prudence.

The only way Nadal will keep Djokovic at bay is by playing well, not by picking up an extra few hundred points on his own. After all, without a doubt, Djokovic will just gain points by making deep runs, and Nadal cannot stop him since they are in opposite halves of the draw.

As above, there is a SOLID 7 years history which says Nadal overplays in Barcelona and then pays later during the clay season. So playing Barcelona is MORE LIKELY to cost him #1. Winning 500 in Barcelona could make him dump 1000 in Rome, or perhaps 2000 points at RG or Wimb (or both).

More matches are hindering, rather than helping him. He looks burnt out mentally and physically. On past evidence, Nadal is an injury prone athlete who needs to strike a fine balance between getting injured by playing too much and playing enough matches to be confident. Instead like 2009, he's just trying to push himself, and it is actually dangerous because he has started winning and the complacency is starting to creep in.

All the other top players, in contrast are planning their seasons carefully, as we can see from the prudent scheduling of Djokovic, Federer, Delpo etc..

^^
You can't nitpick on little things every year. 2009 can hardly be attributed to Barcelona, his trouble had started already at the AO. Also, it cannot be said that last year would have been different had he not played Barcelona. I mean he played in 2008, and had one of his best years then. The biggest key this year is that there are plenty of breaks. Break after Barca and then break before RG.

After today's match I have no doubt that playing Barcelona was a good idea. His matches are much shorter this time around, his attitude is also changing and he's falling into his groove. He's also putting more faith in his backhand and movement in improving. To be honest, he's hardly had any grueling matches either and I suspect his toughest will come in the final against Ferrer. I think he'll win here in Barca and that could do a lot for his confidence, and also not put him in freak out mode were he to not win Rome or Madrid.

I hope to see him do even better tomorrow.

I want to make a point, that you are absolutely correct in saying that the key is beating Djoko, but thing is, in terms of clay game, Nadal at his best is certainly better than Djokovic, but confidence will eventually determine the outcome of the matches. Djokovic has lots of confidence and not as much pressure, Nadal so far has been lacking in confidence and is obv facing lots of pressure. I think that's exactly the issue he is addressing right now. Taking off th pressure and building confidence and stamina. That was my original point.

Is this the ********* excuse bin?

Playing Barca was a good /bad idea depending on whether or not he wins RG.Of course one can obviously assume that he will be winning RG but in an event of the unthinkable happening,playing Barca might just end up being a bad idea. :wink:

TennisFan3 said:

So if history is any guide, playing Barcelona NEVER did Nadal any
good.

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In the past, MC, Barcelona, Rome were in consecutive weeks. Now he has a break before Madrid+Rome. Also, he was generally playing well at the start of the claycourt season previously. Not so this year, so a few easy matches against mediocre opponents will hone his basic game. That said, I dislike his talk of playing Barca to rack up points. He should not be fearing Djokovic, just beating him when they meet, and he'll do just fine.

In fact, Djokovic is playing 3 consecutive weeks starting next week. Wonder how he'll adapt.

cc0509 said:

This whole idea that Nadal playing in Barcelona is a bad idea drives me nuts.
Nadal is a professional tennis player. He trains and conditions each and every day to do what? Play in tennis tournaments. What else does he have to do?
Surely he is experienced enough now to know how many tournaments a year both his body and mind can handle. As the OP has stated there really is not a huge difference between the past few years. Also, he likes to play in Barcelona. He has mentioned this in interviews a few times. Why are people trying to suggest that playing one more tournament such as Barcelona will be detrimental for Nadal. We are not his babysitters. If playing one more tournament is so dangerous for Nadal, I suggest he look into other professions.

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yea, I agree here. besides, so far he's not having to work very hard in Barca. Plus, it's really his "home" tournament, so I'm sure he feels obligated and wants to play.

RCizzle65 said:

Good post, and I agree, Nadal needs to keep his confidence up, he's been playing really well.

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I don't think he's playing that well. I've never seen Nadal double fault so much, especially in big points.

I believe he was sick in the beginning of the year and is still not completely over it.

mandy01 said:

Playing Barca was a good /bad idea depending on whether or not he wins RG.Of course one can obviously assume that he will be winning RG but in an event of the unthinkable happening,playing Barca might just end up being a bad idea. :wink:

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Barca as an excuse immediately fails when you take into consideration that in 2008 Rafa played one of his best FOs AND won Wimbly in an epic match. If Rafa played 5 amazing opponents, playing their lifetime best and was pushed to many 3 setters with many tie-breaks, then perhaps it would affect his chances in one of the masters tournaments. That is just not the case, and unless he manages to injure himself here, there is no way to twist Barca out to have a bad effect on the rest of his clay court season.

TennisFan3 said:

The thing is, Nadal just isn't playing well this year. He got beat by a sub-par Djoker twice on hardcourts.

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Is this a Djoke?

TennisFan3 said:

The thing is, Nadal just isn't playing well this year. He got beat by a sub-par Djoker twice on hardcourts.

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True dat......

DjokerIsTheBest said:

True dat......

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Well they were BOTH subpar. A more even match was The USO.

MichaelNadal said:

Well they were BOTH subpar. A more even match was The USO.

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Djokovic was way weaker at the US Open. The Djokovic of 2011 is way better and too much for Nadal to handle. Even on his weak days.

MichaelNadal said:

Well they were BOTH subpar. A more even match was The USO.

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Really? I thought the Miami match was not bad. I would say both are capable of better, but I thought compared to IW it was a real step up. Sux that Rafa lost, but at the end it was a very close match and could very well have gone to Nadal if not for a few points.

Murrayfan31 said:

Nadal was way stronger at the US Open. The Djokovic of 2010 was not as good and easy for Nadal of 2010 to handle. Even on his weak days.

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Fixed..........

single_handed_champion said:

Fixed..........

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Djokovic of 2011>Nadal of 2010.

Murrayfan31 said:

Djokovic of 2011>Nadal of 2010.

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Quote for truth!

Murrayfan31 said:

Djokovic of 2011>Nadal of 2010.

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Just to equal him he will have to win both Wimbly and RG. After which if he can pull off the USO, well then there is no contest. OR he will have to win the WTF.

Only then will Djoko 2011> Nadal 2010.

sillymonkey said:

yea, I agree here. besides, so far he's not having to work very hard in Barca. Plus, it's really his "home" tournament, so I'm sure he feels obligated and wants to play.

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The Barcelona tournament is a joke for Nadal. He could win this tournament blindfolded and handcuffed I think. Not much competition for him, let's be honest.

cc0509 said:

The Barcelona tournament is a joke for Nadal. He could win this tournament blindfolded and handcuffed I think. Not much competition for him, let's be honest.

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Lol, pretty much. It is only a few steps up from his practice sessions, except he gets ATP points AND a nice paycheck at the end of it all. Sweet deal if you ask me!

Murrayfan31 said:

Djokovic of 2011>Nadal of 2010.

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I dont know if that is true and I dont know how YOU can know that with only 1/4 of a season gone.

For your statement to be true Djoko is going to have to win another 2 slams and do them back to back as Rafa did!

I dont see it but lets see!

Murrayfan31 said:

Djokovic of 2011>Nadal of 2010.

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It's hard to call really.

Right now Nadal sucks big time w.r.t his form.

So Djokovic 2011 >>>> Nadal 2011.

Also in 2010, Djokovic sucked big time with his serve, and pusher forehand

So Nadal 2010 >>> Djokovic 2010.

In UsO 2010 Nadal was at the peak of his hardcourt game. In AO 2011, Djoker was at the peak of his game (he declined in IW, Miami - but still won).

I would say UsO Nadal 2010 vs AO 2011 Djoker would be very close. Possibly 5 high quality sets..

TennisFan3 said:

It's hard to call really.

Right now Nadal sucks big time w.r.t his form.
So Djokovic 2011 >>>> Nadal 2011.
Also in 2010, Djokovic sucked big time with his serve, and pusher forehand
So Nadal 2010 >>> Djokovic 2010.
In UsO 2010 Nadal was at the peak of his hardcourt game. .
I would say UsO Nadal 2010 vs AO 2011 Djoker would be very close. Possibly 5 high quality sets..

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I am SO SO SO sick of you talking about Nadal's horrible form, and blabbering about how amazing he was at the USO that I HAD to go back and quote some golden stuff from you at the USO.

TennisFan3 said:

That's a good analysis but flawed. While the probabilities of each match are mutually exclusive, when both Fed and Nadal get to the final, the past won't matter. Even if Nadal had 100% probability in his SF and QF. On Sunday, it would just depend on the probability of him beating Fed (which is low to begin with).
ow one factor which everyone seems to have overlooked is the lack of rest day between Saturday and Sunday.
Nadal will play the 2nd SF on Saturday. His game is WAAAAY more physical than Federer's, who can win pts with just a serve and 1-2 punch. So Nadal will have lesser turnaround time for Sunday final day, and combined with the amount of running he does in every match would mean that he is LESS fresh for the final. I've seen Nadal come out flat in MS events before when he played the previous night. So the Super-Saturday format will be to Nadal's detriment and Fed's advantage.
Finally, even if Nadal is 100%, I don't think he has more than 20-25% chance of beating Fed. He is nowhere close to the player he was in 2008 and his ROS is extremely poor. 2008 Nadal would have 40-50% chance of beating Fed. 2010 Nadal has between 15-25% chance of beating Fed.
Obviously if Fed gets upset before the final (by some miracle) and Nadal makes it there, then his chances shoot up..

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TennisFan3 said:

Seriously Nadal is playing some pretty mediocre tennis. The serve was atleast 5-10 mph slower than in his previous matches, and he was pushing rather than hitting the ball. Poor from his backhand too.
He will have to play MUCH BETTER to have any chance of EVEN winning a set against Murray in the SF.
So far, this tournament seems boring and predictable. Fed is by far the best player out there.
Wouldn't be surprised if Fed wins the whole thing without dropping a set.

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To add to this, which unfortunately I didn't quote, you also said

-"nadal is playing worse than in Toronto/Cincy"
that he did not look like a top player, let alone the #1 player.
-"Verdasco will straight set him"
-"Murray will blow him off the court." This was when Murray was playing some sub-par tennis at the time.
"Nadal is playing like his 2005 level and not even a shadow of his 2008-2009 self".
Oh and also when it rained the day of the USO final, you pretty much said that now that Novak was fresh, Rafa had a very low chance.
Sound familiar? It should because you have been repeating the same stuff here as well. First in IW, then in Miami, then in MC, now here in Barca.

So either you are anti-jinxing like Cyan, or you are just a serious Fed fan.

nadalbestclass said:

I am SO SO SO sick of you talking about Nadal's horrible form, and blabbering about how amazing he was at the USO that I HAD to go back and quote some golden stuff from you at the USO.




To add to this, which unfortunately I didn't quote, you also said

-"nadal is playing worse than in Toronto/Cincy"
that he did not look like a top player, let alone the #1 player.
-"Verdasco will straight set him"
-"Murray will blow him off the court." This was when Murray was playing some sub-par tennis at the time.
"Nadal is playing like his 2005 level and not even a shadow of his 2008-2009 self".
Oh and also when it rained the day of the USO final, you pretty much said that now that Novak was fresh, Rafa had a very low chance.
Sound familiar? It should because you have been repeating the same stuff here as well. First in IW, then in Miami, then in MC, now here in Barca.

So either you are anti-jinxing like Cyan, or you are just a serious Fed fan.

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wow, that's quite a list.

It seems that miracles happen quite often in Tennisfan3's world. He was MIRACLED twice in 3 months between djokovic/federer us open and djokovic/federer AO open!

cc0509 said:

The Barcelona tournament is a joke for Nadal. He could win this tournament blindfolded and handcuffed I think. Not much competition for him, let's be honest.

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I think he plays that tournament to please his spanish sponsors. he makes a ton of money with commercials, merchendizing...

I'm sure those guys want him to play in front of his home crowd.

nadalbestclass said:

I am SO SO SO sick of you talking about Nadal's horrible form, and blabbering about how amazing he was at the USO that I HAD to go back and quote some golden stuff from you at the USO.




To add to this, which unfortunately I didn't quote, you also said

-"nadal is playing worse than in Toronto/Cincy"
that he did not look like a top player, let alone the #1 player.
-"Verdasco will straight set him"
-"Murray will blow him off the court." This was when Murray was playing some sub-par tennis at the time.
"Nadal is playing like his 2005 level and not even a shadow of his 2008-2009 self".
Oh and also when it rained the day of the USO final, you pretty much said that now that Novak was fresh, Rafa had a very low chance.
Sound familiar? It should because you have been repeating the same stuff here as well. First in IW, then in Miami, then in MC, now here in Barca.

So either you are anti-jinxing like Cyan, or you are just a serious Fed fan.

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Good job of taking stuff out of context. Those posts were in the middle of the UsOpen where Nadal had just played 3-4 players and pushed by Istomin and Gabashvili.

I still stand by those posts: The probability of Nadal vs Fed look about right at that pt. Nadal had no UsOpen, Fed had 5. (Who knew Fed would crap out against Djoker). In any case, if Fed has to beat Nadal in a slam final, the best place is a UsOpen, as I'm sure everyone agrees that his chances are lower in AO, Wimb. W.r.t Murray, the Scott would surely have had a good chance of stopping Nadal because of their matchup dynamic. In a way Nadal caught a break with Murray going out to Stan (not his fault though..). Also with 2008/current comparison - I take the Nadal of 2008 by a hair. The current Nadal is more offensive but the 2008 version was faster and stronger mentally.

Finally...did I really say Verdasco would straight set Nadal in a serious fashion? That must have been some mistake. I don't think I would say that with a straight face..

bolo said:

wow, that's quite a list.

It seems that miracles happen quite often in Tennisfan3's world. He was MIRACLED twice in 3 months between djokovic/federer us open and djokovic/federer AO open!

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For shuuuree. I don't think he hates Rafa, just takes "treading with caution" to another level.

bolo said:

wow, that's quite a list.

It seems that miracles happen quite often in Tennisfan3's world. He was MIRACLED twice in 3 months between djokovic/federer us open and djokovic/federer AO open!

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LOL! You'll never stop giving me grief about those Fed-Djoker predictions.

What can I say? I like both Fed/Nadal, but Fed declined and let his fans down against the Djoker. It's sad to see, but I still believe Fed can bring it on, on the faster courts in the fall. So hopefully he gets the Djoker in the NY this year..what do you think?

TennisFan3 said:

Good job of taking stuff out of context. Those posts were in the middle of the UsOpen where Nadal had just played 3-4 players and pushed by Istomin and Gabashvili.

I still stand by those posts: The probability of Nadal vs Fed look about right at that pt. Nadal had no UsOpen, Fed had 5. (Who knew Fed would crap out against Djoker). In any case, if Fed has to beat Nadal in a slam final, the best place is a UsOpen, as I'm sure everyone agrees that his chances are lower in AO, Wimb. W.r.t Murray he would surely have had a good chance of stopping Nadal because of their matchup dynamic. In a way Nadal caught a break (not his fault though..).

Finally...did I really say Verdasco would straight set Nadal in a serious fashion? That must have been some mistake. I don't think I would say that with a straight face..

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Look it doesn't make me happy to call you out on it. To be fair I agreed with you back then. Esp. in the Gashvilli match. He was playing badly initially. But thing is, you've gotta recognize that. A lot of posters now talk about Nadal during the USO as if he was playing like God the whole tourney. Which is not true. You can't talk about Nadal being some HC genius last year, and how bad he's is now. It's just that in the last 2-3 matches of the USO, esp the final things just fell together for him really well. He hasn't been able to find his groove that way yet. However, if you compare his performance in the Miami/part of IW final it was MUCH better than some of his early matches at the USO and certainly better than his tragic performances in Toronto/Cinci. Point is, his HC game has improved a lot, and I dunno if it will ever click the way it did towards the end of the USO. But it's only April, much too early to completely write the guy off. Novak is doing well, but it's not like he's totally dominating Nadal. I'm not living in lala land, I think Rafa has his hands full, that he still has a lot of improving to do, even on clay. But it's a lot more exciting that way, no?

nadalbestclass said:

Look it doesn't make me happy to call you out on it. To be fair I agreed with you back then. Esp. in the Gashvilli match. He was playing badly initially. But thing is, you've gotta recognize that. A lot of posters now talk about Nadal during the USO as if he was playing like God the whole tourney. Which is not true. You can't talk about Nadal being some HC genius last year, and how bad he's is now. It's just that in the last 2-3 matches of the USO, esp the final things just fell together for him really well. He hasn't been able to find his groove that way yet. However, if you compare his performance in the Miami/part of IW final it was MUCH better than some of his early matches at the USO and certainly better than his tragic performances in Toronto/Cinci. Point is, his HC game has improved a lot, and I dunno if it will ever click the way it did towards the end of the USO. But it's only April, much too early to completely write the guy off. Novak is doing well, but it's not like he's totally dominating Nadal. I'm not living in lala land, I think Rafa has his hands full, that he still has a lot of improving to do, even on clay. But it's a lot more exciting that way, no?

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Good post. Can't disagree with anything.

All in all, this year should be more competitive than the last with Djoker already playing well, Delpo expected to make a big impact, and even Murray coming out of his lull..