A great article about Roger Federer's grey army in "The Times of India"

tusharlovesrafa

Hall of Fame
To the over 40s, he is wistful evidence that grace and skill still have a place in the sun

Why do middle-aged spectators love Roger Federer? The answer to this question isn't 'duh'. This is a love that can't be explained by merely gesturing at his unprecedented achievement. Pete Sampras was the man who held all the records before Federer emerged - seven Wimbledontitles, 14 Grand Slam championships, the No. 1 ranking on the ATP computer for the most weeks ever - but while he was admired for his awesome serve, his killer smash, his all-round niceness, he wasn't loved.

Federer is adored by the over-40s. Take Vijay Amritraj. Amritraj is the best tennis commentator in the world: genial, funny, someone who understands the game, knows its great figures and has the great advantage of being a natural at the microphone. But put him in charge of commentary about a match that features Federer and he becomes an infatuated fan. There was a moment in Federer's match against Novak Djokovic where he was tucked up by a down-the-line shot, which forced him to improvise a high, cramped forehand that went over the sideline. Amritraj exclaimed (to no one's surprise) at Federer's quick hands; the fact that he had lost the point seemed beside the point.

He isn't alone in his adoration. The novelist, the late, great David Foster Wallace wrote an appreciation of Federer in the New York Times which makes Amritraj's enthusiasm seem judicious.

"Roger Federer is one of those rare, preternatural athletes who appear to be exempt, at least in part, from certain physical laws... a type that one could call genius, or mutant, or avatar. He is never hurried or off-balance. The approaching ball hangs, for him, a split-second longer than it ought to...in the all-white that Wimbledon enjoys getting away with still requiring, he looks like what he may well (i think) be: a creature whose body is both flesh and, somehow, light."

So Wallace begins with the thesis that Federer is uber-human and escalates to the conclusion that he's probably divine. Amongst retired tennis greats, the sentiment in Federer's favour is overwhelming. Rod Laver thinks that hard though it is to compare tennis players across generations, Federer's probably the best of the Open era. Sampras declares that there's no one he'd rather lose his records to and Sampras's great rival, Andre Agassi, manages to diss Nadal and praise Federer in a single sentence: "If it hadn't been for the freak from Mallorca, Federer would have won all the slams a few times."

The reference to Nadal is the key to understanding the middle-aged attachment to Federer. Nadal is the anti-Federer. Where Federer's signature style is cha-racterised by gliding effortlessness, Nadal's tennis is defined by explosive physicality. Nadal is a two-handed southpaw, Federer makes fans old enough to remember Ken Rosewall swoon with his flamboyant, single-handed backhand. If Federer is a two-legged Saluki, Nadal is a turbo-charged Rottweiler; ferocious, unremitting, inexhaustible. If Federer is Gatsby (and he has sometimes been parodically country club in his piped blazers and long flannels), Nadal is Popeye, his ham-like arms powered by some mysterious Mallorcan spinach.

Federer, despite being a tho-roughly modern tennis player in his athleticism, in the power and weight of his groundstrokes and his willingness to rally from the baseline, still manages to embody for the middle-aged a classicism that they believe is nearly extinct. So they ooh when he uses the backhand slice, sigh when he (occasionally) follows it in to the net to volley and become incontinent with delight when he scimitars that backhand down the line "on the dead run" as Amritraj loves to say.

Nadal, on the other hand, is the negation of this style. His groundstrokes are massively topspun on both flanks and his ability to retrieve and to counter-attack from extreme defensive positions is, as Agassi points out, freakish. Unlike Federer, most of Nadal's most fervent supporters are to be found amongst the young who feel no need to defer to classicism because it wasn't the dominant style when they began following tennis and secondly because they revel in Nadal's athleticism. Unlike the middle-aged they aren't invested in the defensive, compensatory old-person idea that grace and economy of effort and skill ought to prevail over unbridled strength and speed.

Nor do they see any virtue in Federer's unwillingness to adopt the latest racquet technology. Federer uses a smaller racquet head than most other players do on the men's tour, choosing to sacrifice power for feel. His racquet is also partly strung with natural gut unlike Nadal who was an early adopter of copoly strings, which grip the ball more firmly and make his topspun groundstrokes kick unplayably.

To the young, Federer often seems a preening has-been fighting a losing rearguard action against both youth and modernity. For the not-so-young his victories seem to offer a vindication of classicism's first principles and the illusion of continuity with the tennis of their youth. The power of classical forms is such that even Agassi, a creature of tennis's two-handed transformation, and Nick Bollettieri, the coaching Svengali who more than anyone promoted that transition, prefer Federer to Nadal, the great legatee of the changes they wrought.

As Federer, almost 31, enters his tennis dotage, his victory at Wimbledon and his unlikely return to the No. 1 ranking allows his greying groupies to believe that 'some work of noble note may yet be done', that 50 is, perhaps, the new 35.

The writer is an author, academic and critic.
Bolded part just made me grin..lol
 

DoubleDeuce

Hall of Fame
Yes, I read it this morning. Well written.

It's a response the thread" why cant you like both Nadal and Federer.
 

Fedex

Legend
It's strange and frustrating how Federer can turn, normally excellent and knowledgeable posters, like JustBob into complete arseholes.

I mean I think Federer is a marvellous player but that still wouldn't make me want to bum the guy.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
It's strange and frustrating how Federer can turn, normally excellent and knowledgeable posters, like JustBob into complete arseholes.

I mean I think Federer is a marvellous player but that still wouldn't make me want to bum the guy.

I'm flattered by your attention, but perhaps you'd like to justify how you came to that "evaluation". I've always been, and will remain, first and foremost a tennis fan. If you conveniently categorized me as a "*******" because it makes your black and white world easier to deal with, then you are sadly mistaken and seriously lacking both in judgment and critical thinking...
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
As a Federer fan I think this article is quite unfair to Nadal. Not all that well written either.
I don't think the article is trying to diss Rafa, it's only trying to describe that the "grey army" thinks of him.

Actually a few years back in 2008, I actually thought that Vijay (nowadays "Veej", lol) was a Nadal fan. He was raving about Nadal. But last year i recall him saying "Just watching Nadal hit a forehand makes me feel tired". :D

Like all commentators, he seems to talk highly of all players, trying not to show any bias. At WO 08, he predicted Rafa would win, this time he predicted Murray.
 

Sri

New User
The ToI article also called Vijay Amritraj the best and most informed tennis commentator. #Fail

Amritraj knows more about Hollywood and British Royalty than tennis.

Example: Before the Nole vs. Rog SF coverage, he claimed that Fed won't get to #1 even if he won Wimbledon, this even after Alan Wilkins had stated the ranking scenario correctly.
 

Fedex

Legend
I'm flattered by your attention, but perhaps you'd like to justify how you came to that "evaluation". I've always been, and will remain, first and foremost a tennis fan. If you conveniently categorized me as a "*******" because it makes your black and white world easier to deal with, then you are sadly mistaken and seriously lacking both in judgment and critical thinking...

Firstly an apology is in order for name calling especially a poster I've always had great respect for.
I don't want to troll through and cast up your previous posts and hope that you would have some awareness of your bias when it comes to Federer.
Although he is the most remarkably gifted player with an armory of jaw dropping, un-coachable shots, admiration of his talent and increased success should not come at the expense of respect for other players which you have displayed a lack of recently.
I see a correlation between a rise in Federer's game to a lowering in the quality of your posts and increased arrogance, a trap many other posters fall into which I thought you were above and, as a self confessed JustBob forum fan, I find this disappointing and felt the need to bring this to your attention.
A tennis fan should always try to recognise and respect the talents and efforts of other players not just the one who's idolised.
Thanks for listening.
 
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tank_job

Banned
Mysterious Mallorcan Spinach, is that what they're calling steroids these days?

Nah, actually, I'm not gonna give Nadal the complement of saying that his physique must be steroid-driven, he's totally ordinary, has less muscle mass and way more fat than the average athlete of pretty much any other sport, and would be out-benched, deadlifted, squatted, sprinted, vertical-jumped...etc... by them as well.

Look how skinny his legs have got now, and the layer of flab around his middle, lol. It's quite pathetic an 'athlete' can look like that, but don't get me started on Roger.
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
The ToI article also called Vijay Amritraj the best and most informed tennis commentator. #Fail

Amritraj knows more about Hollywood and British Royalty than tennis.

Example: Before the Nole vs. Rog SF coverage, he claimed that Fed won't get to #1 even if he won Wimbledon, this even after Alan Wilkins had stated the ranking scenario correctly.
That is because it is not his job remember those sort of numbers (this is assuming what you say is true). Unlike Wilkins he is an expert on tennis strategy and actual match-play, having played the sport himself. Wilkins is a presenter and it's he who keeps a tab on the statistics and other generalities.
If you're ignorant atleast don't demonstrate it in such a grandiose fashion.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I largely agree with the quoted passage.

However, it would be nice if Federer's grey army would ditch some of their out-dated social vestiges that rear their ugly heads every now and then...
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
That is because it is not his job remember those sort of numbers (this is assuming what you say is true). Unlike Wilkins he is an expert on tennis strategy and actual match-play, having played the sport himself. Wilkins is a presenter and it's he who keeps a tab on the statistics and other generalities.
If you're ignorant atleast don't demonstrate it in such a grandiose fashion.
Yes, I do believe he said that, and then Alan corrected him.

The rest of what you say is absolutely right. Wilkins is a sports commentator for various sports and not really a tennis guy. I am certain Vijay tells him what to say a lot since I have heard them whispering to one another for many years.

Everyone is not so obsessed with stats and rankings as we chaps are :)
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
powered by some mysterious Mallorcan spinach

Just like the rest of Spanish sports.
I don't think that line was a reference to any kind of banned substance. Author prolly trying to be witty or flashy with words.

I too found the article a bit heavy to wade through, tried twice and skipped a lot of portions. Move on.
 
1

15_ounce

Guest
The approaching ball hangs, for him, a split-second longer than it ought to...

It's because Roger doesn't have a long back swing preparation and his ridiculous racquet head speed compensate all those split seconds of waiting. His swing on the groundstroke is so brief and compact. He doesn't need to take a huge back swing because his racquet setup is a powerful one.
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
That is because it is not his job remember those sort of numbers (this is assuming what you say is true). Unlike Wilkins he is an expert on tennis strategy and actual match-play, having played the sport himself. Wilkins is a presenter and it's he who keeps a tab on the statistics and other generalities.
If you're ignorant atleast don't demonstrate it in such a grandiose fashion.

Assuming that Vijay did mess up (I have no idea since I didn't listen to the broadcast), then I somewhat disagree. While his main job is to talk about tennis strategy I would expect a sports commentator to be on top of information. Or at the very least stay away from statistics that they are not full sure of. I don't think it's a huge deal, I do think however that it is his job to be on top of the stats when you are being heard by millions of viewers who don't all have the time/inclination to re-check facts on the ATP website.

For the record I love V's commentary.
 

spiderman123

Professional
That is because it is not his job remember those sort of numbers (this is assuming what you say is true). Unlike Wilkins he is an expert on tennis strategy and actual match-play, having played the sport himself. Wilkins is a presenter and it's he who keeps a tab on the statistics and other generalities.
If you're ignorant atleast don't demonstrate it in such a grandiose fashion.

Also not to mention that it was inconceivable for someone who is holding three majors and gained from SF to F in the fourth one to lose his ranking to someone who is not holding any major and lost points from F to SF in that major.

What happened was a heist in a clinical fashion.
 

tusharlovesrafa

Hall of Fame
^^^ Checked this thread of late ?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=406212&page=5

Thought you had gone into hiding after what you poasted there was getting all the attention since the Wimbledon final.

OMG!!:).You still remember it.It was all said in jest.In a way,he only has 75 points lead over djokovic,which is pretty minimal and I don't expect it to last,so,fingers crossed,he might end up at No.2 after the Olympics.:)
 

spiderman123

Professional
OMG!!:).You still remember it.It was all said in jest.In a way,he only has 75 points lead over djokovic,which is pretty minimal and I don't expect it to last,so,fingers crossed,he might end up at No.2 after the Olympics.:)

So you care more about Federer getting down in rankings and not Nadal climbing up. You sure had me confused with that username.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
His racquet set-up doesn't "sacrifice power for feel" as the article says. His set-up is amongst the more powerful on tour.
 

tusharlovesrafa

Hall of Fame
So you care more about Federer getting down in rankings and not Nadal climbing up. You sure had me confused with that username.

C'mon dude,I am a Nadal fan and I want him to do well.But I don't think rankings matter much to him.For most of his carrier he has been ranked No.2,and he's won more slams ranked No.2 than NO.1.I just hope he does well going forward.
 

vkartikv

Hall of Fame
Having spent the last month home in India, I can tell you the quality of journalism has dropped significantly since the 80s and 90s.
 

Love all

Semi-Pro
I've heard Amritraj commentating and found him not praise worthy. He often makes silly errors while referring anything to players.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
OMG!!:).You still remember it.It was all said in jest.In a way,he only has 75 points lead over djokovic,which is pretty minimal and I don't expect it to last,so,fingers crossed,he might end up at No.2 after the Olympics.:)

Fingers crossed Nadal will lose early at USO as well.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
Firstly an apology is in order for name calling especially a poster I've always had great respect for.
I don't want to troll through and cast up your previous posts and hope that you would have some awareness of your bias when it comes to Federer.
Although he is the most remarkably gifted player with an armory of jaw dropping, un-coachable shots, admiration of his talent and increased success should not come at the expense of respect for other players which you have displayed a lack of recently.
I see a correlation between a rise in Federer's game to a lowering in the quality of your posts and increased arrogance, a trap many other posters fall into which I thought you were above and, as a self confessed JustBob forum fan, I find this disappointing and felt the need to bring this to your attention.
A tennis fan should always try to recognise and respect the talents and efforts of other players not just the one who's idolised.
Thanks for listening.

Well thanks for the analysis of my posting history... Not that I have to justify myself to you but:

- It's not players I make fun of, it's the silly most rabid fans. Players are merely a proxy. And although I prefer Federer's style of play, I've often stated that despite the banter and teasing, Nadal for example, has many traits which I admire. I don't hate or dislike any player.

- I also realized that if you don't join in the fun and the silliness there's really no point in being here because the "serious" posts are often completely ignored, and the intelligent discussions are few and far between. So you have to be able to make the difference between what's serious and what's not. And I'm not on some mission to educate people on the finer points of tennis...

- I won't deny the bouts of arrogance. I'm well known for it on a political forum which is 90% American. They came to respect the fact that I can be as arrogant as they are. ;)

- Apologize? Sorry, but unless I know to whom and for what, forget it.

FYI, in the future, if you have issues about what I post and want to bring something to my attention, state your objections after the posts in questions, don't attack me out of the blue in some random thread which I might not even read or post in...
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
^^^ Checked this thread of late ?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=406212&page=5

Thought you had gone into hiding after what you poasted there was getting all the attention since the Wimbledon final.
LMAO, hey, guys, all of you, when you quote a post, try putting the link of the actual post (copy from right top of post). Or at least mention the actual post number.

This is because some of us access the site using "Latest post first" option, or whatever the name is. This makes it very difficult to find a post when you only mention page number. This time i found it easily since it was a short thread.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
The ToI article also called Vijay Amritraj the best and most informed tennis commentator. #Fail

Amritraj knows more about Hollywood and British Royalty than tennis.

Example: Before the Nole vs. Rog SF coverage, he claimed that Fed won't get to #1 even if he won Wimbledon, this even after Alan Wilkins had stated the ranking scenario correctly.

Agreed. Even in the final, contrary to what the article said, Vijay was getting more excited on points that Murray won. It seemed to me he badly wanted his prediction to come true
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
That is because it is not his job remember those sort of numbers (this is assuming what you say is true). Unlike Wilkins he is an expert on tennis strategy and actual match-play, having played the sport himself. Wilkins is a presenter and it's he who keeps a tab on the statistics and other generalities.
If you're ignorant atleast don't demonstrate it in such a grandiose fashion.

So if his job is not to remember those numbers, why is he commenting on them.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
Also not to mention that it was inconceivable for someone who is holding three majors and gained from SF to F in the fourth one to lose his ranking to someone who is not holding any major and lost points from F to SF in that major.

What happened was a heist in a clinical fashion.

When Wimbledon draw was announced, it was clearly reported in many papers, that if:

Fed wins Wimbledon, he would be number 1 --- (it would automatically mean Djoker losing in SF)

If Nadal wins Wimbledon and Djoker lost before Semis, Nadal would be no. 1.

Vijay should have known it.
 

Fedex

Legend
Firstly an apology is in order for name calling especially a poster I've always had great respect for.

The poster being yourself.

Well thanks for the analysis of my posting history... Not that I have to justify myself to you but:

- It's not players I make fun of, it's the silly most rabid fans. Players are merely a proxy. And although I prefer Federer's style of play, I've often stated that despite the banter and teasing, Nadal for example, has many traits which I admire. I don't hate or dislike any player.

- I also realized that if you don't join in the fun and the silliness there's really no point in being here because the "serious" posts are often completely ignored, and the intelligent discussions are few and far between. So you have to be able to make the difference between what's serious and what's not. And I'm not on some mission to educate people on the finer points of tennis...

- I won't deny the bouts of arrogance. I'm well known for it on a political forum which is 90% American. They came to respect the fact that I can be as arrogant as they are. ;)

- Apologize? Sorry, but unless I know to whom and for what, forget it.

FYI, in the future, if you have issues about what I post and want to bring something to my attention, state your objections after the posts in questions, don't attack me out of the blue in some random thread which I might not even read or post in...

I was apologising to you.
Geez even apologies get lost in translation.

Edit: And point taken about your last sentence.
 
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JustBob

Hall of Fame
The poster being yourself.

I was apologising to you.
Geez even apologies get lost in translation.

Edit: And point taken about your last sentence.

Now it's my turn to apologize. I thought you wanted me to apologize to some other poster you respected and I had somehow offended in the past. lolll

No harm done really. I think it's sometimes too easy to get carried away on this forum and perhaps, at times, not realize it. In retrospect, your earlier point is well taken as well.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
As for the article at the beginning of this thread, the writer has a point. Federer is kind of a "throwback" and it's perhaps easier to appreciate his style if you're a bit older and have seen a few generations of players. However, the traits that Nadal exhibits at first glance, the power, strength, athleticism, are almost "gladiator like". You notice them right away, and it's something that might be more appealing to the casual tennis fan. I think it takes a more thorough understanding of tennis in order to appreciate the nuances of Federer's style of play. That's not to say that you can't know a lot about tennis and prefer Nadal over Federer of course, but I believe the point is valid nonetheless. To use a film analogy, Nadal is more like a great summer blockbuster, while Federer is more like an arthouse film.
 

Emet74

Professional
However, the traits that Nadal exhibits at first glance, the power, strength, athleticism, are almost "gladiator like". You notice them right away, and it's something that might be more appealing to the casual tennis fan. I think it takes a more thorough understanding of tennis in order to appreciate the nuances of Federer's style of play. That's not to say that you can't know a lot about tennis and prefer Nadal over Federer of course, but I believe the point is valid nonetheless. To use a film analogy, Nadal is more like a great summer blockbuster, while Federer is more like an arthouse film.

I think that Fed's physical grace is nearly as apparant at a first viewing as Nadal's "gladiatorial qualities" - it's probably just a question of people's aesthetic preferences. But I've heard plenty of tales of people who'd never watched a tennis match before stumbling upon Federer and being mesmerized by his movement (and if they're women, the famous shiny Fed hair, lol)
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
As for the article at the beginning of this thread, the writer has a point. Federer is kind of a "throwback" and it's perhaps easier to appreciate his style if you're a bit older and have seen a few generations of players. However, the traits that Nadal exhibits at first glance, the power, strength, athleticism, are almost "gladiator like". You notice them right away, and it's something that might be more appealing to the casual tennis fan. I think it takes a more thorough understanding of tennis in order to appreciate the nuances of Federer's style of play. That's not to say that you can't know a lot about tennis and prefer Nadal over Federer of course, but I believe the point is valid nonetheless. To use a film analogy, Nadal is more like a great summer blockbuster, while Federer is more like an arthouse film.

If that analogy were true then you would expect Fed to have a relatively small fan base rather than the largest fan base of all players.

A better analogy would be that Fed is like a Beatles song while Nadal is like Techno. Most people are neutral or positive towards the Beatles while Techno is more polarizing.
 
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