Nadal: winning record vs the other Big 3!
- Thread starter DRII
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then why are you bringing it up?
Head to head doesn't mean s*** until everybody retires.
Clarky21
Banned
Semi-Pro
Hall of Fame
YOU DATA DOG, YOU!
nadal_slam_king
Banned
By the end of the year, or by the end of the clay season Nadal will have a similar lead over Djokovic to what Sampras had over Agassi. That is a substantial lead. I know you love Nadal but it is greedy to expect Nadal to lead everyone the way he leads Federer.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
According to semis and finals results, Nadal is the toughest player for the other top 3.
Semis and finals lost to other top 4:
Federer: 5 to Murray
10 to Djoko
17 to Nadal
Djokovic: 4 to Murray
10 to Fed
12 to Nadal
Murray: 5 to Fed
6 to Djoko
9 to Nadal
Nadal: 4 to Murray
9 to Fed
12 to Djoko
Murray is also the easiest one to handle for the other top players, no surprise there.
Semis and finals lost to other top 4:
Federer: 5 to Murray
10 to Djoko
17 to Nadal
Djokovic: 4 to Murray
10 to Fed
12 to Nadal
Murray: 5 to Fed
6 to Djoko
9 to Nadal
Nadal: 4 to Murray
9 to Fed
12 to Djoko
Murray is also the easiest one to handle for the other top players, no surprise there.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
Is it not enough that hardcourt gets 2 slams per year? Now clay is supposed to be taken out of the head2head? Hardcourt didn't even have a slam in Laver's day, and hardcourt probably won't have a slam in 20 years when people realize the damage it is doing to players backs, hips and knees. Clay and grass have always been here and will never go away. Hardcourt is the imposter.
Slice&Smash
Rookie
Slice&Smash
Rookie
Exactly. He will be losing much more as he ages, just like everyone else.
Evan77
Banned
bud, you are so delusional that it's not even fun. Djokovic OWNS Nadal. I don't care that Nadal who peaked earlier in his career was beating young Novak. their h2h means nothing, it's very close. However, Djokovic leads 7:1 in last 18 months or so (all finals). so, only someone who is a blind worshiper (like you) can not see that. I wish I could help you but it's not possible.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Djoker overall does not own Nadal yet. But Djoker 2.0 completely owns Nadal. Wait and see as it gets worse and worse.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
Well, Djokovic had a successful 12 months. It was bound to happen one year.
Evan77
Banned
well, that was my point
. It's just that certain 'Rafafans' refuse to see it.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
Nadal 2011 US Open vs Nadal 2010 US Open, is a joke. And serve is the least of it, it is so much more mentally and physically. So I wouldn't get carried away with Djokovic "2.0". Nadal can remove Djokovic 2.0 quite swiftly.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
I agree that Nadal USO 2010 edges Nole 2011 (hardcourt); I wouldn't use Nole 2011 USO because i don't think he or Nadal played that well during the 2011 USO final.
During the M.C. final this week, Nadal gained backed some ability on his backhand and his serve (although still not close to his 2010 USO serve). His return and passing shots are still lacking. It amazes me how offensive Nadal is on the return when his opponent’s serve is just long or is a let. He goes for it during those circumstances and paints the lines with excellent pace. However during a normal return, particularly on the second serve, Nadal just wants to get the return in with heavy spin to start the point, often landing the return short.
Truth be told, Nole was not playing at 100%; all of his shots were there (still pushing Nadal around during some points) but he was not mentally tough as usual -- and he knows more than anyone that any opponent must be mentally strong to compete with Nadal.
Nole has declined since 2011, similar to how Nadal declined from 2010 to 2011, i think parity between the two is much closer now and started to be so at the 2012 Aussie Open final. Either could have won that match.
I still think peak Nadal > peak Nole; but it is very close as 2008 showed.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nadal cannot defeat Djoker 2.0. He is simply not good enough. Watch in the coming months as Nadal fans become more and more demoralized.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
I'll watch and I'll laugh and taunt you for the remainder of 2012 and beyond as Nadal continues to extend his head2head lead.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
I highly doubt it. When you are wrong, you usually disappear for a period of sulking.
nadal_slam_king
Banned
I 'disappear' randomly, because I travel frequently and don't always have internet access. And I was posting more when Nadal was losing than I am this week. Just remember, Talk Tennis NEVER gets it right. Talk Tennis thought Federer would dominate in 2008. Talk Tennis thought Nadal would dominate in 2009. And Talk Tennis had no clue that Nadal was about to win 3 slams in 2010. Whatever the majority thinks, won't happen.
I think he did beat him on Sunday.
Was that Djoker 1.8?
This Djoker 2.0 thing is kind of ridiculous. Everytime he loses he ain't Djoker 2.0 but if he wins he is Djoker 2.0.
I wonder do people realise he is the same person.
What is Nadal now? Nadal 3.5?
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Yes that was Djoker 1.3 on Sunday. Isn't that the mantra of Nadal fans though? Nadal never loses when he wins.
Slice&Smash
Rookie
Evan77
Banned
lol, brilliant ... thank God for some smart people on this board who actually have some sense of humor
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
LOL how can a pimply faced teenager travel frequently???
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Nadal is the most talented out of the top 4 because he was a winning record against everyone of them. He destroyed peak Djokovic the other day and took him to 5 sets on Djokovic's best surface this year aswell.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nadal is also much more talented than Sampras
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Thanks to a massive clay skew in the h2h. Nadal is 22-26 on hard/grass courts against Federer, Djokovic, Murray combined.
Or 11-21 if you exclude Murray.
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Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Sampras is the most talented player in the open era.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Not talented enough to beat anyone on clay though.
BigServer1
Legend
How do you know this, when your join date is 2010? 2 years seems like an awfully long time to lurk around without creating an account, especially for an opinionated guy like you.
There is no lack of depth either.
Evan77
Banned
yeah, Nadal is God, or is it that God is Nadall... not sure, still thinking about it.
right, Nadal is so much more talented that Swiss ballerina ... gee people, I hope your are being sarcastic. if not, I can only laugh.
regardless of their h2h and clay ****, Federer is an effortless genius... comparing Fed and Rafa is just stupid ... I can't believe how far some Rafatards can go ... oh, let me say this again, DJOKOVIC OWNS NADAL, get it ? I guess not, lol. oh, Rafatards ... such a turn off... I used to like him but his fan-base is the most delusional base ever ... meh
niff
Legend
Yeah, that happens a lot.
namelessone
Legend
So Sampras won more slams, more overall titles, had more year end nr.1, won more TMC's but Rafa is more talented?
LAWL.
namelessone
Legend
tennis_pro;6485514[B said:
I don't know why you would exclude clay(not a surface?) but 22-26 is a great record considering that all those 3 guys up there have better natural HC games than Nadal and are hardly schmucks on grass.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
you dont say????
nadal_slam_king
Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,346
Semi-Pro
Hall of Fame
Nadal IS much more talented than Sampras. Nadal is a competitor on all surfaces whereas Sampras disappeared during the clay season
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
LOL, come on even you can't be obtuse enough to believe that.
kragster
Hall of Fame
I don't necessarily agree with your generalization of an entire fan base based on 3-4 major offenders (with multiple usernames that make them look like 6-7 posters!).
On a related note, I don't understand why grocery stores don't yet have an map/software/tool that tells me where to find things. Imagine how much time I would save shopping. Is it not in their best interests for me to not be frustrated? Or are they hoping that if I'm lost I'll stumble around and buy more stuff. Do folks here like Guacamole?Want the basic steps in how to make guacamole? You've come to the right place. Guacamole can take on many different forms to be used in a variety of different ways - all are delicious. One constant ingredient in all guacamole recipes are ripe avocados like versatile, flavorful Fresh Hass Avocados. Hass Avocados make the perfect guacamole for any occasion.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nadal has won all 4 slams on 3 different surface and he's only 25. Were it not for the GOAT Federer he would easily surpass Sampras in weeks at #1. Sampras was so bad on clay that even Murray is better, think about it!
Evan77
Banned
lol, too funny. I tried to get some stuff from a local Canadian shop called Coop, and I got so lost, couldn't get any help.... so I feel for you
well, I don't know, maybe you are right that I'm generalizing ... I just find so many Rafa fans to be fanatics and it's driving me crazy ... I've been watching tennis since 1980 and do understand the game pretty well... I just don't understand Nadal's fan-base (sure there are normal Rafa fans too). Honestly I have nothing against Nadal ... except that I do not like that style of defensive game he plays etc. it's not my cup of tea, but, hey, it's all good.
Federer and Djokovic seem to have much healthier, or shall I say more objective followers.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
DeShaun
Banned
It's a very significant achievement. He should probably have won more majors by now except for his way of winning which is pretty hardcore and not exactly suited for longevity. Before anybody points out emphatically that "Rafa has been winning slams for 7 years, so there's your longevity, buddy!" I will mention that during the first three of those years, he was winning only on clay. By the fourth year, non-clay court speeds had been sufficiently slowed down by the powers that be in order to increase the likelihood of Rafa going deeper in non-clay tourneys, as Rafa's mom is keen to point out: "My son packs stadiums; he is good for tennis the business."
But the fact that he has a winning record over the big three is significant because it suggests that Rafa's peak level of play, given the state of the tennis courts on which this record was compiled, has been higher than that of the other three. Although, Rafa's evolution into an all-surface threat in slams went hand in hand with changes that were made to court surface speeds, as his first three years of winning slams on only clay--during a period when he was clearly faster and arguably hit more powerful forehands regularly, i.e., when he should have been even more imposing than he actually was--coinciding with the courts being deliberately slowed suggests.
But the fact that he has a winning record over the big three is significant because it suggests that Rafa's peak level of play, given the state of the tennis courts on which this record was compiled, has been higher than that of the other three. Although, Rafa's evolution into an all-surface threat in slams went hand in hand with changes that were made to court surface speeds, as his first three years of winning slams on only clay--during a period when he was clearly faster and arguably hit more powerful forehands regularly, i.e., when he should have been even more imposing than he actually was--coinciding with the courts being deliberately slowed suggests.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
Slow surfaces do not neccesarily benefit Nadal; a higher, firmer bounce does...
However, your post does offer some interesting insights. Of course the courts were not homogenized to benefit Nadal, but to satisfy consumer demand for more baseline play and rallies.
PSNELKE
Legend
Thats a sexy excuse that you got prepaired for future losses for Novak against Nadal.
Whenever he losses, he's 1.0, if he wins he's 2.0.. gotta love it
Clarky21
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