Wilson Pro Knot tail?

4sound · Jun 16, 2012

I was looking at my friends string job and noticed that 2 of the knot tails were pointing down instead of up. I wonder how you tie and pull the knot down when it's mounted, instead of up when the and the advantages of this method? Depending on the direction of the string come thru next to your tie off string, i think it ties off more naturally if it is down.

Has anyone seen this or do this method?

Wikky · Jun 17, 2012

If you could take a picture it would help us identify the knot that they used. I haven't heard of a knot that naturally points down after being tied off before.

Irvin · Jun 17, 2012

It is all in how you tie and pull the tail. If you go through the loop toward the frame and pull toward the frame the tail lays against the frame.

pvaudio · Jun 17, 2012

OP, here is a Wilson Pro knot as taught via YouTube by Sir Irvin above this post:

4sound · Jun 17, 2012

pvaudio, I wasn't asking in how to do a wilson pro knot. I was asking about the advantages of doing it from the bottom instead of the top, based on the side the string lays naturally next to your tie off string.

I figured out how to do it and it does knot easier.

Irvin · Jun 18, 2012

When pulling from the top it is easier to get the knot tighter against the frame I would think. Actually I have never really tried it the other way so I am not positive.

4sound · Jun 18, 2012

Irvin, it depends on the direction of the string you're tying off on. The easiest way to explain is the difference between the 2 mains tie off. Main string on one side has the opening for the string to come thru opposite the other side. With the grip pointing down, the main tie off on the right naturally ties off with the tail pulling up. The opposite would be true for the other side. It's weird at first to tie a knot from under but it makes sense once its done.

Irvin · Jun 18, 2012

I don't tie any knot from under the frame.

pvaudio · Jun 18, 2012

4sound said:
Irvin, it depends on the direction of the string you're tying off on. The easiest way to explain is the difference between the 2 mains tie off. Main string on one side has the opening for the string to come thru opposite the other side. With the grip pointing down, the main tie off on the right naturally ties off with the tail pulling up. The opposite would be true for the other side. It's weird at first to tie a knot from under but it makes sense once its done.

No, it really doesn't. The reason is because when you pull the string through in order to tie it, you have to go opposite of the traditional convention which is over the anchor string, under the anchor string, and then through the space between the anchor and the tie off string. To tie off underneath, you would have to reverse that order. Even if you did that, the tail will still be facing against the frame, only it'd be facing against the other side of the frame. The mains on either side tie off with the tails on the same side of the racquet face, only pointing in opposite directions as shown in my pic below:

I also do not understand what "grip pointing down" means. You can string a racquet either way you wish to unless you've got a certain few in which case you'd end up doing your crosses reversed (the Babolat Y1xx series off the top of my head)

GlenK · Jun 19, 2012

I'm guessing he means mounting the racquet on the stringer with "the grip pointing down". I always mount with the grip up. No idea why, just a habit I developed when I started stringing.

Irvin · Jun 19, 2012

GlenK said:
I'm guessing he means mounting the racquet on the stringer with "the grip pointing down". I always mount with the grip up. No idea why, just a habit I developed when I started stringing.

Which way the grip points can't have anything to do with how the knot looks. It is all in how it is tied and pulled.

4sound · Jun 19, 2012

Irvin,
I never used to tied a knot from under the frame either. I tried it by reversing the loop from under and it does make sense for outside main (or second to outside) tie off. It isn't necessary with example pvaudio posted because the main tie off is on top and the angle of the tie off string out of the grommet isn't as sharp against the frame since it isn't on an outside main.

Irvin · Jun 19, 2012

Sorry I don't see it. I am going to continue the way I am doing it.

pvaudio · Jun 21, 2012

4sound said:
Irvin,
I never used to tied a knot from under the frame either. I tried it by reversing the loop from under and it does make sense for outside main (or second to outside) tie off. It isn't necessary with example pvaudio posted because the main tie off is on top and the angle of the tie off string out of the grommet isn't as sharp against the frame since it isn't on an outside main.

Please explain. The most frequent racquets I string besides my own (what I posted) are Head Radicals and Wilson 6.1s. Both of the latter tie off on the throat. There is no way to tie off your main strings on the outside mains either, so I know I'm confused when you said that.

jim e · Jun 21, 2012

The only time I will tie a knot from underneath the racquet is when the cross string tie off is on a cross string that is very close to the end main string and there is very little room, and that end main string that is there is right on top of that cross string for its weave, then I will tie backwards from underneath as you can rock the loop of the knot across the main and then cinch back over that main to snug it up nice.This is only time I can see why someone would tie a knot from under the racquet.

I know Irvin would understand this as he made a video where he plans on the proper weave on racquets that have this issue where the weave on the tie off would have the end main going under that cross string that way he can tie from top and cinch it back and forth across that end main, where for me I don't plan that to happen as it does not matter to me as I can tie from under as easy as on top so it makes no difference how the weave is.

Knot that it makes any difference anyways.

4sound · Jun 22, 2012

I'll post a picture when I get a chance.

pvaudio, you're right you can't tie off a main string on the last main. That wouldn't make sense since that is the last pull for the mains. I meant to say the throat side main tie offs instead of top side.

pvaudio · Jun 22, 2012

That still didn't answer my question since the rads and 6.1s I string tie off at the throat.

4sound · Jun 24, 2012

So what is your question?

pvaudio · Jun 24, 2012

You are saying that there is a time where tying knots underneath the racquets are either necessary or make a lot of sense to do. You said it doesn't apply when the tie offs are at the head, which means that racquets which tie off at the throat apply. I string those more commonly than anything but my own, and I've never tied off underneath the racquet. I'm just asking what aspect of it makes it necessary to tie off underneath the frame if the mains end at the throat.

fortun8son · Jun 24, 2012

I see no reason to tie a knot from underneath.
All finishing knots start with OUT(over, under, through).
On one side of the frame you go over to the left.
On the other side you go over to the right.
See the above picture.Post#9
One tail points right, the other, left.

4sound · Jun 24, 2012

The difference is very small, but think of it from the perspective of consistency and straightest string path, in relation to how the string lays next to the tie off string as it goes through the grommet. It's along the same idea as not crossing over the outside tie off strings on blocked holes.

The last cross weave will be over or under your last main string before it enters the last free grommet. (As an example, lets say it's under).
- As the string goes into the last grommet for tie off, the straightest path for the string would be for the string to lay next to the tie off string more towards the bottom.
- To keep the orientation of the string to stay laying towards the bottom, the knot should start the hitch loop starting under the tie off string.
- When you start your knot this way, your naturally tying the knot from under the frame to finish the pro knot.

Basically, the direction of knot loop, should match the last cross (over or under the previous main).

fortun8son · Jun 24, 2012

I'm sorry.No disrespect, but...
I still see no real point to going Under, Over, Through on some knots but not others.
That just unnecessarily complicates the process with no real benefit. IMO
If it works for you and you're comfortable with it, go for it.

4sound · Jun 26, 2012

No disrespect taken.

I do notice my tie off knots are more consistent now that I've been doing this. It just took a little bit of getting used to tying off from under the frame on certain racket patterns.

I believe the straightest (and shortest path if possible) is a good rule when stringing. I also always try to tie off on the closest hole possible.

pvaudio · Jun 27, 2012

To each his own then, good friend, to each his own.

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